Guild Wars 2

I personally think guardian is somewhat a mystery to the devs because they really don’t seem to know what to do with it.
So that’s why I am putting this up to hopefully get the devs to see what the community wants from the guardian

What is the class fantasy: What is it to you guys.

For me its given its name it should be the team survival focused tank and with its numerous healing abilities maybe a healer/healer semitank hybrid.

The general fantasy i get from guardian given what its expose to be is being able to well guard people whether through healing or just blocking and the damage part is more of a side thing then the main point of the class to me.

What is NOT the class fantasy: What do you guys NOT want to see from the class.

What I personally don’t want to see is guardian having long range. Everything about guardian is short range and well giving the guardian a long range weapon in form of the long bow just doesn’t seem like it belongs.

As a general idea the Dragon hunter in its whole just seems at its core misguided because it giving tools guardian doesn’t want or needs.

What abilities do you want to see kept/expanded upon:

I’d personally would like to see aegis expanded upon because its pretty much the identity of the class and is pretty much exclusive to the class(Mesmer can get aegis from inspiration’s passive).

I’d also would want to see guardian’s emergency ability to save people expanded upon also because merciful intervention is a GREAT idea its just poorly executed. It embodies the theme of a guardian and pretty much could be the basis for the entire class in my opinion being a team survival focused tank. Think about it if merciful intervention was moved to an ult that healed AND made who ever hit invulnerable along with given nearby allies aegis.

Also despite how much I dislike dragon hunter I’d wish to see its ult kept in but reworked into a less gimmicky trap version because i see it having a lot of potential in all regards of the guardian. Also from dragon hunter I’d like to see its trap that explodes into aegis picks up reworked into an active ability because its a great idea held down by the fact its a trap.

What do you want to be reworked/scrapped:

For me its the Dps focus of the class(its name is Guardian not Assassin) and dragon hunter. I think both the dps and dragon hunter need to be reworked/scrapped down to a point were they aren’t the main focus of the class while still being viable. Dragon hunter I have said my part on already.

Extra: What ever you’d want to add.

Well, imo guard only need a few small adjustments:
- more team support.
- sanctuary change/
- better effective healing power or more health w/o using the trait
- trait SW need to be vanilla for the weapons.

A few QoL weapons adjustments and unrroot sword 3 skill, mace simbol, 3rd AA
cleave and heal from number of targets if possible.

Few adjustments like those over time,

Unlike Rangers where devs were literally stumped on how to fix the class, Guardians are pretty black and white tbh. There’s just sooo many ways to go about him.

Like the above post said, some small adjustments must be had.
The biggest thing that kills meta DH are instant interuptable Virtues, impeding our survivability.

Bunk Guardians not being very supportive at the level of Druids or Tempests & lacking supportive tools to stay a float.

Burn guardians dying too easily because they lack the tools power DH has.

We need another specialization fix just how Core got theirs way back when. Combine traits, making some baseline, etc.

I want the GW2 Guardian to play similarly to the many ways you can play a Dungeons and Dragons Cleric. Incidentally, the DnD Cleric happens to already be an inspiration for the Guardian, as said by devs themselves. You can play a DnD cleric as Melee damage, supporty with heals and/or cc, Ranged damage with a Bow (or with spears/javelins wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more), Ranged damage with Spells, and more. Guardian has aspects of those, but they could stand to be fleshed out a bit more. Many skills don’t work consistently (in comparison to how other, equivalent skills work; like Mace aa3, Mace 3, Sword aa3, and others). So first, I’d have to go through and make sure its the most fluid it can be with what we have currently. Then, I could work on filling in the gaps of skill performance, like Consecrations, Spirit Weapons, and others, where their performance just doesn’t lend themselves to be wanted in nigh any situation. The concepts are fine, its just the implementation that needs a little time investment.

I would work around some main concepts

• Power Builds: Traps should become symbols. Easy buff that would make Longbow useful again. True Shot’s damage must be buffed and cripple enemies it hits.
• Condition Damage Builds: Radiance line is good imo, but Virtues line needs to be reworked so Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath synergize and don’t exclude each other (alongside Big Game Hunter); these traits should get buffed because you’re giving up 2 main defensive traits to take them and Guardian depends on 1 single condition that can be easily cleansed.
• Bunker Builds: To be competitive against Druid and Tempest, Battle Presence should grant protection to nearby allies. Indomitable Courage should grant Aegis to nearby allies each time you successfully block an attack. Sanctuary must be reworked so it has a reduced cooldown and cast Regeneration upon usage. A trait (Major Master) could cast blind when blocking. Hunter’s Fortification could cast Shield of Absorption once you get to 15% of your Health Pool.
• Spirit Weapon Builds: Make Spirit Weapons usable like Elementalist’s conjured weapons, they would become like a 3rd weapon set (Exotic Stats) and get destroyed on swap.

-Change consecrations to be AoE utilities with lower CDs and stronger effects that spread boons to everyone in them…

-Give base guardian an optional trait for 25% runspeed

-Make it so base guardian f2 removes one condition every 10 second naturally

-Make it so base guardian can stack aegis two times

-Make it so hammer is faster or its skills have wider ranges

-Make scepter have no travel time, but instead work like mesmer gs 1

-Make it so spirit weapons are equippable weapons that give us new 1-5 skills

i just wish for the godddaaaammnn 25% speed so i dnt have to use traveler runes t_t
should also rework mace,sword hammer and sceptre they are all so kitten stupid"!
since this class is mix of monk and paragon they really should make it more support and solo type. there is actually only 1 “working” solo build and nothing else… as for support.. meh. its guardian not useless poooop. pls arena net dnt just make so many classes and throw out those which arent maybe your favourites.. ive played guardian since the launch and kitten well i wont quit playing it even if they make it a rag.

I’d like to see Guardian as an actually effective group support class. I feel like this role is better done by Revenants, Druids, and Tempests…

I also think it should have a “medium” size health pool, as a side note.

I deleted my level 80 Guardian to free up a character slot. I like the class fantasy, but the current implementation sucks and I feel like I’m gimping myself by playing it.

- Boost health by about 3k so we can diversify our builds to do some damage without being one-hit.

- Add a trait for a speed boost so I can get rid of traveler runes

- More condi options besides burning for build diversity

- Let me move while shooting LB

- Nerf Revenants, delete mesmers from the game

Never think about changing base HP! We do not need it, and it does not fit the gameplay of this class.

But i have 10 other points that should be improved.

1. make it so that passiv F1-F3 effects aren´t disabled after them. And make them stronger, DH simply outclasses basic guardian in all ways, even if u don´t want to use the bow and traps.

2. Rework staff to a usefull weapon for combat outside of farming, probably support/condi hybrid midrange weapon.

3. Rework Torch 5 (very important), probably to a conditiondmg based ability. Its the worst weapon skill ingame, the only one which is NEVER useful. Change torch 4 buff to not be removed when u throw the torch.

4. Add some dmg to sword 3 (to make it a usefull dps ability, aa spamming weapons are boring).

5. Rework Scepter into anything more useful, probably to a conditiondmg based MH(cause we need it for condibuilds).

6. Switch some dmg from Hammer aa3 to hammer 2 (same reason as point 4)

7. Rework/buff some of the weaker trait/lines (radiance should be a viable condition based traitline for example)

8. Shouts seem to be a bit to weak for their very high cds. Besides wvw condicleansebuilds via runes they aren´t useful. (Utiliys should not need a specific rune to make them viable!)

9. Alot of guardians utilitys have extremly long cds, that makes the class feel more passive then it should be.

10. Rework Spirit Weapons, they where one of the main reasony why i decided to play guardian at launch. But i could never use them in a viable (useful) build.

They need to start by buffing our Virtues

As it stands other classes mechanics have a REAL impact on how they play. As it is right now virtues are basically an extra block, a heal that’s barely noticeable, and abit of burn for your allies that’s based off of THEIR condi damage (which is zilch if they aren’t condi built)

And Im sorry but I play a burn Guardian and there’s no chance in hell im touching my F1 unless I’m in the middle of Renewed Focus

Furthermore having our virtues apply to our downed state would be nice.

More than that we need the base power of virtues buffed along with the activates. DH did this quite well and I think it may be a pain to rebalance but hitting a virtue should be a tactical decision. Right now it really isn’t, the passives just don’t matter unless you’re a burn guardian or Battle Presence guardian(Which current trait choices gave the shaft) Really before the fights started its decided whether or not your gonna mash that button
Instead we should be milking as much as we can out of the passive effect and hitting it at an opportune moment, and then have some kind of special requirement for reducing the CD on that virtue and getting it back (which we actually do on Justice and Courage but having some major traits related to them would be nice. Right now its more of an after thought and mostly effects pve)

Not that DH virtues are so good. I mean the suicide jump that kills you becouse it heals at the end of the leap, so it happens that you’re trying to leap away and you die midair. Or the shield thing that also gives you aegis and poof!! aegis is gone even under the shield: there is even a thread about that.

Ah funny about how virtues radius got nerfed and then suddenly pops a new class with boonsharing..

You can look at this class from every prospective you want and it’s still a mess.

I would like the Guardian to be like an Adeptus Astartes Chaper Librarian; and for the next specialization they should back to the the “tomes” as skill concept.

Guardians should be able to work as “tanks”, which is currently entirely impossible, with classes as Druid, Tempest, Scrapper and Herald outpacing Guardians in both sustain and damage -and oftenly in mobility-.

I think that currently Druids fill entirely the role Guardian should have: you can have huge sustain, big party heals and strong damage due the pets; you can either play as power druid or condi and both options are viable in both PvE and PvP/WvW content, and you still have a lot of mobility. The only drawback is that I don’t like Rangers, but taking in consideration that currently don’t like Guardians either seems fair.

guard doesnt need a rework. The only thing guard might need is an increase to its base hp.

I dont know where the whole thing about class roles came from because if it is Anet that created this, then they really are more clueless than i thought.

When you have 9 different classes, roles will definitely over lap, there are only so many things a class can be made to do. Overlapping roles shouldnt be a problem because roles shouldnt be what makes a class relevant but play styles. How different is it to play revenant compared to guardian even though they are both boon bots.

So naturally even though both classes are about the boons people will take guard over rev because they like the way guard plays and vice versa.

They should have allowed all the classes the ability to fill every possible role in the game through traits instead of the whole this build counters this build counters this class and this trait counters this trait and this trait only works well with that trait, turning the game (pvp especially) into a glorified game of rock paper scissors.

Ragion.2831:

guard doesnt need a rework. The only thing guard might need is an increase to its base hp.

This….Guardian is in a “good spot”.
A bit too strong (some classes have still difficulties against it…when not played correctly…outnumbered….on cooldown …. and with low hp)

At least guardians feel they have it in the good spot ;-)

Pls never change base HP. Guardian´s don´t need it, they avoid dmg with their magic abilitys, that must be improved. And that´s they key gameplay of this class.

I don´t want to play a stupid “blue shining” warrior(tank) who is facetanking everything because he got too much hits on head as a child.

We protect others (and ourselfs) with our powers, that´s why we are guardians.
Guardian=/=facetank

If u improve base HP, there would be no space to fix any other of the many issues, because we would be too strong then. Especially in pvp.

dont guardians melt on pvp due low health and low sustain??

What can be improved more blocks? guardian already have lots of them and it is useles in pvp.

More damage to make game more easy?

Stronger and longer shouts? after Anet have reduced the CD ?

Guardian have issues outside dps specs, due low surviability and low team support, nothing that guardian offers others classes dont have from themselves?

I could say aegis and blocks but we already have it in a very spammy and intersting wayfor our nearby allies, but that stays on pve and some wvw situations only.

Few trait merged and add new tools ???

I think the most important fixes to guardian right now should be decided upon based on both how many players the changes will affect as well as the simplicity of implementing said changes. As such, reworks of entire skills and traitlines should come later on when more of the dev team is free.

Considering the above points, the first thing that should be addressed is our weapon movesets. Many weapon skills seem to lag behind weapons of other classes and feel old/outdated. In particular:

Sword: too much counter play for this weapon. The 3rd sword auto should NOT be a projectile, and sword 3 should either not root us, or give some additional benefit. The projectile speed should be increased heavily. Sword also needs a symbol.

Mace: 3rd auto attack should cleave, mace 2 is far too slow for such a weak effect. The regen should apply 3sec of boon like symbol of energy or swiftness. Mace 2 should also apply damage for landing the strike like the 3rd hammer auto. Mace 3 is probably the worst block-then-effect skill in the game at the moment. It only blocks a single attack before activating, can be activated off a ranged attack, can’t be activated by pressing 3 again, provides very little duration of protection and its damage to cooldown ratio is mediocre.

Scepter: needs a little love. Gives very little protection, control or otherwise helpful skills and is pretty much just a medium-low damage mid-ranged weapon.Also, scepter 2 should be a symbol even if this means nerfing the cooldown.

Hammer: speed up hammer auto chain but take a tick off of the symbol. This would keep dps the same but make the chain more reliable in pvp. Hammer 3, 4 and 5 should all have their cooldown reduced. Hammer 3’s projectile speed should be increased as it’s already a huge telegraph. Hammer 4 should be quicker and be able to hit 3 targets. Hammer 5 should not root the guardian.

Staff: alright weapon. Staff 2 needs a lot of love though. As it is now, it is a very unreliable way of either dealing damage or healing allies. Buff the effect of detonating the orb such as adding a boon, blinding foes or increasing healing done to allies.

Greatsword: fair weapon. Might duration on 3rd GS auto should be increased a bit. The retaliation on symbol 4 should be a 3 second application like symbol of swiftness’ or energy’s boons are. The projectile speed on GS 5 should be increased.

Focus: very solid offhand. Buffing the projectile speed on 4 should be done though considering how much more projectile hate was introduced into the game.

Shield: i actually think it’s in a pretty good spot now. Shield 4 could use a small damage buff. My biggest problem is actually the trait. It should do something else in my opinion. Literally anything else; adding toughness is redundant.

Torch: needs love for both skills. Torch 5 especially, it’s a poor skill. It should offer more benefit to the guardian since it is essentially a low-damage channel. Torch 5 could also do well to have some burning attached to it. Torch 4 is alright, but the projectile could really use piercing attached to it as most torch burning skills on other classes are capable of hitting multiple targets. Ours technically can, (if you stand next to them) but this is a poor way to apply aoe burn.

Longbow: great ranged weapon, but needs a tad bit of love. LB 2 should either not root or should offer some additional benefit. LB 5’s wards should affect all targets, not just the one that got hit by the final attack. It’s already bad enough that the wards can be avoided by simply dodging the final impact.

I think some or all of these changes are quite easy to implement and would positively impact the largest amount of players. This would be a first great step towards revitalizing guardian and increasing build diversity.

I’ve been away form the game for 2 years +. That being said, my favorite class still does not have an adequate speed boost and is not viable in matches. That is why I did not buy the expansion.

From what I have read on the forums, with all the “unblockables”, and lack of viability as bunker and not being on par with other classes as far as support. I see no point. To say the least I am disappointed in the lack of response on these issues and the marked delay in patches.

Cant play the class as dps because of low HPs, and lack of speed boost. Non-viability of clerics gear in dungeons. Its just not the class that is unattractive, its the game also.

Maybe there will be a renewed interest, but from all that I have read on the forums. I doubt it. GL

NumenorLord.6539:

I would work around some main concepts

• Power Builds: Traps should become symbols. Easy buff that would make Longbow useful again. True Shot’s damage must be buffed and cripple enemies it hits.
• Condition Damage Builds: Radiance line is good imo, but Virtues line needs to be reworked so Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath synergize and don’t exclude each other (alongside Big Game Hunter); these traits should get buffed because you’re giving up 2 main defensive traits to take them and Guardian depends on 1 single condition that can be easily cleansed.
• Bunker Builds: To be competitive against Druid and Tempest, Battle Presence should grant protection to nearby allies. Indomitable Courage should grant Aegis to nearby allies each time you successfully block an attack. Sanctuary must be reworked so it has a reduced cooldown and cast Regeneration upon usage. A trait (Major Master) could cast blind when blocking. Hunter’s Fortification could cast Shield of Absorption once you get to 15% of your Health Pool.
• Spirit Weapon Builds: Make Spirit Weapons usable like Elementalist’s conjured weapons, they would become like a 3rd weapon set (Exotic Stats) and get destroyed on swap.

I think that reworking the spirit weapons to be equipped is a great idea. This would give guardians completely new weapon skills. For example they would keep there basic purpose: the bow for healing, the shield for protecting your team/party, the hammer for cc, and the sword for damage. this would also give more viability to the desired paladin and cleric roleplay. There may be difficulty avoiding redundancy in the spirit sword and hammer though.

slightly off topic I always thought it was weird that spirit weapons took the form of minions since that is undeniably a necromancer thing. maybe some one could explain the appeal.

Invexes.6580:

slightly off topic I always thought it was weird that spirit weapons took the form of minions since that is undeniably a necromancer thing. maybe some one could explain the appeal.

But they don’t. Having AI skills aren’t a Necro only thing. And in fact, making them more like Minions has been one of the more popular ideas for improving them.

Arcaedus.7290:

I think the most important fixes to guardian right now should be decided upon based on both how many players the changes will affect as well as the simplicity of implementing said changes. As such, reworks of entire skills and traitlines should come later on when more of the dev team is free.

Considering the above points, the first thing that should be addressed is our weapon movesets. Many weapon skills seem to lag behind weapons of other classes and feel old/outdated. In particular:

Sword: too much counter play for this weapon. The 3rd sword auto should NOT be a projectile, and sword 3 should either not root us, or give some additional benefit. The projectile speed should be increased heavily. Sword also needs a symbol.

Mace: 3rd auto attack should cleave, mace 2 is far too slow for such a weak effect. The regen should apply 3sec of boon like symbol of energy or swiftness. Mace 2 should also apply damage for landing the strike like the 3rd hammer auto. Mace 3 is probably the worst block-then-effect skill in the game at the moment. It only blocks a single attack before activating, can be activated off a ranged attack, can’t be activated by pressing 3 again, provides very little duration of protection and its damage to cooldown ratio is mediocre.

Scepter: needs a little love. Gives very little protection, control or otherwise helpful skills and is pretty much just a medium-low damage mid-ranged weapon.Also, scepter 2 should be a symbol even if this means nerfing the cooldown.

Hammer: speed up hammer auto chain but take a tick off of the symbol. This would keep dps the same but make the chain more reliable in pvp. Hammer 3, 4 and 5 should all have their cooldown reduced. Hammer 3’s projectile speed should be increased as it’s already a huge telegraph. Hammer 4 should be quicker and be able to hit 3 targets. Hammer 5 should not root the guardian.

Staff: alright weapon. Staff 2 needs a lot of love though. As it is now, it is a very unreliable way of either dealing damage or healing allies. Buff the effect of detonating the orb such as adding a boon, blinding foes or increasing healing done to allies.

Greatsword: fair weapon. Might duration on 3rd GS auto should be increased a bit. The retaliation on symbol 4 should be a 3 second application like symbol of swiftness’ or energy’s boons are. The projectile speed on GS 5 should be increased.

Focus: very solid offhand. Buffing the projectile speed on 4 should be done though considering how much more projectile hate was introduced into the game.

Shield: i actually think it’s in a pretty good spot now. Shield 4 could use a small damage buff. My biggest problem is actually the trait. It should do something else in my opinion. Literally anything else; adding toughness is redundant.

Torch: needs love for both skills. Torch 5 especially, it’s a poor skill. It should offer more benefit to the guardian since it is essentially a low-damage channel. Torch 5 could also do well to have some burning attached to it. Torch 4 is alright, but the projectile could really use piercing attached to it as most torch burning skills on other classes are capable of hitting multiple targets. Ours technically can, (if you stand next to them) but this is a poor way to apply aoe burn.

Longbow: great ranged weapon, but needs a tad bit of love. LB 2 should either not root or should offer some additional benefit. LB 5’s wards should affect all targets, not just the one that got hit by the final attack. It’s already bad enough that the wards can be avoided by simply dodging the final impact.

I think some or all of these changes are quite easy to implement and would positively impact the largest amount of players. This would be a first great step towards revitalizing guardian and increasing build diversity.

I like most of your ideas.
But just 3 points.

1. Staff, i don´t think that staff is a good, fun or a viable weapon. To be honest u have only 3 uses for it.
Swiftness and Empower in wvw zergs, the line of warden in wvw and pve farmtrains.

But it is never usefull in combat itself, that´s rly bad design in my opinion. So i think the guardianstaff needs the biggest rework of all weapons ingame.

2. Shield u´re right but i´d like to see a small change to shield 5 aswell, probably to make it like DH F3. Or a nice dmgburst because the cd is rly high and it should be a awesome feeling ability.

3, Longbow i think they should buff its dmg in pve(only pve) again, do bring it back as a viable weapon for rotations.