Guild Wars 2

Seriously. I’ve been playing engineer and I’ve been trying to make a good support build, but then I look at the crazy healing that this class can do and I wonder why I would even bother! I thought the whole point of this game was to NOT have a healer class. I thought the point was that ANY class can support, CC and damage just as well as any other. The difference was that each does it in their own way. Their own play style.

Am I missing something here? If this game is trying to kill the trinity, why is part of the trinity still here?

We can’t, to my knowledge, heal anyone to the degree that they’re unkillable or even substantially more durable, unless you count the elite tome of courage but that’s on a long CD with a short active time and its good healing spell takes forever and leaves you very vulnerable. If anything I find the healing to be lackluster compared to the low health pool guardians are saddled with. At the moment if we do spec into healing we end up wasting alot of stat points as it’s not as effective as taking vit or toughness.

Pretty much what FWB said. We have great self heals, but there really is not much of anything in this game that offers very good heals to others. Guardians have decent self heals to make up for our poor health pool but that is pretty much it as far as healing goes.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Seriously. I’ve been playing engineer and I’ve been trying to make a good support build, but then I look at the crazy healing that this class can do and I wonder why I would even bother! I thought the whole point of this game was to NOT have a healer class. I thought the point was that ANY class can support, CC and damage just as well as any other. The difference was that each does it in their own way. Their own play style.

Am I missing something here? If this game is trying to kill the trinity, why is part of the trinity still here?

You greatly overestimate Guardian healing. It may be better than Engineer healing, but it’s still far, far, far below that of a healer in other games, Monk included.

Healers in other games heal like Guardians would if they had their Elite skill on 100% of the time. Probably even better than that.

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

This class has been dedicated to a role, rather than a playstyle, which doesn’t sound like what this game was original said to be about. I see the same issue with the warrior (Kings of damage). Basically, it feels like this class is taking up a role that other classes could fill in their own play style.

I’m talking straight PvE and Dungeons here btw. No PvP or WvW.

Yaki.9563:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Seriously. I’ve been playing engineer and I’ve been trying to make a good support build, but then I look at the crazy healing that this class can do and I wonder why I would even bother! I thought the whole point of this game was to NOT have a healer class. I thought the point was that ANY class can support, CC and damage just as well as any other. The difference was that each does it in their own way. Their own play style.

Am I missing something here? If this game is trying to kill the trinity, why is part of the trinity still here?

You greatly overestimate Guardian healing. It may be better than Engineer healing, but it’s still far, far, far below that of a healer in other games, Monk included.

Healers in other games heal like Guardians would if they had their Elite skill on 100% of the time. Probably even better than that.

Yes, the heal is way lower than a trinity healer can do.

But our protection, aegis, blind make up for it on purpose.

Try cast protection and regen on allies, then give them an aegis, thats is what a GUARDian is good at. Or try traited yourself giving blind when burning your foes, thats a lot of free “blocks” to your allies as well. Heal is the last way you want to protect your allies as a guardian.

Attempting to heal as in other games is impossible. We can’t target a specific ally to heal them. As stated above our “healing skills” are on long cooldowns and have significate draw backs. When we use a tome guardians lose all the utilities , our weapons, and our self heal. You would be better off focusing on boon application or condition removal. Its more reliable and more useful in the long run.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

It depends, if you actually want to play a healer type then i would go for Ele, they can pretty much solve that job without loosing out on dps.

A support warrior or support ranger can also do some amazing stuff and in some scenarios they are infact superior. I have a build for my ranger that i use when sieging that are nothing short of amazing.

How about a 3 shout warrior, thats 6k health with no casting time and it can still deal heavy dps.

But as a general rule i agree guardians are great supporters but i wouldnt play one as a healer, at least not in wvw. That is a waste of space.

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

Regarding skills you need to look a bit deeper, there are self centric skills as well.

And yes as a defensive supporter we are rather good. As offensive supporter both rangers and warriors have better buffs and tools then us.

Also else has better defensive options since they can maintain protection and also lots of might with less investment. If you want to do that on a guardian you need to invest heaviliy.

I think you miss my point, guardians are great, AT ONE SORT OF SUPPORT, other professions are better in other areas. Ofc perma fury is great support as well and that we cant do.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

Support is a lot of things. Yes, many different classes offer support options, but they’re all different. Guardian isn’t the best at “support” unless you mean a very specific kind of support, in which case… yes, we’re pretty great. I’m also routinely told elementalists offer some fantastic defensive support, but I don’t play the class so I can’t really say.

I don’t see what’s so foul about the idea that guardians, the class billed as the most overtly defensive-minded, should happen to excel at defensive utility. It’s exactly what it says on the tin.

OP you should try water elementalist.
Also it shows how low knowledge you have of the game claiming that the only viable classes are guardian for support and warrior for anything else.
Warrior can be a great supporter as well, just saying, beside being a superb damage dealer. Thieves plague the battlefield with their stealthiness and damage bursts, engineers are annoying as hell with their bombs and turrets and flamethrowers.

The game is very well balanced and it avoids the “holy trinity” very well. The guardian is not a healer. If you think a single guardian can support your whole group while you are facerolling a boss, you’re going to have a bad time. Same goes for healing elementalist. Most guardis go for AH build, which is kind of egoistic. Sure we heal ourself like crazy, which given our health pool is OK.

Yes you can play a healer or a boon controller, but the real purpose of a guardian IMO is the frontline pushing the zerg back and this way protecting the groups behind. It is how I roll anyway. Get in, struck confussion (not the skill, the real feeling) within the enemy, get the hell out while most of them have targetted you. Or if the zerg is of ranged toons, just pull them closer to your zerg with the greatsword. If your zerg is good, the pulled enemies will most likely die.

Brutaly.6257:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

It depends, if you actually want to play a healer type then i would go for Ele, they can pretty much solve that job without loosing out on dps.

A support warrior or support ranger can also do some amazing stuff and in some scenarios they are infact superior. I have a build for my ranger that i use when sieging that are nothing short of amazing.

How about a 3 shout warrior, thats 6k health with no casting time and it can still deal heavy dps.

But as a general rule i agree guardians are great supporters but i wouldnt play one as a healer, at least not in wvw. That is a waste of space.

Assuming that a warrior has 1300 healing you will only do a maximum of 316.2 healing per second. With a Guardian’s selfless daring alone you can do 285 healing per second. I’d say with all their available tools(Not including Battle Presence because it’s broken as all hell) that a Guardian can pull at least 600-700 healing per second on other targets.
Optimally(Numerically) speaking you could pull off 1080 healing per second without battle presence, and 1192 healing per second with battle presence functioning properly.

Remember that healing isn’t the only thing Guardians bring to a group, and it is ultimately up to you whether you are willing to trade in your Precision and a bit of Toughness for Some of the best healing in the game

Also I’m not counting Healing Breeze, for obvious reasons, kitten healing breeze!(Seriously I can use every other healing skill 100x more efficiently than Healing Breeze to heal team mates.) I also did not factor in weapon sigils, though I did factor in Rune of Water 6 piece. Also forgot Shelter and Merciful Intervention, anything related to weapon sets that are not Staff/Hammer.

However I am curious about this ranger “Support” build, as I have been hearing about these Juggernaut rangers running around, and I’ve yet to actually see one in action.

Judge Banks.9018:

Brutaly.6257:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

It depends, if you actually want to play a healer type then i would go for Ele, they can pretty much solve that job without loosing out on dps.

A support warrior or support ranger can also do some amazing stuff and in some scenarios they are infact superior. I have a build for my ranger that i use when sieging that are nothing short of amazing.

How about a 3 shout warrior, thats 6k health with no casting time and it can still deal heavy dps.

But as a general rule i agree guardians are great supporters but i wouldnt play one as a healer, at least not in wvw. That is a waste of space.

Stuff

The point wasnt if a warrior could be a healer, they can, 6k burst with almost 0 in healing power, Stacking healing power on a warrior is probably even more useless then doing it on a guardian.

The thing is what the shouts do, they are one of the best offensive supportskills in the game with really short cd or superstrong and while doing great dps and cc they can also burst heal for over 6k. And just as damage, burst is king in pvp.

The thread was about guardians being superior in support, and they are, defensive support, other classes is much better when it comes to attacking.

Brutaly.6257:

The point wasnt if a warrior could be a healer, they can, 6k burst with almost 0 in healing power, Stacking healing power on a warrior is probably even more useless then doing it on a guardian.

nobody can burst 6K with zero healing.
not even a warrior

warrior with ~500 Healing Power heal only 1400 each shout…

meditation heals do 5400 using all 3, pretty close to 6k

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

So far the only proof that you have given to argue that guardians are the best healers and support class in the game is telling us that save yourselves gives every single boon available to guess what the guardian. Id be in the camp of people that thinks “You dont know what you are talking about”.

Since when did Save yourselves become a support skill? =.=

And i find it ironic that this is coming from an Engineer out of all classes.

IDK in my view Engineers best healer imo

You just have

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Bandages
I dont have lvl 80 engineering but according to my understanding of the description:
3 X 1k heals in on 12 second cooldown
scales 50% with healing power for christs sake which would easily bump it to
3 X >1.5k heals in 12 seconds (idk how much healing power you can get at 80 but 1000 extra healing power should be no problem. In fact it should be more than 1.5k =.=)
it can be thrown too OMG which gives it a degree of targeting
So you can heal someone 4-5k on a 12 second cooldown.(not including toolbelt self heals) Its pretty good since most other class’s 6 skill only does that amount of healing evey 30 second or so.

And then you have elixer gun heals
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Super_Elixir
on 20 sec cooldown
and elixer gun toolbelt skill on 40 sec cooldown for aoe heals

Not to mention you can spam 300+ aoe heals every second with no cooldown at all
with a bomb trait according to this thread
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46740-elixir-infused-bombs/

Last but not least you have probably the bestest rez ability in the game
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
Instant cast
1200 range
Lowest cooldown (2mins) rez out of all professions

Guardian best healer?? What are you talking about man?

All we get is staff heals on long cooldowns. Symbol heals which doesnt even tick for that much. A dodge heal for 2k. Virtue 3k heal on 60 scond cooldown. And tome of courage!!!! Wait thats actually pretty good heals too……..

But elementalists heal just as good. And engineers are still the best healers when specced for it

Oh yeah and how could i have forgotten……….

Engineers can take the trait which lets them bomb spam heal for 30 pts
which leaves them to go 30 pts more in you know that bomb tree
and 10 more points left for watever else you prefer

Healer guardians do next to no damage
Healer engineers could could heal like a pro and still dps like a pro

Get all healing power equipment and get 1000 hp. Get hp stack sigil and 250 more. Food for 50. Remember your traits to get you the bomb heal? well that line gives you extra 300hp. Add Dwayna runes for about 200 more hp and also its superior synergy with medi-kit.(5sec group regen everytime u use heal skill on 10 sec cooldown. What can i say? its just tailor-made for the engineer medi-kit)

wait…..scratch that use medi-kit with these runes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Altruism
wow groupwide 100% 3 stack might uptime and 50% fury uptime……OP

1800hp translates to roughly 2k bandage drops and 300+ bomb spam heals.
All the while doing spectacular aoe bomb damage.

Id say it again. Engineer best healer.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

You’re right, we aren’t in other games. This game doesn’t require a support role. You can try and mash Guardian into it and not be completely ineffective but it’s still not better than using your Guardian to DPS. You are making the assumption that having a “healer” is necessary or even desirable, which it’s not.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style.

Not really-from what I see, many people don’t like to play Guardians as Healing/Support, but more as offensive machines that by chance happen to heal/support a little bit. I play a support/healing/offensive hybrid for the most part, but many players like a more offensive minded approach, which also works (perhaps not as good as Warrior, but then Warrior has its own disadvantages as well.)

All classes are more about playstyles than fulfilling a specific role, and no Profession is “needed” for completion of anything-that’s one of this game’s strengths (and a possible “weakness” for those who still can’t relate to the concept or get used to it.)

Also, I wonder why would anyone play a character that is supposedly “best” at support if he/she finds playing support as an Engineer (for instance) more fun or fitting for his/her playstyle? Why not play what works for you rather than what’s supposedly best, and isn’t the best what’s more fun to you anyway? Play whatever you like, and whichever “role” you wish, not what’s supposed to be a “meta-best” (though of course, what you like may happen to be what is supposedly “the best” as well.)

I honestly don’t feel Guardian is “the best” supporter and/or healer. I just love the playstyle and lore surrounding it-it feels right.

Lastly, there’s no way that the Guardian, and not even the elementalist is “Monk-like” in this game. The developers wouldn’t allow it, and it’s the main reason why some people do not invest in Healing Power at all in the first place, at least in what concerns the Guardian (though I do, because it’s fun for me-not because it makes me a “Healer” or “Monk-like”.)

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

You do realize that there are builds (like my own) that run almost completely boonless, and have absolutely zero group support that are still very effective right? Are guardians good at defensive support? Yes they are. But so are others. And others are better at offensive support. However in no way does this make the class required role as “support” when pretty much every class can make a cc build or a dps build or some sort of support build i dont really see any as having a role. Are some going to be better at specific things due to class mechanics? Yes, because otherwise we would have 10 carbon copy classes with the same skills. But each class does so in its own way.

The most hilarious part about this thread is that elementalist probably can do more support in more different ways than both professions combined.

That, and he thinks guardians are better support than mesmers!

@lcc: Looks like you’ve never played an Engineer.
After Super Elixier got nerfed again, the heals from a Guardian are far superior.

Everything you posted scales horribly with +heal when compared to Guardian abilities. I can easily outheal anything my Engineer can do just by dodging around with my Guardian.

Xaraxus.2960:

@lcc: Looks like you’ve never played an Engineer.
After Super Elixier got nerfed again, the heals from a Guardian are far superior.

Everything you posted scales horribly with +heal when compared to Guardian abilities. I can easily outheal anything my Engineer can do just by dodging around with my Guardian.

ermm, it’s my understanding that +heal doesn’t scale with Guardians either….

the dodge heal scales 1:1 with +heal

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Xaraxus.2960:

@lcc: Looks like you’ve never played an Engineer.
After Super Elixier got nerfed again, the heals from a Guardian are far superior.

Everything you posted scales horribly with +heal when compared to Guardian abilities. I can easily outheal anything my Engineer can do just by dodging around with my Guardian.

ermm, it’s my understanding that +heal doesn’t scale with Guardians either….

Except for Selfless Daring.

I still wouldn’t call the addition healing power a good scaling though. It’s still not a great thing to max out on Guardians, save maybe for the Healway build.

Super Elixir (Engineer)17.7k healing over 10 seconds. Removes one condition on impact.

Empower (Guardian) 1.5k healing over 4 seconds. Also causes 12 stacks of might.

Same recharge.

Sactuary (Guardian) 2.6k healing over 6 seconds. Enemies literally cannot enter, nor can their projectiles. Cannot be destroyed.

X Turrets (Engineer) These get smashed super easily and even Healing turret doesn’t heal for very much: 4k for you (Average) 1k for everyone else over 8 seconds.

Protective Spirit (Guardian) 1.2k range. Grants 33% less damage and 1.3k regeneration of 10 seconds. 15 second recharge. That’s about 5 seconds of downtime.

Regenerating Mist (Engineer) 780 health. 480 range. 60 second recharge.

That’s just comparing our healing. Let’s check out protection.

Toss Elixir U Randomly gives you either a wall reflection skill (guardian), a wall reflection skill (Thief) or veil from mesmer (Not a reflection skill).

Wall of Reflection Literally the one of the skills from Toss Elixir U, only a better recharge and always casts this wall.

I’d talk more about other professions, but I don’t know them as well. You can blame Eles and say “They do it worse than us” but that still doesn’t fix the fact that Guardians are the ultimate in support in terms of keeping people alive. So much so that other classes should not even bother with this type of support.

This class plays so much like a tank it’s shocking. I mean christ, one skill is basically an agro ability (Binding Blade). It pulls the mobs together so the DPS can kill it. Sounds kind of like a holy trinity to me.

Also, just because this can also be damage doesn’t really refute anything I’m saying. It just means this class is good at not only support. That’s a good thing. Every class should be able to fill every role effectively. It’s just this class does it so shockingly better.

I would like to note that sanctuary has a HUGE recharge and also enemies can still hit in the bubble with melee skills if standing next to it. Also i think stability makes it useless, but could be wrong because i rarely ever use it.

Also binding blade is more of an anti running skill than anything, it does not change agro, it doesnt force the mob to attack anyone. And most people/mobs scatter directly after.

Also as far as elixer u, all those skills you get are different combo fields, I would love the smoke field from the thief skill to throw some blast finishers in.

I’m sorry if you think that guardians are some op support class but honestly any class can be amazing with the right builds. I have been blown up by some high damage engineers before and have also had a HELL of a time even coming close to killing others. The same goes for just about any other class.

You can’t make such statements without actually playing the profession, OP.

Many things in the game sound overpowered or perfect on paper while reality is really different.

Empower is on the worst damage weapon Guardians get.

Sanctuary as already stated has a long cooldown, is too small to keep monsters from hitting people inside of it, and heals for less than the tooltip displays. Much less. It heals for 266 per tic, times six, for 1596 total over 6 seconds. It’s about 100 more healing than Regeneration.

Protective Spirit is on an elite with a 3 minute cooldown. It gives 10 seconds of regeneration, which is ultimately not much when you consider that you can only cast Protective Spirit twice during the elite’s duration.

Wall of Reflection is indeed good.

Look, I realize you want to be right, but there’s a lot of Guardians in this thread who are telling it like it is: Guardians are not the be-all and end-all class for anything in this game, be it condition clearing, boons, burst or sustained dps, tanking, or healing. I’ve spent 800 hours on mine and I know that for a fact.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Seriously. I’ve been playing engineer…

foofad.5162:

Look, I realize you want to be right, but there’s a lot of Guardians in this thread

OP, you are just looking at a slate of skills and ignoring how any combination of them can be effectively played. Being a healer is not possible as a Guardian. Some good defensive utility can be used. This does not a healer make. Some control skills can be used. It is just silly to compare their effectiveness to the aggro control of a tank in an MMO with the trinity in tact. The Guardian is one of the best defensive supporters. Others excel in different forms of support.

The Engineer is hardly in a great place right now, so your comparisons between the two classes are likely misplaced. Unless you actually expected all classes to be equally capable at all things, with only slight rearrangements of button icons, skill names, and class aesthetics, I’m not sure what you are really upset about, because it doesn’t seem to square with the experiences of all of the people who posted above me (and myself) who have actually played this class.

well sorry if im wrong about the engineer. I only have a lvl 10 one but i still think they can support ok

i tested medikit in WvW without any healing power. 1k heal per pack on 12 second cooldown. Shouldnt heal little when you do have healing power heal.

And that bomb spam heal trait still gives most likely what 2-300 heals per second?

also offensive support with runes of altruism?

the best heals guards got are selfless daring for like 2k every 5 seconds or so
4-5k heals in 10 seconds arent really that much. Empower on staff is good but its 16 second cooldown even when traited. prob heals for 3-4k
Sanctuary cooldown is too long to even worth considering in a healing contest. Same thing with elites.

So in 10 seconds we heal for about 10k when you add in prob symbols and stuff

not much difference from warrior
with 2k shouts and healing banner heal
or eles with all their trait heals
or engineers with medikit and elixer gun heals

And even if the guardian heals more than engineers
The healer engineer would still dish out much more dps than the guardian
Has access to probably every condition in game via bomb kit and elixer gun
while stilll having an utility slot for an easy rez
and has built in “for great justice” on group via runes of altrusim

I fail to see how guardians are superior support to engineers
Not mentioning eles too

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I still wouldn’t call the addition healing power a good scaling though. It’s still not a great thing to max out on Guardians, save maybe for the Healway build.

There’s nothing special about the Healway build that makes it any different for healing power than any other build that maximizes it.

lcc.9374:

well sorry if im wrong about the engineer. I only have a lvl 10 one but i still think they can support ok

i tested medikit in WvW without any healing power. 1k heal per pack on 12 second cooldown. Shouldnt heal little when you do have healing power heal.

And that bomb spam heal trait still gives most likely what 2-300 heals per second?

also offensive support with runes of altruism?

the best heals guards got are selfless daring for like 2k every 5 seconds or so
4-5k heals in 10 seconds arent really that much. Empower on staff is good but its 16 second cooldown even when traited. prob heals for 3-4k
Sanctuary cooldown is too long to even worth considering in a healing contest. Same thing with elites.

So in 10 seconds we heal for about 10k when you add in prob symbols and stuff

not much difference from warrior
with 2k shouts and healing banner heal
or eles with all their trait heals
or engineers with medikit and elixer gun heals

And even if the guardian heals more than engineers
The healer engineer would still dish out much more dps than the guardian
Has access to probably every condition in game via bomb kit and elixer gun
while stilll having an utility slot for an easy rez
and has built in “for great justice” on group via runes of altrusim

I fail to see how guardians are superior support to engineers
Not mentioning eles too

What? Feel free to do some math, take an easy 1300 Healing power, plug it into the coefficients listed, compensate for cast time and cooldowns, find Healing Per Second.

a monk as in gw1 monk? have you even played the game more like how is this not a paragon. and engineer have more damage support like flamethrower turrets etc.

too much math cough…too much work

and these are estimates like their exact cos they most likely arent
while its true that warrior heals less hps when taking into cooldowns and stuff
considering 20 sec cooldown on shouts
according to wiki 1500 hp power
Vigorous shouts 2392×2 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Shouts
Banner heal 3840+650 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compassionate_Banner
thats 4800 + 4500 burst heal right there
hey thats around 10k heal right in 10 second time span

…….wait it should be
In time span of 20 seconds
Warrior:
Timer start:
2x shouts 4800, banner heal 4500 = 9300
10seconds in
banner heal again 9300+4500 = 13800
20seconds in 2x shouts , banner heal 13800 + 9300 = 23100heals around 20 something seconds
banner heal 1 sec cast and shouts instant…so it should be around 23100 heals in about 22 secs

Compare with guardian
Timer start:
Empower 3-4k heal 3 sec cast 16 second cooldown = 3-4k heal
2dodge rolls 2 × 2k heals = 4000 + 4000 = 8000
staff 2 heal = round 10000 total
so empower 3 sec cast, 2 dodges about 2 sec cast, and staff 2 around 1 sec cast
6 seconds in
cooldown waiting time >>>>>
about 16 seconds in repeat all the above to get around 20k heals over 20ish seconds
You’d most likely heal more with guardians though when you fit in symbols and mace autoattack heals. Maybe hold the line too. But then those dont heal for really that much
maybe you can add 3-4k for guardians

Id say warrior heals give guardian heals a good run for their money though guardians should be healing more

meanwhile engineers heals for around 300hp bomb heals each second just by spamming bomb 1
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Elixir-Infused_Bombs
20 × 300 = 6000
medikit with 1.5k healing power = 1750 × 9 in about 25-26 seconds = 16000
elixer gun stuff = add 2k
so around 24000 heals in around 25-6 seconds

Dont want to do the math for eles but healwise but i believe they heal the most out of these 4 classes

Elementalist > guards > warriors > engineers
with prob 1-2k heal difference in 20 second time span

But heals alone arent all of the equation in a PVE dunguen environment

theres DPS in which
Engineer (bomb aoe spam) > warrior (longbow, rifle etc) > eles >>>>> guardians

and condition application where
Engineer > ele >>>>> warrior = guardian

Offensive support
Engineer = warrior => guardian >> ele
(tossup between whether you like fury or might)

Rez ability
only engineer has that one

The engineer does lag behind the other heal specs in terms of raw healing
But bosses in this game takes the extra healing you get on your ele, or guard in
half a hit

Maybe a matter of preference
But id take engineer superior dps, condition application, rez ability(which is huge in dunguens) over a healer guardian which heals for like 5-6k more but hits for next to nothing with staff and mace. And also with barely any condition or CC.

And then theres this thread made by engineers about engineer defense support PVE
which kinda echoes my theories about the class

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Defensive-Engineer-for-PvE-and-Dungeons/first

Skim read this.

TBH I see my class more as the Paragon from GW1, minimalism of incoming damage before it happens. This involves Boons which we are the master of. Protection 33% damage reduction maintenance on the party is a big one, along with regen, aegis, retaliation and might for higher dps. Our ability to outright heal people is extremely limited. Virtue of resolve may help if you pop it to catch someone at 5% health, but after you’ve run through that, you’ll be hard pressed to do kitten unless you have tome of courage up, and hope like hell people stay alive long enough for the huge cast time. Once you have run through this also, you are kitten out of luck.

If you are talking outright heals, I believe the ele is more powerful in that respect, but we are guardians, the masters of mitigation.

I don’t agree about the one saying going the AH route is egoistic The goal of the guardian to me is to keep the mob on us and giving boons to others. The AH build does this very well. You’re in front line, keeping the mob on you. While the mob is on you, it does not smash others. So this means you protect others. You give boons to others, so this is not egoist. And doing so you heal yourself, so you survive, to better keep the mob on you. A dead guardian is useless to a party ^^

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or maybe don’t play support roles because the class doesn’t have to play like that.

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or full with people that realize that you can actually support just as well in Berserker with a GS and you arent forced to gimp the dps just because you support your team.

Brutaly.6257:

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or full with people that realize that you can actually support just as well in Berserker with a GS and you arent forced to gimp the dps just because you support your team.

Other than the fact that both the staff and mace/shield are better support weapons and healing power would give you a slight bonus to support I agree. A properly traited guardian can still be a strong support player with berserkers’s and GS. However most berserker wearers trait very little into support because they just want to see big numbers.

Brutaly.6257:

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or full with people that realize that you can actually support just as well in Berserker with a GS and you arent forced to gimp the dps just because you support your team.

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

alcopaul.2156:

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

Yes, zerker warriors being the only crucial words here.

Razor.9132:

alcopaul.2156:

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

Yes, zerker warriors being the only crucial words here.

How about 4 zerker warriors and a support guardian? Over 9000 dps?

coz giving +15 stacks of might to 4 zerker warriors will surely produce higher damage output than you specced on Berserk depending on your GS adding damage.

Theoretically.

And staff cant be used as second with GS? People need to be more open minded, there is no contradiction between support and doing some serious damage.

Mace offers heals, probably the worst kind of support in this game.

:P i gave my guard the name of my monk in gw1 and made him bald mwhahaha look kitten, the t2 racial sylvari doesnt look like plate, more like wrapping just like a gw1 armor and i run a staff build.

and quotting the wiki Trivia section of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian

It borrows themes from a couple of the Guild Wars professions. Many of their skills share names with those used by the monk profession in Guild Wars, such as the Protection Prayers and Smiting Prayers skills. The paragon was a heavily armored profession which also focused on party-wide buffs.

alcopaul.2156:

Brutaly.6257:

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or full with people that realize that you can actually support just as well in Berserker with a GS and you arent forced to gimp the dps just because you support your team.

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

Empowering Might trait + Binding Blade and GS Aoe= constant 10 + might stacks for my party and I actually do damage, I’d say that gives that silly leaf blower staff a run for your money.

alcopaul.2156:

Razor.9132:

alcopaul.2156:

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

Yes, zerker warriors being the only crucial words here.

How about 4 zerker warriors and a support guardian? Over 9000 dps?

coz giving +15 stacks of might to 4 zerker warriors will surely produce higher damage output than you specced on Berserk depending on your GS adding damage.

Theoretically.

It’s still zerker warriors doing imba damage, no matter if you give them the stacks or not. Let’s take 4 balanced mesmers for example – I think a guardian with GS + those 4 mesmers would do a lot more overall damage than 4 mesmers with 15 stacks of might and a guardian without damage.

Also what swiftpaw said.

Staff is just not worth taking it’s current state most of the time.