Guild Wars 2

I think guards should be toned down a little so that thieves don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like thieves much, but my guard isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most thieves without a fight.

thats becouse thief is your main class, for me it the oposite guardian is the weakest class becouse i know how to counter or nullify their skills.

at the end it all depends wich weapons are u against, p/d high mobility build migh make a good match with a good medi guard as example, if fight a low mobility guard that thief has the obligation to play with the prey and end it any time.

Btw most thiefs relly on high crit builds and when the “only need high damage fever” hits them and they fight a high damage class they tend not to be clever and start stressing or run away.

I do have a thief…but she is not my main. I barely have 20 hours in her!

I have a couple of hundred hours in my guard though if I remember correctly.

I find it a challenge as a medi guard against most condi builds.

But thieves? almost no challenge most of the time.

You just play against the wrong thieves. Good thieves on vampire runes panic strike have a decent chance against med guards, in 1v1s offpoint anyways.

What do you mean ‘struggle" hard against a guardian? Head on? of course, thief is far more squishy against a guardian when it comes to headon confrontation, but that’s not how you play a thief. Head-on you will be dead against war, mesmer, necro or virtually everything else because that is not your class mechanics focus. Have you thought of another possible explanations of your failure to contain a guardian? I thought of 3’s: 1) you are…quite frankly… not there yet 2) You met some good players and 3) all of the above . Talking about struggle, how about us guardians desperately trying to catch thief who went in stealth which we have no direct mechanism against virtually every 3-5 seconds, having no intention to fight but rather trolling. Should we also ask to “tone down” thieves too?

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think guards should be toned down a little so that thieves don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like thieves much, but my guard isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most thieves without a fight.

If we’re going to go this route then Thieves should also be toned down so Mesmers and Necromancers don’t struggle that much against them either.(not saying they should nerf them). I’ve played every profession and most of them for a decent amount of time. Guardian can beat thieves but thieves can beat guardians as well assuming they both know how to play, and how both professions work. Most of the time the reason why a majority of theives get run over by medi guard is because they get out pressured and eat bursts they’re not supposed to and general lack of knowledge of what to expect, or if they’re playing SA they sit in stealth for a majority of the fight and allow medi CDs to come off.

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Ragnarox.9601:

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Pretty much this.

Thieves are one of the best, if not the best duelists in the game. Fortunately for us, there are more bad thieves than good.

Ragnarox.9601:

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Stahp with the arbitrary statistics. Guardian is the most forgiving zerker class. Blocks, involn, and every single utility heals you if you’re medi…

“lol yeah but teef can run away!” Yeah you’re right. But if theyre running, you must be winning. Use this time to reset for yourself, keep up sustained pressure, get into a spot that is hard for them to escape, etc etc.

In an unbuffed situation (no food, stacks, etc), with equally skilled players, many classes can beat thief if they play with their brain.

The people who cry “teef OP!” Have playstyle issues. Guardian in perticular seems to attract people that want easy mode. I know so many guardians who have no idea how to LoS range, jump dodge, or bate interrupts. If any one tried to play thief with out using those tactics they would be dead.

Drennon.7190:

Ragnarox.9601:

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Stahp with the arbitrary statistics. Guardian is the most forgiving zerker class. Blocks, involn, and every single utility heals you if you’re medi…

“lol yeah but teef can run away!” Yeah you’re right. But if theyre running, you must be winning. Use this time to reset for yourself, keep up sustained pressure, get into a spot that is hard for them to escape, etc etc.

In an unbuffed situation (no food, stacks, etc), with equally skilled players, many classes can beat thief if they play with their brain.

The people who cry “teef OP!” Have playstyle issues. Guardian in perticular seems to attract people that want easy mode. I know so many guardians who have no idea how to LoS range, jump dodge, or bate interrupts. If any one tried to play thief with out using those tactics they would be dead.

Dude ok then lets compare blocks to thieves infinite stealth. Medi guard have 1 block + 1 block (virtues), focus block if you equip it and heal skill shelter (30 sec cd) and RF. Any good thief will use that in its advantage and kill you slowly until you use all of your cd’s.

Good thieves never lose to guardians. Great thieves laugh in your face while bursting you down in seconds while you panically waste cd’s. (PVP)

In wvw is different story tho.

Ragnarox.9601:

-snip-

If you’re losing to thieves on medi guard in sPvP, then you’re being greatly outplayed. You are the closest thing to a hard counter that there is. If you’re just mashing all of your CDs while a thief is poking at you, then you’re not applying proper counter pressure.

Edit: PS there is no such thing as infinite stealth. Also, If they’re stealthed their not doing damage.

i’m a thief main – and i have never seen a post saying thieves should be getting weaker because we counter mesmer (due to the fact that we can constantly teleport after them on S/x or D/P and have the strong steal skill)

Medi Guards are doable for thieves, it’s just a lot of work and usually takes a lot of time
if you outplay them you win, otherwise you dont (unless you are able to burst them down) – same goes for mesmer/thief

Tarkan.5609:

i’m a thief main – and i have never seen a post saying thieves should be getting weaker because we counter mesmer (due to the fact that we can constantly teleport after them on S/x or D/P and have the strong steal skill)

Medi Guards are doable for thieves, it’s just a lot of work and usually takes a lot of time
if you outplay them you win, otherwise you dont (unless you are able to burst them down) – same goes for mesmer/thief

In a normal pvp fight a guardian beats a thief of equal skill unless it is something like hammer gs guardian which has less mobility and the thief decides to slow camp Sb to kill them via poison fields ( I should know I have hundreds of matches on thief and guardian, even though they are right down by necromancer in terms of how well I play with them QQ.)
Mesmer vs thief is different. A mesmer of even skill to me is easily destroyed by my thief due to the hard counter mechanic thief provides. All I have to do is not button mash.

its funny
as thief i hardly die to med guard
as guard i hardly die to a thief

:D
its really depends then
p/d condi or panic strike. group fight or 1v1 , good player or bad player , good day or bad day….

Despite how hard guards are to fight, a Pistol Dagger thief can still burst us in 2-3 seconds down to death. Guardians dont get to do that. Also if our 2 stun breaks are to much to handle for their multiple stuns, all they have to do is wait till we target somebody else and run in with judges intervention

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think guards should be toned down a little so that thieves don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like thieves much, but my guard isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most thieves without a fight.

I think thieves should be toned down a little so that mesmers don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like mesmers much, but my thief isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most mesmers without a fight.

This is an utterly ridiculous post that warrants no real constructive response. I don’t play my Guardian often as I main a Mesmer but Guardian’s are not too strong against any class. When you stop playing against people who just roll their tongue on their keyboard to play, then maybe you can make such claims on this forum that a class is too strong. Otherwise, you’re wasting everyone’s time by stating baseless claims other than you playing against people who keyboard turn.

phokus.8934:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think guards should be toned down a little so that thieves don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like thieves much, but my guard isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most thieves without a fight.

I think thieves should be toned down a little so that mesmers don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like mesmers much, but my thief isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most mesmers without a fight.

---

This is an utterly ridiculous post that warrants no real constructive response. I don’t play my Guardian often as I main a Mesmer but Guardian’s are not too strong against any class. When you stop playing against people who just roll their tongue on their keyboard to play, then maybe you can make such claims on this forum that a class is too strong. Otherwise, you’re wasting everyone’s time by stating baseless claims other than you playing against people who keyboard turn.

I’m not sure why you are hammering my post so hard, but will appreciate if you take your hate elsewhere.

Guard and Thief seem to be designed by the same person, so I’m sure the devs are aware of how different specs balance against each other and the overall profession vs profession balance. Consider that Guard has a spec that can kill Thieves and be a good counter to them, but also plenty that can’t. Guard also wasn’t just given an area reveal ability lightly, it’s all for a reason and factors into the greater picture.

Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Everyone should be toned down and should have one trait while everyone wields a greatstick that fires off at 1 range with infinite projectile speed. Some classes are designed to do better vs other classes, thats how stuff works.

@Drennon

The class with the lowest base HP (not mentioning highest armor because lets be honest, you’d need an upwards of 2.8-3k armor for you to notice an actual drop in damage taken) that survives purely off of blocks and small burst heals is an easy class? Thieves stealth and guards block. A thief that burns all of his initiative just to camp stealth eventually runs out and gets rolled. A guard that burns all of his blocks like a madman eventually runs out and gets rolled. I’ll admit, setting up guard DPS isn’t too hard, but guard was always about his active defenses. If a zerk guard doesn’t bait dodges and stun breaks, we’re reduced to auto attacking for another 20-30 seconds (don’t talk about the alternate weapon set, as that is simply a filler until the real burst is back up). Zerk guard is the most forgiving zerk class for a whole 10 seconds if you don’t manage your blocks.

Honestly, deal with it.

EremiteAngel.9765:

phokus.8934:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think guards should be toned down a little so that thieves don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like thieves much, but my guard isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most thieves without a fight.

I think thieves should be toned down a little so that mesmers don’t struggle that hard against them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like mesmers much, but my thief isn’t my main and yet when I play him, I walk over most mesmers without a fight.

---

This is an utterly ridiculous post that warrants no real constructive response. I don’t play my Guardian often as I main a Mesmer but Guardian’s are not too strong against any class. When you stop playing against people who just roll their tongue on their keyboard to play, then maybe you can make such claims on this forum that a class is too strong. Otherwise, you’re wasting everyone’s time by stating baseless claims other than you playing against people who keyboard turn.

I’m not sure why you are hammering my post so hard, but will appreciate if you take your hate elsewhere.

Baseless claims that are not substantiated to the slightest. Your post clearly shows a lack of understanding of this game and with Guardian and Thief. You also made no point in trying to point out any flaws but used a blanket statement to simply say that Guardians are too strong [against thieves].

Come up with a better argument for why Guardians are too strong rather than just complete nonsense and st the very least, put some thought into it.

If you’re going to make such claims, at least back it up with hard facts, and lay out what is wrong and what you want to see changed.

Thieves are too strong against too much classes. All zerker class (except guards)are out of meta for more than 2 years just due to thieves.

To make pvp landscape more interresting…I think guards must become a much more hard counter to thieves….you know the kind of hard counter thieves are for all other zerker professions. In that sense we should buff guards or nerf thieves hard because at this moment…guards are not an hard counter to thieves.

The best thieves hit a few times and back off, repeating as cooldowns are available. It reduces most of the damage they take from guardians. As thief, you need to bait out guardian cooldowns and then kill the guardian when his cooldowns are used up.

If you’re trying to face-tank a guardian on thief and hoping to kill them before they can land significant damage on you, you’re doing it wrong.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Everyone should be toned down and should have one trait while everyone wields a greatstick that fires off at 1 range with infinite projectile speed. Some classes are designed to do better vs other classes, thats how stuff works.

@Drennon

The class with the lowest base HP (not mentioning highest armor because lets be honest, you’d need an upwards of 2.8-3k armor for you to notice an actual drop in damage taken) that survives purely off of blocks and small burst heals is an easy class? Thieves stealth and guards block. A thief that burns all of his initiative just to camp stealth eventually runs out and gets rolled. A guard that burns all of his blocks like a madman eventually runs out and gets rolled. I’ll admit, setting up guard DPS isn’t too hard, but guard was always about his active defenses. If a zerk guard doesn’t bait dodges and stun breaks, we’re reduced to auto attacking for another 20-30 seconds (don’t talk about the alternate weapon set, as that is simply a filler until the real burst is back up). Zerk guard is the most forgiving zerk class for a whole 10 seconds if you don’t manage your blocks.

Honestly, deal with it.

I have 1000 hours on guard and about 1200 matches on it. So I think I know where I’m coming from. I’m not saying that guardian is OP or needs toned down, but it is the easiest zerker class there is.. It’s so forgiving.

Drennon.7190:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Everyone should be toned down and should have one trait while everyone wields a greatstick that fires off at 1 range with infinite projectile speed. Some classes are designed to do better vs other classes, thats how stuff works.

@Drennon

The class with the lowest base HP (not mentioning highest armor because lets be honest, you’d need an upwards of 2.8-3k armor for you to notice an actual drop in damage taken) that survives purely off of blocks and small burst heals is an easy class? Thieves stealth and guards block. A thief that burns all of his initiative just to camp stealth eventually runs out and gets rolled. A guard that burns all of his blocks like a madman eventually runs out and gets rolled. I’ll admit, setting up guard DPS isn’t too hard, but guard was always about his active defenses. If a zerk guard doesn’t bait dodges and stun breaks, we’re reduced to auto attacking for another 20-30 seconds (don’t talk about the alternate weapon set, as that is simply a filler until the real burst is back up). Zerk guard is the most forgiving zerk class for a whole 10 seconds if you don’t manage your blocks.

Honestly, deal with it.

I have 1000 hours on guard and about 1200 matches on it. So I think I know where I’m coming from. I’m not saying that guardian is OP or needs toned down, but it is the easiest zerker class there is.. It’s so forgiving.

95% of all meta classes are forgiving, thats why people run them
also dp panic strike thief is very very very easy and forgiving, arguably more than medi guard

Drennon.7190:

Ragnarox.9601:

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Stahp with the arbitrary statistics. Guardian is the most forgiving zerker class.

What do you mean by most? >50%?

Irony!

@booms

I will agree with that. But I’m still sticking to my original point, guardian counters thief. In a 1v1 situation, if the guardian loses to the thief, they were outplayed.

Svarty.8019:

Drennon.7190:

Ragnarox.9601:

Thieves win vs every class easy if you know to play it. (~70% winrate )
Guardians often die if they miss they burst or waste all of their CD’s.

Stahp with the arbitrary statistics. Guardian is the most forgiving zerker class.

What do you mean by most? >50%?

Irony!

How can you even add a percentage to that sentence? To say something is “better” does not necessarily apply a percentage to it. To place a numerical on that sentence is reallllyyy stretching.

Drennon.7190:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Everyone should be toned down and should have one trait while everyone wields a greatstick that fires off at 1 range with infinite projectile speed. Some classes are designed to do better vs other classes, thats how stuff works.

@Drennon

The class with the lowest base HP (not mentioning highest armor because lets be honest, you’d need an upwards of 2.8-3k armor for you to notice an actual drop in damage taken) that survives purely off of blocks and small burst heals is an easy class? Thieves stealth and guards block. A thief that burns all of his initiative just to camp stealth eventually runs out and gets rolled. A guard that burns all of his blocks like a madman eventually runs out and gets rolled. I’ll admit, setting up guard DPS isn’t too hard, but guard was always about his active defenses. If a zerk guard doesn’t bait dodges and stun breaks, we’re reduced to auto attacking for another 20-30 seconds (don’t talk about the alternate weapon set, as that is simply a filler until the real burst is back up). Zerk guard is the most forgiving zerk class for a whole 10 seconds if you don’t manage your blocks.

Honestly, deal with it.

I have 1000 hours on guard and about 1200 matches on it. So I think I know where I’m coming from. I’m not saying that guardian is OP or needs toned down, but it is the easiest zerker class there is.. It’s so forgiving.

You say that now that you actually know how to play the game, but a zerk ranger or warrior is farrrr easier to pull off as newbie vs another newbie zerk guard.

I can see where you’re coming from there. I made the assumption that we were talking two experienced players, on two different zerker classes, that understand how to properly counter the opposing class.

Drennon.7190:

I can see where you’re coming from there. I made the assumption that we were talking two experienced players, on two different zerker classes, that understand how to properly counter the opposing class.

If we’re talking two experienced players, then they shouldn’t be making mistakes to be forgiven for and lets be honest, with all of the mobility, CC, and stealth being the all-encompassing sustain/dps “boon” that it is, thief is far easier to play when you actually know how to play it whereas guard hits a limit thanks the lack of mobility.

When I was playing on my Guardian earlier, a Thief killed me within seconds, before I even had time to react. Granted this guy was no novice (and I’m pretty new to the Guardian class), but he had no problems taking my character down.

I guess you’d really need two pros facing off against each other to judge, but from what I’ve seen, Thieves can hold their own against Guardians no problem.

Drennon.7190:

@booms

I will agree with that. But I’m still sticking to my original point, guardian counters thief. In a 1v1 situation, if the guardian loses to the thief, they were outplayed.

Guard is only to strong against a thief that goes afk, mobility here is what will define the victor, and the p/d is the king of it, it migh strugle against guardian CC but if thief knows what he/she is doing will be just a matter of time, i could say if a p/d thief looses to a guard it is becouse he got outplayed.
Now for guardian that are non meditation they are far easy wins.

Aeolus.3615:

Drennon.7190:

@booms

I will agree with that. But I’m still sticking to my original point, guardian counters thief. In a 1v1 situation, if the guardian loses to the thief, they were outplayed.

Guard is only to strong against a thief that goes afk, mobility here is what will define the victor, and the p/d is the king of it, it migh strugle against guardian CC but if thief knows what he/she is doing will be just a matter of time, i could say if a p/d thief looses to a guard it is becouse he got outplayed.
Now for guardian that are non meditation they are far easy wins.

Show me one p/d thief that has success at a competitive level. Can’t do it?

Drennon.7190:

Aeolus.3615:

Drennon.7190:

@booms

I will agree with that. But I’m still sticking to my original point, guardian counters thief. In a 1v1 situation, if the guardian loses to the thief, they were outplayed.

Guard is only to strong against a thief that goes afk, mobility here is what will define the victor, and the p/d is the king of it, it migh strugle against guardian CC but if thief knows what he/she is doing will be just a matter of time, i could say if a p/d thief looses to a guard it is becouse he got outplayed.
Now for guardian that are non meditation they are far easy wins.

Show me one p/d thief that has success at a competitive level. Can’t do it?

define competitive level… they can do it on wvw, if ur talking the pvp tournaments i stopped following it at quite some time.
But like i said, the guard build a thief needs to be carefull is the medi guard.

@aeolus SPvP. WvW roaming is a terrible way to look at balance. I can one shot people on guardian/thief/ranger etc. This is do to the ridiculous stats that are achievable with food, guard stacks, sigils, runes that are unavailable to PvP. There is a reason that Dire/perplexity doesn’t exist in pvp. Gear/buff imbalance is what makes things like p/d successful in WvW. Not a class issue. With guard buffs, food, bloodlust, I have had 12k whirling wraths… Yet does anyone ever call whirling wrath OP? No.

Aeolus.3615:

Drennon.7190:

Aeolus.3615:

Drennon.7190:

@booms

I will agree with that. But I’m still sticking to my original point, guardian counters thief. In a 1v1 situation, if the guardian loses to the thief, they were outplayed.

Guard is only to strong against a thief that goes afk, mobility here is what will define the victor, and the p/d is the king of it, it migh strugle against guardian CC but if thief knows what he/she is doing will be just a matter of time, i could say if a p/d thief looses to a guard it is becouse he got outplayed.
Now for guardian that are non meditation they are far easy wins.

Show me one p/d thief that has success at a competitive level. Can’t do it?

define competitive level… they can do it on wvw, if ur talking the pvp tournaments i stopped following it at quite some time.
But like i said, the guard build a thief needs to be carefull is the medi guard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNXuS-gc14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDwUDJ4FmnA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MyMxCPEuIM

Decided to watch you videos. You talk about “p/d” thief, yet only ONE of those videos was p/d thief. One video was a terrible guardian, who was keyboard turning, fighting Caed. Caed has been competitive since the launch of this game. This video proved nothing. Another video’s opener showed a D/P thief fighting a guardian running signet of restoration… do i even need to go into detail about why this is bad? Lastly was a p/d thief running dire gear. Dire gear is the issue here, not class balance.

Any way, I’m done posting in this thread. Ya’ll would rather live with your delusion that thief counters guardian. Instead of striving to be better and to learn, you would rather just shout OP.

A simple fact that Guardian has an advantage over Thief but I would not say it’s a hard counter. Both of equal skill, the Guardian should win.

It’s fine just filtering as usual.

Honestly, fighting a good thief takes 10 min+ simply because they know when to avoid most of our burst+ constantly disengage. Yes, against less experienced thieves, a dps guard would win 9/10 fights because of all the damage negation and retaliation we have/ ability to burst them down quickly. The matches which I see for thief to win against a guard often take a long time.

If anything, I think a thief ultimately has a higher skill creep factor but regardless of that, dps guards still present a challenge for them + the landscape which they fight under is crucial as well. Too many times, all a guard had to do was round a corner when faking to flee and JI into GS combo.

Against shout guards, it’s just going to be a long fight lol. But if it’s a shout guard, expect an angry party close by.

i have 4k+ hours and 3k+ ranked on guardian and I think a guardian doesnt even win more than 70-30 vs equally skilled thieves since the panic strike build, but mostly because of improv and the fact that hammer guardian is weaker in duels.
in order to win at thief you need to :
land 1 mace crack
get 1 good improv (deceptions) proc

or

land 2 mace cracks and every steal

to win 100% as guardian you need to:
dodge every mace crack
not waste cds
land at least 1 hammer skill per swap (if you watch top guard vs top thief duels youll see guards have 3 intel sigil procs once scepter is up lmao)

A thief used steal on me (poison) and my smite condition crit him for 4k.

Because I feel the need to write an essay.

WvW
They’re good at peeling away in heat of battle, 1 good rez/rally skill, great 1v1 surprise ganking skills and focus targeting skills. That’s pretty much all they’re good for. To be honest, they perform a whole lot better in Conquest than WvW Zerg fests because it takes a skillful thief to focus target properly in large groups without getting downed in the process.

Conquest
Besides the fact they’re the best class for countering Mesmers and Rangers, backcapping and quickly adding a +1 in fights is the reason why they’re meta. The last two items alone has such a large influence in Conquest that most teams demand at least 1 thief in their compositions.

Duels
They’re arguably one of the best 1v1 classes around. This is due in part that they can easily outplay other classes by peeling away at any moment. They can also enter stealth for long periods of time to the point where they regen most of their health while also gain the majority of their cooldowns.
The only other classes that could take this 1v1 realm are Rangers and certain Mesmers. Granted, thieves have to try harder to beat these two classes but they can indeed do so. Arguably, more efficiently than others.

TL:DR
In a matchup, you really can’t say,
“If both people are equal of skill, than class X is victorious”
because there is no method to determine skill. The meta (and now, game modes) varies so much that it’s nearly impossible to say. In 1v1, (my specialty) I will say that it’s a 4:6 or 6:4 win/lose ratio when it comes to Guardian vs Thief. The balance really is there… though, you can’t say the same for other class matchups.

Honestly It is really hard for me to say which is right on this. On my guard, i rarely have any issues with thieves, and that all comes from previous WvW roaming experience, and honestly just fighting them so freaking much that I just got used to them and how to get past their abilities.

After playing my thief for just a little bit however, with just a basic trait set up and d/p s/d, I was honestly picking apart “meta” build guards, mostly because I knew exactly how to fight them. I didnt waste venom on aegis, I knew to get out and wait when focus shield went up, when to use dazes etc, etc. Honestly, I am starting to think that thieves greatest downfall vs guardians is the over use of stealth to lead into attacks, because it just becomes so freaking predictable, and with guardian there are so many ways to counter it, between blinds, blocks, and AoE. Any time I ever had an issue on my guard vs thieves, are s/d, simply because of all the evades.

Guardians countering Thieves is far less of a problem than the many classes/builds that Thieves counter.

Why? Because a Thief is far more mobile than a Guardian so can escape that counter. Those that a Thief counters are not as mobile as the Thief so don’t have the same luxury.

Sebrent.3625:

Guardians countering Thieves is far less of a problem than the many classes/builds that Thieves counter.

Why? Because a Thief is far more mobile than a Guardian so can escape that counter. Those that a Thief counters are not as mobile as the Thief so don’t have the same luxury.

Translation:

“Guardian’s have a tougher time fighting a thief than other classes.
Because Guardian’s are not as mobile as a thief compared to other classes.
The classes that lose to a thief are not as mobile as the Thief.”

Not true at all.
Guardian’s typically have an easier time fighting Thieves than other classes.
Also
I’ve seen a completely immobile class beat a higher mobile class.
No matter the mobility, it all comes down to execution… what you do in a certain situation.

Didn’t you make a thread in the PvP forums about ‘hardcounters’?

If you play like the typical thief that only ever attacks when backstab is up, of course you’ll get countered. Stop being predictable and change the way you fight. Stop basing all your dps on ONE attack. That’s a foolish decision, should and will be countered over and over again. If all you use is one or two attacks, all I need is one or two blocks/dodges.

Saiyan.1704:

Sebrent.3625:

Guardians countering Thieves is far less of a problem than the many classes/builds that Thieves counter.

Why? Because a Thief is far more mobile than a Guardian so can escape that counter. Those that a Thief counters are not as mobile as the Thief so don’t have the same luxury.

Translation:

“Guardian’s have a tougher time fighting a thief than other classes.
Because Guardian’s are not as mobile as a thief compared to other classes.
The classes that lose to a thief are not as mobile as the Thief.”

Not true at all.
Guardian’s typically have an easier time fighting Thieves than other classes.
Also
I’ve seen a completely immobile class beat a higher mobile class.
No matter the mobility, it all comes down to execution… what you do in a certain situation.

Your translation of my post is horribly incorrect. There is no need to translate it either given how very basic what I said is. Nothing in my earlier post said that Guardians have a harder time fighting Thieves, only that the Thieves are capable of escaping. It’s right there in my post in black and white.

When your build is hard-countered by another build you have two options:
(1) Fight that uphill battle
(2) Try to avoid that fight

The point of my post was to highlight that in the case where Guardian build hard-counters the Thief build, the both of these are viable options for the Thief.

However, when a Thief build counters another build, given the amazing mobility of a thief, option (2) is not often viable for those being countered by the Thief … hence the only option truly left to those hard-countered by the Thief build is to fight an uphill battle.

Steath and backstabs are thieves’ cards. You have the luxury to enter and exit fight whenever you want/can and can do supprised stun/damage burst, and dealing damage from a far with excellent mobility. If you let yourself get caught by a guard, the nortious slowmo class… well, perhaps, maybe, just maybe …you suck and need to LTP. And perhaps it’s possible that you were being outplayed by a much better players OR just maybe that the Guardian’s particular build is your natural enemy? Even IF assuming that Guardians always have easy time against thief even if he just closes his eyes and with random utilities, but you specifically target Guardians in this QQ, but not other classes, that means you can trump other classes, now your personal agenda is to take out the last and only natural enemy, no? Want to be at the top of the food chain or something? . Even when playing this “overpowered” guardian that OP speak of, I learn that not every encounters have good odd of winning. Personally, my natural enemies are any class that keep distances when appropriate, cripple/chill spamming and heavy conditions, but i don’t campaign to tone them down. Take personal responsibility once in a while and learn to navigate obstacles to win

There is a whole room at ArenaNet where they watch the match up results from sPvP in kitten near real time, aggregated across the whole game.

The signs something is out of whack that they’ll take action to correct come from those graphs, not from any “please nerf X” on the forums.

So evidently someone out there does just fine against guards with their thieves.

Nike.2631:

There is a whole room at ArenaNet where they watch the match up results from sPvP in kitten near real time, aggregated across the whole game.

The signs something is out of whack that they’ll take action to correct come from those graphs, not from any “please nerf X” on the forums.

So evidently someone out there does just fine against guards with their thieves.

Pics or room doesn’t exist.