Guild Wars 2

I love Sword. I understand its a DPS loss vs Mace/GS. If someone asks in a dungeon, I don’t mind switching to the meta, and I understand how the build works. However, when I’m doing Silverwastes, dailies, etc I want my Sword back. And since I’m stubborn about my weapon of choice. How can I make it the best DPS Sword build possible? And how much DPS do I lose by being stubborn?

I use Sword/Torch and Scepter/Focus. My traits generally look like this(http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIBmAKkBdQ~). Zerker.

I play the guardian in a condition damage way, with Burning, and the sword is a very good wepon to proc virtue of justice, making it one of the best condition damage weapons of the guardian. With the AA that hit 5 times and the skill 3 that hit 8 times, that weapon is my favourite to deal condition damage.
Scepter also is very good for condition damage, but I prefer the sword.

In direct damage, the sword isn’t the best weapon but it’s good.

If you like the sword, play the sword. if they ask you to change your weapon, say them that you like to play your guardian witht the sword and that you don’t want to use the mace.
You lose damage? It’s ok, no problem, you obtain a blind with teleport and a skill to block projectiles.

Play what make you happy, don’t listen to the “meta”.

If you are running sword you miss about 5-10% of your dps compared to mace…

I am also running sword in some situations, because the projectile block is awesome in some solo dou or trio runs…

I’m also very sad that they removed the 10% benefit by using sword:(

Like Fines Juliverine said.Comparing GS + M/T with Zeal/Radiance/Virtue to GS + Sw/T with Zeal/Radiance/Virtue is around a 10% dps difference. Wich is just fine, even in dungeon. But you don’t use GS + Sw/T you use Sw/T and Sc/F.

Hard to estimate like that, but you probably lose another 10% compare to GS + M/T so in total you are near 20% less dps if you use Zeal/Radiance/Virtue.

Sword dps lost explained here http://imgur.com/a/ncGxx#0

Credits to Obal, Dekeyz and DNT

Any ideas on how to make this fellow’s sword the best DPS it can be?

Probably just the obvious stuff in Radiance for crits/burning and Vuln on Blind in Zeal. Sword has always just been a ‘filler’ weapon.

Obtena.7952:

Any ideas on how to make this fellow’s sword the best DPS it can be?

Probably just the obvious stuff in Radiance for crits/burning and Vuln on Blind in Zeal. Sword has always just been a ‘filler’ weapon.

I’ve always used sword over mace pre-update because it actually had comparable DPS, but much higher utility with Blind and Teleport. I’d hardly call that a filler weapon, as its always meant to be a personal DPS weapon, while the Mace was a group support/DPS weapon. Just like the Dichotomy of the GS vs Hammer.

But the Sword lost a major trait, while the Mace gained several. Hence why the Mace is just all around better now. At one point you could had argued that the Teleport function is lost with the mace….. but the mace’s symbol is strong enough to pick it over that utility, and replace it elsewhere (GS3, JI, HM3).

Obals testing come from perfect scenarios where you can just spam away your perfect rotations.

Sorry to break it to you homeboys, most of us aren’t going fullboat perfect rotations for 2 minutes straight. While you can blink in do an auto chain with your sword, roll out pop torch skills and so forth.

Lemme just put this symbol down here and… O the monster moved out of it.

Lemme just finish this big wind up swing 3…. o I just got knocked back and my symbols gone.

Take your dps calculations and throw in real life factors. Most of the time the lost dps isn’t from having the wrong weapon, it’s from being punched in the mouth at the wrong time.

All the white knights can come out of the wings now and attack me, but you know and I know that this game isn’t about perfect rotations.

^^ While I agree that the theorycrafting isn’t an accurate model of how the game works, that’s not it’s goal. It’s simply to allow people to make informed decisions on weapon choice using damage as the only decision factor. There are other factors people can use to choose a weapon as well and that’s when the things you mention can come into play.

For example, FT from a damage perspective is not the best DPS for engi … but if you want to farm moa’s for poultry meat, it’s a great weapon with Juggernaut. There is something to be said for ignoring the context where a weapon will be used and I think that’s where some of the theorycrafting falls short; I’m frequently questioning people using GS rotations …. to farm trash in Orr. This just shows not everyone is able to think beyond what someone else tells them and I think that’s where Obal’s work is important.

There isn’t really a way to make Sword a good damage weapon because it doesn’t have much of the ‘add on’ stuff that makes it a nice Guardian weapon in the first place. It never did; that’s why I say it’s a filler weapon. It doesn’t really contribute to the Guardian concept. I think that’s a missed opportunity but hey, what would a Paladin- archetype be with out a sword weapon?

I have so grown tired of the meta! People seem to forget one of the essential goals of creators of the game: creating your own play style. Play what you like, learn the best trait and equipment combos that work for you, get your timing down, and kitten the Zerk Jerks.
I use sword/focus main, and scepter/ torch or staff secondary. I like sword damage when combined with the vulnerability stacks from blind and burning. These can be enhanced with the use of the empowering might trait, which will also boost retalliation. Creatively be yourself and let the other sheep follow their trends off the cliff.

Thank you all for the input.

Maybe its confirmation bias, but I feel even more comfortable with my weapon choices. It’s not as bad as I suspected. I lose a good deal of burst every 20 seconds or so. A scepter rotation when entering combat, large hit boxes, and/or multiple foes out of cleave range, will help make up for that. Sword/Torch does good damage, its not best and I’m ok with that. I get range, mobility, and playstyle preference that justify the means. If anyone has any tips or suggestions, ill keep an eye on this thread.

Edit: +10% Damage modifier. They seem to have given it to symbols and they wont give it back. 10% is also about how much DPS I lose for using sword. Why Anet, why?!?

Medicarejunkie.6032:

Thank you all for the input.

Maybe its confirmation bias, but I feel even more comfortable with my weapon choices. It’s not as bad as I suspected. I lose a good deal of burst every 20 seconds or so. A scepter rotation when entering combat, large hit boxes, and/or multiple foes out of cleave range, will help make up for that. Sword/Torch does good damage, its not best and I’m ok with that. I get range, mobility, and playstyle preference that justify the means. If anyone has any tips or suggestions, ill keep an eye on this thread.

Edit: +10% Damage modifier. They seem to have given it to symbols and they wont give it back. 10% is also about how much DPS I lose for using sword. Why Anet, why?!?

Do you think it matters? Everything melts right now. Let’s say each person was supposed to represent 20% of overall damage, you losing 10% is 2% of the total damage…if boss fights lasted 1 hour you might see a small difference.

It doesn’t matter and never has … but as we know, there are people that will still push their agenda on max DPS only when teaming.

He asked what was his dps lost and we responded. What’s wrong with that. What we can’t even talk about DPS numbers because it can offend ppl that don’t like the meta?

Obtena.7952:

It doesn’t matter and never has … but as we know, there are people that will still push their agenda on max DPS only when teaming.

It does matter if everyone is in cleric’s gear but discussing the meta when everyone is zerk is pointless. In the past, not having zerkers could get your party wiped in easy dungeons like cof p1 but the game has been around for so long and the paths are so easy that everyone has zerk and knows what to do.

Thaddeus.4891:

He asked what was his dps lost and we responded. What’s wrong with that. What we can’t even talk about DPS numbers because it can offend ppl that don’t like the meta?

Nobody said anything was wrong, don’t get so offended. I’m pointing out that his perceived damage loss doesn’t really exist. Bosses don’t even last 30 seconds in pug runs, you can get downed and the boss will die before you do.

data.4093:

Nobody said anything was wrong, don’t get so offended. I’m pointing out that his perceived damage loss doesn’t really exist. Bosses don’t even last 30 seconds in pug runs, you can get downed and the boss will die before you do.

In half decent pugs yes. But the moment I don’t ask experienced, zerker or meta in the LFG you have a big chance to get a party with low dps.

Silv.9207:

Play what make you happy, don’t listen to the “meta”.

the 2nd time i read something like this in guardian forum today, god i’m so happy… xD

why because i too not using the meta, has always been sword/torch or focus and staff…while people keep forcing me to use GS or whatever…

idk but i like sword, and it fits my playstyle, i know what i’m doing and well aware of the dps lost…

now with radiant fire and amplified wrath i feel like i dont have to use torch because the blocks are pretty useful and it give burns on succesful blocks

btw i played mostly wvw, but still carrying the same thing on pve and dungeons,…sometimes i asked the party 1st if they dont mind me not using GS (it’s mostly just easy dungeons like AC) if they dont like it i simply leave the group…

and yea, play what makes you happy…

Obtena.7952:

It doesn’t matter and never has … but as we know, there are people that will still push their agenda on max DPS only when teaming.

Thing is it’s not just DPS, mace is also better support/utility in many situations. Outside of needing a little extra projectile defense or blinds mace wins with it’s healing and extra block.

I don’t think anyone felt it was wrong before when sword had the slight advantage, mace offering more support. It’s kinda silly now where it’s kinda mace all the time. But, I’m not complaining.

Me personally I hate gs. I only use sword focus. And scepter torch combo. I have never had any issues what’s so ever with dps,combined with great survival. Personally “meta” in my opinion is a bunch of bull. People will perform better always playing how they enjoy to play and know how to play.

Sylent.3165:

Me personally I hate gs. I only use sword focus. And scepter torch combo. I have never had any issues what’s so ever with dps,combined with great survival. Personally “meta” in my opinion is a bunch of bull. People will perform better always playing how they enjoy to play and know how to play.

That’s only true if they lack the ability to adapt and play the game as a whole. It’s simply a fact that your potential goes down as you veer off from the Meta, though there are some situations where the meta changes but isn’t listed as explicitly.

But, of course, this is a game and play however you want, just accept the tradeoffs you make and I think it’s helpful to know so you can adapt better. Personally I"m a fan of Hammer builds, I just like hammers, but I’ll swap to GS when I know I need that binding blades. I’ll put a focus on with my mace when I know the blocks will be helpful. Adapting is part of the game, and so is doing silly stuff just for laughs.

Adapting is part of the game, and so is doing silly stuff just for laughs.

Enough said. Other weapons are useful in certain applications. Play what you like and own it. Don’t let people decide for you.
I will agree though that there are certain things that work in certain situations.
Personally I"m a fan of Hammer builds,
Me too TBH. I like using hammer/staff in dungeons especially fractals. With AH and POV it’s good for support, and if the meta damage freaks don’t like it then they can run with someone else.

Again I just want to state : find the play style that works for you and own it.

No real reason for anyone to complain about a guard using hammer anymore. The damage is quite competitive with GS and with the light field up time from mace in the rotation anyways it’s kind of just “deal with it!” already. The only time I could see getting upset with a guard who brought hammer instead of GS is if your team is relying on their pulls for example Archdiviner final fight pulling in the Chanters, it’s enough of a help that it’s worth dropping hammer… or mace, but more likely hammer IMO.

data.4093:

Obtena.7952:

It doesn’t matter and never has … but as we know, there are people that will still push their agenda on max DPS only when teaming.

It does matter if everyone is in cleric’s gear but discussing the meta when everyone is zerk is pointless. In the past, not having zerkers could get your party wiped in easy dungeons like cof p1 but the game has been around for so long and the paths are so easy that everyone has zerk and knows what to do.

What matters is having people that know how to play, not what weapons or gear they have. The damage people actually do and what they think they do because they are running the meta is not the same. This is what I’m talking about. The few % damage the OP loses because he likes his sword is not relevant in a teaming situation, but some people will make it a thing because they don’t think about how the game works.

Besides being a better condi weapon than raw dps, it’s also a proccing monster, so if you have proc sigils in your build, this thing almost guarantees a proc on every cd. Just something to consider.

Raziel.8072:

Besides being a better condi weapon than raw dps, it’s also a proccing monster, so if you have proc sigils in your build, this thing almost guarantees a proc on every cd. Just something to consider.

It’s worse as a condi weapon also for pve. Mace/Torch + GS would be better for trash and Scepter/Torch + GS for bosses.

obal.3218:

Raziel.8072:

Besides being a better condi weapon than raw dps, it’s also a proccing monster, so if you have proc sigils in your build, this thing almost guarantees a proc on every cd. Just something to consider.

It’s worse as a condi weapon also for pve. Mace/Torch + GS would be better for trash and Scepter/Torch + GS for bosses.

False, for trash maybe because it lacks the aoe, but on bosses it would be better due to single target procs. But hey, meta says I’m wrong so I must be wrong right? All bow to the omniscient meta

Raziel.8072:

obal.3218:

Raziel.8072:

Besides being a better condi weapon than raw dps, it’s also a proccing monster, so if you have proc sigils in your build, this thing almost guarantees a proc on every cd. Just something to consider.

It’s worse as a condi weapon also for pve. Mace/Torch + GS would be better for trash and Scepter/Torch + GS for bosses.

False, for trash maybe because it lacks the aoe, but on bosses it would be better due to single target procs. But hey, meta says I’m wrong so I must be wrong right? All bow to the omniscient meta

Scepter for single target as I understand it for condi. All those smite hits add up quick.

And that’s the thing about sword, sure you get kittens in an AA rotation that’s pretty quick, but with Mace you’re getting symbol hits along side the auto hits which when traited adds even more burning through symbols! (and power damage).

You can play hipster if you want and rebel against the meta, no one is stopping you. But, it does you no good and it doesn’t prove any point.

Raziel.8072:

obal.3218:

Raziel.8072:

Besides being a better condi weapon than raw dps, it’s also a proccing monster, so if you have proc sigils in your build, this thing almost guarantees a proc on every cd. Just something to consider.

It’s worse as a condi weapon also for pve. Mace/Torch + GS would be better for trash and Scepter/Torch + GS for bosses.

False, for trash maybe because it lacks the aoe, but on bosses it would be better due to single target procs. But hey, meta says I’m wrong so I must be wrong right? All bow to the omniscient meta

I ran numbers for condi guard for many combos. I did sword, mace, hammer, gs, and scepter. The maths says it and it has nothing to with meta, zerkers, or my opinion.

https://youtu.be/JvZ9Jeb9UGI?t=52s

I think the statement was supposed to be sword for condi performs better than sword for direct damage, which might be true. I wasn’t looking for it at the time i was watching the video.

In any regards, sword still provides plenty of damage potential, and its not like you need absolute max dps to beat any content. I mean, I have all my characters specced for wvw since it’s sufficient to clear dungeons in those builds. If I needed to do a speedrun, I’d bring a speedrun build.

Jerus.4350:

That’s only true if they lack the ability to adapt and play the game as a whole. It’s simply a fact that your potential goes down as you veer off from the Meta, though there are some situations where the meta changes but isn’t listed as explicitly.

But, of course, this is a game and play however you want, just accept the tradeoffs you make and I think it’s helpful to know so you can adapt better. Personally I"m a fan of Hammer builds, I just like hammers, but I’ll swap to GS when I know I need that binding blades. I’ll put a focus on with my mace when I know the blocks will be helpful. Adapting is part of the game, and so is doing silly stuff just for laughs.

You are right and wrong. If we all did that half the classes would not be played at all. Max DPS, support, best rotations, and synergy would be the only way to play. The problem is the goal of a game is escapism and enjoyment. If peer pressure forced you to run the cookie cutter build despite the fact you hate it why would you play?

I have seen post for full zerker parties for years now. I rarely ever join despite in PvE I run full zerker all the time. Half the time (if I have the weapons I want) I will run a dps meta build.

I do not to be that guy but at this point PvE is so easy. “Just have a little fun.”, is what I keep thinking. I may be the only one but I really do not like the idea of players being miserable behind the keyboard (including the speed runners feeling the run is slow).

I think as far as your first point about veering off meta you are probably right. Most players do not create or test builds anymore they see what is top, copy it, and generally seem enjoy that. In many cases the builds have easy rotation that are mostly wash, rinse, repeat. In terms of personal potential as a gamer it is likely a thief or engineer if they choose to (this is more the exception than the rule) is going to be working harder to push the maximum potential out of a given build (despite it might not be quite as efficient as say a guard or warrior).

For the record I likely will not go mace for my guard as I do not feel like crafting another ascended weapon. I will try and just push out as much as I can out of my SW and GS build.

I’ve been plying Condi Engi, Necro and GS+LB ranger lately and main an Engi…:D