Guild Wars 2

So I’m thinking I want to get back into this game but I’m so sick of greatsword usage, I mean this game has hammer so loosely used and I really want Anet to rework the hammer for Guardians. I took a look and the warriors and its really good for dps and the hammer for Guardians is just slow and awfull. why not shorten the 3rd bash down 3/4 from 1 1/4 to 1/2? I wish they looked at this part of the forum, they never do..

Blue Snow.9021:

So I’m thinking I want to get back into this game but I’m so sick of greatsword usage, I mean this game has hammer so loosely used and I really want Anet to rework the hammer for Guardians. I took a look and the warriors and its really good for dps and the hammer for Guardians is just slow and awfull. why not shorten the 3rd bash down 3/4 from 1 1/4 to 1/2? I wish they looked at this part of the forum, they never do..

The devs aren’t ignorant of what people are writing in the forums. They just aren’t going to change things on the say-so of one person. :P Even if someone wrote eloquently on the topic, they aren’t just going to change things. If everyone was complaining about it, and the numbers ArenaNet sees confirm that it was an issue, then something like that would be changed.

Each profession is going to do different damage with the same weapon. One could argue that if you really want the hammer damage the warrior does, you should switch to warrior. But then you don’t get all the other benefits that the guardian gets.

One thing people don’t seem to take into consideration is that 3rd looooong swing generates a symbol which generates damage on just being in existence which if you’re only auto attacking is going to be there most of the fight(Along with its protection), not to mention it grants pretty much constant protection if you want it, you could also mighty blow into the symbol for area Retaliation.

Also as you know, the Banish skill has a blowout like nooo other class (so fun on Mouth of Zhaitan), the Binding skill (Zealots embrace) can be used to pull from range, not just to bind. Ring of Warding is ultimately useful for funneling things into an allied AoE hell. <3 Might Blow hits pretty hard and the auto attack aoe range is pretty wide which makes it amazing for aoe damage compared to like.. the greatsword or sword or… anything else guardian has.

Just things to consider next time you voice your dislike of the hammer. :P

Issue is the utility granted from hammer 3-5 are also very slow and easy to miss. I’m sure tweaks will be made to it when the weapon updates come to at the very least bring the overall dps up a bit or make things a bit quicker so it feels more fluid because right now the GS excels not only in damage but has great utility to boot. Not to mention the GS is kitten easy to use. The only time you should ever consider using a hammer over the GS is because of the short CD blast finisher — if that wasn’t there it would be close to useless in comparison and just used for people who prefer the hammer aesthetic.

Edit: I’d also like to add the fact that to actually make use of the hammer you are pretty much forced to trait symbols while the GS is perfectly fine as is allowing you to go 2h mastery which easily boosts your damage and fire-and-forget utility as well.

@Thz

huh? there is no point traiting symbols with hammer (or any build, that trait is just bad, but that’s another discussion entirely). Untraited that symbol is down all the time, giving you and all other melee practically constantly protection if you’re using mostly autoattack. You dont need to be standing inside the ring to get the prot. If we’re talking melee heavy PvE, hammer >> GS for group support. And if you’re still AH build after the nerf, hammer is much more viable than GS due to that near perma prot. Yes you probably do lose some dps (I havent checked the actual numbers) but you get a huge increase in survivability and group support with hammer. If I’m the only guardian in group, I go hammer. If there is another guardian who is GS, Ill go hammer. If there is another guardian who is hammer, Ill swap out for GS.

But yeah, I agree that hammer 3-5 is pretty weak and highly situational in PvE.

I don’t believe the hammer is a viable option anymore after the patch. Ninja skipping no longer works (right after the second hit, you dodge, return to your starting location and still hit with the 3rd swing).

This is a very big deal for these reasons:
1. it speeds up the third swing
2. It allows you to heal with your dodge rolls without wasting time and breaking the auto-attack chain. (selfless daring and +healing power needed to for this)
3. Traited, you can also receive the vigor boon on crits meaning you can ninja skip very often

After getting used to it, it’s very hard to go back to the normal slow attack chain.

Nox.8967:

@Thz

huh? there is no point traiting symbols with hammer (or any build, that trait is just bad, but that’s another discussion entirely). Untraited that symbol is down all the time, giving you and all other melee practically constantly protection if you’re using mostly autoattack. You dont need to be standing inside the ring to get the prot. If we’re talking melee heavy PvE, hammer >> GS for group support. And if you’re still AH build after the nerf, hammer is much more viable than GS due to that near perma prot. Yes you probably do lose some dps (I havent checked the actual numbers) but you get a huge increase in survivability and group support with hammer. If I’m the only guardian in group, I go hammer. If there is another guardian who is GS, Ill go hammer. If there is another guardian who is hammer, Ill swap out for GS.

But yeah, I agree that hammer 3-5 is pretty weak and highly situational in PvE.

You trait it because otherwise the hammer symbol deals crap damage. It’s not about getting good uptime, it’s about getting MORE uptime.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Nox.8967:

@Thz

huh? there is no point traiting symbols with hammer (or any build, that trait is just bad, but that’s another discussion entirely). Untraited that symbol is down all the time, giving you and all other melee practically constantly protection if you’re using mostly autoattack. You dont need to be standing inside the ring to get the prot. If we’re talking melee heavy PvE, hammer >> GS for group support. And if you’re still AH build after the nerf, hammer is much more viable than GS due to that near perma prot. Yes you probably do lose some dps (I havent checked the actual numbers) but you get a huge increase in survivability and group support with hammer. If I’m the only guardian in group, I go hammer. If there is another guardian who is GS, Ill go hammer. If there is another guardian who is hammer, Ill swap out for GS.

But yeah, I agree that hammer 3-5 is pretty weak and highly situational in PvE.

You trait it because otherwise the hammer symbol deals crap damage. It’s not about getting good uptime, it’s about getting MORE uptime.

What he said. You will get more dps out of hammer if you trait for longer symbol duration for more ticks. Plus the protection buff is not up 100% if you don’t trait for the longer duration (unless you spec for increased boon duration).

Don’t know what you all complaining about, Hammer is still the best weapon we have. The DPS doesn’t come form Auto Attack, its form MB. It gives mega survivability from the protection given from the symbol. Its a proper AoE weapon. Great for group support. The best CC weapon.

GS is just burst damage.

Even with the nerf it is still by far the most effective weapon we have. If your built for burst then you will obviously pick the GS, for anything else its going to be the Hammer.

KensaiZen.3740:

Don’t know what you all complaining about, Hammer is still the best weapon we have. The DPS doesn’t come form Auto Attack, its form MB. It gives mega survivability from the protection given from the symbol. Its a proper AoE weapon. Great for group support. The best CC weapon.

GS is just burst damage.

Even with the nerf it is still by far the most effective weapon we have. If your built for burst then you will obviously pick the GS, for anything else its going to be the Hammer.

Actually the sustained dps does come from the auto-attack and the symbol that it generates. MB is the “burst” damage (and blast finisher) for hammer. Also people shouldn’t ignore that you can do 2 MBs during the cooldown of one WW so the damage is pretty even with regards to the big hitters.

Gs is not just burst though…it also has cc, condition removal, retaliation and a gap closer as well.

I still personally prefer gs to hammer, though I’m trying to come around.

kidbs.8920:

KensaiZen.3740:

Don’t know what you all complaining about, Hammer is still the best weapon we have. The DPS doesn’t come form Auto Attack, its form MB. It gives mega survivability from the protection given from the symbol. Its a proper AoE weapon. Great for group support. The best CC weapon.

GS is just burst damage.

Even with the nerf it is still by far the most effective weapon we have. If your built for burst then you will obviously pick the GS, for anything else its going to be the Hammer.

Shouldve made it clear i was speaking from a pvo/wvw pov. Most of your auto attacks will miss due to everyone running away from you or dodging. Traited with 2HM and its a 3.5 sec skill. About as fast as 2 auto swings. And its leaping.

In pve you dont even need to use it. Its auto to win. Especially tanking crap loads of mobs.
Actually the sustained dps does come from the auto-attack and the symbol that it generates. MB is the “burst” damage (and blast finisher) for hammer. Also people shouldn’t ignore that you can do 2 MBs during the cooldown of one WW so the damage is pretty even with regards to the big hitters.

I don’t believe the hammer is a viable option anymore after the patch. Ninja skipping no longer works (right after the second hit, you dodge, return to your starting location and still hit with the 3rd swing).

The Hammer was already mega powerful without Ninja skipping . The almost 100% protection uptime and constant blast finishing makes running dungeons a hell lot easier.

100% protection for 1/2 the melee that are standing right next to you. Considering how many buffs with 600 range don’t even hit all party members, the hammer protection only really consistently applies to you.

Yaki.9563:

100% protection for 1/2 the melee that are standing right next to you. Considering how many buffs with 600 range don’t even hit all party members, the hammer protection only really consistently applies to you.

Lol who doesnt trait fir larger symbols for hammer. If not they shoukd be using a GS.

Polle.6908:

I don’t believe the hammer is a viable option anymore after the patch. Ninja skipping no longer works (right after the second hit, you dodge, return to your starting location and still hit with the 3rd swing).

The Hammer was already mega powerful without Ninja skipping . The almost 100% protection uptime and constant blast finishing makes running dungeons a hell lot easier.

Not to mention that the Ninja skipping was clearly an exploit, and wasn’t workign as developers intended. The hammer is still a good weapon, and ANY weapon you like and have fun with is viable.

I keep hearing this and it’s getting increasingly annoying. 2MB is not the same damage as whirling wrath, open your eyes. Whirling wrath is a channeled ability and its damage ramps up — the damage isn’t even close.

i personally love both weapons. they offer different utilities so you use them in different situations if you can predict what you’re going to be up against. i am an avid hammer user and i feel it’s the best weapon for ME as a Guardian. iw ouldn’t give it up for anything. though there have been times that i wish i had a greatsword, or a scepter even. sometimes it does depend on the situation.

i don’t see the point in arguing numbers. yes WW can hit for a lot. so can MB. i choose hammer because it’s what i feel best with. it’s easily one of the most versatile weapons in the game from my PoV.

MB>>>>>>>WW in pvp. You can never expect all your WW hits to land but MB = instant damage. In fact in most of case 1MB damage even > 1WW. If you consider CD, MB is farrrrrrrr way better than WW.

Thz.7569:

I keep hearing this and it’s getting increasingly annoying. 2MB is not the same damage as whirling wrath, open your eyes. Whirling wrath is a channeled ability and its damage ramps up — the damage isn’t even close.

On a single target, a well initiated whirling wrath will do a lot more damage than a Mighty Blow. However as you’ve already stated, Mighty blow isn’t a channel so the damage it inflicts is more reliable at a longer range. Couple that with the short cool down, the damage output between the 2 is closer than it first looks.

Polle.6908:

Thz.7569:

I keep hearing this and it’s getting increasingly annoying. 2MB is not the same damage as whirling wrath, open your eyes. Whirling wrath is a channeled ability and its damage ramps up — the damage isn’t even close.

On a single target, a well initiated whirling wrath will do a lot more damage than a Mighty Blow. However as you’ve already stated, Mighty blow isn’t a channel so the damage it inflicts is more reliable at a longer range. Couple that with the short cool down, the damage output between the 2 is closer than it first looks.

I’m not talking circumstance — Just stating that MB damage isn’t even close to WW. How consistent MB’s damage is isn’t what I’m getting at. I was just targeting those (and not just this thread) who keep saying 2MB=1WW when that is incredibly wrong. But to talk circumstance, using MB on cooldown is lowering the hammer’s main dps outlet and if you want to talk consistency don’t forget that a lot of hammer’s dps comes from a full duration symbol.

( the last bit isn’t directed at you, Polle:> )

Thz.7569:

I keep hearing this and it’s getting increasingly annoying. 2MB is not the same damage as whirling wrath, open your eyes. Whirling wrath is a channeled ability and its damage ramps up — the damage isn’t even close.

My eyes are open. I’ve been playing the Guardian since beta, and following since alpha. In the betas I got 160 hours and ran almost nothing but GS + Hammer. Since release, I’ve clocked about 900 hours almost always using either GS or Hammer.

Mathematically, they’re essentially the same DPS. WW is 1251 damage, Mighty Blow is 647 damage. You get 2 MBs in per 1 WW, therefore same DPS.

However, the listed damage of WW is incorrect, the actual damage is higher. In practice, 2MB = 1 WW still. Here’s why:

MB either crits or it doesn’t. Either 100% of your damage gets the multiplier, or 0%. For WW, there are 14 total hits. On average, roughly the same % of your hits will crit as you have critical chance. So if you had 50% critical chance, it’s likely only 50% of your WW damage would crit.

Therefore, even if WW was triple the damage of MB, as long as you crit both times with MB you’ll have more damage. If you only crit 1/2 of the MB, you’ll deal less damage.

The higher your critical chance, the more damage WW will do per use. That’s not the case with the Hammer, the only thing that increases is the probability of dealing full damage (and so overall DPS).

Alarox.4590:

However, the listed damage of WW is incorrect, the actual damage is higher. In practice, 2MB = 1 WW still.

Also the listed damage is for seven hits and two projectile hits (total possible is 14). You may or may not hit more than that.

1st, WW hits 7 times and 2 projectiles if the target is next to you, go test it if you don’t believe me.

2nd, 2 MB does 19% more damage than 1 WW.

If you pick up 2 hand mastery and use GS CD’s over 30 seconds then it will do 4-5% more damage, thats with the extra 1 might you get from the #1 chain. You can instead pick up Writh of Persistance for hammer.

So yes GS does 5% more damage woopdy doo. Ill take my Hammer and give more utility to the group then GS. GS #5 is the only good thing on it.

Blue Snow.9021:

So I’m thinking I want to get back into this game but I’m so sick of greatsword usage, I mean this game has hammer so loosely used and I really want Anet to rework the hammer for Guardians. I took a look and the warriors and its really good for dps and the hammer for Guardians is just slow and awfull. why not shorten the 3rd bash down 3/4 from 1 1/4 to 1/2? I wish they looked at this part of the forum, they never do..

Look I gotta big hammer-I’m going to hit you-Up goes the hammer-Slowly-
Steady-ooooo I’m gonna hit you sooo hard-Nooo don’t dodge,hammer has cookie-down goes the hammer
Foe is long gone and lives a happy life.

^^ You have the ability to move also and that 3rd attack has a decent range.

I think the discussion hammer vs. GS simply miss alot of the good points of each. They have their unique uses. GS doesn’t give me 100% protection. That IS a valuable effect. Hammer doesn’t give me tremendous gap closing. Those tiny examples are a drop in the bucket. If you don’t look at the weapon as a whole with the gear and traits you use, you just aren’t using all the information to play your profession.

The people that REALLY know how to play their guardians recognize all weapons for their strengths and know how and when to use them.

The only fix that hammer needs is for 3 and 5 to work more effectively in PVP. If you hate it because it’s slow, low damage, or not sexy enough with SoP, there are 11 other weapon combos for you to play without claiming hammer is ‘awful’ or ‘crap’ to push an agenda.

Obtena.7952:

The only fix that hammer needs is for 3 and 5 to work more effectively in PVP. If you hate it because it’s slow, low damage, or not sexy enough with SoP, there are 11 other weapon combos for you to play without claiming hammer is ‘awful’ or ‘crap’ to push an agenda.

And you’re not making this post to “push an agenda”?

Everyone has an “agenda” the only difference between people is if they are open about their intentions. Actually, I would say everyone’s “agenda” is pretty obvious. You either want a change or you don’t.

I think my only issue with the agenda being presented here is that it’s claiming the hammer is ‘slow and awful’ so it needs a fix. That’s simply not recognizing the balance between what’s good and bad about the hammer. Being slow does not mean broken. Awful is simply subjective.