Guild Wars 2

Will we get some love someday ?

Everytime I discover something on my Guardian, I also learn that warriors have the tuned up equivalent.

Just FYI, I have 350 hours on my Guardian which is my most loved character so far. However, the more I play, the more I feel cast in the shadows of warriors.

There’s just so many things. We get a petty burn every 5 auto-attacks, most of their attacks bleed every auto-attacks. They have 8K more base hp than us, I heal for 8K with my strongest heal. We got a “unique” health-regen, they can equip a signet for that. They have a 3 second block on their shield, we get a 4 second “hey have a free walk into my blue dome”. Oh and we can be invulnerable for 3 seconds and regen what would have been : A few seconds burn, a 2-3k heal, one block, while doing nothing. They can be invulnerable for 5 seconds AND STILL DO WHAT THEY WANT.

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree that guardian is perfect for PvE. But for PvP, & WvW I just feel like a watered down Warrior. I will never understand why we have so little hp (I’ve heard it’s because of our heals. Warriors have our heal integrated in their base HP ! They can also get a regen !). I was finnaly starting to feel useful with a semi-tanky hammer build, and then I just met a warrior using a similar build who could just own so much more than me because his F1 actually did something and he had 8K more hp than me, not counting heals.

It’s just… I’m really getting kittened out. That’s around 300 hours of seeing warriors being tuned up guardians building up in my rage-room spilling out right now.

And before the “roll a warrior”, it’s a already done. But I don’t like the class. It’s just free, nearly overpowered damage and brutality. I don’t want that. I just want a guardian with either more hp and heals, or just decent virtues (using F2 signs your death, using F1 in 1v1 is useless, using F3 is actually useful. Great).

It’s just a random rant, but I couldn’t stand it anymore.

try using mace/focus , scepter/ shield tanky build, no one can touch you in 1 vs 1 except maybe shatter mesmers.

Guardian is much stronger than Warrior in many ways. Both classes are at the top of the food chain so I don’t think we have any room for complaint in terms of power and usefulness, even if you do find Warriors better (really, they aren’t).

Guardians will never get a main buff like more regen or hp, because according to anet that’s making guardians OP. Since the beginning they have nerfed us and gave us mediocre at best buffs, to staff lol. Just reroll a warrior and save yourself the hassle, I predict even more nerfs in the next upcoming patch.

Why do you think they keep nerfing us and buffing warriors? Its because we are awesome. On paper it looks like the warrior gets lits of nice things but they lack build synergy that makes Guardians far stronger.

It takes more skill to play a guardian and if you play it well, you will never lose to a warrior.warriors are actually considered a lower tier class by the pro’s. Guardian is floating near the top.

I’m sorry but you don’t seem to have a complete grasp of the Guardian class if you think we are just a water down warrior. A warrior’s superior innate defenses in no way compare to a guardian’s active defenses when played by a skillful player. Personally, one of my favorite classes to fight in PVP is a warrior, because they don’t have nearly the survivability and escapes of some of the other classes. If a warrior engages they are pretty much stuck in a fight to the death, which if you can avoid their burst, means it will be theirs.

KensaiZen.3740:

Why do you think they keep nerfing us and buffing warriors? Its because we are awesome. On paper it looks like the warrior gets lits of nice things but they lack build synergy that makes Guardians far stronger.

It takes more skill to play a guardian and if you play it well, you will never lose to a warrior.warriors are actually considered a lower tier class by the pro’s. Guardian is floating near the top.

Because its blatant class favoritism. Warrior was designed for its high dps, but has the ability to be more tanky than a guardian and pretty much heal just as much as we do given that they trait and gear for it, just as we have too.
Every sPvP guardian will run a cookie cutter AH hammer/staff build and just hold a point, it takes no skill.

Indure.5410:

I’m sorry but you don’t seem to have a complete grasp of the Guardian class if you think we are just a water down warrior. A warrior’s superior innate defenses in no way compare to a guardian’s active defenses when played by a skillful player. Personally, one of my favorite classes to fight in PVP is a warrior, because they don’t have nearly the survivability and escapes of some of the other classes. If a warrior engages they are pretty much stuck in a fight to the death, which if you can avoid their burst, means it will be theirs.

Um, warriors has plenty of defenses. Shield, Enduring Pain, Sword for mobility, Warhorn for mobility, Rush (although the animation glitchs a lot). As for dodging their burst thats just a silly argument, because u can dodge a guardians burst/dps just as easily lol. All the while your busy dodging a warriors hundred blades for example, he can just pull out of the fight, pull out rifle and range you to death.

@Archer

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

OP, you are one of the players that keep getting obliterated in the various youtube glory videos out there.

I don’t even know where to start.

If by telling you that glass cannon got higher surviveability than any warrior.
Or by telling you that we can literally make every dungeon wipe-or-swipe.
Or by how we can completely push a whole zergs with shields, crowd control, and teleport sudden AoE spam combined with all the above.

Warrior? what can he do? High burst of DPS and…….? (I play on my warrior every day, this isn’t from Guardian only point of view)

Jay.3284:

@Archer

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

So your plan is to continue healing while doing minimal damage? While your opponent can heal too, and dish out more damage. That makes sense. Oh I have 2 lvl 80 Guardians and a lvl 80 Warrior. In addition I have over 1000 hours played between my 2 guardians and have theory crafted every build possible. A good warrior will beat a good guardian 9 times out of 10. You have to spec into retaliation uptime, and if you plan on playing the boring “retaliation bunker” then I would say go ahead for boring gameplay.

Archer.1658:

Jay.3284:

@Archer

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

So your plan is to continue healing while doing minimal damage? While your opponent can heal too, and dish out more damage. That makes sense. Oh I have 2 lvl 80 Guardians and a lvl 80 Warrior. In addition I have over 1000 hours played between my 2 guardians and have theory crafted every build possible. A good warrior will beat a good guardian 9 times out of 10. You have to spec into retaliation uptime, and if you plan on playing the boring “retaliation bunker” then I would say go ahead for boring gameplay.

2 immobilize, WoR if needed and you’re smoked. Immobilize break? dance around / inside my circle and eat my dps while you turn into a pinball.

Archer.1658:

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

So your plan is to continue healing while doing minimal damage? While your opponent can heal too, and dish out more damage. That makes sense. Oh I have 2 lvl 80 Guardians and a lvl 80 Warrior. In addition I have over 1000 hours played between my 2 guardians and have theory crafted every build possible. A good warrior will beat a good guardian 9 times out of 10. You have to spec into retaliation uptime, and if you plan on playing the boring “retaliation bunker” then I would say go ahead for boring gameplay.
[/quote]

i don’t follow… cleric guards have awful DPS even compared to the awful DPS of guards in general.

and in PVE warrs don’t even need the defense since they just melt everything. geting mobbed? that’s np, just use 100b and everything in front of you dies. a guard doesn’t even have half the DPS. i’d rather be able to hit a 16k 100b and not have aegis/f2 than have them and hit a 6-7k WW if i’m lucky.

Glad someone agrees that warriors only good for DPS on mobs.

So what are we arguing about?
Or anyone here claims that Guards got better DPS? beacause that is false, but DPS is far from everything you need in this game, unless you only do world PvE.

Firegoth.6427:

vespers.1759:

Jay.3284:

Archer.1658:

Jay.3284:

@Archer

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

So your plan is to continue healing while doing minimal damage? While your opponent can heal too, and dish out more damage. That makes sense. Oh I have 2 lvl 80 Guardians and a lvl 80 Warrior. In addition I have over 1000 hours played between my 2 guardians and have theory crafted every build possible. A good warrior will beat a good guardian 9 times out of 10. You have to spec into retaliation uptime, and if you plan on playing the boring “retaliation bunker” then I would say go ahead for boring gameplay.

You’re hopeless and probably a troll.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-PvE-The-Healway-Guardian/first

Putting this right here.

i don’t follow… cleric guards have awful DPS even compared to the awful DPS of guards in general.

and in PVE warrs don’t even need the defense since they just melt everything. geting mobbed? that’s np, just use 100b and everything in front of you dies. a guard doesn’t even have half the DPS. i’d rather be able to hit a 16k 100b and not have aegis/f2 than have them and hit a 6-7k WW if i’m lucky.

Glad someone agrees that warriors only good for DPS on mobs.

So what are we arguing about?
Or anyone here claims that Guards got better DPS? beacause that is false, but DPS is far from everything you need in this game, unless you only do world PvE.

but the thing is you don’t even need the defense. guards can mitigate a few attacks, but are useless vs sustained attacks or multiple enemies. aegis is good for blocking the occaisional incoming big hit or taking slightly less dmg etc… but a party with a few dps warriors doesn’t need to worry about defense because they kill everything before they need to worry.

guards have some useful skills in certain situations but in most dungeons a warrior is better. i see warriors going around 1 shotting the acolytes in CoF path 1. it’s a joke to survive when all you need to do is whirldwind into the acolyte and it dies. or in AC they pull a bunch of breeders and then just 100b them down.

vespers.1759:

i don’t follow… cleric guards have awful DPS even compared to the awful DPS of guards in general.

and in PVE warrs don’t even need the defense since they just melt everything. geting mobbed? that’s np, just use 100b and everything in front of you dies. a guard doesn’t even have half the DPS. i’d rather be able to hit a 16k 100b and not have aegis/f2 than have them and hit a 6-7k WW if i’m lucky.

If you are talking straight PvE, then yes, cleric guards are lacking, pvp/WvW however, that build will destroy a warrior. Warriors are all 1 trick ponies for the most part, dodge whatever skill the use when they pop quickness (100b, killshot, whatever else they might use) and they are pretty much open to whatever you dish at them. Also comparing 100b to WW is a joke, 100b roots you, and only hits mobs infront of you, WW lets you move, hits mobs in a 360 radius around you and shoots projectiles (although random). In something like pvp/wvw this is a huge difference as you are more likely to land the hits of WW on more targets than you are on 100b.

Also, if you really want to talk about burst try a GS / Sword+focus build with full zerkers (which it would take to get those damage numbers on 100b) activate focus #5,then switch weapons, then WW + Judges intervention into someone and let me know what the total damage is from WW and the explosion. (hint: it will be pretty freaking close to that 100b which normally uses the same amount of skills to set up)

Bakitten291:

vespers.1759:

i don’t follow… cleric guards have awful DPS even compared to the awful DPS of guards in general.

and in PVE warrs don’t even need the defense since they just melt everything. geting mobbed? that’s np, just use 100b and everything in front of you dies. a guard doesn’t even have half the DPS. i’d rather be able to hit a 16k 100b and not have aegis/f2 than have them and hit a 6-7k WW if i’m lucky.

If you are talking straight PvE, then yes, cleric guards are lacking, pvp/WvW however, that build will destroy a warrior. Warriors are all 1 trick ponies for the most part, dodge whatever skill the use when they pop quickness (100b, killshot, whatever else they might use) and they are pretty much open to whatever you dish at them. Also comparing 100b to WW is a joke, 100b roots you, and only hits mobs infront of you, WW lets you move, hits mobs in a 360 radius around you and shoots projectiles (although random). In something like pvp/wvw this is a huge difference as you are more likely to land the hits of WW on more targets than you are on 100b.

Also, if you really want to talk about burst try a GS / Sword+focus build with full zerkers (which it would take to get those damage numbers on 100b) activate focus #5,then switch weapons, then WW + Judges intervention into someone and let me know what the total damage is from WW and the explosion. (hint: it will be pretty freaking close to that 100b which normally uses the same amount of skills to set up)

i never once mentioned wvwvw in my post.

The problem is one of burst damage versus sustained damage. In short duration fights, burst damage will always win. Guardians have to work harder to get burst damage going than warriors do. Guardians do fine sustained damage over time, but the only occasion in which that matters is against large health pool enemies like bosses in PvE. In WvW, burst is king. Dead players deal no damage. Heartseeker thieves, rifle warriors, and so on have burst in spades, and they do quite well as Youtube will be able to attest. Rarely do you see burst Guardians do anything particularly noteworthy.

So: The shorter the fight, the more important burst becomes. Guardians are fair to poor in that regard. That’s not to say that Guardians are a bad class or poorly balanced or anything like that. But it’s something you have to deal with. It’s part of what makes Guardians such rocks in PvE. They do fine damage, it’s just spread out over time. Add to that the innate tankiness and you’ve got yourself a solid platform. It just doesn’t have the omg big numbers behind it.

vespers.1759:

i never once mentioned wvwvw in my post.

Tysefol.2017:

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree that guardian is perfect for PvE. But for PvP, & WvW I just feel like a watered down Warrior.

Pretty sure this topic was a PvP/WvW issue, not a PvE one, Regardless, Guardians bring SO much more in line of group support without having to give up much damage in PvE. Almost 100% protection up time with the hammer, massive amounts of boon hand outs for the party, through shouts, EM, Staff, etc. Pretty good condition removal from traited shouts, traited resolve, purging flames. All of which we are far better than warriors at doing, and most of these things are done while still doing damage.

Bakitten291:

vespers.1759:

i never once mentioned wvwvw in my post.

Tysefol.2017:

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree that guardian is perfect for PvE. But for PvP, & WvW I just feel like a watered down Warrior.

Pretty sure this topic was a PvP/WvW issue, not a PvE one, Regardless, Guardians bring SO much more in line of group support without having to give up much damage in PvE. Almost 100% protection up time with the hammer, massive amounts of boon hand outs for the party, through shouts, EM, Staff, etc. Pretty good condition removal from traited shouts, traited resolve, purging flames. All of which we are far better than warriors at doing, and most of these things are done while still doing damage.

This is true yes. Also, don’t forget that Guardian’s have spirit weapons which are up to two extra sources of damage.

Aza.2105:

This is true yes. Also, don’t forget that Guardian’s have spirit weapons which are up to two extra sources of damage.

Always forget those things exist, normally I only WvW so they are never on my bar thanks to the poor AI in group fights. Dang things never attack the target i want to. Must be pretty decent in PvE stuff though.

vespers.1759:

Firegoth.6427:

vespers.1759:

Jay.3284:

Archer.1658:

Jay.3284:

@Archer

Warrior’s have defenses that last seconds. Guardians have plenty more defenses tribute, the class that can provide protection the easiest, also many regeneration utilities, and not to mention 5 in honour grants vigour on critical hits.

Also if you’re trying to burst as a guardian you’re doing it wrong. Guardians are EXCELLENT are sustained DPS, and outlasting their opponents (Look at how many retaliation up-time they have).

Go play a Warrior and truly experience the class before you theory-craft. It will really help broaden your view on the “favorite” class of Anet

So your plan is to continue healing while doing minimal damage? While your opponent can heal too, and dish out more damage. That makes sense. Oh I have 2 lvl 80 Guardians and a lvl 80 Warrior. In addition I have over 1000 hours played between my 2 guardians and have theory crafted every build possible. A good warrior will beat a good guardian 9 times out of 10. You have to spec into retaliation uptime, and if you plan on playing the boring “retaliation bunker” then I would say go ahead for boring gameplay.

You’re hopeless and probably a troll.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-PvE-The-Healway-Guardian/first

Putting this right here.

i don’t follow… cleric guards have awful DPS even compared to the awful DPS of guards in general.

and in PVE warrs don’t even need the defense since they just melt everything. geting mobbed? that’s np, just use 100b and everything in front of you dies. a guard doesn’t even have half the DPS. i’d rather be able to hit a 16k 100b and not have aegis/f2 than have them and hit a 6-7k WW if i’m lucky.

Glad someone agrees that warriors only good for DPS on mobs.

So what are we arguing about?
Or anyone here claims that Guards got better DPS? beacause that is false, but DPS is far from everything you need in this game, unless you only do world PvE.

but the thing is you don’t even need the defense. guards can mitigate a few attacks, but are useless vs sustained attacks or multiple enemies. aegis is good for blocking the occaisional incoming big hit or taking slightly less dmg etc… but a party with a few dps warriors doesn’t need to worry about defense because they kill everything before they need to worry.

guards have some useful skills in certain situations but in most dungeons a warrior is better. i see warriors going around 1 shotting the acolytes in CoF path 1. it’s a joke to survive when all you need to do is whirldwind into the acolyte and it dies. or in AC they pull a bunch of breeders and then just 100b them down.

Some points:
- 100 blades is limited to 3 enemies, when mobbed you better gtfo unless you’re on quickness + endure.
- Forget defense for a moment, think about the group:
Hammer provides small AoE protection to the rest of the melee members
- Shields reduce 100% of incoming damage to the whole team.
- Often blast finishers.
- Give might constantly to your whole team.
- Reliable condition removal to the whole team. (Torch mainly, complimented by “Save yourselves” and Purging flames)
- AoE pull, good against those pesky ranged mobs, instead of making the team take them out 1 by 1.
- As warrior, after you blow your first heal, you’re screwed until its cool down since endure pain, even traited is not enough to keep you alive.

Now, I’m not saying warrior is useless because I’d love to run a group with 4 warriors and 1 Guardian, but in terms of team player, Guardian takes the gold medal.

I did see however, many Guardians who consider themselves support only because they could heal everyone for 1k hp every 10 seconds, which was pathetic, lame, and a waste of a party slot.

if i had a nickel for everytime someone was in my hammer symbol i’d have a nickel. realistically the most you’ll be able to get is yourself or another. chances increase slightly if you roll with the larger symbols but there’s better stuff to take imo.

i have also seen about 3 guardians run with a torch, and one of them was me when i decided to try it. it does have nice DPS, but i think there’s better options.

now i’m not saying guardian is bad, but i feel like the slight extra defense in a DPS build doesn’t make up for the minor dmg compared to what a warrior dps can do.

going full tank gives you rather a lot of defense, but takes your DPS down to something that’s utterly useless for anything outside of wvwvw.

Guardians cant handle multiple mobs? Guardians suck in WvW? Whoever thinks that is crazy. The only type of guardians that suck in WvW is pure support guardians. Why? Because they are 1 trick ponies like warriors.

Do you want to know why warriors are so bad? Because burst damage doesnt mean anything if it doesnt hit. Warriors high burst skill will only hit noobs who dont use dodge or stun breakers.

Good luck to those who would rather play warriors in WvW over guardian. I will just keep adding your badges to my collection.

I have even face tanked warriors in WvW. Guardian will always come up on top if you know how to play.

KensaiZen.3740:

I have even face tanked warriors in WvW. Guardian will always come up on top if you know how to play.

people say this for every class. who’s right? i guess we’ll never know.

Vesper you seemed to ignore half my post (edit: and ignored most of KensaiZen’s as well), and pretty much set hard on warrior’s DPS.
Also not sure why you said being a tank in WvW is good for Guardian? maybe elaborate a bit on that.

Along with how Guardians can’t handle a zerg of mobs?

Are we playing the same class?

All your arguments are situational. They all require certain situations and a group to effectively pull them off. You will heal less without a party with AH, so consider that out of the bag. The healway guardian is a nice support build, but again no DPS, therefore you’re just stuck soaking damage, might as well play a retaliation build and just afk. You will not beat a good warrior 1v1. Fact. Oh I forgot to add, good players usually dodge other classes moves too, you act like dodging a guardian is hard, it’s incredibly easy.

Archer.1658:

All your arguments are situational. They all require certain situations and a group to effectively pull them off. You will heal less without a party with AH, so consider that out of the bag. The healway guardian is a nice support build, but again no DPS, therefore you’re just stuck soaking damage, might as well play a retaliation build and just afk. You will not beat a good warrior 1v1. Fact. Oh I forgot to add, good players usually dodge other classes moves too, you act like dodging a guardian is hard, it’s incredibly easy.

Generally don’t lose to warriors myself. The good ones are just much closer fights than the bad ones. And the difference between dodging a guardian and dodging a warrior is that most of their damage comes from 1-2 skills, where as ours is more sustained. There is no “this class will always beat this class, fact” in this game. Warriors are good in some areas, Guardians in others, however a good player is going to always beat a bad one regardless, and good vs good is always going to be a close match.

Bakitten291:

Archer.1658:

All your arguments are situational. They all require certain situations and a group to effectively pull them off. You will heal less without a party with AH, so consider that out of the bag. The healway guardian is a nice support build, but again no DPS, therefore you’re just stuck soaking damage, might as well play a retaliation build and just afk. You will not beat a good warrior 1v1. Fact. Oh I forgot to add, good players usually dodge other classes moves too, you act like dodging a guardian is hard, it’s incredibly easy.

Generally don’t lose to warriors myself. The good ones are just much closer fights than the bad ones. And the difference between dodging a guardian and dodging a warrior is that most of their damage comes from 1-2 skills, where as ours is more sustained. There is no “this class will always beat this class, fact” in this game. Warriors are good in some areas, Guardians in others, however a good player is going to always beat a bad one regardless, and good vs good is always going to be a close match.

Ok lets break it down. I’ll use the AH Hammer/Staff Guardian as example 1.

Hammer:
1. Auto Attack ~ Symbol of Protection – Very slow move, you will not pull this off and have the player stand it in, symbols are incredibly situational. Otherwise its decent damage for an auto attack up until the casting of SoP
2. Mighty Blow ~ Good damage, good cooldown, easy to see coming though, good for blast combo.
3. Zealots Embrace ~ Bad immoblize animation, misses a lot, “meh” damage, but ranged. which is nice.
4. Bash ~ Good all Around
5. Ring of Warding ~ Bad, you can dodge, stability, leap, teleport and sometimes walk out of it

So..total you have 1 good “DPS” move here but on a short cooldown.

Staff: Not a damage weapon, but has some range (used for sieging past gate usually), just empower when you can for heal, might stacks.

Screwed here.

Warrior using Greatsword + Axe/Shield with Enduring Pain, Bulls Rush, Frenzy (No heal shouts or banners etc)
Greatsword:
1. Auto Attack ~ Meh
2. Hundred Blades ~ One of the best burst moves if it lands, not hard to land if immoblize/stun is placed and timed. Short cooldown and even shorter if traited. Again main argument is that its easy to dodge.
3. Whirlwind attack ~ good burst as well, much harder to dodge, but still argued to be easily dodged.(also can be traited to remove immoblize) Moblity here too.
4. Bladetrail – Decent overall.
5. Rush ~ Mobility, but again bad animation

2-3 good moves here, depending if they “LAND” (because you can dodge so many times ofc)

Axe/Shield Combo:
1.Eviserate ~ Good Burst
2.Auto Attack ~ Good
3.Cyclone Axe ~ Meh
4.Throw Axe ~ Cripple
5. Shield Bash ~ Stun, Very good for getting the eviserate in.
6. Shield Stance ~ Blocks, Very good.

Overall, amazing combo.

Lots of good stuff here. This is just the breakdown of the weapon skills. So the so called guardian sustained damage is coming from where? The retaliation? Where as the warriors have plenty of options for doing the necessary damage to keep you low and eventually you will die because you can’t kill him.

Note: The above situation is just a breakdown of a 1v1 in terms of attacking skills.

Honestly, everyone in the guardian forum makes them out to be “immortal” or can “out heal” all damage. This is not true, you will die eventually, and you will have died in vain doing little to no damage. The warrior can always be on attack, and use their heal. Guardian using their healing options have to stop (empowering might, you will probably take more damage than heal). And I’ll agree you can’t measure player skill vs skill accurately so it will be close.

So you use Hammer and Staff and compare it to Greatsword and Axe/shield.

Ignorance is bliss.

Jay.3284:

So you use Hammer and Staff and compare it to Greatsword and Axe/shield.

Ignorance is bliss.

Im using what the majority of builds run. 90% of the AH guardian you see run Hammer/Staff and 90% of the Warriors you will see run Greatsword + Axe/Shield. This is the situation that you would run into should you be that guardian vs this warrior. Keep arguing though, I like ur strawman arguments a lot.

Archer speaks the truth. You will NEVER utilize your symbols as much as you think you do unless you’re playing PvE. This throws hammer out almost completely as a viable weapon in WvW. This could also be argued with the GS, no one will stand in it for more than a millisecond. Take a look at both of these weapons.

GS: WW is excellent for all around damage. LoF is unreliable at best with mediocre dmg. Binding Blade has a very noticeable telegraph making it easy to dodge, SoW speaks for itself.

Hammer: Symbol of protection is negligible since your targets will always be moving. Mighty Blow is also a very easy skill to dodge that does decent damage. Banish is a terrible skill that can easily be dodged, same with Zealots Embrace. RoF has too long of a cast time making it easy to avoid.

Combining both weapons leaves you with one option for the Hammer and two for the GS that will actually make a difference. Remember guys, this game is about movement, not about standing in ones AoE’s. You want permanent protection? Play PvE where the mobs stand still. This will NEVER work in WvW or spvp.

Here’s more, you have a shield that can give a cone protection and AoE KB. Problem here is they’re both on long cool downs and provide small effects. Shield of Judgement has been reduced to provide 3 seconds of protection on a 30 second cool down, Shield of absorption on a 40 and enemies can still enter. I’d rather have shield stance keeping myself alive from both melee and ranged.

I love my Guardian but the only real reason we stay alive in large-scale combat is the staff. Empower+AH keeps us alive and provides valuable boons to our allies. We cannot go into a group of mobs and do amazing burst damage because we will drop relatively fast. Sustainable damage is nice, but this game is all about burst. Retaliation will not save you when you’re getting hit for 6k and dealing back 300.

I’d love to see more mobility options for this profession. Not a fan of symbols at all, this encourages static and dull game play while making it ineffective in pvp.

Lets forget that a good amount of guardians do run Sword/Focus Meditation builds, and Hammer or Greatsword are great Utility weapons when used right.

WoR too slow? Who doesn’t use it without JI nowadays?

I also miss those 8k health warrior has, specially in Zerg Vs Zerg

Archer.1658:

worthless banter of hammer/staff vs GS warrior

Ok seriously, if you are going to argue against me, at least look at my build THAT IS RIGHT IN MY SIG. Sword + focus / scepter+ torch

Sword:
Auto attack: fast, hits for a good amount
Flashing blade: semi week but instant gap closer, blind, and speced to add vuln
Zealots Defense: good burst damage, roots you, but almost always opened with JI to promise hits

focus:
Ray of judgement: 2x blinds from bounce, 2x regen duration from bounce, 6 total stacks of vulnerability, AND some damage (about 1.6k normally when crits)
Shield of wrath: 3 blocks, each block give me might when speced for it, if not used explodes for 5k+ damage crits Also can be used at any time (excluding dazed)

Scpeter:
Auto attack: Wonky at range, but mostly use in melee for my build
Smite: somewhat decent, can be hard to land, but always paired with #3 when opening to promise hits
Chains of light: 900 range immobilize and vulnerability, no problems here

Torch:
Zealots flame: Small AoE burn, with a secondary ability to do very good damage and add a decent length burn at range
Cleansing Flame: Multi hit cone AoE, decent damage.

Also keep in mind that my build is a partial burn build, so every second you have burning thats 500+ damage ticking away, Meditation spec’d healing gives me 1800 heals on every utility use, Shelter as my heal gives me a might stack every time I block (and yes, i will absorb a 100b with it and throw those might stacks back in your face.)

So how about next time you try to argue you use the actual build of the person you are quoting, not some cookie cutter build that you “think” everyone uses.

I think I’m with the OP on this one, I love Guardian to death but I’m starting to feel a little lacking compared to the ol’ Warrior, especially considering a bunch of our weapons seem really lackluster. If you ask me, torch, sword, scepter and maybe shield are crying out for a rework. That leaves greatsword, mace, hammer, staff and focus as the only weapons really worth using if you ask me (excluding underwater, they’re generally ok though). Someone mentioned earlier that Warriors have bad trait synergy or something, are you serious?! From a Guardian perspective, looking at other profession’s traits makes me jealous of how well they work together! Compare Zeal to Strength… it makes me cry a little inside…

I would say, however, that the biggest problem for me is that a lot of Guardian skills just aren’t as fun for me. I think it’s a lack of combo finisher options, if I don’t want to use greatsword, hammer or focus, there’s NO other land based finishers. The other kind of sad thing is, why would you not want to use greatsword, hammer or focus? They’re most of the best working weapons.
I think also, as a class that’s designed to be better at melee than ranged, we should have much better options for maintaining melee range than we currently do. Specifically cripple. Look at Warrior, another class that is designed around melee damage (however their ranged damage is also LEAGUES ahead of Guardian as well but that’s another thread) and they have a cripple and/or immobilise on almost every weapon. Before you say, “Yeah but we have X amount of control skills!”, so do Warriors!

I really want to use sword on my Guardian… I just can’t, it just doesn’t work. Looking at Warrior’s sword makes me jealous… bleeds everywhere, gap closer that’s a leap finisher, good damage, cripple, immobilise…. and that’s without an offhand. I know they’re supposed to play differently and all that but throw us a bone here!

Ah well, I’m holding on to hope that the next few patches will include some good fixes for Guardian.

I think I’m with the OP on this one, I love Guardian to death but I’m starting to feel a little lacking compared to the ol’ Warrior, especially considering a bunch of our weapons seem really lackluster. If you ask me, torch, sword, scepter and maybe shield are crying out for a rework. That leaves greatsword, mace, hammer, staff and focus as the only weapons really worth using if you ask me (excluding underwater, they’re generally ok though). Someone mentioned earlier that Warriors have bad trait synergy or something, are you serious?! From a Guardian perspective, looking at other profession’s traits makes me jealous of how well they work together! Compare Zeal to Strength… it makes me cry a little inside…

I would say, however, that the biggest problem for me is that a lot of Guardian skills just aren’t as fun for me. I think it’s a lack of combo finisher options, if I don’t want to use greatsword, hammer or focus, there’s NO other land based finishers. The other kind of sad thing is, why would you not want to use greatsword, hammer or focus? They’re most of the best working weapons.
I think also, as a class that’s designed to be better at melee than ranged, we should have much better options for maintaining melee range than we currently do. Specifically cripple. Look at Warrior, another class that is designed around melee damage (however their ranged damage is also LEAGUES ahead of Guardian as well but that’s another thread) and they have a cripple and/or immobilise on almost every weapon. Before you say, “Yeah but we have X amount of control skills!”, so do Warriors!

I really want to use sword on my Guardian… I just can’t, it just doesn’t work. Looking at Warrior’s sword makes me jealous… bleeds everywhere, gap closer that’s a leap finisher, good damage, cripple, immobilise…. and that’s without an offhand. I know they’re supposed to play differently and all that but throw us a bone here!

Ah well, I’m holding on to hope that the next few patches will include some good fixes for Guardian. [/quote]

My thoughts explained in a better manner (I had wrote my post just after a good Warrior session, which made me sad of my Guardian’s state even more)

That’s one point I didn’t develop : ranged. It’s like have none. Staff is GREAT for PvE, don’t get me wrong, but come on, the scepter ? It has 500 range versus moving targets…

It is true that warriors have a greater ease at keeping targets close… Cripple, stuns… Their shield set is just great for tanking, much better than Guardian. It does feel epic to absorb catapult rocks, don’t get me wrong, but when there’s just people comming in your bubble to murder you, you can just feel sad. Knowing that warriors CAN move while blocking.

Sorry but warriors are free kills in a fair’n square 1vs1. It does not matter if the person is rank 3 or rank 48.

the fun part about htis thread is that warriors look at guardians with envy.
just follow their forums and you will find out that a lot would trade some (ofc not all) of their damage for the usefulness of a guardian.

…..

There’s just so many things. We get a petty burn every 5 auto-attacks, most of their attacks bleed every auto-attacks.

>> as only in sword + rifle (ignoring underwater) by the way warrors consider condition builds as useless as guardians since bleed is so easily cured (especially by guardians).

They have 8K more base hp than us, I heal for 8K with my strongest heal.

>> whats the connection here? We heal 50% of our HP every 30 seconds. They heal 25% tops. IT has been debated quite a while that the low hp pool of guardians ist not that much of an issue.
warriors cry for the lack of protection which we throw around like candy.

We got a “unique” health-regen, they can equip a signet for that.

>> which uses a trait slot and is 3 times less effective then our heal

They have a 3 second block on their shield, we get a 4 second “hey have a free walk into my blue dome”.

>> Oranges and Apples. The walk is not free.. it comes at the cost of having stability.

Oh and we can be invulnerable for 3 seconds and regen what would have been : A few seconds burn, a 2-3k heal, one block, while doing nothing. They can be invulnerable for 5 seconds AND STILL DO WHAT THEY WANT.

>> ignoring all aspects and benefits that come with the activation of virtues AND that all these benefits are FOR EVERYONE AROUND YOU!

you made clear that this is a rant… but i feel that you did not really think all this through. yes warriors do more damage… they need to because they do not last in long fights.

here is an idea… team up with a warrior. this game is a lot more fun if you do not try to make it a solo game.

Well theres pros and cons in every class…..cant have it all. From a WvW perspective. We do have some advantages over the warrior.
1. Reflection wall
2. lines and wards……ignoring the fact many people can walk over them
3. 1200 range judge intervention surprise attack. (compared to Greatsword warrior who everyone can see a mile away. We just blink in)
4. Superior aoe damage over the warrior
5. More self heals. I made essays and wall of texts in “How not a Monk?” thread with judgebanks. I think we could agree that guardians heal teammates for a bit more than the warrior. Add in AH or meditation heals. We do have more self healing then those guys.
6. Save yourselves is still powerful WvW self buffing ability
7. The ability to grant groupwide protection and stability

Here just some advantages i can think of on a whim.

And we really need to stop comparing our burst with warrior GS hundred blade burst. Your always gonna feel gimp when you always compare yourself to that. Since hundred blade is like OMG (most likely) the highest bursting burst skill in thee whole game.

Feels like I’m the only Guardian who keeps changing Weapons and utilities on the go, depending on the situation.

Many players are set on 2 weapon sets and certain skills that they don’t even try to think for a moment what will work better for them in 1v1 compared to a zerg compared to a DE in PvE.

Horheristo.3607:

Feels like I’m the only Guardian who keeps changing Weapons and utilities on the go, depending on the situation.

Pretty sure that’s not the reality though. I think plenty of folks who have had sufficient amounts of experience with the game will be constantly switching weapons/utilities/armour sets/trinkets and traits on the fly depending on the situation.

I know, because I’m constantly getting frustrated by the combat lockout in WvW failing to clear, despite running halfway across to the otherside of the fort, and annoyed when dungeon groups don’t give me enough pause in between areas to switch things around. At least unlocked trait re-select can be done on the fly…

What? Guardians are probably one of the strongest class in every aspect of the game, unlike warriors who shine in pve but are not really as good in PvP. Warriors surely have higher dps/burst dps/mobility, but can they:

- grant protection AoE?
- grant stability AoE?
- Reflect/block projectiles?
- Block areas?
- Easily cleanse conditions?

p.s. you might wanna trait into virtues if you think they suck.

They should just give them the same hp as warrior and a viable ranged option.

^ I support this suggestion. My guardian should feel like a god amongst mere mortals.

Exactly, just give us same HP and we can act like pve bosses and entire zergs must be used to take us down.

I would like being a god for a day. Thats how long it would take for the nerf hammer to hit.

A proper ranged option though would be nice.

Guardian can soak up way more damage than a warrior. A guildie in my group hates running fractals on his warrior without me present on my guardian. I soak up damage that would faceroll other professions.

That being said, my warrior guildmate can out DPS me without even trying. On the dredge-suit fractal, I crit for 8k-13k on my scepter. He’s dodging in and out doing 100k hundred-blades.

As someone with both a guardian and a warrior I can honestly say both classes have their advantages. Warrior being dps and guardians damage mitigation and avoidance. What most of you are seeing as lackluster such as your weapon skill perhaps you should understand just what the trade off is. Warrior weapon abilities hit harder and generally dont have any secondary effect except cripple or bleed. Guardian weapon abilities have secondary effects like Damage leap and blind built into a single ability, or how qbout auto attacks that heal or grant protection on thr third hit. Where a warrior has a cripple, a guardian has the ability to root the target in place. Yes a warrior can burst a target down quickly but any capable equally leveled / skilled guardian will never lose to a warrior. Warriors must spec traits or use utility slots to do what a guardian can do inherently through weapon abilities or even virtues which are passive. Seeing both sides of the fence I would give neither of my characters up because I enjoy them for what they are.

Bakitten291:

Archer.1658:

worthless banter of hammer/staff vs GS warrior

Ok seriously, if you are going to argue against me, at least look at my build THAT IS RIGHT IN MY SIG. Sword + focus / scepter+ torch

Sword:
Auto attack: fast, hits for a good amount
Flashing blade: semi week but instant gap closer, blind, and speced to add vuln
Zealots Defense: good burst damage, roots you, but almost always opened with JI to promise hits

focus:
Ray of judgement: 2x blinds from bounce, 2x regen duration from bounce, 6 total stacks of vulnerability, AND some damage (about 1.6k normally when crits)
Shield of wrath: 3 blocks, each block give me might when speced for it, if not used explodes for 5k+ damage crits Also can be used at any time (excluding dazed)

Scpeter:
Auto attack: Wonky at range, but mostly use in melee for my build
Smite: somewhat decent, can be hard to land, but always paired with #3 when opening to promise hits
Chains of light: 900 range immobilize and vulnerability, no problems here

Torch:
Zealots flame: Small AoE burn, with a secondary ability to do very good damage and add a decent length burn at range
Cleansing Flame: Multi hit cone AoE, decent damage.

Also keep in mind that my build is a partial burn build, so every second you have burning thats 500+ damage ticking away, Meditation spec’d healing gives me 1800 heals on every utility use, Shelter as my heal gives me a might stack every time I block (and yes, i will absorb a 100b with it and throw those might stacks back in your face.)

So how about next time you try to argue you use the actual build of the person you are quoting, not some cookie cutter build that you “think” everyone uses.

Lol burn spec, you would die instantly after you burn your meditations.

Sword is absolutely terrible. Flashing blade animation is awful, and you will almost never land the blind unless you are point blank range. Zealots Defense, will almost miss every time and wasting JI to land it, theres goes one of your heals in an attempt to land this move. Ray of Judgement is crap and will miss if not do weak damage. Shield of wraith is good. Scepter is 100% useless in sPvP or WvW PvP, the immoblize takes too long to cast and smite isn’t going to do “good” damage unless they stand in it. Torch is decent dps. Therefore you would be smashed within seconds. So your build is actually worse than a cookie cutter. I applaud your attempts at theory crafting a burning build, but in reality, its quite weak.

Archer.1658:

Lol burn spec, you would die instantly after you burn your meditations.

Sword is absolutely terrible. Flashing blade animation is awful, and you will almost never land the blind unless you are point blank range. Zealots Defense, will almost miss every time and wasting JI to land it, theres goes one of your heals in an attempt to land this move. Ray of Judgement is crap and will miss if not do weak damage. Shield of wraith is good. Scepter is 100% useless in sPvP or WvW PvP, the immoblize takes too long to cast and smite isn’t going to do “good” damage unless they stand in it. Torch is decent dps. Therefore you would be smashed within seconds. So your build is actually worse than a cookie cutter. I applaud your attempts at theory crafting a burning build, but in reality, its quite weak.

I once again give you credit for not being able to click a single link in my sig.
A) its is not a burn spec, it is a hybrid burn spec, as in I added condition damage while inflicting minimal loss of DPS, I still have 2800 power with 1h sword, 72% crit, and 67% crit damage.
B) I play WvW, i get food, Omnomberry pie with 72% crit heals for ALOT. add in passive healing from virtue and heals from meditations, and guess what, tons of self healing while STILL burning you for 500 per tick.

I also love how you say all these skills will miss, Do warriors get an extra 10 dodges or something I don’t know about? The scepter Immobilize is actually very easy to land, and combos directly into smite, even if the immobilize is broken its still getting a few hits in. Zealots is actually VERY easy to land with JI when used correctly and knowing the timing of the wind up, Ray of judgment is used Point blank, so not sure how that is going to miss…

Will some of these moves be dodged? yes, But I am confused on how all of them are supposed to somehow miss like you say. Considering you seem to have no clue how skills are correctly used for guardian I would be amazed if you actually played one.

Reven.6750:

Where a warrior has a cripple, a guardian has the ability to root the target in place.

I disagree with this entirely. Warriors also have the ability to hold targets in place.
Warrior – Six cripple weapon skills.
Guardian – Two cripple skills, one on an elite tome and the other a downed underwater skill

Warrior – Four immobilise skills across weapons and utilities in addition to the Leg Specialist trait if they take it, which would bring it up to five.
Guardian – Three immobilise skills. One of which is a slow moving projectile dealy and another a condition damage signet….

So really, we aren’t anywhere near equal footing in regard to snares. This is also ignoring the fact that Warriors also have much easier access to swiftness and have a couple more gap closers.

Yes we have wards, which I quite like, however, they aren’t reliable and I would trade them in a heartbeat for reliable snares. They only last around 6 seconds, have a large cooldown and stability renders them useless. Cripples on Warrior weapons have a good uptime with reasonably short cooldowns and when they’re on cooldown, they can also throw out some immobilises. Stability isn’t going to do anything against those.

I also play a Warrior and I can’t think of a Warrior weapon that feels as broken as say Guardian’s torch, scepter or sword (to a lesser extent, staff). In fact, I’d say all the Warrior weapons work really well and are quite fun to play.

Yes, Guardians can withstand a lot of damage, yes, we can throw out a lot of boons but we can’t catch anyone easily, let alone kill them easily. We’re like party buffing punching bags.
Considering Guardian is designed to be more effective in melee range, you’d think we would have more options for maintaining that range.