Guild Wars 2

Apparently “Two-Handed Mastery” (20% CD reduction on 2H weapons) and “Elusive Power” (10% damage when endurance is not full) won’t be part of expansion. Getting the Hammer reduced CD will required to invest in virtues and to sacrifice “Absolute Precision” (3 condis cured) which is, at my opinion, way more useful. Removing “Elusive Power” is a little nerf, though i can understand this line should be more “defensive” focused.

I’m really looking forward the merge of shouts and symbols traits, but i feel like “Pure of Heart” is a bit underpowered to be on master trait. Why not replacing it by Hammer reduced CD ? Just my point of view.

Elusive power was not a dps gain it was compensation for dps lost when you evaded trying to maintain the bonus would result in a loss of dps especially with 50% vigor uptime. 2 handed weapon mastery got split and merged into zealous greatsword, the new staff trait and virtuous mallet.
But I agree that some of our weaker traits should be merged.

I understand the weapon’s matery split, though, i would see something more like this:

Zeal: Greatsword and scepter seems fine, dps focused trait line (=> Greatsword + Scepter)

Radiance: Sword and torch, dps focused 1handed weapon trait line (=> Sword + torch)

Valor: focus seems quite ok for Retributive Armor (though ferocity is crap so i highly doubt anyone will takt that trait), but i would rather see a staff instead a shield (thus playing staff in medit dps or support build will be very possible) (=> Focus + staff)

Honor: mace seems ok with symbol trait, but i would rather see hammer instead of staff for symbols too on autoattack (=> Mace + Hammer)

Virtues: Not hammer then, Shield instead because of the consecrations. (=> Shield)

Dragon Hunter: well if there will be a longbow CD trait, it should obviously be there.

And about the honor traits : replacing “Purity of Body” by “Elusive Defense” and merging “Purity of Body” with “Pure of Heart” or some other weaker traits ?

i dont like the adepts for the honor trait line, at least from a WvW perspective…

i mean i understand Invigorated Bulwark, and i think its a great idea for mace users in pvp. But i feel that the other two traits Protective Reviver and Protector’s Impact are the worst things to put in the adept slot…

i dont have very much experience in pvp, but are there really that many high locations / platforms to fall from? and do we really need a revival trait, since most of the community don’t res the dead in most PvE content because its a loss of dps.

from a WvW zerging / small group / roaming mentality the only kinda worthwhile choice would be the falling trait, or maybe the revival trait. no matter how i see it these 2 traits are HORRIBLE choices. I mean they are adepts but id choose none of the 3 they are giving us since they dont really give us much. Am i wrong in this case?

I don’t know man. All the endurance we’re getting + the increase to outgoing heals if you take FoW more than makes up for it in my opinion. I’m honestly torn between radiance and honor as my final trait line at the moment and honor seems like its going to win out unless some numbers change.

I’ll agree, though, that the adept honor traits are bad. There aren’t many ledges you could suffer fall damage from in PvP and forcing it just to proc that trait is really dumb. Not every build uses mace, although the protective reviver trait isn’t too bad, since it has some synergy with dulled senses to make it a tad bit more difficult to interrupt a heal, although I’d tie at least 2-3 stacks of stability to the resser, considering the trait has a 60s CD.

i think someone in a prev thread suggested merging the honor adepts, falling + reviver, and putting elusive power as the 3rd trait.

its a good idea

I Dont get what the problem is with protective reviver. Its a great trait. And will be Even better with 3s haste from our new elite shout. It has no icd so in worldboss events you got. permanent boons on you.

My only gripe is the fall Reduction trait. They are still just a filler.

i dont really think protective reviver is bad, but look at the adepts. you have a buff to mace for healing power to yourself, you have the ability to revive an ally and give boons (group support) and then you have falling damage reduction… how does this help anyone? the mace trait is only a personal buff, reviver is more for group help, but the final choice helps no one but yourself (some times, in rare cases).

like i said in my post, in WvW how do these adepts help anyone including yourself? the mace in WvW zergs is not used reviving is pointless since if you stay in one spot for too long you’ll die, and falling off cliffs is suicide or a short cut and you’re out of combat most of the time and you heal back to full in seconds. the Adept line in one of the most crucial build lines for WvW has been made bad.

in Pvp ill concede the PR (protective reviver) is good and maybe the mace trait, but you never fall from a great height in pvp maps. i think the falling damage trait should be merged or moved to a different line so that honor has a mix of traits that benefit all modes. Hardly any one uses it for 100% of ALL game modes.

i appreciate what the devs are doing to open up more builds but in this case theyre giving us the choice between two “ok” traits and filler.

thoughts?

Honestly I think they could just delete the fall damage trait and the reaction would be anything from not caring to thank yous because it would mean something new could be added.

As for what to put there IDK. Personally I’d love to see the symbol grand master moved down a tier even if it had to lose the “Symbols now heal with every pulse”

I mean face it the healing was rather small anyway & if it were in a lower tier they could create something really nice for a grand master.

Looking around at some of the traits that other classes got there are some really really nice things they could add in its place or in a grand master slot if they wanted to.

Mace symbol + symbol heal trait + vor = healing signet for 6 seconds which can be spammed like crazy mid fight while blocking, dodging and generally not dying and would make denying points really easy. If anything, honor and mace is going to be like dragonhunter and lb.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Mace symbol + symbol heal trait + vor = healing signet for 6 seconds which can be spammed like crazy mid fight while blocking, dodging and generally not dying and would make denying points really easy. If anything, honor and mace is going to be like dragonhunter and lb.

thats fine an all, but like Zxaviar said, the line should be able to sync w/ more than just mace users. if u aren’t using mace, the adept honor traits are just a waste

In my opinion, all adept traits in honor are too weak (if I could choose, I would choose none). Even in master are weak. The only traits that would be useful to take are in gm. I don’t belive that will ever use this line again, but at least I’ll give a try.

At least Zeal is viable now.

What I don’t like is they are keeping too much useless traits, they should be merged or replaced:

• Wrathful Spirit;
• Healer’s Retribution;
• Radiant Retaliation;
• Stalwart Defender (both weapon and trait are weak);

Jaxom.7310:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Mace symbol + symbol heal trait + vor = healing signet for 6 seconds which can be spammed like crazy mid fight while blocking, dodging and generally not dying and would make denying points really easy. If anything, honor and mace is going to be like dragonhunter and lb.

thats fine an all, but like Zxaviar said, the line should be able to sync w/ more than just mace users. if u aren’t using mace, the adept honor traits are just a waste

I’ll agree that the adept honor traits are pretty slim in terms of the pickings and need to be looked at but non-mace users can pick protective reviver which, on its own without any valor/DH trait synergy, is already amazing in terms of support.

SlayerSixx.5763:

I’ll agree that the adept Honor traits are pretty slim in terms of the pickings and need to be looked at but non-mace users can pick protective reviver which, on its own without any valor/DH trait synergy, is already amazing in terms of support.

my dude i agree with what you’re saying but let me just give you a hypothetical situation with all respect.

you’re in SW trying to do the lanes, would you really use mace? probably, more than likely not so you really wouldn’t need the mace trait. would you stop to revive someone who is fully down at one of the champions and risk failing the event? I mean honestly i would revive them because im a good person but lets say they need 5% more before the boss is dead would you risk losing the boss reviving or would you attack the crap out of the champion? finally… where are you falling from in the final champion assault…?

do you see how only 1 of those 3 traits is even remotely useful? and even then if you are running the Honor line for the shouts the staff buff to support. do you see how the mace trait isnt a good choice in this situation? do you see how falling damage reduction would help you? every other trait line has a trait that helps you in every situation… Honors adepts don’t, they’re all situational. if someone doesn’t die around you in a dungeon (i know its very very rare but im trying to prove a point) how does revival help you in combat? how does reduced falling damage help?

the point im trying to make is Honor needs to be looked at and 1 of those 3 traits needs to be merged or moved in favor of bringing in something that works for any situation. Balancing around the PvP side is fine but like i said before some of these traits just don’t work and aren’t even remotely worth most peoples time (specifically the fall damage trait which i hate seeing in an adept line, im sorry but i think that trait should burn and rot).

Bottom line Honor needs to be looked into and things need to be moved around to make the adept and master lines aren’t great and if these changes shipped tomorrow i dont think Honor would be used, if it was it would be reluctantly and only because shouts are the meta. anyway that’s my two cents.

Let’s not forget mace’s trait gives CD reduction. Just wanted to reiterate that.

As for the others, you get fall damage jumping off walls in wvw (and the new bls have tons of verticality). In PvP I’m sure there’s places you can proc the trait too (I just don’t know them off hand, but every map has somewhere I can think of)

Protective reviver also doesn’t require you to solo rez people fully dead either. There are plenty of instances in every game mode that you can revive downed, or flash a rez to get the bubble and have it be perfectly useful. It’s certainly a trick I use as a mesmer, finding some random npc every 10 seconds to proc my feedback on revive. Are they the sexiest minors? Probably not, but they fit the bill and do what they’re supposed to.

Zxavier Augistine.7312:

SlayerSixx.5763:

I’ll agree that the adept Honor traits are pretty slim in terms of the pickings and need to be looked at but non-mace users can pick protective reviver which, on its own without any valor/DH trait synergy, is already amazing in terms of support.

my dude i agree with what you’re saying but let me just give you a hypothetical situation with all respect.

you’re in SW trying to do the lanes, would you really use mace? probably, more than likely not so you really wouldn’t need the mace trait. would you stop to revive someone who is fully down at one of the champions and risk failing the event? I mean honestly i would revive them because im a good person but lets say they need 5% more before the boss is dead would you risk losing the boss reviving or would you attack the crap out of the champion? finally… where are you falling from in the final champion assault…?

do you see how only 1 of those 3 traits is even remotely useful? and even then if you are running the Honor line for the shouts the staff buff to support. do you see how the mace trait isnt a good choice in this situation? do you see how falling damage reduction would help you? every other trait line has a trait that helps you in every situation… Honors adepts don’t, they’re all situational. if someone doesn’t die around you in a dungeon (i know its very very rare but im trying to prove a point) how does revival help you in combat? how does reduced falling damage help?

the point im trying to make is Honor needs to be looked at and 1 of those 3 traits needs to be merged or moved in favor of bringing in something that works for any situation. Balancing around the PvP side is fine but like i said before some of these traits just don’t work and aren’t even remotely worth most peoples time (specifically the fall damage trait which i hate seeing in an adept line, im sorry but i think that trait should burn and rot).

Bottom line Honor needs to be looked into and things need to be moved around to make the adept and master lines aren’t great and if these changes shipped tomorrow i dont think Honor would be used, if it was it would be reluctantly and only because shouts are the meta. anyway that’s my two cents.

well said. the traits are too situational and don’t work for someone who isn’t playing in those situations

I’ll (still) agree that the adept honor traits could use a decent amount of reworking, but to say that the entire tree is weak is wrong. I know for a fact that I’ll enjoy the tree when I’m tryharding (not using shouts) because I can now take EM and FoW without penalty now. What with purity of body being made into a minor trait, we’ll have tons of dodge rolls which just means we can drop even more defense for offense which is too sweet.

Also, iirc, honor was meant to be a defensive/supportive tree. They’ve already given us increased heals from FoW, increased toughness from SiN, more dodge rolls from PoB, VoC recharge when you rally or help an ally rally which would stack very nicely with protective reviver’s bonus, the bonus from the adept minor in virtues, the bonus from the master minor in virtues all stacking to give you craploads of protection, aegis, retal, regen all at once after ressing which is facilitated by the bubble blocking projectiles and the stab you get from the virtues line which, in some cases, can be a very viable backup to banner or even straight up compete (imagine having a team mate getting focused and you collapsing on their body to res them,knocking them back and crippling them as you’re unable to be stopped, while dropping a bubble that allows your team mates to hide in and pew pew and then you vomiting out stability, protection, aegis for your team mates and even more for you and your fallen team mate). Can you see why this would be an amazing alternative? Team mates WILL die in any given fight, especially when both sides are equally skilled. Why focus on something that bolsters your already easy PvE experience? You already get enough damage from zeal, radiance, valor, and even DH, so what you recommend they put in place of the current honor adept traits? What do you think guard can get that they don’t already have? Well, we could probably get a swiftness on crit, but swiftness AND vigor on crit would be a little crazy.

Slayer i was reading your comment at work and i took most of my day thinking about how best to respond, you can probably tell i was very productive, and i can say that swiftness and vigor on crits is much too insane i mean no way should we have access to that.

I was thinking what if we take my most hated trait and we add a secondary effect to it? fall damage is reduced AND if we are hit below a health threshold we and up to 5 people around us gain a light aura for 3 seconds? Or if that is too much, how about falling damage reduction and when below a certain HP you gain 1 random boon?

Really i want there to be more diversity in our builds, and i dont think ALL of Honor is bad i just think that the traits need to have more Oomph something that makes you think and kill yourself to choose between 2 traits to use. already if these traits ship today and i had to run a shout build in WvW, id have to take falling damage reduction, staff mastery, shouts. if i ran another build that follows our “current day” meta in WvW, its shouts using the same set up. Honor is the shout line to many people and it shouldnt have to be that way. it should have more accesses to support than just shouts. what if it used other means to support your party?

off the top of my head what if there was a trait that shared the boons you have active, but only a limited amount of that boon. So you run meditations and you gain might from a meditation let’s say 3 stacks of might you have a trait that copies 1 might and gives it to an ally? I know guards do that now, to some extent, but how about a trait that amplifies that effect?

(also sorry for my constant long posts)

^I like that idea, but wouldn’t it be too strong for the adept spot? I’m guessing master and then moving another master trait down to take its place. Would it work for only boons that affect you, or boons that you already share meaning that you technically apply more of the same boon (think empower sharing 13-14+ might instead of 12). If it is that way, it would stack ridiculously well with AH and make the support guard really viable.

I agree that its strong but i feel that it should have an ICD of some kind to act as a limiter or use the same mechanic that the reaper has where the ability can only proc 2 or 3 times in 10 seconds. To answer your other question i think a way to further limit it would be to make it affect boons you apply to yourself if the ICD idea doesn’t work.

That’s the thing though, since I’m not sure we have any boon that cannot be shared. ICD sounds better, so we don’t just insta crap out every boon on the planet with SY.

this is why i think elusive power would be a good trait to include once again in honor. it syncs up w/ the dodging & crits concept the line supports.

Vigorous Precision Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.

Selfless Daring The end of your dodge roll heals nearby allies.

Empowering Might You and nearby allies gain might when you land a critical hit.

Purity of Body Your Virtue of Resolve passive effect also regenerates endurance.

edit: purity of body replaced elusive power i think, but it would work w/ it too

I suppose elusive power is probably the easiest fix if we actually want them to do anything for the adept honor without “extensive” testing.

ANET, MAKE IT SO.

Why not just get rid of it and create a truly useful trait.

For instance

“Protectors Compassion” X% of all healing received is shared with nearby allies. (400 unit range)

Could be 5-7% since its an adept. Or they could put it in a master slot and bump empowering might down a row.

Or they could just tie elusive power into it like jax says.

i like both of the ideas Ragnar and Jaxom posted. they sound like they fit right at home with the line. im not sure if the devs are reading this thread but they should put some serious consideration into these changes before the release of the trait changes.

They need to put another effect on Protector’s Impact. And all falling traits that doesn’t have a secondary effect. This applies to Elementalist, Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior and Engineer.

Thief and Necro already have secondary effects. In this way won’t be a wasted slot.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Why not just get rid of it and create a truly useful trait.

For instance

“Protectors Compassion” X% of all healing received is shared with nearby allies. (400 unit range)

Could be 5-7% since its an adept. Or they could put it in a master slot and bump empowering might down a row.

Or they could just tie elusive power into it like jax says.

They could add this effect in the Protector’s Impact. 5% is really very little. But would make this trait very interesting. But in a 240 radius, so they can’t say that is too powerful.

Mikau.6920:

They need to put another effect on Protector’s Impact. And all falling traits that doesn’t have a secondary effect. This applies to Elementalist, Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior and Engineer.

Thief and Necro already have secondary effects. In this way won’t be a wasted slot.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Why not just get rid of it and create a truly useful trait.

For instance

“Protectors Compassion” X% of all healing received is shared with nearby allies. (400 unit range)

Could be 5-7% since its an adept. Or they could put it in a master slot and bump empowering might down a row.

Or they could just tie elusive power into it like jax says.

They could add this effect in the Protector’s Impact. 5% is really very little. But would make this trait very interesting. But in a 240 radius, so they can’t say that is too powerful.

I also second this, even though i hate all the falling damage traits…

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Why not just get rid of it and create a truly useful trait.

For instance

“Protectors Compassion” X% of all healing received is shared with nearby allies. (400 unit range)

Could be 5-7% since its an adept. Or they could put it in a master slot and bump empowering might down a row.

Or they could just tie elusive power into it like jax says.

This would stack really well with FoW, but wouldn’t this be a little too strong with AH and a shoutbow or two :o?

i don’t really think it’ll be all that strong, it might put us on par with a healing revenant and would combo well with the backline roll they want to put us in with the DH. i mean 5-7% isnt all that strong 10-15%, maybe. still for a minor i think 10% is a good ballpark to aim for, its a nice rounded number imho.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Why not just get rid of it and create a truly useful trait.

For instance

“Protectors Compassion” X% of all healing received is shared with nearby allies. (400 unit range)

Could be 5-7% since its an adept. Or they could put it in a master slot and bump empowering might down a row.

Or they could just tie elusive power into it like jax says.

This would stack really well with FoW, but wouldn’t this be a little too strong with AH and a shoutbow or two :o?

The healing would actually be rather small at 7% but consistent & the range wouldn’t be all that big.

The only way i could really see it becoming strong is if you had a few shout bow warriors, someone to provide constant regeneration, altruistic healing. full shouts & a staff & a cleric build.
But at that point your sacrificing the vast majority of your damage anyway and the range would still only be like 240 or so.

Yea, you’d have full cleric/cele comps. Make it so the guardian has perma swiftness and call out when you’re about to heal. Literally the craziest amount of sustain ever. Imagine a mid fight with a cele staff bombing the point and blasting aoe heals while the guardian and shoutbow just rofltank the entire team while they have the luxury of sending a whole two players to rotate around far and home.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Yea, you’d have full cleric/cele comps. Make it so the guardian has perma swiftness and call out when you’re about to heal. Literally the craziest amount of sustain ever. Imagine a mid fight with a cele staff bombing the point and blasting aoe heals while the guardian and shoutbow just rofltank the entire team while they have the luxury of sending a whole two players to rotate around far and home.

Think you miss understand what I meant.

In order for the healing that would provide to be good at all you would have to have everyone in an entire team standing at one spot & for that team comp to consist of something like 2 cele shotbow warriors, 2 cele elementalists and a full cleric guardian.

Even then the healing received is a whopping 70 points for every thousand you get & would only heal allies within a very small radius which will make you extremely easy to cleave/AOE down.

So would tacking this effect on to protectors impact help make it a viable trait choice ? Ya in PVE & possibly WvW.

Would it make this trait be good for PvP ? ROFL no because you would get your entire team nuked by stacking them all together.

5% of a 2k heal would be 100hp. 5 players all spamming 2k heals is 500hp. Not gamebreaking, but makes a big difference when they’re all doing their own blocks/heals + the extra kitten. Also, they don’t HAVE to stand next to each other. They could call out burst heals and like BOOM, live forever. I’m not against it because this would take some serious teamwork and honestly, if they can co-ordinate heals so well they certainly could co-ordinate anything else to similar effect.

Not arguing btw, just imagining the possibilites :P.

i still think 10% is a much more viable option for an adept, i mean if they dont want to give guardians benevolence its really a small pat on the back for guards to have something like that as an adept.