Guild Wars 2

Because you cant fit 2 gs2’s in the rotation that way.

Fror.2163:

obal.3218:

Hammer Build
[…]

• DPS Rotation (Hammer + Greatsword) = GS2 -> GS4 -> GS3 -> GS5 if no pull is needed -> GS auto until GS2 is up -> GS2 -> Swap to Hammer and do 3 AA chains (If need to dodge or use Mighty Blow then complete current chain while swap becomes available and swap) -> repeat GS and Hammer rotation.
  […]

Why GS2 -> GS4 -> GS3 and not GS4 -> GS3 -> GS2 to inflit several stacks of vulnerability before our bursty GS2?

GS auto is weak compared to other weapons. By doing WW first you only have to wait about 2s longer after swap is available to use it again then swap to something else for a better auto attack while gs 2-4 recharge. You will have to camp GS auto for too long to get much out of a second WW by using it last. You will have others in your group inflicting vuln as well as using F1 as soon as you start WW.

Hey obal, great guide as usual. Out of curiosity why do you not run rhs in your s/f builds? Especially the 20 25 0 0 25 that you mainly use even pre-nerf? Sorry if it’s already been asked search function on this forum doesn’t work for me.

InfinitySoul.9240:

Hey obal, great guide as usual. Out of curiosity why do you not run rhs in your s/f builds? Especially the 20 25 0 0 25 that you mainly use even pre-nerf? Sorry if it’s already been asked search function on this forum doesn’t work for me.

This is because the GS+Sw/Focus skill rotations is our max dps. So by getting more power plus 5% more damage on GS benefits our overall dps, more than getting some 5% overall crit chance, and 20% more crit chance for our Sw.

looky here:
http://s27.postimg.org/nf571pco3/guarddps.jpg

original post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-dps-numbers-for-various-builds/first

It’s like Cat said above. RH strength wasn’t as great as people thought it was. It only buffs sword 1-3 and nothing else. There was just no better option to put the last 5 points to when people felt the need to put 5 into honor for vigorous precision and didn’t feel the need for shout cd. There isn’t any need for vigorous precision which will be worse and with the ferocity update RH strength will be even worse as well. The 20/25/0/0/25 is and will be the best choice.

Hey, I’m wondering why you go 25 in virtues…

I altered ur 20 25 0 0 25 build a bit and I find it dealing much more damage.

I currently run on 20 25 15 0 10.

15 in Valor for extra precision and +15% crit damage (which I find more useful than the +8% damage from 25 in Virtues -> you only get +8 dmg if u actually have all boons on you which usually isn’t the case).

I kept 10 in Virtues though for reduced concentration recharge (which i sometimes swap for +20% dmg while under aegis).

This are the stats I get using 20 25 15 0 10 (Stats in bold are new, stats in () are old):
Power: 2290 (2290)
Precision: 2110 (2050)
Toughness: 1175 (1025)
Vitality: 1025 (1025)
Crit Dmg: 86% (71%)
(Stats are affected by Master Maintenance Oil and Omnomberry Pie, they are also slighlty affected by WvW world buffs, thus why I rounded them from xxx4> -> 5 and from xxx6< -> 5 … Also, the stats are purely from exotic weapons and armor, only trinkets are ascended)

Although, by putting 15 to Valor I do realize I loose condi removal on Virtue but with an extra block and more toughness I suppose it compensates that extra condi removal every ~50 seconds from virtue.

Something to note. Its better to go for 10/25/0/10/25 instead of 10/30/0/5/25 most of the time because shout cooldown can really help with dps if you are using Save Yourselves. This is particularly important when using reflects (eg. lupi solo).

klemen.8439:

[…]

It’s simply a tradeoff between DPS and support. Your build will usually yield a bit more DPS (will be around 2-3 % more, counting the standard 5 boons for PotV), but has significantly reduced supportive capabilities.

First of all: Great guide!

How would you rate my tweaked version of your “Balanced Version” 10/25/0/10/25 with a bit more survival?: 0/25/0/20/25

What I don’t have:

• - 100 Power
• 5p: Zealot’s Speed (Create a Symbol of Wrath when you are struck while below the health threshold)
• 10p: Fiery Wrath (10% more damage against burning foes)

What I have instead:

• +100 Vitality (1000 HP)
• 15p: Selfless Daring (The end of your dodge roll heals nearby allies.)
• 20p: Two-Handed Mastery (Rechardge of 2H-skills -20%)

Here the whole build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR8dlUgiC3FSHEf4ESODRCBtZAQHEmCMKjA-jACBYfCZkfQUBDZOzUZNPVQs4qIas6aYKXER1SBExwI-e

Greetings.

Honor stops being good after 10 for GS + Sword/Focus builds and 20 for Hammer builds. The 2H mastery trait is a waste since it doesn’t help the dps rotations. You gain 1k hp and a small heal which won’t add much to your survival and lose a 10% damage multiplier which is huge.

I put up a new video guide to account for the upcoming changes.

Would Superior Runes of Strength be a viable choice (5% damage if might is up), if Scholar is too expensive or would you still suggest Ranger, especially with the ferocity stuff happening? I figured since Ranger is prec/crit% it wouldn’t be as good as straight power anymore but I haven’t really looked into it.

Sigils go on weapons. Scholar and ranger are runes. Sigil of strength is pretty weak on almost every class, stick to force/night/slaying sigils.

spoj.9672:

Sigils go on weapons. Scholar and ranger are runes. Sigil of strength is pretty weak on almost every class, stick to force/night/slaying sigils.

I meant runes, not sigils. It’s 6am my bad ahaha

At the moment I would suggest ranger runes if you dont want to spend so much on scholar.

Rather ruby orbs. Didn’t they announce they’d fix ranger runes in the big balance patch? So I wouldn’t waste my money on something that’s going to be made useless. Either directly scholar or wait till the patch, I guess some new runes might at least become interesting … if they don’t screw up, ofc.

We could end up spending loads of gold either way.

True, it’ mostly guesswork right now. Maybe a miracle happens and they manage to produce something halfway worthwile – at least the strength runes preview sounded useful.

I added new fractal guides to the top of the guide. I have a few more left to record still. This is the one time I hope for dredge…

CptAurellian.9537:

True, it’ mostly guesswork right now. Maybe a miracle happens and they manage to produce something halfway worthwile – at least the strength runes preview sounded useful.

That’s why I asked if they would be worth getting, in people’s opinion. Of course it’s all guesswork but, second opinions never hurt :P

Well, for my guardian, I’d say no even after the buff. Our long lasting might sources are too rare and the frequent ones have too short duration for might duration to matter. Though for my ele, those runes will be quite interesting in a LH build.

“Honor stops being good after 10 for GS + Sword/Focus builds and 20 for Hammer builds.”

Why does honor stop being good after 20? For PVE I play a version of your max DPS Hammer build (your build is 15/25/0/20/10). I run something similar, 15/25/0/25/5.

The extra 5 in honor adds another 10% damage multiplier whenever endurance is less than 100% (it’s not hard to keep that bonus in play the majority of the time). You lose master of consecrations, which is situational. I also drop your torch trait in radiance, and pick up powerful blades to run with a Hammer/Sword-Focus.

Here’s my build (using your runeset, which is what I’m working toward): http://tinyurl.com/nrtvfye

It’s not a big change, but I’m just curious why honor stops being good after 20 for hammer builds. You clearly know more about theorycraft than I do, so I’m wondering what I’m missing.

Astraeos.8970:

“You lose master of consecrations, which is situational.

What content do you run to not need MoC?

I run dungeons: AC, CM, SE mostly.

Don’t get me wrong. Consecrations are often useful, but they are also often on cooldown. The 10% bonus DPS from elusive power is up whenever you’re under 100% endurance.

With the version of the max hammer DPS I use, I lose some uptime on consecrations (when I slot them), but I gain a 10% damage multiplier for the hammer (and it’s symbol of protection), and two 10% damage multipliers for the sword. I also pick up utility with focus. Basically, more hammer DPS and swapping the utility of extra consecration uptime for Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

I think, DPS aside, the added uptime for WoR provided by MoC << than WoR without MoC + Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

But utility aside, this is a DPS thread, and that build was called out as the “max DPS hammer” build. My point was that the change should increase DPS.

Astraeos.8970:

I run dungeons: AC, CM, SE mostly.

Don’t get me wrong. Consecrations are often useful, but they are also often on cooldown. The 10% bonus DPS from elusive power is up whenever you’re under 100% endurance.

With the version of the max hammer DPS I use, I lose some uptime on consecrations (when I slot them), but I gain a 10% damage multiplier for the hammer (and it’s symbol of protection), and two 10% damage multipliers for the sword. I also pick up utility with focus. Basically, more hammer DPS and swapping the utility of extra consecration uptime for Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

I think, DPS aside, the added uptime for WoR provided by MoC << than WoR without MoC + Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

But utility aside, this is a DPS thread, and my point was that the change should increase DPS.

This isn’t just a DPS thread though. Its a DPS guardian thread. It’s about bringing the dps while bringing what a guardian should bring.

Example highest DPS is 20/30/20/0/0 build. But the preferred is 20/25/0/0/25 because it brings the proper utilities for the team. Also, you really shouldn’t have that low endurance damage buff that often with vigor and the hammer’s long AA chain. You are up right most of the fights with that bad boy.

Having said that, you will appreciate the MoC more when you get into high level fractals and arah. That 20% for MoC is stupidly strong. Its 20% longer duration and 20% shorter CD. <3 <3

Astraeos.8970:

“Honor stops being good after 10 for GS + Sword/Focus builds and 20 for Hammer builds.”

Why does honor stop being good after 20? For PVE I play a version of your max DPS Hammer build (your build is 15/25/0/20/10). I run something similar, 15/25/0/25/5.

The extra 5 in honor adds another 10% damage multiplier whenever endurance is less than 100% (it’s not hard to keep that bonus in play the majority of the time). You lose master of consecrations, which is situational. I also drop your torch trait in radiance, and pick up powerful blades to run with a Hammer/Sword-Focus.

Here’s my build (using your runeset, which is what I’m working toward): http://tinyurl.com/nrtvfye

It’s not a big change, but I’m just curious why honor stops being good after 20 for hammer builds. You clearly know more about theorycraft than I do, so I’m wondering what I’m missing.

You won’t be dodging at most trash mobs and you have vigor for when you do dodge so the multiplier isn’t used for a lot. Sword/focus should only be used for harder bosses and such where the extra blocks are needed. I do swap powerful blades in when I use a sword on swap. Greatsword would be your go to weapon for swaps to burst for everything else. If your not going to bring master of consecrations then 25/25/0/20/0 would be the best choice but it’s too good to give up for most content. You get the GS multiplier, 100 more power, and 10% symbols which is where a lot of your DPS with hammer comes from.

i like it a lot obal, very nice thank you, any alternative on the runes beside scholar?, and have any idea on wvw? haha im a fans of capt tennel hehe, thank you very much

Ranger runes are better than scholar if you don’t manage to stay above 90 % for at least 50 % of the time. However, they will be made useless with the ferocity patch as they’re going to fix the 6th bonus. Anyway, that patch will probably change quite a lot and might open new possibilities, but right now, that’s it.

I would just wait for the patch to see before dumping gold. Like Cpt said above Ranger Runes would be the best second choice but they will be bad after the patch. You can just cheap out and go with ruby orbs until the patch. I don’t WvW so I can’t help you there.

I like adding the extra 15points into Honor instead of Radiance in fractals for extra survivability running with Greatsword. You get an extra 10% dmg increase with Elusive power and you can go with Two handed mastery for shorter cd on greatsword.

Trait build i use is, 20/0/0/20/20. This is mostly for pugs whereas stacking isn’t always possibility.

Blind spam with 15 in Radiance is pretty much the best thing you can be doing in fractals assuming you don’t have a Thief. Also, points in Radiance are a pretty big DPS increase. I don’t see why you need 20 in Virtues for Fractals since there are almost no conditions. The 10/25/0/20/10 fractal-hammer build is pretty much amazing.

How are superior sigils of fire?

Damage multiplier sigils are more useful. Fire sigil procs also adds more particle effects that make enemy attacks less visible.

First, thanks for the guide, been a nice read.

I’ve been playing about a month now, and really enjoying the game, but I’ve been doing support guardian. Which I love, and I see a noticeable difference between me doing it well and not in our groups overall survival. So while I have seen many say it’s useless From what I have seen it’s far from that, but, I do know the general rule in MMOs and most games in general at that. You only need so much defense, then it’s time to stack the damage. So I want to try the other side see if I can master it, and at least it’d give me options.

my normal setup is soldier gear with buff duration runes and everything is focused in that direction, and I’m not looking to abandon that style of play, it works VERY well in my preset group.

My DPS set is Knights with ruby/beryl orbs, now I know it’s far from perfect but I just started scrapping it together. I figured I wanted to make sure I could do it before I dropped too much gold in that direction.

So to get to the questions though.

FIrst, if I understand it when I go berserk gear I won’t have a defense advantage compared to the warrior in the group, so we will share agro more right?

Second, Is it normal to feel like a glass cannon? With my soldier set it’s darn hard to kill me, with this set I have virtue of resolve and my normal heal (usually shelter). Is that really it? is there something I’m missing. I realize I have aegis as well but without the trait that’s not healing me. So right now It’s a pain keeping myself up, unlike my support build where I’m easy and I focus on keeping everyone else up as well (and above 90%). I’m still grabbing initial agro in the stack, still getting rocked, but I don’t have the tools to keep myself up, what am I missing?

And the last question is, do you have a less optimal video of you using this in a dungeon? Preferably the hammer build. I ask because I have actually never done cadacus yet so I was completely lost watching that one. I’d love to see an AC or TA run. And I say less optimal because I’m sure you’d agree, less time taking hits makes it easier… that’s why you stack damage. So my group simply won’t match what yours likely will. I know it’s a bit odd “please don’t play as well as you do” but for learning purposes it’d be nice.

My group is clearing the normal fast dungeon paths in like 10 mins each for the most part. We just time it with skale venoms, if we only need 1 in the dungeon it’s a good run. But I’m always looking to improve so if I can go to damage and we can live, that’d be nice. At least having the damage build in my back pocket as an option is what I’m looking for, but can’t help but feel I’m just too squishy currently, so any help would be nice. Been playing 26 days now, having fun, but so much to learn.

If I want to change the GW+sword/focus build for just GW ( I’m lazy :P), what should I change and is it a major difference ?

Jerus.4350:

my normal setup is soldier gear with buff duration runes and everything is focused in that direction, and I’m not looking to abandon that style of play, it works VERY well in my preset group.

Using the right boons a the right times is better than buffing boon duration. If you use hammer you will already achieve perma prot from writ.

Jerus.4350:

My DPS set is Knights with ruby/beryl orbs, now I know it’s far from perfect but I just started scrapping it together. I figured I wanted to make sure I could do it before I dropped too much gold in that direction.

So to get to the questions though.

FIrst, if I understand it when I go berserk gear I won’t have a defense advantage compared to the warrior in the group, so we will share agro more right?

Keeping knights is fine. I would suggest getting zerker trinkets and and keeping the rest of your gear as is if you want an easier transition and to see how it works out for you until you get to the point where you want full zerk. You seem to have an organized group so it should be something to aim for. Aggro tends to spread and people who do the biggest numbers tend to get it. It will take some time to get adjusted to after being used to tanking a lot of stuff.

Jerus.4350:

Second, Is it normal to feel like a glass cannon? With my soldier set it’s darn hard to kill me, with this set I have virtue of resolve and my normal heal (usually shelter). Is that really it? is there something I’m missing. I realize I have aegis as well but without the trait that’s not healing me. So right now It’s a pain keeping myself up, unlike my support build where I’m easy and I focus on keeping everyone else up as well (and above 90%). I’m still grabbing initial agro in the stack, still getting rocked, but I don’t have the tools to keep myself up, what am I missing?

The goal is to mitigate damage. You have blind spam, perma prot, projectile defenses, condi removal, aegis, cc from ring of warding at the start of the trash pull, etc. If your group does what they should be doing you shouldn’t be taking much damage. Others in you group have access to cc, blinds, etc too and should be using them. The 3 hammer builds have access to everything you will need. I guess this would be a good example http://youtu.be/XBhu7PXMeR8?t=2m38s

Jerus.4350:

And the last question is, do you have a less optimal video of you using this in a dungeon? Preferably the hammer build. I ask because I have actually never done cadacus yet so I was completely lost watching that one. I’d love to see an AC or TA run. And I say less optimal because I’m sure you’d agree, less time taking hits makes it easier… that’s why you stack damage. So my group simply won’t match what yours likely will. I know it’s a bit odd “please don’t play as well as you do” but for learning purposes it’d be nice.

All I have as for as dungeon guides go are fractals. I used hammer there since that is the best choice for fractals so I guess it would be worth a watch for you.

Say hello to a lost of 10% in crit. damage this upcoming April.

I know Soldier’s rune are not optimal but it’s my last crutch. The shout for condi removal is my favorite. I have thought about switching to scholar’s for quite some time or add them to my 2nd set of zerker armor. How much of a difference does scholar make in terms of damage? Is it a vast difference or marginal?

Also might stacking. I have seen this discussed on the dungeon forum. How does a guardian stack might besides the Staff? I don’t really use the staff at much if at all. I didn’t think guardian’s were useful for might stacking but seems possible.

For reference: I use your balanced with extra dps build. I have two sets of full armor, zerker and knights, all my weapons and accessories are zerker. gs/s-f primary weapons, sceptor and focus for ranged..

Here is a lazy effective power calc for an unbuffed 20/25/0/0/25 Guardian with GS on.
Scholar EP – 6948.24
Scholar (under 90%) EP – 6316.58
Soldier EP – 5749.53

The difference is kind of big. I usually only have one shout on my bar at a time so I don’t think soldier runes are that worthwhile. Purging flames and absolute resolution should be enough removal. However, I would just wait to change runes if you decide to until the balance patch since scholar might not be the best going forward.

Guardians can stack might by making a fire field from purging flames (or hollowed but it’s so long of cd). You can blast it with shield of wrath or hammer bash. Just making the fire field with purging flames if you have a free slot and don’t need condi removal bad before a fight for others to blast is good if you don’t have an ele that makes them.

obal.3218:

I usually only have one shout on my bar at a time so I don’t think soldier runes are that worthwhile.

So much this. Shouts are situational and it’s never close to optimal to have three shout on your bar. And when you only have one, and selected it for a specific context, you’re not going to spam it for cond removal either. If you need stand your ground you’re not going to spam it for cond removal. If you need retreat you’re going to use it to block a boss while looking at his tell, not for cond removal. Or Save Yourselves as a way to gain higher burst (Power of the Virtuous) for fights that don’t require much support on your bar.
I think that players who believe conditions to be that much of a problem (?) should try mesmers. Mesmers don’t have to handicap themselves as much to provide strong party wide removal.

You could use ruby orbs as a placeholder while waiting for the new runes, that would still be better than running soldier. Soldier Runes aren’t an actual crutch, they’re more like a placebo. The whole idea of using shouts as condition removal really set back guardians builds when everyone was still running things like PoV and 30 in honor. Guardians play a lot better when you realize it’s a placebo and there is stronger support to be had without going with a shout bar.

hey obal,
liking the hammer build and after reading through fadeaway’s DPS chart would it be a viable option to roll with the valk/zerker gear set while still using your meta 3/5/0/4/2 traits if I feel like more survivability is needed or would the perma protection be enough.

thanks.

Using a mix is fine. A good general thing is to get a defensive set of armor and rest zerk. I only ran numbers (well dekeyz did for me ) for soldiers/knights/celestial armor and zerk rest for the hammer build. Fully buffed was around 8%-11% loss in dps and with no buffs would have probably been about 15% or so at worst. I didn’t test out valkyrie but it’s probably similar to the rest and ok to use. It’s not that bad of a trade off if you feel the need for it.

OK thanks, that clears up a lot what I had in my head, ill take the idea of a defensive set to heart and I guess ill add more zerkers as I get more used to the content and feel like I’m more competent with dodges and avoiding unnecessary damage.
thanks for your time

Any chance you can do a Healing & tank build? i look to you for awesome guides and cant find one post patch

Healing builds are terrible since healing power scales so poorly. You can’t out heal a lot of damage it’s better to mitigate it by using aegis, blind spam, projectile defenses, and perma prot. You also don’t want a full tank build since that will hurt your group. If you want a tank build look at the build I have labeled respectable tank. It gives the optimal amount of support for you and your group. Using a mix of tanky armor like knights/soldiers/celestial and zerker everything else is usually what people do to offer more survival while still doing ok damage.

After the patch, is it worth going 6/4/0/0/4 or 6/3/0/0/5 having Amplified Wrath as a trait?
Or the extra 100 power isn’t worth it?

Condition fail won’t ever be worth giving up 25 Radiance.

Couple Questions:

First, Knights Ascended GS or Zerk Exotic?

I got a knights ascended weapon box that I got the GS with, I heard it’s 10% extra damage with the ascended option, would that beat out the better stats?

Would 15% at night change that if it were knights that’s better? So that if my zerk one had night it’d be better at night and knights during the day if it didn’t have the night sigil?

How much damage can I expect out of Bane signet? Is save yourself the better DPS skill? I realize usually the skills are utility, but there are times I have an open spot, it’d be nice to know which is better.

Then the last one, I’m running the hammer builds, I’m keeping absolute resolution option, so I’m not going with the highest damage one, but instead the 3/3/0/4/4 build. However, here’s my question. Is the 3 in zeal better than the 5 in honor or virtue? That is if vulnerability is pretty much a constant in your group. I can get 1% per boon extra in virtue, or 10% extra if I’m not full endurance (which is quite often). And if I’m right in thinking one of those is better, which do ya’ll think? I was thinking the 10% on dodge.

Thanks for any answers or thoughts, it’s much appreciated.

For knight asc vs. zerker exo, try it out at buildcraft. I guess the knight one will win by a bit, as it has 5 % more damage independent of the stats. With the sigils, the exo with night will definitely win against the asc knight without night.

Bane signet is 5-10 % more damage, just see by how much it increases your power, power and damage are proportional.

As for the rest, I don’t know right now and I’m too lazy to do any calculations. Maybe someone else knows.

CptAurellian.9537:

For knight asc vs. zerker exo, try it out at buildcraft. I guess the knight one will win by a bit, as it has 5 % more damage independent of the stats. With the sigils, the exo with night will definitely win against the asc knight without night.

Bane signet is 5-10 % more damage, just see by how much it increases your power, power and damage are proportional.

As for the rest, I don’t know right now and I’m too lazy to do any calculations. Maybe someone else knows.

Thanks, I had heard of it before but never used buildcraft, just checked it out, very nice. Bane signet looked like just under 10% effective power for me. Knight Asc was slightly higher, but so close that I’m sure my exotic with night would win out (eventually I’ll get that asc too).

The 10% from low endurance seems nice, but I have on average probably 4-5 boons up in a fight, so I’d need to be low on endurance 40-50% of the time or more to beat out the 25 in virtue I’d think? that sound right? I know the standard is the vuln in zeal, and that has a side benefit of more power, but with the group I run the vuln stacking seems more than covered without it.