[Guide] DPS Guardian for PVE
Noob question: against single targets, is scepter the higher dps weapon?
Smite is too buggy to land all of it’s strikes, often even on a single target ( unless it has a giant hit box ) – so it’ll never hit for it’s full potential.
It is the highest damage ranged weapon in the game, but it will lose out to reliability of the sword in most cases ( especially when facing more than one target )
Oh, ok. I asked cause I was testing dps builds on the invulnerable golem on the mists: AA plus smite was awsome. Thank you.
don’t get me wrong – Scepter is awesome when you can control the fight enough to make sure it lands everything.
The golem is a classic example of an enemy that doesn’t move, and has a large hit box
I see. Actually I am wondering if it is a good way to test anything. I got crap dps with an ele (Staff fire build) and mesmer (mantra build) autoatacking with sword and 3 sword clons was quite amazing. Brrr.
Great guide. I found it very usefull.
I have tried the GS / S+F build full zerker gear and trinkets. It was amazing DPS but I am not good enough to prevent dmg to down me that often and I ended up being frustrated. I tried the same build with Knight gear + zerker weapons & trinkets and while I was able to go through some personal mistakes I had again the issue of beng downed often especially in pugs, which is what I generally do.
So ultimately I decided to go back to Hammer build. But while I like to often go into support, I’d like to dish out as much DPS as possible.
So I was looking into this:
http://intothemists.com/guides/1550-jackhammer_guardian_dps_build
Is it any viable nowadays? if so is it worth?
Mostly I am interested in knowing if the rotation in that guide is correct.
Thanks in advance!
(edited by apollo.9817)
Quick question about GS specifically concerning WW usage since my math is limited: should i be using it against single target even though i skip a beat from gaining one more stack of Might with its 3rd attack chain?
If not, how many mobs justify using WW over auto-attack chain?
Quick question about GS specifically concerning WW usage since my math is limited: should i be using it against single target even though i skip a beat from gaining one more stack of Might with its 3rd attack chain?
If not, how many mobs justify using WW over auto-attack chain?
There isn’t an exact answer for this one. If you are running with an organized group you generally have might taken care of, so this isn’t really an issue. I personally break GS chain without skipping a beat, though if you stayed on the chain to finish it will only take an extra 1.5 seconds or so. No really a deal breaker.
And when you say single target, I think you mean like a boss? Example, Mage Crusher Arah P3. That is a perfect boss to do good rotations on.(except when you must deploy your wall and Shield of Avenger). But overall, yes WW on single target is the best in general. The trick is you must turn melee assist off, so you can get inside the enemy and ensure all the projectiles hit.
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Great guide. I found it very usefull.
I have tried the GS / S+F build full zerker gear and trinkets. It was amazing DPS but I am not good enough to prevent dmg to down me that often and I ended up being frustrated. I tried the same build with Knight gear + zerker weapons & trinkets and while I was able to go through some personal mistakes I had again the issue of beng downed often especially in pugs, which is what I generally do.
So ultimately I decided to go back to Hammer build. But while I like to often go into support, I’d like to dish out as much DPS as possible.
So I was looking into this:
http://intothemists.com/guides/1550-jackhammer_guardian_dps_buildIs it any viable nowadays? if so is it worth?
Mostly I am interested in knowing if the rotation in that guide is correct.Thanks in advance!
This is the hammer build I use in fractals and is in my guide so yes it is viable and worth it to run. It’s the max damage variation of the hammer core build of 15/15/0/20/10. I don’t know about the rotation. The whole point of running a hammer is for perma prot so it doesn’t make much sense to keep swapping. If you burst with gs you usually start with the gs burst I’m not sure why this started with hammer and you usually swap after you do a second WW though I usually just do 2-4 then swap for trash that will die fast.
i read over and over your guides i been using 10/25/0/10/25 but is all the slot triats situational. i was wanting to know if shouts or what is better. also, i see so much junk on youtube for like a 0/0/30/30/10 build that says its best for overall is this true i just want to set something that i can stick with for awhile without changing to to much im new to 80 no money and working on exotics thanks
For PVE, DPS is king. This guide will get your DPS up while providing a solid build. 0/0/30/30/10 is a very heavy “tanking” or WvW build; not meant for maximizing DPS.
Most PVE encounters hit hard enough anyway that you need to rely on blocks/dodges to survive. Many of the mechanics make the fights more challenging the longer the boss is alive. The more DPS you can push and faster you can take down enemies, the better.
Xystus Furtim – Human Theif
Server: Stormbluff Ilse
i read over and over your guides i been using 10/25/0/10/25 but is all the slot triats situational. i was wanting to know if shouts or what is better. also, i see so much junk on youtube for like a 0/0/30/30/10 build that says its best for overall is this true i just want to set something that i can stick with for awhile without changing to to much im new to 80 no money and working on exotics thanks
Regarding utilities, regardless of class you should always be thinking about swapping skills to fit the next pull or situation.
With the core dps build, you will never need 3 shouts in PVE. You’ll find Purging Flames and WoR being used a lot, along with SYG or Retreat. Again, it’s situational so swap as needed. For example, in CoE, there is no need to have SYG on your bar against Alpha. Retreat and PF yeah sure, so in situations where the 3rd skill is an unknown, use Bane Signet for more damage.
For ascended gear I’m thinking about going Knight for Chest, Head and Legs and Zerker for Gloves, Shoulder’s and boots with boon duration runes monk, water & traveler or runes of lyssa or Divinity unless someone thinks i should go for an alternative.
For ascended gear I’m thinking about going Knight for Chest, Head and Legs and Zerker for Gloves, Shoulder’s and boots with boon duration runes monk, water & traveler or runes of lyssa or Divinity unless someone thinks i should go for an alternative.
I would check the tradeoff of stats vs crit damage before you decide since the trinkets didn’t follow the exotic tradeoffs. I would stick with scholar or ranger runes as suggested in the guide. Boon duration isn’t worth it since if you run hammer you will have perma prot without the runes and the whole goal of boons is using the right ones at the right times so you shouldn’t really need it extended that much and lose out on dps. Lyssa isn’t worth it for a pve guard and all stat gear/runes just aren’t good.
How will the changes from the patch change this build? Just overall better and no adjustment needed or no change at all
How will the changes from the patch change this build? Just overall better and no adjustment needed or no change at all
No changes will be needed. The gs + sword/focus build will be stronger. The DPS rotation might change slightly given sword got a buff, but I’m not sure what would be the optimal rotation yet. I’m wondering what tests were done to find the current one.
Any advice for ascended armor? I saw that Nike is recommending a mix of berserker/assassin’s for warrior and was wondering if some kind of mix would be optimal for guardian or if I should stick to full berserker.
Any advice for ascended armor? I saw that Nike is recommending a mix of berserker/assassin’s for warrior and was wondering if some kind of mix would be optimal for guardian or if I should stick to full berserker.
For a Guardian it depends if you are using Right Hand Strength or not. There are a lot of variables to consider because Guardians look a lot different stat-wise when using 1hs or hammer, but for what it’s worth I’m going full berserker on my Guardian and Mesmer.
Zerk/Sin Mix:
Warrior
Ranger
Full Zerk:
Thief
Mesmer (debatable, but Full zerk allows you to use precision food whereas Sin mix requires power food , which is more expensive)
Guardian (also debatable, for build not using RHS, 2 pieces of Sin [helm+chest] is optimal, with RHS full zerk. since the difference is miniscule I’m just going full zerker)
Elementalist
Engineer
…
Good to know. Thank you for the reply!
“No changes will be needed. The gs + sword/focus build will be stronger. The DPS rotation might change slightly given sword got a buff, but I’m not sure what would be the optimal rotation yet. I’m wondering what tests were done to find the current one.”
Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here.
The gs/ s-f build will become stronger (higher DPS) but the hammer build is still what you use for high level FOTM?
To be honest: At current fractals I don’t see a real point in running the hammer build/ using perma protection.
While it can be useful if running with PuGs I don’t really need it when running with an experienced team.
Only time I miss it a bit is when I get dredge but that can still be made up with dodging etc.
Maybe it will change with future new levels.
My question is:
With new ascended armour: Any changes for gear?
I pulled an assassins armour box from fracs as well as a crafted zerker chest.
Nike changed his build for war.
Would it also be beneficial to swap out a few Zerker pieces on guardian?
If yes: only on DPS build/ hammer build? Or on both?
I would calculate it myself but I really suck at it and all the known build calculators dont have the ascended weapons/armours in it.
All Assuming 5 Boons, Optimal stacks, best in slot food, warrior banners, 25 might
10/30/0/5/25 Zerker: 21,109
10/30/0/5/25 3 Sin: 21,127
10/25/0/10/25 Zerker: 19,057
10/25/0/10/25 3 Sin: 19,059
Hammer Builds
15/15/0/20/20 Zerker: 15,499
15/15/0/20/20 3 Sin: 15,514
10/25/0/25/10 Zerker: 16,741
10/25/0/25/10 3 Sin: 16,748
My initial guess was wrong, even in RHS builds 3 assassins pieces are optimal.
Master of math!
Well, that’s not even a 0,1% boost in dmg if I am correct.
It would be most beneficial for the 15/15 Hammerbuild (0,096%) and 10/30 DPS (0,085%).
Too bad I already crafted my zerker chest but with this minor boost I guess I will craft the sin chest someday when I am bored.
Thank you Nike
Unless people are crying over 0.01%-0.09% more dps, I’m sticking to full zerk.
Yes the differences are irrelevantly tiny, but for folks who haven’t purchased any pieces yet, its worth knowing.
Head, chest, legs Assassin; shoulders, gloves, boots Zerker.
Xystus Furtim – Human Theif
Server: Stormbluff Ilse
I guess I am a bit torn. I pug a lot for fractals. I don’t have a steady group to run with. That DPS on GS / S-F looks amazing and it’s clear that hammer doesn’t even come close (I know it’s not supposed it — it’s for protection)
Thanks Nike for running those numbers, very interesting.
@Nike, I had no idea RHS would be that good, correct me if i’m wrong, this assumes sword camping, not using greatsword for burst? Would this be using perception or bloodlust sigils?
Does it include Unscathed Contender?
Those aren’t DPS numbers, they are effective power. Don’t compare the hammer build numbers to the s/f numbers. The hammer numbers are for comparing to other hammer builds and vice versa.
Edit:
Does not assume UC.
Again those aren’t DPS numbers, its EP. The RHS build would still want to use the GS burst, but you don’t want to camp GS auto to get a second WW since the sword autoattack is just way better than gs auto.
How much (%) DPS are the hammer builds behind GS+S/F?
Oh, and possibel another build u can play if u have more then 1 guard and enough reflection and/or problems to keep UC up.
And the group is missing a bit might and Vul (both are at 20 or less stacks average)
15/25/0/30/0
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQFASlUg6CXGSKEf4EhNDAAw6DxD7BG9I8B
Is Assasins gear (3pieces) still better if u have spotter (150 precision) too?
And did u realized that 100% critchance does not mean all hits will do critical dmg? U can have more then 100% and still some noncrit attacks…
(edited by Norjena.5172)
Is Assasins gear (3pieces) still better if u have spotter (150 precision) too?
Probably not for the RHS build, but still true for the others.
And did u realized that 100% critchance does not mean all hits will do critical dmg? U can have more then 100% and still some noncrit attacks…
That has been disproven actually. Dekeyz spent 30 minutes on two different nights in the mist with a 104% chance to crit build and never failed to crit once. I no longer believe in the theory of a hardcap at 99% chance to crit.
I do, however, believe that the projectiles from WW might have some special property that prevents them from being able to crit.
As far as the hammer builds go vs the sword, they are least 15-20% behind simply based on % damage modifiers and pure dps stats.
(edited by Nike Porphyrogenita.8137)
Is Assasins gear (3pieces) still better if u have spotter (150 precision) too?
Probably not for the RHS build, but still true for the others.
And did u realized that 100% critchance does not mean all hits will do critical dmg? U can have more then 100% and still some noncrit attacks…
That has been disproven actually. Dekeyz spent 30 minutes on two different nights in the mist with a 104% chance to crit build and never failed to crit once. I no longer believe in the theory of a hardcap at 99% chance to crit.
I do, however, believe that the projectiles from WW might have some special property that prevents them from being able to crit.
As far as the hammer builds go vs the sword, they are least 15-20% behind simply based on % damage modifiers and pure dps stats.
Thanks for your feedback, but mists golems are lvl 80, a lot of bosses/mobs (probably) not. So crit depression outside of the mists is still possibel.
But still something that is not logical for me.
10/30/0/5/25 Zerker: 21,109
10/30/0/5/25 3 Sin: 21,127
10/25/0/10/25 Zerker: 19,057
10/25/0/10/25 3 Sin: 19,059
Why is the benefit from 3 Sin pieces with RHS more then without?
I think it should be less, same OK, but higher? I can´t see the point. Probably a error in your effective power calculation cause it´s i real dps simulation.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
Why is the benefit from 3 Sin pieces with RHS more then without?
I think it should be less, same OK, but higher? I can´t see the point. Probably a error in your effective power calculation cause it´s i real dps simulation.
Probably an error on your assumptions more than an error on my spreadsheet.
Edit: I remember what it was now. With the 10/25 builds the optimal food for each was different. If I had kept the food constant you would have seen a bigger gap. Since the 10/25 zerker used a different food than 10/25 mixed the results came out in a way you might not expect. But to be clear, the numbers I posted are the best possible numbers with each configuration.
(edited by Nike Porphyrogenita.8137)
“No changes will be needed. The gs + sword/focus build will be stronger. The DPS rotation might change slightly given sword got a buff, but I’m not sure what would be the optimal rotation yet. I’m wondering what tests were done to find the current one.”
Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here.
The gs/ s-f build will become stronger (higher DPS) but the hammer build is still what you use for high level FOTM?
The gs sf build was always stronger than hammer. It’s still worth using hammer for fractal though since the perma prot and cc isare worth it. The hammer build still does good damage. I run hammer for fractals and the gs sf build everywhere else. We used to have 2 guards in the party and run 1 hammer and 1 gs sf. I just go with 1 now and run hammer.
How much (%) DPS are the hammer builds behind GS+S/F?
Oh, and possibel another build u can play if u have more then 1 guard and enough reflection and/or problems to keep UC up.
And the group is missing a bit might and Vul (both are at 20 or less stacks average)
15/25/0/30/0
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQFASlUg6CXGSKEf4EhNDAAw6DxD7BG9I8B
I’m not really sure if there is a way to tell the % diff since they are different weapon setups. When people compare the builds it’s usually the same weapon sets. If you have 2 guardians in the group you should have at least 1 run the gs + s/f build. We used to have 2 for fractals and run 1 hammer and the other gs + s/f. I would suggest that or just 2 gs + s/f for dungeons other then fractals if you stack guardians and don’t need the prot. The gs + s/f will provide more vuln with the 3 weapons skills doing rotations on top of the virtue. You should put 10 in virtues.
(edited by obal.3218)
PS – quickmode math because I know Obal will be curious. Hammer 15/15/0/20/20 under the same situation as above except for prec/crit dmg food and precision oil comes out at roughly 5500dps thanks to the assumed base dps of the auto attack being a whopping 520 (296+333+370 + 5 ticks of 185 for the symbol = 1924 / 3.7 seconds = 520 base dps with a modifier of 9554EP/916=10.43 ). It probably increases with mighty blow. Not too shabby, but still 20-25% less than sword.
Thanks for checking. I’m curious to know what it would be with the 15/25/0/20/10 build which is what I run.
6143dps according to the math used above but with the spec altered slightly. It’s not that far off at all actually, I’m impressed. I had a hunch that after the hefty WoP buff it would be a good bet for dps, didn’t think it would be that close though.
With UC or without? Traited WoR is strong but not a must have everywhere.
Could u calculate a 10/25/0/25/10 (Hammer) with UC? Seems to be pretty strong.
Nice to see how diffrent yours and Nikes numbers are, who is right now? ( i think Nike picked up the 15/15/0/20/20 build? this could be a solution)
MH sword alone is boring…stronger Zealot´s Defense and/or instant 2 (or lower CDs) would be much more fun to play. And as u said, torch and shield are sucking hard (PvE).
Even warriors pure axe is funnier to play…
And Mighty blow, is it now a dps increase or decrease?
" It probably increases with mighty blow."
Can someone clear it up?
Thanks alot for spending your time.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
I tried it with 15/25/0/20/10 with no runes or trinket on the golem and got the same time doing mighty blow then nothing but auto and mighty blow → 2 aa chains → mighty blow. Not waiting for the 2nd chain was a loss.
Ugh. I just noticed some mistakes around the night sigil and Radiance X. Numbers aren’t too far off but I’m not happy enough with them for the forums, so I’ll delete and redo later. Apologies.
(edited by fadeaway.2807)
tldr:
Zerker gear, scholar runes, night/force sigils,25 might, 100% fury, 180 prec spotter, 170 prec banner, 15% crit dmg banner, pwr/crit dmg food, sharpening stone, 5% virtuous power.
10/30/0/5/25
2h 12685ep = 13.848 mod
1h 15542ep = 16.967 mod
1h + 2h hybrid:
(1036+1036+1016+(414*9)) = 6814 over 14 seconds.
6814 * 13.848 = 94360
(414*10) = 4140 over 10 seconds.
4140 * 16.967 = 70243
94360 + 70243 = 164603 over 24 seconds = 6858dps.
1h by itself:
414*16.967 = 7024dps.
15/15/0/20/20
10700ep / 916 = 11.68 mod
11.68 * 520 = 6074dps
15/25/0/20/10
12149ep / 916 = 13.26 mod
13.26 * 520 = 6896dps
Nike’s 1h build ep (21109) is 26% higher than his dps hammer build ep (16741).
My 1h build ep (15542) is 27.9% higher than my dps hammer build ep (12149).
Looks close enough to me, I suspect the dps gap is quite small. Greatsword needs help, even the burst isn’t enough to convince me that swapping to it from 1h is a good idea.
I spent a few hours testing in the mists. Cause im bad in math and there are too much diffrent numbers.
I changed my build to disable rnd factors (fiery wrath and radiance 25 in groups both should be always active with all tested builds)
So i used this builds.
GS + S/F
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAsdBoQyZUgAg1DA4g8nqCAAuAA
(testet a lot of times
(testet without radiance power and RHS too)
Hammer
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASGoQyKUgWKAgDqqAAgzAA8IA
Symbolic Exposure + Hammer AA was at first equal dps to gs only, cause of Vul and always active radiance power…so i had to disable these traits.
No neckless, 5% dmg sigil (5% ond sword/f to sigils it stacked) no runes 100-100 dmg weapons.
Killing times “heavy golem”
GS only ~ 48 sec (i tested GS with 15 hits WW and multi hits binding blade and without, GS was always the superior weapon)
Sword only (with RHS=double critchance in my setup) ~ 55 sec
GS + S/F rotation ~ 41 sec
In groups u can add both radiance power and fiery wrath, these testes are compareable.
Hammer 10/25/0/20/10 (with UC!) endurance full
AA only ~ 58 sec
MB, AA, AA, MB ~ 58 sec so u´re right MB or not it doesn´t rly matter… if we can trigger a nice combofield MB should be a good choice.
At the end, sword triggerd radiace power sometimes, hammer not and endurance was full, so i think hammer=1h word or a little bit better.
But GS is superior even if 2 and 5 won´t hit multiple times. GS+Sword rotation is still the best.
Sword AA is only about 5% better then GS AA + WW + Symbol + bindig blade (can hit multiple times) the sword alone can´t be better.
Sry for my bad english, if u don´t trust me, make some tests for your own. Im pretty sure my numbers are correct and u have some mistakes in your calculations.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
But GS is superior even if 2 and 5 won´t hit multiple times. GS+Sword rotation is still the best.
Sword AA is only about 5% better then GS AA + WW + Symbol + bindig blade (can hit multiple times) the sword alone can´t be better.
Can anyone with the excel damage calculator confirm is GS+Sword is still the top damage now that sword damage multiplier is 10%?
Rotation was 10-15% better, sword got only 5% more.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
Assuming two ww at 1036 base dmg, 1 symbol at 1016 and 9 secs of 414 auto Dps over a 14 second gs swap period followed by 10 secs of 1h auto at 416 base Dps.. And taking the base dmg modifiers in my previous post which can be replicated easily using effective power style websites if you’re not lazy.. Simply sticking with 1h is better single target.
It is very close though, and possibly even comes down to the use of night and force sigil vs just night or how many unaccounted ww projectiles hit.
Or you could use the foolproof testing method of attacking golems. Hmm.
This is not a answer and helps nobody. U can calculate everything and it doesn´t matter if ingame tests tell something diffrent.
Hammer nearly equal sword+GS dps? Not in hundred years. No ingame test can confirm it, golem or fullbuffed in Arah hammer is behind by far. Same for the 1handed sword.
It´s not something about 2% it´s much more.
And RHS is a bad trait, it´s better to get nearly 100% critchance without it for GS and Sword and use the traitpoints for something better. Traited power signet or critical dmg which is useful for both weapons.
And u can do multiple hits with gs 5 and 2 often so your calculations are only useful for a few bosses ingame. GS 5 DoT is missing too.
I´ll try to get some Vet Risen Killing times fullbuffed tomorrow. Im pretty sure the numbers will be similar to my golemtests.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
I have no idea why you would not take 1hs. With full zerker gear, scholar runes, fury, ranger spotter, banner, precision oil, precision critical dmg food and 25 Radiance you will not hit 100 crit chance. You’ll be close to it.. Like 97%.
Don’t think of it as using 5 trait points for a few extra crit chance.. It allows you to use 200 per or pwr/crit dmg food and sharpening stone instead of oil (or a potion). Well worth it.
Sry for typos, on phone.
The main advantage of RHS is stacking Bloodlust instead of Perception.
RHS doesnt effect reflects and non 1h weapon skills. Which is why its better to stack perception and use the traits elsewhere in most situations.
The only two builds for guard I use are 10/25/0/10/25 and 20/25/0/0/25. RHS is overated.
Shout cooldown trait is overrated. Zealous blade is not good.
Its better than having some useless extra crit chance on 1 skill. The extra power is good aswell. I guess another option would be 15/25/0/5/25 but 15 in zeal doesnt get much use out of gs.