Guild Wars 2

Guardian Changes aka “We don’t care.”

Soooo my name is Enis Beqiri, I’m playing Guardian in PvP pretty much since Beta of GW2, many of you might know me from the 1v1 [Angz] Server and though the years I’ve learned that Anet doesnt care much about us at all, since we’re pretty good balanced, what isn’t the case at all.
We had exactly TWO (!!!) builds which were viable since Beta

1st Offensive Meditation Guard
2nd Bunker Shout Guard

All Anet did in this Patch is the same thing they do always. PRETENDING to change something for Guardians, by combining some lame traits, just to make Guardians think they did something.
The Meta is changing in an alarming Rate?! YEAH, but not for Guardians. At the moment we’re let’s say playable, our way of sustaining by outhealing Damage is weak, but we do good Damage as Offensive Guard and are not used, but playable as Bunker Guards.

While pretty much everything got a Buff Gurdians got like 3 new Traits, which are weak as hell and some combined stuff which nerfed Offensive Guard AND Bunker Guard

1st Offensive Guard: 1 Seconds Cooldown on “Might of the Protector”?! I loved to use Shelter to Stack up Might in Teamfights. What you are trying to tell me is, that when i block like 15 hits with shelter I get 2 STACKS OF MIGHT because of internal Cooldown?! IS THIS SERIOUS?!

2nd Bunker Guard: After HoT Bunker Guards are going to be replaced anyways by Revenants as a Bunker Support Class, trust me. And even then making Bunker Guards choose between “Pure of Voice” and “Writ of Persistence” ?! I never liked to play Bunker anyways, but alot of Guards did, so its disgusting to see what happens to this Spec.

Even Surveys say that Guardians are the least minded class in Game, since Anet thinks WE ARE PRETTY WELL BALANCED.
I don’t know about your Devs Anet, but I don’t think you have a Dev who plays a High-Class Guardian. Otherwise Grouch wouldnt present a Build on Dragonhunter which drops 4k Burn on a PvE Target which would NEVER NEEEEVER work in real PvP, since no Person would EVER engage on a Guardian THIS way.
So I, as a High-Class Guardian since Beta will tell you the Truth. GUARDIANS HAVE A TON OF PROBLEMS. Let me just tell you a few, if you want some more just pm me Ingame.

1st We have the lowest amount of viable Specs ingame, which are getting nerfed.
2nd We have the most of non used Utility Skills and Weapons (for example Shield) compared to ANY other class
3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class – OUTHEALING THE DAMAGE. It doesnt matter Anet if you Buff our Heal a little bit so we can outheal for example 1000 insteat of 800 points. 200 POINTS ARE NOTHING. WE NEED A RELIABLE WAY OF SUNSTAINING. All the heals, blocks and blinds, doesnt matter anything, if we’re too immobile to AVOID Damage. I would suggest something like a Port or something in HoT on Longbow instead of this useless “Deflecting” Shot. It would even be okay since Dragonhunter isn’t the same altruistic Class Guardians are. Sometimes even we Guards just need A LITTLE MOBILITY, to avoid some trouble. Come on it would be just one Port and not 50 Waterfields, 30 Explosive Finishers, 15 Medikits and Perma Stability just like another class *cough ENGIS*.

Yeah I dont know if even one Dev will read this and make this go threw his mind, but me and alot of other Guardians I know are losing the fun in GW2, I’m even considering to don’t Buy Guild Wars 2 HoT, which would be sad, since played Guild Wars 1 since I was a child. There are good Guardians around there Anet. And if you don’t have someone to care about them, ask some of them. I’m sure they’ll help you out.
And to my fellow Guardians. Let’s make Anet see this Post, after all we share the same Class

I have 6 words for U: We are in a good spot xD
I can even tell you spot we are gonna be in: trash can

And yes, they don’t play our class. As you saw it in last streams they do suck at it.

So…where are your proposed changes? I enjoy a rant as much as the next forum frequenter, but you absolutely right about no dev reading this thread; it’s just a bunch of complaints. If you’re really wanting to make a difference try actually be constructive about it: data, class comparisons, or even typing out what you think would work better.

I’ll admit, I don’t PvP on my Guard due to my preference for PvE and WvW. In those realms we got great changes that solidify our place in a team. Hunter Spec was an answer to some of the issue we’ve had since the release (Long-range options, mobility, control). Sure, it wasn’t as jaw-dropping as the Chronomancer, but at least I can give my exhausted scepter a break (poor little guy).

And if you elect not to buy the HoT expansion, well, that’s your choice. The rest of the Guards will adapt and continue spreading the light and take up our new Oath of personally hunting down and delivering the corpses of dragon enemies.

Now if you’ll excuse me I need to go rez and apply aegis to the ele on my team that just down for the 3rd time.

@savacli.8172 sorry but I as a Guard can’t take WvW and PvE players serious, since i’ve made the experience, that you lack in analizing skill mechanics while pressing autoattack in a Zerg. Thank You for your Opinon tho.

Even seeing you saying something about class comparisons is a prove, that you lack in understanding Guardian Mechanics. Class comparisons are pretty much the worst way of analizing deficites of a class, since every class works another way.

And I made a suggestion, how to make Guardian better in form of a port mate

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

Asmodal.6489:

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

@Asmodal.6489

Let me explain. Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it.

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

savacli.8172:

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

I say the same to you, what I said to Asmodal.6489

“Let me explain, Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it”

We have a good way of sustaining ourselves thru AH AND pure voice now but the fact they are putting write of persistence and pure voice as GM IS beyond dumb. The other problem is we only have a good way of sustaining ourselves and not so much the team. Too much damage and condies/poison for our peels to be as effective as they think.

But the OP is right. We need more ways to mitigate damage, not try to our sustain/heal it for both us and our teammates.

lilz shorty.1879:

We have a good way of sustaining ourselves thru AH AND pure voice now but the fact they are putting write of persistence and pure voice as GM IS beyond dumb. The other problem is we only have a good way of sustaining ourselves and not so much the team. Too much damage and condies/poison for our peels to be as effective as they think.

But the OP is right. We need more ways to mitigate damage, not try to our sustain/heal it for both us and our teammates.

I think after the Patch we will be not competitive anymore, since everything got buffed to the roof.

snoow.1694:

savacli.8172:

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

I say the same to you, what I said to Asmodal.6489

“Let me explain, Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it”

We have the Most on the demand. skills to actively avoid single hits in the game. On top we have access to a invurnability skill and a 2 sec block it all that heals us. We can trait for max vigor uptime. We have good Access to staility to escape lock down situations. We have three blinks that require skill to use defensively. We have three options to deny movement without stability. 2 active knockbacks.

What am I missing here?

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

savacli.8172:

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

I say the same to you, what I said to Asmodal.6489

“Let me explain, Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it”

We have the Most on the demand. skills to actively avoid single hits in the game. On top we have access to a invurnability skill and a 2 sec block it all that heals us. We can trait for max vigor uptime. We have good Access to staility to escape lock down situations. We have three blinks that require skill to use defensively. We have three options to deny movement without stability. 2 active knockbacks.

What am I missing here?

Ur missing the fact because we cannot escape if focused so we need a skills that block or mitigate damage. But the problem is a that a lot of those skills are tied to the same stupid skill for every situation.

What class has their invuln, stunbreaker, heal, protection, stab all tied to the same ffing skills.

Want to block damage! Use shelter oh but wait, that is also your heal.

Need protection or a quick block? Oh that is also your stunbreaker now and stability needed for later possibly.

Need to mitigate all damage? Oh you can’t do anything while using it and it’s your elite.

Need to cleanse condies? It’s also your stunbreaker…..

Engi has 25 second block to mitigate damage. Not tied to their heal.
Mesmer has distortion which is not tied to their elite. Engis heal is tied directly to its condi clear which can be controlled for a shorter cooldown and not tied to their stunbreaker.

I could go on but the concept behind guardian is not thought out well at all. Want people to sit on your symbols to Heal them? Lol really? What a joke.

Asmodal: What do you miss there? Any other builds except Meditation. (apart of the CC part)

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

savacli.8172:

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

I say the same to you, what I said to Asmodal.6489

“Let me explain, Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it”

We have the Most on the demand. skills to actively avoid single hits in the game. On top we have access to a invurnability skill and a 2 sec block it all that heals us. We can trait for max vigor uptime. We have good Access to staility to escape lock down situations. We have three blinks that require skill to use defensively. We have three options to deny movement without stability. 2 active knockbacks.

What am I missing here?

Dude if this what you are writing is serious then you have never played SPvP in your whole life and should avoid the Guardian Forums and espeacially balancing topics.
You can heal, block, blind as much as you want, if in a High-Class-Teamfight someone targets you as a Guard you are pretty much done, since you SIMPLY CANT outheal OR avoid the Damage you get.

The only reliable way of sustainig in my long experience is mobility and stealth. Guardians can try to heal as much as they want, and our block and invul skills simply wont help, because EVERY class will get after us and destroy us, cause we simply CANT GET AWAY.

We need ONE simple port and thats what im asking for, replacing deflecing shot for it would be fine, even give it a long cooldown, but after next patch we WILL NEED IT.

I simply don’t know whats going threw your mind, but I’m sure i can text you ingame and you can show me how good of a Guardian you are, if you think you are that experienced.

The reason why engis/ele/war sustain so well is because of high mobility/peels. That’s the sole reason for their huge sustains.
We got DH’s F2 and F3. If traited correctly, we could disengage better… just not better than the said classes. And we shouldn’t, imo.

HoT’s DH technically has a higher lockdown effect than the current meta Guardian, so you’d think our performance wouldn’t change all too much in the Conquest meta.

I agree no dev will read this because it’s a wall of text with no ideas or suggestions, making assumptions about how the game will work without having even experienced it. Fun times. I love when new balance patches come out. I remember when Guardians were ‘ruined’ because of the change to Vigorous Precision a few years back. Same here.

I hope Anet keep ‘ruining’ Guardian class because they are doing a horrible job at it.

Obtena.7952:

I agree no dev will read this because it’s a wall of text with no ideas or suggestions, making assumptions about how the game will work without having even experienced it. Fun times. I love when new balance patches come out. I remember when Guardians were ‘ruined’ because of the change to Vigorous Precision a few years back. Same here.

I hope Anet keep ‘ruining’ Guardian class because they are doing a horrible job at it.

No recommendations are needed because they do not listen and we’ve tried already. Some more than others and got nothing in return. Why waste our breath anymore. Only way would for guardian to not be played and just get slaughtered.

Obtena.7952:

I agree no dev will read this because it’s a wall of text with no ideas or suggestions, making assumptions about how the game will work without having even experienced it. Fun times. I love when new balance patches come out. I remember when Guardians were ‘ruined’ because of the change to Vigorous Precision a few years back. Same here.

I hope Anet keep ‘ruining’ Guardian class because they are doing a horrible job at it.

I made the Idea, that Guardians should get a Port, but you should probably first read and then judge. And ofc its a Wall of Text since it’s a serious topic. If you would watch closely you would see, that i nearly never posted on the forums, despite playing since beta, because i don’t like crying about my class. I play this kitten like for ever and thats one of the few times I actually have something du judge, so your whole comment doesn’t make any sence.

Am I one of the few who liked all the changes? :<

A shadow step on our contemplation would solve a lot of issues actually for many reasons you can’t seem to comprehend. Explaining it is meaningless.

lilz shorty.1879:

A shadow step on our contemplation would solve a lot of issues actually for many reasons you can’t seem to comprehend. Explaining it is meaningless.

Perhaps, but this isn’t “Build-a-Profession” so imagining what would ‘solve’ some particular issue isn’t relevant. Having a procing Aegis every 1/4 second would solve a lot of issues too, but that’s not going to happen either. Not because it’s unreasonable but because what I think doesn’t actually matter in the design.

Obtena.7952:

lilz shorty.1879:

A shadow step on our contemplation would solve a lot of issues actually for many reasons you can’t seem to comprehend. Explaining it is meaningless.

Perhaps, but this isn’t “Build-a-Profession” so imagining what would ‘solve’ some particular issue isn’t relevant. Having a procing Aegis every 1/4 second would solve a lot of issues too, but that’s not going to happen either. Not because it’s unreasonable but because what I think doesn’t actually matter in the design.

Yes but having that shadow step which cleanses condies and heals would solve one core issue of guardian unlike having aegis every 1 sec. And if they didn’t want us to engage then they need to give us better tools to sustain ourselves while not disengaging, which they fail to do.

lilz shorty.1879:

Obtena.7952:

lilz shorty.1879:

A shadow step on our contemplation would solve a lot of issues actually for many reasons you can’t seem to comprehend. Explaining it is meaningless.

Perhaps, but this isn’t “Build-a-Profession” so imagining what would ‘solve’ some particular issue isn’t relevant. Having a procing Aegis every 1/4 second would solve a lot of issues too, but that’s not going to happen either. Not because it’s unreasonable but because what I think doesn’t actually matter in the design.

Yes but having that shadow step which cleanses condies and heals would solve one core issue of guardian unlike having aegis every 1 sec. And if they didn’t want us to engage then they need to give us better tools to sustain ourselves while not disengaging, which they fail to do.

No argument from me … yes having that would solve something. I just don’t see how it’s relevant to the discussion here. It is actually intended that professions have deficiencies, like not disengaging easily, or an I WIN button that heals, cleanses and ports. I would also argue that having Aegis every fraction of a second helps solve the most important issue of all … being killed.

If you want to be more tanky and sustain, you can build for it. If you aren’t capable of playing a build that’s offensive and doing that, it’s what you should think about doing. Anet doesn’t need to implement anything there if they actually want players to have that freedom to choose builds that suit their play style/capability.

lilz shorty.1879:

We waited a year for them to address certain issues but nothing was addressed at all to help either spec be viable or needed in a composition, but haven’t gotten anything at all.

That’s not a reasonable expectation. If you wish to be continually disappointed, then continue to expect fixes to things that no one has committed to fixing or may not even be considered a problem to the devs.

Obtena: I’m absolutely happy that you see these changes as a challenge for us. Like ANET sees everything and they measured every options and they brought up these changes so we all get happy as the whole community and not just the guardian players… Fine…

Do you have any good answer why Shield is untouched? Just curious….

My option is: They don’t give a kitty!

:D

EDIT: I think Mercyful Intervention should be a port like snoow mentioned. Skill should be changed:
“If no ally is present in the targeted area, this ability will not heal.” But ANET clarified this. Anyway I do not think the aforementioned port should be a Meditation skill. Other builds need more mobility than the meta medi build…

Aggrostemma.1703:

Obtena: I’m absolutely happy that you see these changes as a challenge for us. Like ANET sees everything and they measured every options and they brought up these changes so we all get happy as the whole community and not just the guardian players… Fine…

Do you have any good answer why Shield is untouched? Just curious….

My option is: They don’t give a kitty!

:D

Noooo pls not the kitty ;(

Aggrostemma.1703:

Obtena: I’m absolutely happy that you see these changes as a challenge for us. Like ANET sees everything and they measured every options and they brought up these changes so we all get happy as the whole community and not just the guardian players… Fine…

Do you have any good answer why Shield is untouched? Just curious….

My option is: They don’t give a kitty!

:D

I think you’re right … if Anet thinks it’s how they want it to work, why would they change it?

Obtena.7952:

lilz shorty.1879:

We waited a year for them to address certain issues but nothing was addressed at all to help either spec be viable or needed in a composition, but haven’t gotten anything at all.

That’s not a reasonable expectation. If you wish to be continually disappointed, then continue to expect fixes to things that no one has committed to fixing or may not even be considered a problem to the devs.

Yes it is a reasonable expectation. We as customers expect them to deliver a well balanced game and if they can’t provide that and continue to be under this false illusion that guardian is fine, we have more than a right to say something and expect changes especially when it is quite evident it’s needed.

Their is zero reason to have a person who is developing a class falsfying his own beleif about a class when there are many issues that need to be resolved. It’s like saying Apple had a designer that continues to make a phone everyone thinks is ugly but he thinks is nice. It’s a waste of his time, our time, and money.