Guild Wars 2

Hi guys.

I have been working on my Guardian WvW Build for quite a while now, but need some advice on the last few choices i have to make. Any advice will be much appreciated!

Link to build (Note: Stacking Weaponset Sigil shown on Spear):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWSlYg67WFyIEfIFRuA7DEETBGh/1DHmQGC-jUDBYLQoLAUgAEEIEBQZPFRjtMMsVXRr8KIabYKXER1mzDRzgO1SBUuwI-w

I intent to use this build mostly in medium to large group play in WvW, so for the majority of the time I will have at least 4 other allies in close proximity. This comes mostly into play when I am looking at the healing that I am getting from AH. The staff would be my main weapon when running in a zerg, while the hammer would be used for smaller encounters as well as for blasting fields.

I am having difficulty deciding on the following:

1. Food: Omnomberry Pie vs Bowl of Lemongrass poultry. I am not sure if my current setup will be more susceptible to direct damage or condis. I already have 3 condi removals every 10s, but with lemongrass I would be almost immune. Omnomberry gives me 325 hp/s + 325 dmg/s. Chocolate Omnomberry Cream also looks tempting…

2. Empowering Might vs Two Handed Mastery:
EM adds about (5×70) hp/s to my regular staff attacks, while also obviously getting the benefit of the might. Two Handed Mastery reduces the time between Staff#4’s to 16s, which makes the 12 stacks might almost permanent + making the 6K heal from Empower on a shorter cooldown.

3. Maintenance Oil vs Sharpening Stones:
I have no idea if I would benefit more from Precision or Power.

4. Sigil of Bloodlust or Perception for Stacking Weaponset:
Same problem as above.

Any advice on the above listed or any further comments will be much appreciated!

Edit: Added the 1-4 numbering

looking at your build here would be my suggestions:

Food: if you are running larger groups, lemongrass all the way. the current condition meta is insane, and with our lower health pools, we really need all the condition removal we can get. if you are running small groups then omnom might be ok, but honestly your crit is a bit low to make the best out of it (it really works best with higher crit builds, just because of the ICD)

EM vs THM: EM all the way. 35%ish chance to heal you for 350 and the ability to keep up around 5-6 might stacks on allies is amazing. As much as I love THM, EM is just the better choice with your build in regards to survivability and group support.

Oil vs Stones + sigil: I would use stones and sigil of perception in your situation. Oil + perception would be too much crit, Oil + bloodlust wouldn’t be enough, So I think that stones + perception would be correct, especially with your possible might stacks.

Bonus tip!: Switch out signet of judgement for contemplation of purity. though the sigil is nice, and gives both aoe retail and weakness, you NEED some form of on demand condition removal outside of the passive ones, even more so when you end up screwing yourself with SY (which is going to happen at some point, as it does to all of us) And also for when your just get overloaded on conditions, because if you get stuck where all 3 of your passives are on their 10s cds, you are fairly screwed >.<

Thanks for your comments Bash!

For (3)-(4) I were leaning towards your suggestions, so that’s great. The one I was having most difficulty with was the EM vs THM and I think your post have made me realize that EM is just superior, even though THM will be missed! I might still swap EM out for TBH in certain situations (Blasting water fields when we are ramming + lighting fields when we are out of combat), but when the zergs are clashing, I’ll make sure to have EM!

For the bonus part, I was mostly using the SoJ for the -10% damage reduction, since as far as I know this stacks with protection to be 43%. You do bring up a good point about not having an active way to deal with condis. If I did use SY+CoP, it would have the added benefit of cleansing allies as well. I also need to look into if CoP gives only a single stack of boons or a number based on the number of condi stacks you had. In the 2nd case it might be massive, as the heal would also be substantial. Another option might be to go with 6x Lyssa runes for the active cleanse, but my current runes might be better overall due to Blasts lasting 50% longer.

For the (1): I was hoping that since the staff hits up to 5 times and twice a second, that in zerg situations I would be able to keep up with the ICD @ 40% crit chance. Even then, I’m not sure how much condi damage I typically get in a 10s window, so it would be hard to compare the health gained through Omnom vs. the condi reduction of lemongrass. It might be best to just carry both and use when appropriate. Luckily it is the easiest one to change.

Thanks again for your input!

Is this a WvW small group and/or roam build? What Tier are you in? Your toughness levels concern me, armor value is decent. If I may, I am going to offer a much better build that is comparable to yours but its survivability is far more than yours.

Again, this is just an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2oZjIuKX0&list=TLmtkx4Cl4NNQ

Rigel.3092:

Is this a WvW small group and/or roam build? What Tier are you in? Your toughness levels concern me, armor value is decent. If I may, I am going to offer a much better build that is comparable to yours but its survivability is far more than yours.

Again, this is just an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2oZjIuKX0&list=TLmtkx4Cl4NNQ

Read the OP, says right in there mid to large group fighting. Tier shouldn’t really matter as once numbers start going to 15+ there is not going to be any build difference between that and if you were fighting 60 people.

Also his build has plenty enough armor, I personally run around that much if not less and have no issue in large group fights. As for being comparable it really is not, his will have much better damage in trade for your survivability, however his active healing is also alot more than what the build you show has, so how much more survivability you have is really up for debate.

@Brafius:

No problem, as far as runes go I would stick with what you have, boon duration with EM/Staff is really good for team fights and also helps with hammer’s protection and any boons you give through blast finishers. If you really want to try some other runes out though I would suggest a few different ones that run a gambit of defensive and offensive styles. 6xMelandru’s for some added defense/condition duration/stun duration reduction, 6xHoelbrak for power, might duration and condition duration reduction, 6xPack for power/perc/chance to give fury/might/swiftness to allies (which will trigger 15 procs of AH total) Or 5x citadel + 1 orb for power/really good fury uptime. Honestly though, I would stick with what you have for now, since you said you are going to stick to mid/large group fighting.

The armor value on my build is a bit misleading, since it does not show the 150 Toughness you get from Strength in Numbers. With SiN, it comes to about 3k. My current build that I am running sits @ 3.2k, which has always been sufficient for me in our Tier. We are #13 ranked EU server.
Another large part of my survivability comes from the 10% damage reduction of SoJ. According to posts that I have read on the forums, this equates to roughly 300 Toughness. I’m not 100% sure of the math, but from my own experience my current build is very tanky @ 3.2k when I have SoJ on. Ofc, just before the zergs clash I would also get 15sec of protection from SY.
If I do need more toughness, I could look @ changing out some of my trinkets to knights, but if I am survivable enough without doing that, I would prefer to keep my jewelry as is.

The build you linked to is indeed very nice. I have seen quite a few of his builds on youtube and they are very good. For my build I am trying to lean more towards putting out some decent damage while still being quite survivable.

How much zerg fighting have you done in WvW to date, Brafius?

Bash.7291:

Rev

Last I looked on BG (given I was in HB and ran a lot with MERC, BT, GoF and ICoA), you guys are few and in-between.

Yes, the OP could opt for a healway, full support, etc. if he is running primarily mid-to-large zerg type WvW environments. I am sure that once he gets into WvW and runs a lot of zerg environments, he will adjust his build accordingly. Personally, I enjoy running around with 2250+ toughness, 3450+ armor, 1950+ power, 30% CC and CD along with 19350+ health (even more since I finally completed the fortitude boost – also, the stats indicated are unbuffed) with Soldier runes.

Thanks Bash

Those runes you mention are very intriguing. I have used 2x Melandru before to get the 10% reduction. With the way ticks are calculated you actually gain way more that 10% from any condi reduction (it might as well say -1sec condi duration). Hoelbrak is also one I have considered, but when you have SY it is hard to say no to 45% boon duration! The citadel one I actually use on my PvP build (Monks Focus + Medi) for that Fury proc. The one that have really perked my interest though is the pack one. Fury is an amazing boon and to give it to your allies would be great in an zerg. The one thing that always makes me weary of the 5% on hit runes is that I am not sure how often it procs, as I have no clue how many hits I am actually taking. I think you are right in saying that my current ones will probably be best for this build, but I cant help but imagine a tanky Pack-rune build where you run with the DPS part of your zerk and try and take hits!

Rigel,

I have done a decent amount. I think I am at rank 105 or something. Most of that was done before they made it so much quicker to level. At least it now hurts less that I spent 40pts before realizing about the fortitude boost! I am actually much newer to the game though, since I play almost exclusively WvW. I think I have 2.5k AP. This is one of the reasons I want to fine-tune my build before buying the gear, because the finances are low due to little PVE play. For extra lol: my map completion sits at 27%!

the 5% on hit really seems to proc a decent amount in zerg fights, just because of all the aoe and random damage being thrown about. the only downside is that pack’s effect only lasts 5 seconds pre boon duration, where as something like citadel is alot nicer since its a full 30 second duration. But yeah, it does help, and is a free 1k heal with AH as well.

Bash,

Thanks for all your input. Your previous post about getting hit a lot had me thinking. The only reason I am taking signet mastery from the Radiance line, is to reduce the cooldown on Signet of Resolve, since I intend to never use SoJ for anything else apart from a final stun break. And I only really chose SoR for the condi removal. A better balance for my build might be to go for shelter, lemongrass and the either Blind Exposure or Inner Fire (burning is very common in zergs fights, so this would be up a lot). I would be losing quite a bit of direct damage survivability through the loss of omnom pie, but I would gain a lot if condi survival instead. I also think my damage output will be higher due to the fury uptime. Your thoughts?

First i would swap build slightly.

Pure of voice is just to good to pass on, even with just one shout its great teamsupport and you have two. Compare aoe 2*condi removal with what you get for 15 points in raidance. With PoV you could narrow down your choice of food.

So i would go for 0/x/30/30/x.

I would also use 2*(water+monk+traveler) which would mean 50-55% boon duration.

Personally i almost never use empowering might since the aoe is just so tiny, we are talking about like 280-350, havent been able to test it any more precise than that.

Lowered cooldown on staff in combination boon duration is much better tbh.

EM is nice if you plan to be close and personal with a melee team and in coordinated team play. If you are a bunch of friends that join up casually it becomes more of selfish trait with a very random effect on the team.

Swap out SyS for HtL. SyS can be close to suicide and HtL is teamwide.

Swap the signet heal for shelter, the block alone is great when you over stretch you self. Combine that with constant vigor and ofc sigil of energy and you can pretty much be bubbled up for 10s straight. Dodge+dodge+shelter+renewed focus+dodge+swap (during dodge)+dodge.

Swap signet of judgement for hallowed ground, wall of reflection or judges intervention. If you pop in SoJ you should focus in retaliation imo and a 0/0/30/20/20 might be smarter.

When it comes to food i would go for precision food, but that’s me, you will get more damage (slightly) from power food but bursting will be much less based on pure luck. I like when my dps is predictable which makes walking the line a bit easier and you are less likely to overstretch due to bad luck when going for a kill.

As i said i would go for sigil of energy and i wouldnt use sigil of bloodlust/accuracy. I play mostly in small groups/raids and i die from time to time and i just think its a drag when i die with bloodlust when i could have survived with energy.

But if i had to choose i would choose stacking precison because they are cheaper and as i said i like my dps to be predictable and it also supports the changes i suggest in traits.

Brutaly,

Thanks for your input! The changes that you are suggesting are actually really close to what I am currently running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWSlUg67WFyLEf4ERWBRi9AjZsjXPcYCZIA-jEDBoLBiCEgiAhIAK7pIasltht6KalXBRZDTDjIq2cORG0DrWKgyFGB-w

The differences between what you are suggesting and my current build would be to swap out SY for HtL and change the sigils on my weapons. I think these would be great changes. I’m not sure that my armor/jewelry in this build is the best choice, but it was my first set of exotic/ascended and finances are tight, so I had to stick with it. I have now saved up enough to get a new full set of armor/jewelry(better rewards in WvW + LS helped here). I guess the question that would then be the most important would be regarding the gear, since changing traits etc. are so easy. One of the reasons I went for zerkers jewelry is that it would leave the door open for a roaming build in the future.

For the build that is listed in the first post, my core idea after being survivable through AH, was to have a major impact in a medium/large group. I therefore went 15 into radiance to pick up renewed justice. What this would mean, is that every enemy that i kill(staff is a great tagger), would give me the following:
AOE blind, 3stacks of might for 5 allies for 7.5sec, VoJ burning for 5 allies and also a decent heal(3×5×70hp) for me.

Do you think this would be better for this application or which changes would you suggest? For capping camps with a small party, this build would not be ideal at all, since the amount of kills happening would just be too low. When doing this I would then change to 0/0/30/30/10 and grab WoR. The most important question would be: Will my gear setup be good for both?

Brafius.7432:

to pick up renewed justice. What this would mean, is that every enemy that i kill(staff is a great tagger), would give me the following:
AOE blind, 3stacks of might for 5 allies for 7.5sec, VoJ burning for 5 allies and also a decent heal(3×5×70hp) for me.

Do you think this would be better for this application or which changes would you suggest? For capping camps with a small party, this build would not be ideal at all, since the amount of kills happening would just be too low. When doing this I would then change to 0/0/30/30/10 and grab WoR. The most important question would be: Will my gear setup be good for both?

I think renewed justice is rather nice and as long as you are winning it is very well worth it.

My take on pure of voice is that prevent us from loosing. The first 5 seconds of the battle is what makes us win or loose and PoV is much better support from that perspective. It keeps people alive.

At least that is how i see on things. PoV imo is extremely overpowered (remove 2 condis and convert one might be a bug) atm and should be in any, serious, support focused build.

And you can use both setups with the gear you have, its a nice setup you have going there.

Brafius.7432:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWSlUg67WFyLEf4ERWBRi9AjZsjXPcYCZIA-jEDBoLBiCEgiAhIAK7pIasltht6KalXBRZDTDjIq2cORG0DrWKgyFGB-w

I see that you still have SY up…..again, as mentioned/indicated, unless running small group stuff or roaming, get rid of it for contemplation of purity or whatever you deem. SY in a mid-to-large group WvW environment will simply get you near-instantly dropped IF one does not have a major cleanser used right after using SY, like contemplation of purity, purging flames, etc.

@Brutaly
You bring up the point that was my main concern with this build. It will only really shine when the enemy is dropping(any idea if renewed justice triggers on downed or kill?), which would mean that in most situations we will win regardless. A case could be made for it still being very powerful when the groups are evenly matched, but that same case could be made for PoV when your allies are hurting from those condis.
One thing I want to clarify about your post: Does a standard PoV cleanse two conditions per shout? Earlier when you were saying this, I assumed you were referring to the fact that I have two shouts. If this is the case, I need to put some serious thought into this!
One last question: I know you theorycraft quite a bit. Do you know if SoJ’s passive really equates to +-300 armor? I know it scales with the opponents Power and your Toughness, but the 300 number sounds very high and if it wasn’t that high, I would run with WoR or CoP instead.

@Rigel,
I know about the dangers of SY, but the 15s of Protection, Fury and Retal is just too strong for me to ignore. I have adapted my play style to accommodate it. I typically only use it pre-engagement, so I don’t get the condis. This allows me to hit with protection up which is huge for surviving that initial impact! If the fight happens to go past 48sec, I sometimes also use it for big plays. For example: I see my party members have a ton of condis and are low on health, while I’m still pretty high. I pop SY, all my virtues, empower(6k heal) and RF and hope that the passive condi removal hits soon. This is a risky play for sure, but if you pull it off you feel like gold! Sometimes this would mean my death, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take. I really wish that I could have CoP on my bar, since the SY+CoP play is just clutch! Also note that with the staff I am transferring one condi to the enemy every 10s. Unless I am wrong about the SoJ passive, I can’t give that up and SyG I can only give up if there is reliable stability amongst my party/group. SoJ passive + SiN if I am correct is 450 Armor, which is what allows me to spec more into damage and still be frontline.

Brafius.7432:

Does a standard PoV cleanse two conditions per shout?

Havent played with PoV since patchday two days ago but before that it cleansed two conditions and converted one with the use of a single shout in a 600 area. Crazy good tbh.

Do you know if SoJ’s passive really equates to +-300 armor? I know it scales with the opponents Power and your Toughness

You cant say its a straight 300 armor, it depends of how much armor you have to begin with since returns are diminishing.

But frankly i dont do much theorycrafting, i mostly read others and observe what happens in the game it self so take this with a grain of salt..

Damage done = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

After you calculated “Damage done” you remove 10% of Dd. If Dd is 1000 SoJ removes 100 of that damage. It works addivite with protection so if you also have protection running SoJ and Protection removes 430 of 1000.

At least hat is how i think it is. Someone with better skills in math might want to add to that.

That is crazy good regarding PoV! I might try both this build and a 0/5/30/30/5 version to see what works best for me. I might also run both, just at different times depending on the opposition. The most important thing is that I am pretty confident that I can make them both work with the same gear!

Regarding SoJ: I could run the match myself, but I am never sure what I good value range for skill-specific coefficient would be. Any ideas?

You might want to pick up Pure Voice rather than 15 in Radiance. But otherwise its a pretty standard build.

Thanks for all the help guys!
One more question: Renewed Focus vs Tome of Courage?