Guild Wars 2

20k on a Tank in 4-5s. Doubtful.

20k on a Light / Glass Cannon in 4-5s… fair enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVszyyYjbcI

And just for a quick comparison, I just threw this video together this morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcAzf3aIBU&feature=youtu.be

Also note, Warrior’s Shout heals are DD not Regen. HUGE difference.

Also, warriors’ Warhorn can be spec’d to remove Imba/chil/etc.

It’s just different. No better or worse and when put together, it’s just destruction.

Amins.3710:

20k on a Tank in 4-5s. Doubtful.

20k on a Light / Glass Cannon in 4-5s… fair enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVszyyYjbcI

If you watch the video I posted at around 1:32-1:37 he hits another Warrior for ~19-20k. Even still, I’ve never seen a Guard hit for that much on any class in that short amount of time.

Amins.3710:

And just for a quick comparison, I just threw this video together this morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcAzf3aIBU&feature=youtu.be

2:00 = EPIC

Amins.3710:

Also note, Warrior’s Shout heals are DD not Regen. HUGE difference.

The regen I was referring to was on the banners if you spec it.

Amins.3710:

Also, warriors’ Warhorn can be spec’d to remove Imba/chil/etc.

I’m just gonna say that Guards have access to so much more team condition removal than Warrior’s Warhorn.

Brienson.7319:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Yeah no. Guardians have better defense and almost equivalent offense. If you think Guardians do little damage, congratulations, you’re another of the 99% of the playerbase that doesn’t realize they’re the second-highest DPS class in the game and are just making assumptions based on the name of the class, of all things.

I’m just going to start linking this post from now because it pretty much explains everything:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/78121-guardian-too-support-for-me/#entry2129000

the post you linked to is horribly biased and inaccurate. if this is what you’re using as a basis to your belief that guard deals better damage than warrior, i think you need to stop believing everyone that random jackoffs on the internet spew out.

whenever someone is claiming that warrior rifle is a condition weapon, that’s pretty much an “okay” to go ahead and tune them out, because they have no idea what they’re talking about.

guard’s damage output is extremely unreliable. symbols can be walked out of, and whirlwind is random as all hell.

I like how you say I have no idea what I’m talking but then you think rifle isn’t a condition weapon. To be fair, rifle isn’t that good at condition damage either, but it’s the best ranged option warriors have. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make.

Guardian DPS is way more reliable than warrior DPS. You can walk out of HB too, just so you know, and warriors lose way more damage when that happens. Along the same lines, if WW is interrupted you don’t lose nearly as much as you would if HB was interrupted, and it’s also much harder to interrupt in general because the channel is much shorter.

Agree’d on the overall abundance of condition removals for Guardians. No dbout.

Howerver, being able to specifically remove the biggest killers in the game, on demand for your entire group (or in this case, people around you)… priceless…. any experienced PVPer knows this.

If you are having trouble as a guardian in WvW it’s probably because you have a defensive playstyle. The game doesn’t let you heal yourself through focus fire and still live. If you have this habit from other games, you need to change, no way around it.

Perhaps a bit un-intuitive but if you aren’t the type to spec heavy spike and CC, you should use a greatsword. Retaliation is useful against the biggest movers in zerg v zerg (aoe nukers and rapid firing spikers), you pop this on a bunch of allies and the opposing glass cannons will spike themselves to death just through retaliation alone, for the ones that managed to cease attacking before they die you can swoop in and spin them down quite easily too.

Don’t think that just because you’re a guardian you have to hold a hammer or mace or whatever. Protection and regeneration is easy to come by in a group, plenty of classes can stack it. Your primary objective is to take down the enemy regardless of what your inclination or profession, so think more along the lines of hurting the other side, and less on delaying the inevitable, and you’ll have more fun.

I have both a 80 Guardian, and 80 Warrior, both with three different exotic sets of gear, each.

Talking WvW here, and not sPvP.

Conditions are a push for both classes because any good WvW player will have a second set of weapons, that utilizes Sigil of Purity,. which is amazing for condition removals. Since I’ve been slotting these Sigils, I rarely notice conditions.

In the right build, utilizing Omnom Pies, and Sigil of Blood and a Warriors higher critical hit chance, they can heal as well, if not better than a Guardian. With the right Warrior build, you can negate damage for 36 seconds, thanks to shield block, five sec invuln, extra dodges (that negates all damage) because for some reason even though I can keep Vigor up for a very long time on my Guardian, I seem to be able to dodge more on my Warrior, among other abilities the Warrior has.

All in all, under the right circumstances, (a Guardian has multiple players around them), they will heal, at most 22% more than the Warrior, TO THEMSELVES, but keep in mind the Warrior can shout heal five people, including himself, while AH, or Meditations only heal the Guardian.

I’m not even going to cover damage, because a Warrior is far, far superior than a Guardian when it comes to damage. Especially when a Warrior is also dodging, preventing damage to himself, but doing AE damage to those enemies near him.

The only thing I like with the Guardian, and my sons build is that he uses both Hammer+Greatsword pulling targets with the Greatsword, and trapping them with the Hammer so his Elementalist partners can destroy those trapped.

However, a Mace Warrior can apply Weakness constantly, which is VERY NICE.

Amins.3710:

And just for a quick comparison, I just threw this video together this morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcAzf3aIBU&feature=youtu.be

BTW, slightly off topic, but I really liked that vid. I subbed, hope you post more.

Lot’s of people posting about berserker-build Guardians that clearly haven’t played them.

If you go full berserkers with a Guardian and go glass cannon, you lose virtually all survival and still don’t gain as much DPS as a Warrior glass cannon.

The point of a glass cannon is to be able to down your enemy quickly enough so that your own lack of defense isn’t a factor. A glass cannon Guardian is basically a free kill for any competent player.

I know because I used to be ignorant and thought a Guardian’s defense would carry over into a full glass cannon. The reality is that Guardians have a very low base survival without Toughness. Light over-time healing is pointless when you’re able to be bursted down by almost anyone due to a base health of 11k.

Alarox.4590:

Lot’s of people posting about berserker-build Guardians that clearly haven’t played them.

If you go full berserkers with a Guardian and go glass cannon, you lose virtually all survival and still don’t gain as much DPS as a Warrior glass cannon.

The point of a glass cannon is to be able to down your enemy quickly enough so that your own lack of defense isn’t a factor. A glass cannon Guardian is basically a free kill for any competent player.

I know because I used to be ignorant and thought a Guardian’s defense would carry over into a full glass cannon. The reality is that Guardians have a very low base survival without Toughness. Light over-time healing is pointless when you’re able to be bursted down by almost anyone due to a base health of 11k.

A full offense guardian is fantastic precisely because your damage output equals that of a glass cannon but you retain the defensive capabilities of a bunker build. As such it’s not accurate to call them a “glass cannon” because there really isn’t any such thing.

Your problem is that you are apparently trying to build your “glass cannon” with the emphasis on the “glass” part and not the “cannon.” The guardian has a ridiculous number of defensive options in general even if he doesn’t want them, though, so trying to say your defense will ever be bad just because your health is low is silly. With greatsword, your gap closer is a blind and you can drop symbol if they are trying to melee you to force your opponent to either back off or take massive damage. With sword, you have a blind and scepter gives you an immobilize for kiting purposes. Focus and shield are both amazing for defensive purposes in general too. You have an instant cast emergency heal that gives regen till you use it (Resolve), a panic button that will block multiple attacks (passive and active Courage), a skill that gives instant invul and then recharges your panic buttons (Renewed), and that’s all stuff that will be on your bar whether you want it or not. I regularly outlast necromancers on my “glass cannon” guardian with no points in Honor or Valor and do just fine.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

A full offense guardian is fantastic precisely because your damage output equals that of a glass cannon but you retain the defensive capabilities of a bunker build. As such it’s not accurate to call them a “glass cannon” because there really isn’t any such thing.

Build and video please.

The remainder of your post rests on you providing evidence that such a build is capable of providing the burst of, let’s say a glass cannon Warrior/Thief (which are the standards), while maintaining the survival of a bunker. I’ve played the Guardian a lot, and I know damage and bunker builds inside and out, and I don’t know of a build that can do both to the degree you describe. In response to the remainder of your post, there’s a lot more to survival than long cooldown defensive skills.

I’m not saying Guardians can’t be bursty, or that they can’t hybrid damage/survival. What I’m saying is that a Guardian full glass cannon berserkers doesn’t have burst large and fast enough to compare to a glass cannon Thief or Warrior, and the survival drops below that of a Warrior/Thief. Warriors have roughly twice the health pool while having the same armor as the Guardian. With Toughness, the Guardian gains more survival due to the healing becoming more and more effective. Without toughness to enhance the effect of healing, the Warrior has far more survival as a glass cannon than a Guardian. With regards to the Thief, they have stealth and the best mobility in the game, giving them almost unparalleled survival. It’s not that they can take a punch to the face better than anyone else, it’s that they don’t have to be in risk of taking a punch to the face if they don’t want to.

Zelcova.4173:

Also, anyone else who plays Guardian would know that we are slow as hell and we can’t catch Players who run away from us in PvP and we can’t run away when things get rough.

Like I said I love my Guardian and I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m crying but, I believe we need to be buffed even just a little and I hope there’s someone out there who agrees with me.

Guardians are way more popular in sPvP than Warriors (at least in higher ranked games)

Ppl need to stop comparing Warriors and Guardians. Just because they wear the same class of armor does not mean they have the same role or something. They are just differents professions that’s it.
Heavy is about 290 points of armor more than Light which I believe results in 290 toughness difference. But you know what? Mesmers start with 4,200 more HP than Guardians which is a 420 vitality difference. And TBH I used to be a very very tough Mesmer (much more than I am as a Guardian) in dungeons because of traits and skills rather than just HP/toughness.

Still I agree with the Warriors shouts being effective. Recharge times are just better and Pure of Voice is not 100% reliable. Not to mention that Hold the Line looks a bit useless in PvE (might be OK for PvP).

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Alarox.4590:

Lot’s of people posting about berserker-build Guardians that clearly haven’t played them.

If you go full berserkers with a Guardian and go glass cannon, you lose virtually all survival and still don’t gain as much DPS as a Warrior glass cannon.

The point of a glass cannon is to be able to down your enemy quickly enough so that your own lack of defense isn’t a factor. A glass cannon Guardian is basically a free kill for any competent player.

I know because I used to be ignorant and thought a Guardian’s defense would carry over into a full glass cannon. The reality is that Guardians have a very low base survival without Toughness. Light over-time healing is pointless when you’re able to be bursted down by almost anyone due to a base health of 11k.

A full offense guardian is fantastic precisely because your damage output equals that of a glass cannon but you retain the defensive capabilities of a bunker build. As such it’s not accurate to call them a “glass cannon” because there really isn’t any such thing.

Your problem is that you are apparently trying to build your “glass cannon” with the emphasis on the “glass” part and not the “cannon.” The guardian has a ridiculous number of defensive options in general even if he doesn’t want them, though, so trying to say your defense will ever be bad just because your health is low is silly. With greatsword, your gap closer is a blind and you can drop symbol if they are trying to melee you to force your opponent to either back off or take massive damage. With sword, you have a blind and scepter gives you an immobilize for kiting purposes. Focus and shield are both amazing for defensive purposes in general too. You have an instant cast emergency heal that gives regen till you use it (Resolve), a panic button that will block multiple attacks (passive and active Courage), a skill that gives instant invul and then recharges your panic buttons (Renewed), and that’s all stuff that will be on your bar whether you want it or not. I regularly outlast necromancers on my “glass cannon” guardian with no points in Honor or Valor and do just fine.

Your “glass cannon” guardian would get wrecked by any competent chump. Guardian wasn’t meant for dps and never will, as proof anets continual nerfs to our dps. Killing a necro on a guardian doesn’t mean jack since 99% of necros are condition builds, and every rookie guardian runs some kind of condition removal lol. I would love to see this full DPS guardian by the way.

“A full offense guardian is fantastic precisely because your damage output equals that of a glass cannon but you retain the defensive capabilities of a bunker build. As such it’s not accurate to call them a “glass cannon” because there really isn’t any such thing.”

I smell BS

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

LOL @

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

PvP is WvW kid. In fact WvW is the father of PvP.

Where do you think instanced PvP started from… out of the blue from WoW?

[EDIT] It started from all us old farts who would take a tight crew and roam maps for hours, destroying entire zergs. We wanted more. We wanted to reduce the down time of ‘roaming’ to find out enemies.

Thus, instance pvp where we basically get to login a single map and kill things right from the start, w/o any roaming.

“PvP” or rather sPvP has gotten so watered down that basically it is nothing more than a 1v1 to 2v3 matchup at any given point. BORING.

Recently.1043:

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

Overall your above post is a really simple minded way of looking at things, and regarding WvW it’s just false.

1.) Do you know why Guardians are needed in tPvP? The only reason is that they have bunker builds. That is the only reason. The only one. It’s not because they’re godly. It’s not because they’re the best at everything. It’s only because tPvP is based entirely on capture points and Guardians happen to have bunker builds.

2.) Depends on what you do in WvW. If you roll with coordinated guilds on upper tier servers who face off against other coordinated upper tier guilds, then you NEED synergy builds.

Alarox.4590:

Recently.1043:

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

Overall your above post is a really simple minded way of looking at things, and regarding WvW it’s just false.

1.) Do you know why Guardians are needed in tPvP? The only reason is that they have bunker builds. That is the only reason. The only one. It’s not because they’re godly. It’s not because they’re the best at everything. It’s only because tPvP is based entirely on capture points and Guardians happen to have bunker builds.

2.) Depends on what you do in WvW. If you roll with coordinated guilds on upper tier servers who face off against other coordinated upper tier guilds, then you NEED synergy builds.

It’s because they can roll a “bunker” and still put out high damage. Or rather, they can put out high damage and still be “bunkers”. It’s actually the same thing, because it’s the same build.

Your misconception is that you think a DPS needs to be able to burst to be effective. Guardian doesn’t need to burst precisely because he doesn’t die so fast that burst is mandatory. I mentioned necromancers because this is exactly the same way necromancers work: you outlast. Except unlike necromancers, you do good damage too. A guardian chasing a target with a sword or greatsword actually deals more damage over time than a warrior with an axe or greatsword, and can do so for much longer before dying. The downside is that he doesn’t have the option of suddenly blowing through half the target’s health bar instantly.

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

Recently.1043:

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

I love when sPvP players try to claim to be these PvP Gods. They have to nerf classes for sPvP, because you guys can’t handle a fully geared, fully operational build. While they’re nerfing stuff to make it easier for you to handle, WvW players are dealing with that, and much, much more.

I tried sPvP for an entire day, and people called me a hacker because I was destroying them, and havn’t gone back to it since. I don’t like carebear PvP, and that is exactly what sPvP is.

Quit mistaking your ranking system to mean you’re more skilled than those people who choose WvW as their form of PvP.

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

6-7k eviscerate? 11-16k for kill shot? are you sure you have been shooting at a guardian? or are you just shouting off some damage that you’ve been doing to cloth classes lol

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

You think the ranger’s terribad damage is higher than anything? Really? I think it’s pretty obvious just from that statement that you don’t understand how damage works. Hint: More numbers =/= more damage.

The ranger is pretty crap at everything except shooting at people from 1500 range with longbow in WvW (and I’d rather just grenade with Engineer for that). A full glass cannon ranger deals less damage than a “glass” cannon guardian, is much glassier, and has worse burst to boot.

There’s a reason why the only rangers you ever see are bots.

^^ That’s not entirely true.

I run w/ a pretty kick kitten Condition build Ranger and when he can set up, then Engangle + my AoE & control… it’s pretty devistating. We’ve taken out grps of 6 before and walked away with over 50% Health.

It’s just ~different~. I find myself telling people this alot these days. They are different. It’s just …. different. The set up, the burst, the take down & the down.

This thread has alot of cringe worthy posts.

lol title

I recon if played right (and now just pew pew) rangers can be a very good class. They are pure CC that can change the course of a battle.

I have yet to make one but I think it will be my next alt. I’m sure they couldn’t have made a class that bad and not have buffed them somehow during all the patches.

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

6-7k eviscerate? 11-16k for kill shot? are you sure you have been shooting at a guardian? or are you just shouting off some damage that you’ve been doing to cloth classes lol

Mind you, this is WvW.

In full Beserker gear, I’ve hit 24k Killshots, and with Piercing, I’ve one shot as many as three people with it.

I know a Guardian when I see one.

I destroy Guardians with 3500 and higher Armor in less than 7 seconds, so a glass canon Guardian would pop like a zit. I really don’t think you understand the full damage potential of a Warrior, and/or Thief to even believe a Guardian can match their damage, or survive it for any length of time in WvW, if they don’t have over 2700 Armor.

Keep in mind a Warrior can trigger “On my Mark” 10 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with “Brutal Shot” 5 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with their trait; “Rending Strikes”, which can give Vulnerability on crits, and also stacks with the; Sigil of Frailty, which can also grant Vulnerability on crits.

I’ve had 18 or more stacks of Vulnerability on my target in a few seconds, right before I begin my burst. The damage is very noticable.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

You think the ranger’s terribad damage is higher than anything? Really? I think it’s pretty obvious just from that statement that you don’t understand how damage works. Hint: More numbers =/= more damage.

The ranger is pretty crap at everything except shooting at people from 1500 range with longbow in WvW (and I’d rather just grenade with Engineer for that). A full glass cannon ranger deals less damage than a “glass” cannon guardian, is much glassier, and has worse burst to boot.

There’s a reason why the only rangers you ever see are bots.

You really don’t know this game if you believe a Ranger can’t do that much damage.

In less than 7 seconds I can stack 25 stacks of Bleeding on you, Burning, Poison, Chilling, with roughly 15 stacks of Vulnerability (sometimes more). If you remove all of that, shortly after I can reapply 12-18 stacks of Bleeding (depending on crits), reapply Poison, Burning, and Chilling, with roughly 5-9 stacks of Vulnerability.

At minimum, without counting any other damage, JUST MY BLEEDS, I’m doing 1344 a second, to as much as 2800 a second.

Now throw in the damage for Poison, Burning, and direct damage, and you couldn’t hold a candle to the damage I’m doing, all while being able to kite you. Bleeds alone, I’d kill your Glass Canon Guardian in 4-9 seconds.

If you get knocked down by one of my Canine pets, you’re down for two seconds without being able to trigger any safety nets you have. I’ve killed all bunker builds but Elementalists in that two seconds, and have killed EVERY glass canon build in that two seconds.

Since pre-release my Ranger has never died to a Guardian, and for that matter, I could probably kill two at once.

Most people don’t know a Ranger has 2 second Haste on demand, just by switching pets, which is murder to any glass canon build out there.

jkctmc.8754:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

You think the ranger’s terribad damage is higher than anything? Really? I think it’s pretty obvious just from that statement that you don’t understand how damage works. Hint: More numbers =/= more damage.

The ranger is pretty crap at everything except shooting at people from 1500 range with longbow in WvW (and I’d rather just grenade with Engineer for that). A full glass cannon ranger deals less damage than a “glass” cannon guardian, is much glassier, and has worse burst to boot.

There’s a reason why the only rangers you ever see are bots.

You really don’t know this game if you believe a Ranger can’t do that much damage.

In less than 7 seconds I can stack 25 stacks of Bleeding on you, Burning, Poison, Chilling, with roughly 15 stacks of Vulnerability (sometimes more). If you remove all of that, shortly after I can reapply 12-18 stacks of Bleeding (depending on crits), reapply Poison, Burning, and Chilling, with roughly 5-9 stacks of Vulnerability.

At minimum, without counting my direct damage, JUST MY BLEEDS, I’m doing 1344 a second, to as much as 2800 a second.

Now throw in the damage for Poison, Burning, and direct damage, and you couldn’t hold a candle to the damage I’m doing, all while being able to kite you. Bleeds alone, I’d kill your Glass Canon Guardian in 4-9 seconds.

If you get knocked down by one of my Canine pets, you’re down for two seconds without being able to trigger any safety nets you have.

Since pre-release my Ranger has never died to a Guardian, and for that matter, I could probably kill two at once.

That’s funny, I was about to say I could kill two rangers at the same time. In fact, I’ve done it fairly often. I like how you just threw out some random numbers and hoped that no one here actually has a ranger to call you out on it. Ranger can’t maintain 25 stacks of bleed by itself unless you’re flanking the target, and good luck doing that. Their bleed isn’t any better than any other class with a Sigil of Earth otherwise, because that’s in fact where most of their damage comes from. Even being generous and assuming you could get flanking hits 100% of the time, you’re still looking at 20 stacks tops. That’s only 2k/s with extremely low direct damage (rangers hit for crap direct damage even in Berserker’s, much less in Rabid).

Then again, I guess if you’re only fighting afk opponents who don’t even bother to turn around to face you when you attack them, any class seems godlike. On the other hand, if you’re actually losing fights against afk opponents, you might want to reconsider your priorities.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

jkctmc.8754:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

You think the ranger’s terribad damage is higher than anything? Really? I think it’s pretty obvious just from that statement that you don’t understand how damage works. Hint: More numbers =/= more damage.

The ranger is pretty crap at everything except shooting at people from 1500 range with longbow in WvW (and I’d rather just grenade with Engineer for that). A full glass cannon ranger deals less damage than a “glass” cannon guardian, is much glassier, and has worse burst to boot.

There’s a reason why the only rangers you ever see are bots.

You really don’t know this game if you believe a Ranger can’t do that much damage.

In less than 7 seconds I can stack 25 stacks of Bleeding on you, Burning, Poison, Chilling, with roughly 15 stacks of Vulnerability (sometimes more). If you remove all of that, shortly after I can reapply 12-18 stacks of Bleeding (depending on crits), reapply Poison, Burning, and Chilling, with roughly 5-9 stacks of Vulnerability.

At minimum, without counting my direct damage, JUST MY BLEEDS, I’m doing 1344 a second, to as much as 2800 a second.

Now throw in the damage for Poison, Burning, and direct damage, and you couldn’t hold a candle to the damage I’m doing, all while being able to kite you. Bleeds alone, I’d kill your Glass Canon Guardian in 4-9 seconds.

If you get knocked down by one of my Canine pets, you’re down for two seconds without being able to trigger any safety nets you have.

Since pre-release my Ranger has never died to a Guardian, and for that matter, I could probably kill two at once.

That’s funny, I was about to say I could kill two rangers at the same time. In fact, I’ve done it fairly often. I like how you just threw out some random numbers and hoped that no one here actually has a ranger to call you out on it. Ranger can’t maintain 25 stacks of bleed by itself unless you’re flanking the target, and good luck doing that. Their bleed isn’t any better than any other class with a Sigil of Earth otherwise, because that’s in fact where most of their damage comes from. Even being generous and assuming you could get flanking hits 100% of the time, you’re still looking at 20 stacks tops. That’s only 2k/s with extremely low direct damage (rangers hit for crap direct damage even in Berserker’s, much less in Rabid).

Then again, I guess if you’re only fighting afk opponents who don’t even bother to turn around to face you when you attack them, any class seems godlike. On the other hand, if you’re actually losing fights against afk opponents, you might want to reconsider your priorities.

Just because you play the Ranger, doesn’t mean you know the Ranger.

I didn’t say I could maintain 25 stacks of bleed, but I sure can put that many up with the help of my pet in a short period of time, and it makes a HUGE difference. I also see you have no idea how easy it is to flank, and probably believe it is “back only”. If I strafe, or move so that you have to “turn towards me”, I get flank. Flanking is back, and side, and the game constantly gives you flank, if you MOVE.

You act like WvW/PvP is a vacuum, and people stand still or something.

Most people don’t know a Ranger has 2 second Haste on demand, just by switching pets, which is murder to any glass canon build out there.

Something you might want to do, which I’m sure you do not, is use food on the fly. Food can be changed out while; “in combat”, so if you’re dodging, quickly eat your 40% bonus to endurance regen food, and so on.

I open my bags, and drag my bags all the way to the right, so I always have access to the varity of foods available.

Recently.1043:

The fact that every team guardian is required whereas most teams don’t even want a warrior should tell you all you need to know about the respective powers of these classes in pvp. Guardian is arguably the only required class to have in tpvp to be successful.

and wvw is not real pvp. you can roll whatever the hell you want in wvw and succeed.

Imho spvp matters very little. Its not real pvp in that it only allows two types of builds or playstyles. You build either bunker or burst and since guardian is a good bunker it will be preferred. Warrior is more veratile and performs more roles in WvW and does some of them much better.

jkctmc.8754:

Just because you play the Ranger, doesn’t mean you know the Ranger.

I didn’t say I could maintain 25 stacks of bleed, but I sure can put that many up with the help of my pet in a short period of time, and it makes a HUGE difference. I also see you have no idea how easy it is to flank, and probably believe it is “back only”. If I strafe, or move so that you have to “turn towards me”, I get flank. Flanking is back, and side, and the game constantly gives you flank, if you MOVE.

You act like WvW/PvP is a vacuum, and people stand still or something.

Most people don’t know a Ranger has 2 second Haste on demand, just by switching pets, which is murder to any glass canon build out there.

I thought I posted a relative long remark here but it didn’t seem to go through. I’ll just summarize:

1) Flanking isn’t as easy as you think it is, especially not in 1v1 PvP. A guy runs at you, you sidestep, he turns and keeps coming at you. People aren’t stupid. They’re not going to keep running straight forward if you aren’t there anymore. At best you get maybe 1-2 flanking hits before he readjusts. Once he’s in melee range you won’t get any flanking hits ever. In WvW where everyone is just running around aimlessly and there’s lag and culling everywhere, sure. Everything works in WvW anyway though, it’s not real PvP unless you happen across a small group in the field. Which my guardian is capable of taking down solo, incidentally.

2) Including pet bleeds contradicts your claim that you can do 2800/second from bleeds. Pets bleed for a tiny bit over 70 at most, since they have less condition damage than you do. In fact pet bleeds are very easy to avoid, even with the recent buff to their attacks, and all they do is make your bleed stack look better than it actually is. In actuality half, if not more, of your bleed stack in PvP is probably coming from your pet, i.e. extremely gimped. Even if you do hit 25 briefly, that’s not an indicator of how much you can actually bleed if that’s coming from QZ + Sharpening Stone. Even if the opponent doesn’t cleanse it at best you get 1-2 ticks at that strength. 4k from bleeds sounds nice but when that’s pretty much the entirety of your damage output for the next minute, your average output is actually quite low. And considering a Guardian can easily whirl for 5k, it’s not even that much even if it was spammable.

3) Having QZ on pet swap isn’t as good as you think it is. 2s of quickness gets you 4 extra shortbow shots, which isn’t really that much. By the time your pet gets into range after the swap, the QZ is probably already over for it so it doesn’t really affect your pet at all. It’s good for quickstomping and that’s about it. For the most part quickness is good when you have a good skill to use it with, like HB. Rangers don’t.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

6-7k eviscerate? 11-16k for kill shot? are you sure you have been shooting at a guardian? or are you just shouting off some damage that you’ve been doing to cloth classes lol

Mind you, this is WvW.

In full Beserker gear, I’ve hit 24k Killshots, and with Piercing, I’ve one shot as many as three people with it.

I know a Guardian when I see one.

I destroy Guardians with 3500 and higher Armor in less than 7 seconds, so a glass canon Guardian would pop like a zit. I really don’t think you understand the full damage potential of a Warrior, and/or Thief to even believe a Guardian can match their damage, or survive it for any length of time in WvW, if they don’t have over 2700 Armor.

Keep in mind a Warrior can trigger “On my Mark” 10 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with “Brutal Shot” 5 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with their trait; “Rending Strikes”, which can give Vulnerability on crits, and also stacks with the; Sigil of Frailty, which can also grant Vulnerability on crits.

I’ve had 18 or more stacks of Vulnerability on my target in a few seconds, right before I begin my burst. The damage is very noticable.

Which gets removed by a guardian with 1 skill. GG

I’d wager 1000g that neither of you could kill my Warrior, or Ranger as a Guardian. Care to put up 1000g, and we can switch servers?

I will give it a go. But i wont wager 1000g. Who the hell has 1000g????

KensaiZen.3740:

I will give it a go. But i wont wager 1000g. Who the hell has 1000g????

I do. How do you think I gear up 4 80s in Exotics, and such? I’m actually planning on doing my Legendaries for each soon. Just havn’t decided if I want to do my secondary weapon(s) or not yet.

I’m on Anvil Rock, so it’s probably best if we transfer to two of the lowest tier servers, or you could transfer to one of the servers I’m against, that way we can avoid queues, and a large population that could interrupt the fight(s).

You could just go to an sPvP map. Unless your build depends heavily on customized WvW stats, racial abilities, or food (nothing wrong with that).

jkctmc.8754:

I do. How do you think I gear up 4 80s in Exotics, and such? I’m actually planning on doing my Legendaries for each soon. Just havn’t decided if I want to do my secondary weapon(s) or not yet.

A bit offtopic, but I geared up 4 80s in exoticis as well and I never had more than 200g ;<

Back to the topic, giving your numbers damage in wvw is pretty misleading, most people are underlevelled and undergeared, I dealt 20k dmg with WW a lot of times.

Anyway, you all are wrong, warriors can solo lupi, guardians cant, hence warriors >> guardians ;P

Oozo.7856:

You could just go to an sPvP map. Unless your build depends heavily on customized WvW stats, racial abilities, or food (nothing wrong with that).

All my builds are made for WvW, and that includes the food, and changing that food during combat. My builds will not work in sPvP.

Could someone record that battle? Like a third person just hanging around as a camera guy? Would be pretty cool to see how the battle turns out

yeah that i would like to see,

on a side note all pvp formats in this game as it is now is bad, spvp = hero battles with people, wvw imo is better it does rely on having gold like someone posted relying on food for their build to work, seems like a pay to win game and not a play to win compared to the original guild wars.

anet really needs to introduce guild vs guild, which is what the original guild wars was based on and no other mmo even now could beat in terms of competitive pvp.

Divine South Paw.5938:

yeah that i would like to see,

on a side note all pvp formats in this game as it is now is bad, spvp = hero battles with people, wvw imo is better it does rely on having gold like someone posted relying on food for their build to work, seems like a pay to win game and not a play to win compared to the original guild wars.

anet really needs to introduce guild vs guild, which is what the original guild wars was based on and no other mmo even now could beat in terms of competitive pvp.

Aion GvG was the bomb x.x lol i never tried it on guild wars yet but meh i heared it was okay from some people maybe they might put it in guild wars 2 who knows but WvW sometimes feels like GvG or atleast the players i face with my guild the enemy 80% of the time is all from 1 guild

You realize that WvW is full of broken stuff like Generosity sigils, food that gives chill on crit, etc.? There’s a reason Anet uses the PvP version of skills for sPvP but WvW. WvW isn’t meant to be a serious PvP format.

I’ll gladly take your 1000 gold in an sPvP match, though. Put the money up first, I doubt you actually have that much.

The reason they allow all that stuff in WvW, Guanglai, is they know that the little kids playing sPvP can’t handle the diversity… it’s too much for them. They need standardization because they lack the ability to adapt…. you know… tunnel vision.

IE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I&feature=player_embedded

Ooo the Irony.

ummm no the reason for that is cause some skills are more imba then others and the spvp format to anet is their pride and joy, if you played gw1 that is the case on all pvp formats

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You realize that WvW is full of broken stuff like Generosity sigils, food that gives chill on crit, etc.? There’s a reason Anet uses the PvP version of skills for sPvP but WvW. WvW isn’t meant to be a serious PvP format.

I’ll gladly take your 1000 gold in an sPvP match, though. Put the money up first, I doubt you actually have that much.

I can’t believe you went, and tried to insult me. I hope you understand sPvP is for carebears who need things nerfed for them to compete. So of course you won’t face me in WvW.

I spent an entire day in sPvP and was doing so good, people who have been doing sPvP for awhile, started calling me a hacker. I havn’t gone back. <laughs>

But I can understand why you would enjoy playing an aspect of the game where they level for you, give you your gear for free, so you don’t have to earn anything. I’ve spent the time to earn everything I’ve fot, so forgive me for seeking a greater challenge where nothing is made easy for me.

If you like your build, GREAT, but what people are having an issue with, is that you’re trying to say your damage is higher than it really is. One of the reasons for that are those of us who have played many of the other classes, and who also play our Guardians are alarmed that Anet might actually believe your misguided information, and not give the Guardian buffs it desperately needs. A lot of people, like myself have quit our Guardians because the nerfs (done for sPvP carebears) has destroyed the class for WvW, and made it an extremely easy target to kill.

KensaiZen.3740:

let me put this into perspective

Warriors have roughly 20k more HP then a Guardian.

A thief does a burst combo on both classes with a 4 hit combo that does around 20k damage

Warrior absorbs the damage with its vitality and left with 15K health with no way to fully heal back up to 35K hp

Guardians block the first hit with aegis, blocked the second hit with another aegis, third attack missed with VoJ traited for blind, blocks last hit with a shield or focus or mace. If not block the last hit, the guardian can heal it back by just passive regen and symbol as well as AH giving health for using Virtues.

Damage mitigation is hugely powerful. Warriors are under powered. This is why they have been buffed recently.

Im sad to say, its another issue of L2P

So in you example a warrior sits there and lets himself get hit?
I hate finding this in these forums, if you have a massive hard on for a class please just write it somewhere else. Maybe get a tattoo saying I <3 Warrior. Warriors to have damage mitigation. And please provide the video where you manage to block all of a thief’s attacks. If you reflexes are really quick enough to not take a single hit after a thief jumps you from no where I will retract all ill perceptions of you.

Barnabus Stinson.1409:

KensaiZen.3740:

let me put this into perspective

Warriors have roughly 20k more HP then a Guardian.

A thief does a burst combo on both classes with a 4 hit combo that does around 20k damage

Warrior absorbs the damage with its vitality and left with 15K health with no way to fully heal back up to 35K hp

Guardians block the first hit with aegis, blocked the second hit with another aegis, third attack missed with VoJ traited for blind, blocks last hit with a shield or focus or mace. If not block the last hit, the guardian can heal it back by just passive regen and symbol as well as AH giving health for using Virtues.

Damage mitigation is hugely powerful. Warriors are under powered. This is why they have been buffed recently.

Im sad to say, its another issue of L2P

So in you example a warrior sits there and lets himself get hit?
I hate finding this in these forums, if you have a massive hard on for a class please just write it somewhere else. Maybe get a tattoo saying I <3 Warrior. Warriors to have damage mitigation. And please provide the video where you manage to block all of a thief’s attacks. If you reflexes are really quick enough to not take a single hit after a thief jumps you from no where I will retract all ill perceptions of you.

It’s actually easy, see Thief, get into range, pop shield 3 second blocks, with the right spec stacks might, and pop 5 second invulnerability right before you knock him down, or stun him with Mace long duration stun, and kill him becuase most Thieves don’t run stun removal abilities.

jkctmc.8754:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You realize that WvW is full of broken stuff like Generosity sigils, food that gives chill on crit, etc.? There’s a reason Anet uses the PvP version of skills for sPvP but WvW. WvW isn’t meant to be a serious PvP format.

I’ll gladly take your 1000 gold in an sPvP match, though. Put the money up first, I doubt you actually have that much.

I can’t believe you went, and tried to insult me. I hope you understand sPvP is for carebears who need things nerfed for them to compete. So of course you won’t face me in WvW.

I spent an entire day in sPvP and was doing so good, people who have been doing sPvP for awhile, started calling me a hacker. I havn’t gone back. <laughs>

But I can understand why you would enjoy playing an aspect of the game where they level for you, give you your gear for free, so you don’t have to earn anything. I’ve spent the time to earn everything I’ve fot, so forgive me for seeking a greater challenge where nothing is made easy for me.

If you like your build, GREAT, but what people are having an issue with, is that you’re trying to say your damage is higher than it really is. One of the reasons for that are those of us who have played many of the other classes, and who also play our Guardians are alarmed that Anet might actually believe your misguided information, and not give the Guardian buffs it desperately needs. A lot of people, like myself have quit our Guardians because the nerfs (done for sPvP carebears) has destroyed the class for WvW, and made it an extremely easy target to kill.

In the fighting game community, we go “u scare? huehuehue”. Seems appropriate here. You’re like one of those people who quit a fighting game because they nerfed your character. I remember a ton of people quitting Blazblue because they changed Ragna’s Berial Edge combo in CS2.

It should be obvious that sPvP is the competitive format. That’s why Anet balances around it. WvW they don’t even care about balance because that format is literally just a bunch of idiots running into each other until something dies.

This is fun.

WvWvW isn’t a bunch of idiots running around mindless like the above poster said. In fact, that really isn’t fair (not that I think you intended it to be). Same as sPvP nothing being the bread and butter of what Arena net is offering. I think it is safe to say that WoW is the cause and effect of what many companies are trying to copy in the format of sPvP because of their BG and arena system. Pre WoW anyone who PvP’d at all more or less came from DaOC which didn’t offer that (thank God) and relied on RvR. That is why Tarren Mill was always so popular and why many hated it.

Structed PvP is predictable. It is a known state with set objectives and a set map. It doesn’t really change if that makes sense. What does change, however, are the teams you face based on a set limit by the developers. Smaller parties and confined spaces means you face in the end predictable configuations and/or comps. We see this today in WoW and have since season 1. I know, been there done that. So have many of us here on the forums. R/P/M anyone? Healer/DK? I mean the list goes on and on and on and nothing changes.

WvWvW on the other hand isn’t “as” predictable because you are facing many bigger factors such as keeps, NPC’s, people both groups of large and small composition, and various skill and gear levels. Not to mention up ticked players. It isn’t just a mindless zerg because a small group of 2 can, and actually do, take keeps and/or supply camps because it doesn’t cross swords. Then there are solo players looking for a fight or pull off cool tricks like pulling champs to camps and taking stuff out that way.

But WvWvW isn’t just idiots running amuk with their heads cut off. To say that is just plan ignorant on the posters part and dosn’t understand the format.

wow this has gone way off topic,
oh well anyway what i mentioned before in guild wars 2 the formats don’t really have a clear better format, like in guild wars 1 it was obvious which format was the better, ab/jq/fa was the beginner pvp ,ra and ta was better then heroes ascent and the most competitive was the guild vs guild and everyone agreed to this most the time if not people can prove otherwise cause there is no food and gear/skills were not different.

on a side note anet please bring back gvg as you mention during the beta instead of changing topic and say how much of a success spvp is.