Yet again I’m trying to build a heal support oriented character… Yet again I’m met with frustration… Some of us don’t want to play “Damage” or “Damage with support light”, we want like good and effective and worthwhile roles to play…
The Healing Power scaling is so extremely poor for Guardian skills that heal, and this needs to be reevaluated. Overall, heal support skills and stats and traits and gear and “stuff”… needs to be improved across the board, but let’s at least start improving Healing Power scaling for the current heal skills we have…
it scales extremely well with the Honor trait lines, a 1:1 scale with selfless daring, with mender’s amulet you dodge roll heal for 1.2k+
it scales extremely well with the Honor trait lines, a 1:1 scale with selfless daring, with mender’s amulet you dodge roll heal for 1.2k+
Thanks. I’ll mess with the build editor more, but I’m just frustrated when I look at some numbers with and without healing power.
I’m just really tired of the lack of decent roles to play here and keep defaulting to playing damage because it’s like pulling teeth to play anything else.
TL;DR – Guardian’s Healing Power Coefficient/Scaling is HIGH AS HELL what are you talking about?
I dont know ive messed with Guardian’s Healing Power scaling, not in PvP mind you. But in most instances even using Healing Power Minor stat sets like Zealots the Guardian gains 1.5~2.0x additional healing on most skills.
Compared to other classes the Guardian’s Healing Power Coefficient is ridiculously high and not only that but you can bypass those Healing Power Soft Caps by using Out-going Healing effectiveness to increase your healing to allies Drastically.
(Most Numbers are rounded from me being lazy to look up the exact value in game and do not take Out-Going Healing Effectiveness into account unless stated AND using Minor Healing Power 1200~1400)
“Signet of Courage” can go from 800 Base healing all the way up to 2.2k Healing per 10seconds which can be further increased drastically to nearly 3.4k per 10seconds using Out-going healing effectiveness and the “Perfect Inscriptions” Trait.
As a Guardian you are applying constant healing with anything you do to your allies when Spec’d right the only downside is they have to be huddled up pretty close to you.
“Selfless Daring” like stated above can easily do over 1k healing in an area even with Minor Healing Power Gear.
“Monk’s Focus” can do nearly 3k Healing up from 1.9k
“Virtue of Resolve” can have its indicated healing increased from 300 to over 600 if its fully Trait’d and be shared between allies.
“Pure of Heart” can be increased to over 1300 healing when Aegis breaks up from 600 AND this applies on allies when they block using an Aegis you have applied from either Shouts, Mace Skills, or “Communal Defense” Trait.
“Writ of Persistence” is increased from 100 to 200 Healing per tick which may not seem a lot but like with regeneration this is per tick and adds up very quickly.
“Regeneration(10secs)” Can be increased from 1700 to 3000 and you have a lot of ways of applying regeneration to allies and ties into Writ of Persistence for giving high per tick healing
-Staff Weapon-
“Orb of Light” can do 540 when passing through allies and an additional 1640 on detonation up from 200 and 700.
“Empower” can do 2800 up from 1500
-Mace-
“Faithful Strike” can heal nearly 1300 in a small area and thats an Auto Attack.
“Receive the Light” can be increased to Allied Healing per Pulse 1500 for FIVE PULSES over the course of 3seconds.
“Merciful Intervention” can be increased to nearly 3000 as a Teleport and Area Heal.
(edited by Azure.8926)
Azure has a nice list there, and this is what I use as my “I’m gonna carry this fractal”(in the end being mainly me just kitten ing around though it does take a lot of pressure off people):
Of course there are other alterations, like picking up Monks Focus and Merciful Intervention for more healing. Focus Mastery if you use that instead of hammer/shield, shelter if you’re facetanking and all that fun stuff.
In the end we have a high powered regen with Writ of Persistance, mace auto heal, plus our boon regen. Couple that with somewhat frequent aegis pops for 1.5k a pop and dodge heals as sort of a less frequent health maintenance. Then you have a nearly 6k wings of Resolve(actually should be closer to 7k with the outgoing heal effectiveness) and 7k+ Receive the Light for burst healing. And that’s not even everything available, but typically more than enough to get the job done.
It’s no druid (druid’s honestly OP and if anyone tells you otherwise they’re a liar) but when you’re all sticking together it’s very very solid, just that range healing that’s not there (teleport/leap heals, but you have to move there basically).
It’s no druid (druid’s honestly OP and if anyone tells you otherwise they’re a liar) but when you’re all sticking together it’s very very solid, just that range healing that’s not there (teleport/leap heals, but you have to move there basically).
I’d almost look at Guardian healing more compared to Water Staff Elementalist healing. It’s all about lots of smaller consistant heals while the Druid is about really big heals but not nearly as often. Once you compare it to Elementalist you start to realize that Guardian healing is terrible because there is not a good weapon to use for it. I personally believe that the staff should be looked at by the developers and made into an actual healing weapon instead of the random stick of mob tagging it is. And improving the staff would not be hard to do either:
Skill 1 – make it heal allies that are in the cone in compariable numbers to Water 1.
Skill 2 – increase the CD to 10s and make it ground targetted. It would heal those it passes through and detonate on spot for more healing. Being a blast finisher wouldn’t hurt either.
Skill 3 – make the symbol pulse a little bit of healing baseline.
Skill 4 – this thing should honestly heal per pulse and in total heal for 5-6k in healing gear and not the trash it heals now. I’d also remove the might stacking for condition removal and regeneration.
Skill 5 – allies who pass through it are healed.
Honestly the biggest problems with Guardian healing are the fact that the staff is outdated and a relic from the time when Anet didn’t want anyone playing main healer but wanted to give a support weapon. If the staff was made for an elite specialization it would do so much more than it does now. And of all the classes that heal, Guardian should be the best at it because it was supposed to be the class that was the closest to the monk.
Most of this is a thought from looking at the raid scene. Why Rangers and Elementalist heal raids and the Guardian, who was supposed to be the Monk replacement, doesn’t is beyond me.
I think Guardian is really fine as a suporter, ic them mostly like a prot monk with minor healing, like the gw1 monks, since we can heal and negate/mitigate damage, also guardian is strong at removing condition from group.
Guardian can have a quite 5k+ aoe heals :\
-Wing of resolve X2 with RF arround 5k-6k per target 2 times.
-The signet the no ones use can heal party to full back. Still 5 man guard party running that signet will heal alot, for a defensive build group, each guard would heal arround 1.2k to 1.4 (max i healled with that was arround 1.8k/9).
-SW bow command can heal arround 4k-5k with all those ticks, 2 or 3 guards heal spike with that, and heal alot of players. (the issue is the bow AI that thinks it is a melee weapon)
-Mace heal goes arround 400-650 every 3rd chain AA.
-Santuary scales with the number of players inside.
-blocks can heal arround 1200 party members(while removeing condis or/and damage target), and we have a good number of blocks.
-dodges go arround 1k+
-Empower heals 2k+
All i can say is that guardian is really decent at this, but i would not mind a buff on shouts heal or boon duration >:}, and a buff on force of will healling effectivness to 1.4 or 1.6 >:} competing with the shouts for 2 strong support options.
I think this would reduce the number of trappers and people would try something else to. :P, and we migh also see more than trappers at pvp.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Thanks for the responses all. Was frustrated and tired last night and could have articulated my frustrations better.
I’m sick of defaulting to damage roles and looking for a wvw zerg healing build. I’m not coming up with anything that looks and feels right for mass combat, so any direction and build recommendation would be appreciated.
(edited by Swagger.1459)
It’s no druid (druid’s honestly OP and if anyone tells you otherwise they’re a liar) but when you’re all sticking together it’s very very solid, just that range healing that’s not there (teleport/leap heals, but you have to move there basically).
I’d almost look at Guardian healing more compared to Water Staff Elementalist healing. It’s all about lots of smaller consistant heals while the Druid is about really big heals but not nearly as often. Once you compare it to Elementalist you start to realize that Guardian healing is terrible because there is not a good weapon to use for it. I personally believe that the staff should be looked at by the developers and made into an actual healing weapon instead of the random stick of mob tagging it is. And improving the staff would not be hard to do either:
Skill 1 – make it heal allies that are in the cone in compariable numbers to Water 1.
Skill 2 – increase the CD to 10s and make it ground targetted. It would heal those it passes through and detonate on spot for more healing. Being a blast finisher wouldn’t hurt either.
Skill 3 – make the symbol pulse a little bit of healing baseline.
Skill 4 – this thing should honestly heal per pulse and in total heal for 5-6k in healing gear and not the trash it heals now. I’d also remove the might stacking for condition removal and regeneration.
Skill 5 – allies who pass through it are healed.Honestly the biggest problems with Guardian healing are the fact that the staff is outdated and a relic from the time when Anet didn’t want anyone playing main healer but wanted to give a support weapon. If the staff was made for an elite specialization it would do so much more than it does now. And of all the classes that heal, Guardian should be the best at it because it was supposed to be the class that was the closest to the monk.
Most of this is a thought from looking at the raid scene. Why Rangers and Elementalist heal raids and the Guardian, who was supposed to be the Monk replacement, doesn’t is beyond me.
Yup it does compare to Ele better, I made the comparison to Druid as they’re the premier healer, and I think a lot of that is due to the fact that they can range heal so well. Guardians have solid burst healing, it’s just that it all has to be near them, unlike the other two which have great and practical range options.
Thanks for the responses all. Was frustrated and tired last night and could have articulated my frustrations better.
I’m sick of defaulting to damage roles and looking for a wvw zerg healing build. I’m not coming up with anything that looks and feels right for mass combat, so any direction and build recommendation would be appreciated.
With all the range aoe spam is bit hard, since we need to go on melee to be good at it.
Im runing something arround this since i cant make ascended :P
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
It’s no druid (druid’s honestly OP and if anyone tells you otherwise they’re a liar) but when you’re all sticking together it’s very very solid, just that range healing that’s not there (teleport/leap heals, but you have to move there basically).
Guardian healing is terrible because there is not a good weapon to use for it.
.
Mace – Auto Attack has an AoE Heal. Mace Skill 2 is an AoE that applies regeneration and further HoT if Trait’d, Mace 3 now applies aegis which when trait’d can heal allies on block
Shield – Applies Aegis on skill 4, Large Area Heal on Skill 5 detonation with projectiles destruction
Staff – Orb of Light(Ranged) heals when passing through allies and has a 3sec CD when not detonated for consistent healing with the option to detonate it for a large area heal on a 10sec CD, Empower has a decent CD while providing medium healing and might. Staff also has a Symbol which can be trait’d to heal.
All healing above deals over 1.2k, has High HoT, and relatively Short CDs and very short CDs when trait’d
Comparing these to the Elementalist’s Weapon Heals ours are arguably better when Cooldown, heal amount, and boon application are taken into consideration. Specially Staff Ele which most of its Healing is on 20sec+ CDs.
Dagger Heals are horrendous…
Scepter would have pretty decent healing if it wasnt for its relatively long CD to Heal ratio.
Warhorns healing is also held back a fair bit by its relatively long CDs
You can trait them to have 20% CD Reduction but they still have decently long CDs
What really made Elementalist a viable healer in the first place wasnt even its weapon healing skills. It was the Elemental Bastion Trait and the Elementalists ability to constantly pop out Auras for 1.5k Heals or higher along with “Wash the Pain Away” if more intensive healing was needed. It had Water Fields and what not but the long CD pretty much lent them to only being used in emergencies.
as a side note
Ive also personally Raid Healed as a Guardian and its perfectly viable in fights that have the group huddling up like Sabetha.
Thats the major thing holding Guardian back as a major healer… Its limited range…
(edited by Azure.8926)
Again the main difference between us and the other healing options is we HAVE to be right there. You could argue Orb, but… really?
So for WvW Zerging that means you can’t just be a healer as you’ll be up in the frontline. So mixing healing with defensive things is key. And Hammer to blast water fields can be awesome (as well as it’s other skills like immobilize). Wings and Merciful Intervention (if you want) along with orb as your on the move heals, then regroup and blast or empower. At least that’s how we’ve done it when I play WvW. Guard is your stability (so boon duration can help), some healing, control effects like pull, and then the meatshields that rush in first.
Comparing these to the Elementalist’s Weapon Heals ours are arguably better when Cooldown, heal amount, and boon application are taken into consideration. Specially Staff Ele which most of its Healing is on 20sec+ CDs.
Until you remember that Water 1 puts out 1k heals ever 3/4s and puts mace auto to shame and staff in even worse position. Thier passive heal for being in water also puts in traited Resolve to shame as well by healing for ~300 more. Then there is the regen uptime that heals for ~1.2k/s. Guardian can only keep up that much regen by camping mace and then you have a really kittenty auto heal. Aegis healing is also so sketchy that I would never depend on it. And elementalist dodge rolls for 3.3k every 10s, not to mention the water fields they can blast.
PS. Remember this is all with thought to raids and not PvP for my perspective. Matthias mainly.
Guard can heal arround 800 with mace and 700 with simbols 3k with empower etc, but statwise is not good to play with this values, due aoe+range is the only and best way to leech wins.
Shout guard(the utilities)are still weak :P
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Snip
Most of this is a thought from looking at the raid scene. Why Rangers and Elementalist heal raids and the Guardian, who was supposed to be the Monk replacement, doesn’t is beyond me.
This so much, and yes, the staff is horribly outdated. A mini-rework like something you suggested would be very appreciated. Although if the next elite spec has tomes, then at least healer guardians won’t be forced to rely on the staff.
(edited by Fashion Mage.3712)
Thier passive heal for being in water also puts in traited Resolve to shame as well by healing for ~300 more.
Dunno if you have considred this but the skill calc has wrong values on the scaling of soothing mist. It actually has a 1.0 scaling that you can double if you trait for it. The traited virtue would heal roughly for 300 every sec while the mist easily heals for over 800 in that timeframe. Even if you took the fully traited elite healing signet as well you still wouldn’t even come close. Not to mention that the signet only triggers every 10 secs and gets 300 range…
Thier passive heal for being in water also puts in traited Resolve to shame as well by healing for ~300 more.
Dunno if you have considred this but the skill calc has wrong values on the scaling of soothing mist. It actually has a 1.0 scaling that you can double if you trait for it. The traited virtue would heal roughly for 300 every sec while the mist easily heals for over 800 in that timeframe. Even if you took the fully traited elite healing signet as well you still wouldn’t even come close. Not to mention that the signet only triggers every 10 secs and gets 300 range…
I think we’re both agreeing that the Guardian aura heals sucks in comparison? Like I’m pretty sure an Elementalist could just auto attack with soothing mist traited and heal more than a Guard.
The ironic part is that Battle Presence got nerfed despite already being sub-par.
Yet again I’m trying to build a heal support oriented character… Yet again I’m met with frustration… Some of us don’t want to play “Damage” or “Damage with support light”, we want like good and effective and worthwhile roles to play…
The Healing Power scaling is so extremely poor for Guardian skills that heal, and this needs to be reevaluated. Overall, heal support skills and stats and traits and gear and “stuff”… needs to be improved across the board, but let’s at least start improving Healing Power scaling for the current heal skills we have…
sometimes i try to play with “receive the light” (i like it in pve) but really, healing power sclaling is soo bad…
The ironic part is that Battle Presence got nerfed despite already being sub-par.
How?
The ironic part is that Battle Presence got nerfed despite already being sub-par.
How?
It used to function regardless of whether or not Virtue of Resolve was on cooldown. Then they made it so that VoR had to be up. Coincidentally, they also nerfed base virtue range at the time by 600 for some reason, making them go from mediocre to trash.
The ironic part is that Battle Presence got nerfed despite already being sub-par.
How?
It used to function regardless of whether or not Virtue of Resolve was on cooldown. Then they made it so that VoR had to be up. Coincidentally, they also nerfed base virtue range at the time by 600 for some reason, making them go from mediocre to trash.
Ah ok. I remember when it did work like that! I totally forgot about it.
TL;DR – Guardian’s Healing Power Coefficient/Scaling is HIGH AS HELL what are you talking about?
I dont know ive messed with Guardian’s Healing Power scaling, not in PvP mind you. But in most instances even using Healing Power Minor stat sets like Zealots the Guardian gains 1.5~2.0x additional healing on most skills.
Compared to other classes the Guardian’s Healing Power Coefficient is ridiculously high and not only that but you can bypass those Healing Power Soft Caps by using Out-going Healing effectiveness to increase your healing to allies Drastically.(Most Numbers are rounded from me being lazy to look up the exact value in game and do not take Out-Going Healing Effectiveness into account unless stated AND using Minor Healing Power 1200~1400)
“Signet of Courage” can go from 800 Base healing all the way up to 2.2k Healing per 10seconds which can be further increased drastically to nearly 3.4k per 10seconds using Out-going healing effectiveness and the “Perfect Inscriptions” Trait.
As a Guardian you are applying constant healing with anything you do to your allies when Spec’d right the only downside is they have to be huddled up pretty close to you.“Selfless Daring” like stated above can easily do over 1k healing in an area even with Minor Healing Power Gear.
“Monk’s Focus” can do nearly 3k Healing up from 1.9k
“Virtue of Resolve” can have its indicated healing increased from 300 to over 600 if its fully Trait’d and be shared between allies.
“Pure of Heart” can be increased to over 1300 healing when Aegis breaks up from 600 AND this applies on allies when they block using an Aegis you have applied from either Shouts, Mace Skills, or “Communal Defense” Trait.
“Writ of Persistence” is increased from 100 to 200 Healing per tick which may not seem a lot but like with regeneration this is per tick and adds up very quickly.
“Regeneration(10secs)” Can be increased from 1700 to 3000 and you have a lot of ways of applying regeneration to allies and ties into Writ of Persistence for giving high per tick healing
-Staff Weapon-
“Orb of Light” can do 540 when passing through allies and an additional 1640 on detonation up from 200 and 700.
“Empower” can do 2800 up from 1500
-Mace-
“Faithful Strike” can heal nearly 1300 in a small area and thats an Auto Attack.“Receive the Light” can be increased to Allied Healing per Pulse 1500 for FIVE PULSES over the course of 3seconds.
“Merciful Intervention” can be increased to nearly 3000 as a Teleport and Area Heal.
So if I use a variation of this with http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Symbolic Mace/Shield/Hammer Ascended Zerker Weps/Jewlry/ Back and exotic Cleric Armor would I be able to Face Tank 5 man content and be immortal Face Tanking open world through Healing and PermProtection?
Oldirtbeard.9834, no and if u fully invest in healing power u will killed easilly by some mobs to.
There are better classes for damage and face tank, guardian has mostly support skills not self sustain skills.
Base health should be 15k since we cant reset combats, we dont run aways like GS warriors… dont have water fields, lacks of mobility outside meditations etc.
I still think we need more a little bit health.. to sustain our support. :P , wich would help out healing power scale with the +300 vit skill by a good ammount.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
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