Guild Wars 2

Even though it’d make far more sense for it to be a consecration, and it clashes with the new Force of Will when traiting, but anyway. I fail to see how someone blowing out a cone of healing is a “shout” in any sense of the word.

Edit: or at least it was implied that it was going to be a shout.

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

In order to balance the heals either shelter or healing breeze would need to be put into an existing category as we already have a (crap) medi heal. In that light, healing breeze makes more sense as a shout than shelter which works better as a consecration.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

In order to balance the heals either shelter or healing breeze would need to be put into an existing category as we already have a (crap) medi heal. In that light, healing breeze makes more sense as a shout than shelter which works better as a consecration.

Shelter doesn’t fit consecrations or shouts. Healing Breeze fits consecrations functionally because it’s technically an over-a-duration heal, and it also fits consecrations thematically since it’s clearly a magical ability. Shouts are radial instant cast abilities that usually provide buffs, and I don’t think they have that much in common with healing breeze.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

This made me laugh so much for some reason. “Don’t you dare die on me! Heal kitten it! heal!” I hope they add some sort of corny dialogue to it. i’d use it just for that.

Nikkinella.8254:

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

This made me laugh so much for some reason. “Don’t you dare die on me! Heal kitten it! heal!” I hope they add some sort of corny dialogue to it. i’d use it just for that.

Gerdian: “AAAHHHHHH!!!!!!” heals everyone
Thief: “I feel better thanks m8.”
War: “what the f-”

Saiyan.1704:

Nikkinella.8254:

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

This made me laugh so much for some reason. “Don’t you dare die on me! Heal kitten it! heal!” I hope they add some sort of corny dialogue to it. i’d use it just for that.

Gerdian: “AAAHHHHHH!!!!!!” heals everyone
Thief: “I feel better thanks m8.”
War: “what the f-”

Maybe anet has a partnership with Scope or something. New guardian now with minty fresh breath! “Ahhh!” “your breath…..is so minty! I feel refreshed just from smelling it!” And maybe we get a free promotional scope bottle as a focus skin.

Shelter – consecration
Healing breeze – meditation

tomes – shouts..? I suppose, since your are reading spells aloud from a book :S

Between the hammer buffs and Healing Breeze becoming a shout, I feel like someone has to make a guardian named Triple H.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101012114427/prowrestling/images/e/ef/Triple_H_Water_Spit.jpg

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

Like a Drill Sergeant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qiQI-zrPvQ

Consecrations also drop fields (not necessarily combo fields) which Healing Breeze does not. I think I’d prefer HB to be a shout, perhaps renamed to “Mending Refrain” or any of the other healy paragon skills.

Shelter also doesn’t seem very supporty, but it might need to provide something to allies of it were to become a shout or consecration.

I think Tomes could maybe fit best as Spirit Weapons, or perhaps Tome of Wrath is a SW and Tome of Courage worked into a consecration. (Visually it could stay a book and represent focus, as focus already has books as skins)

How exactly these would work out would be interesting. For fun, let’s assume we need to for them into Spirit Weapon and Consecration style skills. Tome of Wrath could have bouncing projectiles that cause burning and weakness on enemies, and quickness on allies. The activated skill would be the current ToW 5. ToC could provide an area that ticks for 10% each second for 10 second while providing a shocking aura type effect for allies inside.

Saiyan.1704:

Nikkinella.8254:

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Instead of blowing air at you, the Guardian will shout at you until you feel better.

This made me laugh so much for some reason. “Don’t you dare die on me! Heal kitten it! heal!” I hope they add some sort of corny dialogue to it. i’d use it just for that.

Gerdian: “AAAHHHHHH!!!!!!” heals everyone
Thief: “I feel better thanks m8.”
War: “what the f-”

You win one forum point. Use it wisely.

@OP
Well, shouts are like oral “buffing” or you just vomiting out magical energy, so I see no issue with this. Litany needs a buff though.

It’s a tough decision and I understand now why ANet has not decided yet on how to categorize healing breeze, shelter and tomes. We have the current skill groups left:

Shout

• Healing breeze is basically a shout. Although the guardian doesn’t actually shout while breezing, it does fit thematically into the shout skill group. It’s a support skill just like the other shouts. Stand your ground gives stability to teammates, retreat gives swiftness+aegis and healing breeze should heal your allies.

• If they made Save Yourselves more significant they could turn it into an Elite skill. Then you have a full shout group just like the Meditation skill group. This would open up alternatives towards the currently heavily used Renewed Focus.

Consecrations

• Both Tomes should be consecrations. Consecrate means you declare something sacred. You consecrate from tomes to communicate your declarations. Also many skills of the tomes are shown as consecrations on the ground.

• If Shelter is turned into a consecration then we have three complete skill groups. It’s not that easy to justify why Shelter is a consecration though. Perhaps it has something to do with whatever is sacred needs to be consecrated with immunity.

Spirit Weapons

• They should make Bow of Truth a healing skill instead of a normal utility. Although not used by the majority of the players this skill should be reassigned imho.

• Currently no elite skill but why not just make Sword of Justice an elite and make it more interesting?

Noah.4756:

It’s a tough decision and I understand now why ANet has not decided yet on how to categorize healing breeze, shelter and tomes. We have the current skill groups left:

Shout

• Healing breeze is basically a shout. Although the guardian doesn’t actually shout while breezing, it does fit thematically into the shout skill group. It’s a support skill just like the other shouts. Stand your ground gives stability to teammates, retreat gives swiftness+aegis and healing breeze should heal your allies.

• If they made Save Yourselves more significant they could turn it into an Elite skill. Then you have a full shout group just like the Meditation skill group. This would open up alternatives towards the currently heavily used Renewed Focus.

Consecrations

• Both Tomes should be consecrations. Consecrate means you declare something sacred. You consecrate from tomes to communicate your declarations. Also many skills of the tomes are shown as consecrations on the ground.

• If Shelter is turned into a consecration then we have three complete skill groups. It’s not that easy to justify why Shelter is a consecration though. Perhaps it has something to do with whatever is sacred needs to be consecrated with immunity.

Spirit Weapons

• They should make Bow of Truth a healing skill instead of a normal utility. Although not used by the majority of the players this skill should be reassigned imho.

• Currently no elite skill but why not just make Sword of Justice an elite and make it more interesting?

Even with the merging of all the spirit weapon traits into one I doubt many people will use any of them with any regularity the only exception being shield.

The reason being is

1: They take up utility skill slots, meaning you have to sacrifice some very useful things for them. (most notibly condition removal & or stability)
&
2: They die quite easily & once they die there is a good chunk of time before they can be summoned again.

The easiest fix I can think of for them would be to increase their health by a good margin & make the Cd timer start the second they are summoned.

Or they could just rework them to be more akin to invulnerable mobile buff banners.

The problem I have with spirit weapons now, is that they removed Wrathful Spirits (unless it’s been made baseline). Without that trait, SW damage isn’t all that impressive.

Noah.4756:

Shout

• Healing breeze is basically a shout. Although the guardian doesn’t actually shout while breezing, it does fit thematically into the shout skill group. It’s a support skill just like the other shouts. Stand your ground gives stability to teammates, retreat gives swiftness+aegis and healing breeze should heal your allies.

I wouldn’t say Healing Breeze is basically a shout. That’s like saying Cleansing Flames is basically a shout. They may both be supportive, but there are big differences between Healing Breeze and Shouts.
Shouts and consecrations are both very supportive skill types, the difference between them is that consecrations (as well as healing breeze) are often better used with more distant positioning, whereas shouts are best used in the thick of the things.

I agree with Tomes becoming consecrations. I don’t think any other category fits Tomes as well.
I don’t think Spirit Weapons would suit them functionally, maybe it’d suit them somewhat thematically. If they were Spirit Weapons, tome users would have to spend an entire specialization on a offensive trait line (Zeal) in order to improve their tome with the spirit weapon cdr trait (additionally the burning/command CDR parts would have no effect), whereas the consecration CDR/duration trait is in a more versatile yet supportive line which appropriately suits the versatile yet supportive nature of tomes, and the trait would also effect both tomes’ durations. Consecrations are also high range, which tomes already fit into.

It has often been suggested that Healing Breeze’s cone should be flipped 180 degrees so it heals people behind you ( since Guardian’s are nearly always at the front of the battle ).

IMHO Healing Fart makes much more sense than Healing Shout

I think it would be cool if it was an aoe heal of 180 radius

Healing aura is what they should change it to. Rather than a cone in front of you, just a pulsating aura in a radius around your body.

I think the question is, on which of the following traitable effects makes the most sense on each skill?

• Convert one condition on affected allies into a boon
• Increased duration
• Extra self-heal, grants fury to nearby allies

All of these also include reduced cooldown. I didn’t include the new signet trait, since we’ve had a signet healing skill since the launch of the game.

So for me, increased duration seems very valuable on Shelter (them blocks) while converting a condition matches Healing Breeze, since it’s the only one of the bunch that heals allies.

most likely because of how it looks

healing breeze does come out of your mouth after all

I wonder if that makes guardians good kissers or not. They kiss so good they kiss people back to good health.

Why do you think my guardians are female?

Making Tomes into Consecrations means that taking the Consecration trait would have to increase the duration you kept the Tome up by 20% or it’d become confusing. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’d certainly need to be balanced against.

I think a case can be made for Shouts as well, and having an AoE condi to boon conversion go on when you pop those elites could be nice, and would certainly lead to fewer balance considerations.

Eolirin.1830:

Making Tomes into Consecrations means that taking the Consecration trait would have to increase the duration you kept the Tome up by 20% or it’d become confusing. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’d certainly need to be balanced against.

At most they’d need to up the cooldown on Light of Deliverance and Judgment by 6 more seconds, even then I don’t think that’s necessary. Many other skills are gaining a type as well, so balancing tomes based on old skills wouldn’t make much sense imo.

gregbow.4396:

Shelter – consecration
Healing breeze – meditation

tomes – shouts..? I suppose, since your are reading spells aloud from a book :S

Litany of Wrath is already a meditation. No change coming there betcha betcha

Litany is terrible though and no one uses it.

Nikkinella.8254:

Litany is terrible though and no one uses it.

Just give it either Quickness or the new anticondi boon on cast.

tomes to spirit weapons
shelter to consecration
healing breeze is shouting

gg

Nikkinella.8254:

Litany is terrible though and no one uses it.

It’ll certainly be better than it is right now when HoT lands.

The potential synergy with new traits might go some way to mitigate its inherent failings

Jaxom.7310:

tomes to spirit weapons
shelter to consecration
healing breeze is shouting

gg

my vote:
tomes to meditation
shelter to meditation
healing breeze to meditation

;)

Very excited about the new healing breeze for guardian. I use it all the time, and this will make it significantly better for party-wide health maintenance as a guardian

Tarsius.3170:

Jaxom.7310:

tomes to spirit weapons
shelter to consecration
healing breeze is shouting

gg

my vote:
tomes to meditation
shelter to meditation
healing breeze to meditation

;)

Shelter being a meditation would probably suit it best, even though the skill is already good enough as is and probably doesn’t need a typing. :p

Tomes should be consecrations imo, since tomes don’t play much like Spirit Weapon do. At the very least ToC should be a consecration, and maybe ToW could be a spirit weapon. Consecrations = ranged support = Tome of Courage (and possibly Tome of Wrath), and Spirit Weapons = “ranged” damage (with a bit of support) = Tome of Wrath.

If they did make one of the tomes a Spirit Weapon, I’d hope they would also change its functionality somewhat. For Tome of Wrath, for example:

Auto / AI attack chain alternates between Conflagrate and Affliction, using similar targeting as current spirit weapons. The tome should have higher uptime on attacks than current weapons, if for no other reason than it having ranged attacks and not needing to chase down targets.
The new “Command” ability would be Zealot’s Fervor, then Judgement, then a final use of Zealot’s Fervor (Judgement’s current cooldown is too high to ever be used twice, and should probably be kept that way.)
Smiter’s Boon would probably be rolled into Zealot’s Fervor.

The main loss here is that you don’t have as much control over the two biggest skills of the tome (Fervor & Judgement), since you can’t jump straight to judgement nor can you chain two Fervors without a judgement in between. On the bright side, your Tome can be doing all of these things independent of you the player, so you don’t lose your weapon / heal skills.

I’m not sure if this is a good idea, but they could try and revamp a Tome into a spirit weapon, if they wanted.

I don’t think tomes need to be revamped at all. Their concept is good, and they’re also fun to use (a common complaint is that they’re fun to use, but that fun is too short-lived). At most they could just use a few changes.

Just a few ideas:
Litany of Wrath becomes shout and might in that case instant, also gives allies ability to heal with attacks but for only 10%(?)
Healing breeze becomes becomes meditation: cast time is no problem look at renewed focus lel.
Shelter: concecration, magicly blocks all attacks with just running around looking like a foetus. Magic! Just like farting fire and removing conditions Duhh…

As for tomes: make fitting utilies for them or:
Tome of wrath: shout since my guard keeps yelling around “THIS IS MY WRATH”!!!
Tome of courage: Idd say concecration but not sure

The V.8759:

Just a few ideas:
Litany of Wrath becomes shout and might in that case instant, also gives allies ability to heal with attacks but for only 10%(?) It can be useful in PvE in PvP it just needs to be instant
Healing breeze becomes becomes meditation: cast time is no problem look at renewed focus lel. wut…invulnerable…
Shelter: concecration, magicly blocks all attacks with just running around looking like a foetus. Magic! Just like farting fire and removing conditions Duhh… Just let it block attacks against allies as well then it becomes a open shelter

As for tomes: make fitting utilies for them or:
Tome of wrath: shout since my guard keeps yelling around “THIS IS MY WRATH”!!!
Tome of courage: Idd say concecration but not sure
Don’t kill a style players got used to if it doesn’t hinders your class see it as spirit weapons you control yourself AKA just label it

I’ve always used healing breeze in my consecration support build, but now if shelter is made a consecration I might use that instead, not sure…

The thing with shelter is that it’s not a supportive heal, generally speaking. I mean, you can have certain effects work off of it (i.e. on block effects), but it otherwise doesn’t do anything to help anyone else. In comparison, both shouts and consecrations are designed to fit more of a support-type role.

I think the only reason people think healing breeze should be grouped with shouts is because the guardian basically blows the… healing stuff, whatever it is, out of their mouth. However, I guess one could maybe link shelter to spirit weapons because a shield forms to protect you? It’s a bit of a stretch in either case.

I guess shelter could make sense as a meditation, but there’s already a mediation healing skill.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I’ve always used healing breeze in my consecration support build, but now if shelter is made a consecration I might use that instead, not sure…

The thing with shelter is that it’s not a supportive heal, generally speaking. I mean, you can have certain effects work off of it (i.e. on block effects), but it otherwise doesn’t do anything to help anyone else. In comparison, both shouts and consecrations are designed to fit more of a support-type role.

I think the only reason people think healing breeze should be grouped with shouts is because the guardian basically blows the… healing stuff, whatever it is, out of their mouth. However, I guess one could maybe link shelter to spirit weapons because a shield forms to protect you? It’s a bit of a stretch in either case.

I guess shelter could make sense as a meditation, but there’s already a mediation healing skill.

Just allow Shelter to protect allies in it’s radius(real small lol) as well.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I’ve always used healing breeze in my consecration support build, but now if shelter is made a consecration I might use that instead, not sure…

Same, I’ll still stick with Healing Breeze either way though.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I think the only reason people think healing breeze should be grouped with shouts is because the guardian basically blows the… healing stuff, whatever it is, out of their mouth.

Yeah, but that’s a terrible reason. It’s like saying every “breath” skill (Cleansing Flame, Drake’s Breath, Cone of Ice, etc) in the game should become a shout. It’s clearly a magic-based ability anyway (hence why its named after a monk prayer). :p
I’ve mentioned it elsewhere, but Monk runes and Force of Will have great importance and synergy with Healing Breeze. However, you won’t have either of those if you’re using a shout build; you’d have Trooper runes and Superior Aria instead. So in the end, Healing Breeze being a shout limits its potential, and the shout classification on it is misplaced in more ways than one.

Noah.4756:

Consecrations

• Both Tomes should be consecrations. Consecrate means you declare something sacred.

Check out this idea for classifying the skills the tomes give rather than the tomes as a whole.

Spirit Weapons

• They should make Bow of Truth a healing skill instead of a normal utility. Although not used by the majority of the players this skill should be reassigned imho.

Ooo. I LIKE that.

Tombs could be spirit weapons if they actually looked like spirit weapons. Make them look blue-ethreal and modify a few skills to reflect the spirit weapon trait and you’re done.

It’s a needed rework imo.

Tomes don’t need to be reworked at all. The most common complaints about tomes is that:
- They’re really fun to use but too short (solved by being consecrations and traited).
- Utilities can’t be used while using them (like every transformation, but it could be changed without a rework regardless).
- They required Elite Focus which clashed with Absolute Resolution in some builds (Elite Focus is now baseline).

Thematically, Tomes aren’t even “spirits” in any sense of the word, they’re items. Tome of Courage isn’t even really a “weapon”.
Functionally, Tomes are transformations with heavy support that often fill a similar role to consecrations (ie. buffing and supporting allies heavily from a range over a duration). Spirit weapons are pets, the best two of which (sword/hammer) offer high burst damage and control from a high range, and the bow and the shield offer decentish sustained healing and unreliable mediocre support respectively. Even one of the developers during the stream noted that Tomes and Spirit Weapons play differently.
Trait-wise, people using Tome of Courage (support guardians) wouldn’t go anywhere near the Zeal line just to get the Spirit Weapon trait. Considering that both tomes are supportive but the kind of support they offer is versatile, making them a Virtues-based skill type (consecrations) would make sense.

Going by the actual in-game presentation of the magical class the skill uses (not the mechanical way the skill actually works), their current suggestions do make the most sense IMO.

Shelter: Consecration.
I know it’s not a support skill persay (though I’m sure there must be some traits that make it that way at least a little), but thematically it makes the most sense. What skill is also a Consecration? Sanctuary. Look at the artwork for Shelter. If you see Shelter as a mini-personal Sanctuary (and functionally it sorta is), then making it a consecration makes alot more sense.

Healing Breeze: Shout.
Honestly I don’t know what you could really classify this as. But for synergestic purpose ANet have stated we need a Healing skill that’s a shout, and that’s something I can get behind. As magical as healing breeze clearly is (though, TBF, Shouts are magical too, as are most things in Tyria, just less in-your-face magical), and how it doesn’t really fit the way Shouts work, it’s still the best option on the Healing Skill abilities to tag as a shout (in world, thematically, that is). Why? Because when you cast the skill it comes out your mouth. Yes, I know, that’s a lame reason, as others have stated. But it’s still a better reason than we would have for making any other Healing Skill the Guardian has a Shout.

The alternative is a bit extreme. Make “Hold the Line” a Healing Slot skill instead, and buff it appropriately (and bring it’s personal-Heal and party-regen application states in line with the Health gain we currently see from Healing Breeze), and move Healing Breeze over to a utility slot instead, where you can properly typecast it (though once again, I’m not 100% sure where it’d fit even then. Meditation? Consecration? Hard to say. Maybe Guardian could simply do with a new skill type? But then they’d be no need to make it a utility skill, as it could just be the heal skill for that new skill type…so it’s self-contradictory).

Bow of Truth: Spirit Weapon.
Make Bow of Truth a Heal Slot skill instead of a Utility Slot skill, and have it serve as the Spirit Weapon Self-Heal, as somebody suggested. I’m totally behind this proposed change someone made. It makes a tonne of sense. Make sure to give the original summoning of the Bow a decent self-heal element.

Litany of Wrath: Meditation.
Yeah. This is already here. Not that you’d know it. Make it instant-cast, at least, like other Meditations, and we’d at least have something we could work with. I guess further discussion on it is a bit off-topic though, seems it does already fill the Meditation heal-skill role, so that’s sorted…even if it needs a rebalance or redesign.

Signet of Resolve: Signet.
This skill is the Signet-based heal skill, is already here and in-game (has been since pre-release :P) and is perfectly fine. Just mentioning it for completionists sake.

As for the Elite Skills;
Well, I guess Renewed Focus could become a Meditation again, just like it used to be when it was a Utility skill rather than an elite. That makes some sense. Alternatively, thematically it would fit as a Consecration as well – merely for the same reason I gave for Shelter (it’s a mini-personal Sanctuary).

As for the Tomes; Yeah, like Healing Breeze, really not sure what to do with those, they also don’t fit any skill class the Guardian currently has. They do fit skill classes other professions have though. Like Healing Breeze, maybe they would be better off as a new skill type, even without any matching Traits on the Guardian itself – but then, as someone suggested, make the spells you actually cast with the Tomes various Guardian core-skill types. I like the idea, and that could work. Otherwise, the summoning of the book itself – I guess Spirit Weapon makes the most sense if not using a new/stolen skill-type, but it’s a little bit of a stretch for what the skill actually is. Suppose it doesn’t really matter though if the Tome 1-5 skills themselves get their own, appropriate, Guardian skill types though. If anything it’d be a way to make them all-inclusive with the various Guardian core-skill type traits it at least some place (seems while the summon Book spell itself could just about be a Spirit Weapon, the 1-5 skills on the book could not be).

So how is this ability going to work? If its still channeled cone it will still be semi-worthless. It should be changed to instant with the normal range a shout has.

brannigan.9831:

So how is this ability going to work? If its still channeled cone it will still be semi-worthless. It should be changed to instant with the normal range a shout has.

Although that could potentially be borderline OP unless the numbers were also adjusted. I think it will still function in the same way, we’re just discussing the matter of it’s classification as far as utility types go.

brannigan.9831:

So how is this ability going to work? If its still channeled cone it will still be semi-worthless. It should be changed to instant with the normal range a shout has.

Honestly, Healing Breeze isn’t even worthless as is. It’s just not used on meta builds, but that’s still a big difference.

As for it being a cone. If people can’t even turn around to aim the skill (if they’re at the front), that’s their problem really. No need to dumb down the skill because people can’t put in a minimal amount of skill/effort to use it.

How wide is Healing Breeze’s cone anyways? I haven’t used it a ton, but it never seemed too hard to hit unless my allies were all mashing dodge roll in different directions.

Fashion Mage.3712:

brannigan.9831:

So how is this ability going to work? If its still channeled cone it will still be semi-worthless. It should be changed to instant with the normal range a shout has.

Honestly, Healing Breeze isn’t even worthless as is. It’s just not used on meta builds, but that’s still a big difference.

As for it being a cone. If people can’t even turn around to aim the skill (if they’re at the front), that’s their problem really. No need to dumb down the skill because people can’t put in a minimal amount of skill/effort to use it.

The thing about it is that the Guardian is a frontliner, having to turn around or move behind your backline to heal them is just weird.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Fashion Mage.3712:

brannigan.9831:

So how is this ability going to work? If its still channeled cone it will still be semi-worthless. It should be changed to instant with the normal range a shout has.

Honestly, Healing Breeze isn’t even worthless as is. It’s just not used on meta builds, but that’s still a big difference.

As for it being a cone. If people can’t even turn around to aim the skill (if they’re at the front), that’s their problem really. No need to dumb down the skill because people can’t put in a minimal amount of skill/effort to use it.

The thing about it is that the Guardian is a frontliner, having to turn around or move behind your backline to heal them is just weird.

You can literally be one step behind five frontliners and heal them all with breeze. That’s what I do on my build. Mind you, my breeze build is not your cookie-cutter GWEN zerg build, but you don’t necessarily have to turn around or only use it on the backline.

Honestly, the primary reason people don’t use healing breeze over shelter is because healing breeze is not shelter.