Guild Wars 2

Basically that. NO ONE else uses shields, because currently it is so abysmal and terrible compared to any other offhand. The cooldowns are HUGE and for such long cooldowns you would expect the skill to be meaningful, but

1. - 6 seconds protection (30 virtues) for up to 5 allies on a cone in front of you, plus half auto attack damage. 30 seconds cooldown.
2. - 4 seconds bubble which ABSORBS (does not reflect, absorbs) projectiles and knock back foes by less than half a leap distance. Pitiful heal. 40 seconds cooldown.

I am not asking for a buff here, I am asking for a fix. The shield is not remotely close to viable on daily situations such as dungeons and Orr. Its only use is on WvW wall defense, by shielding the arrow carts for FOUR seconds. And then you are useless again, because Guardians doesn’t even have a viable ranged weapon – but that is another topic. Also it MIGHT be useful in sPvP, but then again, you have undeniable better choices for either control or defense.

Thoughts? Critics? Suggestions? I am all ears. Ask anything to the only Guardian wearing shield in Isle of Janthir.

The added defense doesnt help?

Doxshund.9235:

The added defense doesnt help?

No it does not. I already have over 3k armor due to toughness, the extra defense isn’t even meaningful. Even if my toughness was low, it would be useless anyway. It gives about 50 defense lol.

I think they’re almost fine… sure, other offhands are more offensive oriented, but that’s the point of the shield, playing defensively.
A protection buff for 5 secs every 30 greatly reduces damage if it’s consistent (when fighting hordes and hordes for example), and the AoE is… regular.
The 5th skill is where it shines in my opinion, the knockback is in a huge area, meaning you could buy time to save someone, or just absorb a huge projectile, and can also AoE heal for a nice amount (1600~ for me at 80 and I have 19000 health).

Though I don’t use a Shield anymore, but that has nothing to do with the Shield itself. It’s just that a Greatsword is unmatchable for any of the 1H + OH combos we have…

Danicco.3568:

I think they’re almost fine… sure, other offhands are more offensive oriented, but that’s the point of the shield, playing defensively.
A protection buff for 5 secs every 30 greatly reduces damage if it’s consistent (when fighting hordes and hordes for example), and the AoE is… regular.
The 5th skill is where it shines in my opinion, the knockback is in a huge area, meaning you could buy time to save someone, or just absorb a huge projectile, and can also AoE heal for a nice amount (1600~ for me at 80 and I have 19000 health).

Though I don’t use a Shield anymore, but that has nothing to do with the Shield itself. It’s just that a Greatsword is unmatchable for any of the 1H + OH combos we have…

I don’t think you ever played with a Shield to say things like that. The protection buff for 6 seconds every 30 is useless when I can just keep protection permanently with a hammer. Moreover, the damage isn’t even close to regular, it does HALF a autoattack damage.

The knockback on skill 5 is FAR from huge, the distance is 320. It is laughable at best. And with that healing you must be stocked in healing power, because at 300 healing power I can barely see its effect.

And not all offhands are meant for offensive purposes, see Focus. I don’t see any reasonable reason to pick a shield over focus for anything else that isn’t wall defense in wvw, which I don’t even do anymore due to abysmal server balance.

I only use the mace/shield with scepter/focus for range myself. My damage isn`t the greatest but I have noticed a huge increase in my durabilty in combat. Now I wouldn`t want to sacrifce that after getting used to it.

Im going to be that person but I really want the bubble to absorb more damage or more healing at least for a type of mitigation. Right now that bubble ability is next to useless and the only thing it does iskitten my teammates off for knocking opponents back.

The CD’s are absurd for what little the skill offers, either buff our CD or buff the ability duration either or, idc.

I agree that the CD on the shields abilities are a little steep for what it offers.
But I use the scepter + Shield in WvW and it does really well. Between the bubble from the shield and Wall of reflection its amazing for sieges.
Now if only they would let us block Treb fire with it…

I used to dislike shields a bit because it’S inferior to focuses, but I changed my weapon set and now using Sword/Focus with Mace/Shield and actively switch during fights. Lack of range can be annoying, but meh. I’m still low level, I can do what I want.

Knuckledust,

Honestly, I agree with you.

I use Shields often because I enjoy the theme, and I like practicing my timing with Shield of Absorption. Furthermore, I get some pretty good mileage out of #4 in groups. But I agree. It could be better.

I’ve always thought it peculiar that a Shield has absolutely no block mechanic at all. Also, the long cooldowns on Shield make it an oddly passive off-hand weapon. The extra protection is nice, but not all that noticeable or significant without some investment in Valor. Short of switching Focus #5 with Shield #5, here are a few small suggestions I think might help Shield:

• Have #4 grant a small duration Aegis to the Guardian in addition to the group Protection. Conversely, remove the group Protection mechanic, replacing it with a short duration (1s?) Aegis.

• Reduce Shield of Absorption’s recharge by 10 seconds. Detonating the Shield of Absorption early adds an additional ten seconds to the recharge. Heal allies for a small amount per projectile absorbed. This should improve Shield of Absorption’s reliability and reward good timing.

What do you think? I might be overshooting it a tad, but I feel like this could make Shield more attractive.

“I think they’re almost fine… sure, other offhands are more offensive oriented, but that’s the point of the shield, playing defensively.”

Except the shield is pretty bad for defense.

Focus is much better.

I seem to agree. Basically never seen a guardian using shield either so far. They all run around with great swords

The above suggestions would definitely make the Shield a viable and useful weapon. At the moment, it is more a theme and decorative weapon, because its impact on gameplay is minimal at best.

I use the shield for theme purposes, really. The Corrupted shield is awesome skin-wise.

Am I the only one that actually likes the Shield?
Protection is pretty much the best boon in the game and you can’t underestimate a large AoE knockback that blocks projectiles and can AoE heal.
It might be a more PvP oriented weapon, but it really shines there.

Apparently I’m NO ONE. I use shield in dungeons. It’s useful there.

Shields were just given a nice buff when they merged traits. Very useful off-hand.

I think Focus #5 and Shield #5 should be switched, personally.

Thematically it’d make more sense too.

Personally I find group protection more beneficial with my skillset than yet another block (or blind, which is in effect the same thing). I’m plenty tough on my own, it’s nice to be able to extend some of that to others.

No, shield was not given a nice buff when they merged traits. The trait should be like that since the start, like warriors had/have.

No one uses the trait anyway, merged or un-merged. it is simply sub-par – you will really waste a master slot on +90toughness and 20% cooldown reduction? Guardians already have naturally high armor, this alone makes the trait useless. No one uses this trait whatsoever because it is pointless.

The protection given by #4 isn’t group protection, you have to hit all your team with it, since it is a cone in front of you. Since you are in front line anyway, this skill is subpar at best – I see it as plain useless.

In PvE I typically hit all the melee players since they’ll be behind the mobs while I’m in front (that’s why it was designed that way).

I actually take that trait, so I guess I’m nobody too, cool!

Shimond.2478:

I actually take that trait, so I guess I’m nobody too, cool!

Maybe we should form a club. [Insert Kingdom Hearts Joke]
I already used the 20% reduction trait, so getting additional Toughness is just a bonus to me.

………….. every guardian runs with shield it seems its prob our most used weapon for the class as a whole, its not the bread and butter weapon like sword and or GS or Scepter.
but in world and Spvp its easily a staple off hand in at least 1 of your weapon swaps.

again very rare you see a guardian that don’t got a shield in at least one load-out……
I for one use a shield in every weapon combo i currently run with .

I use sword/shield then mace/focus for my ’tank’ spec that I use in all my explorable dungeons. The focus has better defense but then again you get a cone attack/protection from shield and a absorb projectiles/push-back/aoe heal from shield. Very good if going for a spec that you want a little bit of damage from sword and serious durability from mace/focus.

the shield skills themselves are yes, somewhat lackluster. you are forgetting about a couple of things here tho, that at least I have observed as a guardian:

in sPvP you can lock a team in their starting spawn area for 6 seconds with one skill. LOCK THEM IN. in 6 seconds that means points for your team they didn’t get. You have 2 more skills that can do this…

the skill 4 grants a party buff as well as damage, and it can make or break a last minute defense in the right situation.

the skill 5 provides a lot of combo ops with other classes, especially other classes with more range than us (see: all of them =P)

There is one glaring problem with the skill, and I don’t know if it has been fixed yet:

Skill 5’s area of knockback scales with your race. Asuran’s bubbles are far smaller than Norn or Charr bubbles, and it effects where the mobs end up afaik. It’s a fundamentally sound ability that is completely broken.

I clearly stated in my post that Shield is MAYBE useful in sPvP. I am not denying that. I am not denying either that some people like using the shield, but what YOU can’t deny is that the shield is simply subpar to any other offhand. Focus offers more defense and survivability, torch of course, more control, and if you want even more control you simply grab the Hammer.

It seems that some people take personal the constructive criticism to game mechanics. The shield being subpar and awful is not subjective, it is very clear and obvious. A 4 seconds bubble on a 40 seconds CD and a 5 seconds protection buff on a 30 seconds CD. Given most pve encounters last 1/5 of this time, those skills are ultimately useless.

It is like saying the new hammer trait made the Hammer a whole new awesome weapon… because of a CHANCE to apply chill with a 45secs internal CD… come on guys, I am trying to make the game better and enjoyable to everyone.

Shield is not good in most situations sadly.

Reasons:
1) Shield boon work only in a cone in front of you. Most times you are first-lining and your allies are behind you.
2) Too long CDs even traited. People hates long CDs unless the skill is very powerful.

The Focus is a better defensive weapon for my character. But I don’t have any troubles staying alive, so I use the Shield to make sure my allies live longer. I care little for damage, so I don’t take the Torch. And I already use the Hammer, but my Sword needs an off-hand and Shield is the right fit for me.
And really, it’s okay to criticize game mechanics (I do it all the time) and people are generally too quick to call you a whiner. By all means, keep arguing your case.
But from my experience, the Shield is really good in non-solo content. Could the cooldowns stand to be a bit shorter? Sure, I wouldn’t mind. But is it needed? No, I don’t think so.

Your use of absolutes cracks me up. You’re pretty close to coming across like a troll, to be honest. I enjoy my shield, and I enjoy giving protection to others. Hammer, yeah sure you can keep Protection up on yourself if you sit there and auto attack, but that really does no good if you want party support. Fact is, most of the time I don’t even care if I’m facing any enemies when I use #4, as long as I maximize the protection gained. Just for this skill alone the trait you think is worthless is worth taking.

I think its fine, could use a better heal on SoA detonate.

What I hate is the fact that the #4 skill is a cone in front of you. I have to Roll back use it then roll back in to apply it to my allies.
It should just be aoe around you rather than cone.

That’s strange that people don’t use it, I do when im running with a sword or scepter, i actually really like its abilities. especially for knocking people off an ally that they are trying to stomp haha. Been using the staff more often lately though, feel a bit more effective with it because of the force multiplication with the number 4 skill. Seems to help break zergs really well.

I kindly ask those who doesn’t have anything to contribute to this thread, to simply not post.

For those Guardians who do like the Shield, I agree it can be a good weapon and that is one of the reasons I use it, besides just looks. But the CDs are awfully long for TOO LITTLE. I can offer party wide protection and regen with Save Yourselves! on a 28secs CD.

Hammer offers AOE PROTECTION permanently if you trait for symbols. The shield #4 offers a cone wide protection which is abysmal if you are intended to be in melee range using it.

Honestly, I know GW2 has MANY fanboys and that is the primary reason I left Gw2Guru. Please only post if you have any insights on the subject.

I feel your pain. Here is what I want,

Skill 4: Instant cast, buffs and damages in a circle around you.
Skill 5: Reflects projectiles, Blocks instead of Pushes.

Why?

Skill 4: Move, Aim, Swing, Miss, <— Hate this.
Skill 5: Absorb is meh, but the Knock-back tends to mess with my Teams AoE’s and Symbols. Especially if I’m in melee. It does open me up for a quick transition to ranged combat? But I’m a Guardian. I don’t spec for ranged combat. Plus, blocking is effective against more opponents than interrupting ever is.

I have basically used mace/shield from 1-80 and I also use the shield trait. I use 2hand for farming only.

My experience so far with the shield in pvp and pve is I am unkillable. I can solo champion mobs. If I try to switch to a 2hand and fight the same mob, I die.

The shield seems to be more group or pvp oriented. Yeah the focus blocks 3 attacks, but the shield gives 33% damage reduction to yourself and many other people. If you are being focus fired on in pvp, that 33% is WAY better than blocking 3 attacks which the mace can do in the same amount of time anyway. Using Protector’s Strike from a mace and Shield of Judgement, you can have protection up almost all of the time.

I agree with Shield of Absorption; it leaves much to be desired. The cooldown needs to be decreased or the duration needs to be increased to 6 seconds. Another idea is move the healing part to while the shield is up, rather than having to activate the healing and lose the shield, but that might be too good.

Increasing the duration of its effects is the simplest fix I can think of

Knuckledust.5621:

I kindly ask those who doesn’t have anything to contribute to this thread, to simply not post.

For those Guardians who do like the Shield, I agree it can be a good weapon and that is one of the reasons I use it, besides just looks. But the CDs are awfully long for TOO LITTLE. I can offer party wide protection and regen with Save Yourselves! on a 28secs CD.

Hammer offers AOE PROTECTION permanently if you trait for symbols. The shield #4 offers a cone wide protection which is abysmal if you are intended to be in melee range using it.

I really think you’re underestimating the Shield’s abilities. AoE Protection (paired with AoE damage) without having to jump through hoops is pretty potent as is knocking back an entire group of enemies, blocking their projectiles and finishing of with a heal.

SO IN CONCLUSION: Shield of #4 needs a little more oomf, a little extra ability and utility. I personally like the Aegis idea…because its a shield, it blocks. And then just say the protection gets applied after the Aegis ends…if thats possible. As for Shield of Awesome, most agree it needs a simple recharge reduction.

Ynna…. the protection isn’t AoE, it is on a cone in front of you. The damage isn’t AoE either, and is just terrible. The knockback distance is less than half a leap (320) and the heal is lackluster to say the least.

And you are forgetting those are on a 30 and 40 seconds CD. Warriors got a godmode signet on 48 seconds CD lol, AND IT IS A ELITE SKILL, just throwing a little comparison. so you can theorize less and start actually seeingthe reality of the game.

Knuckledust.5621:

And you are forgetting those are on a 30 and 40 seconds CD. Warriors got a godmode signet on 48 seconds CD lol, AND IT IS A ELITE SKILL

Yeah, when your weapon skills have the same CD as an Elite skill, something’s wrong. The CD on the shield’s abilities need to be reduced. Or the skills themselves need to be amped up in order to match the length of the CD.

i dont use the shield, but 4 and 5 are game changers, simple as that.

My issue with the shield is not that its skills suck. Perhaps they do, but that’s not the issue.

No. The problem is that those skills are just not what I want my shield to do. I equip a shield because I want high defense, and I also want to LOOK like I have good defense, because my character’s physical appearance is important for me. Shields are a very symbolic piece of equipment that signifies defense. So in light of that, I find it very problematic that the guardian’s shield skills are not his best defensive options. Basically, the guardian has to choose between being tanky and looking tanky. That’s just not right.

And it gets even stranger when you consider that the guardian’s shield can’t block anything while a mace or a focus can. Nevermind that blocking is the reason d’être of shields in the first place.

Look at the warrior in comparison. If she wants to go all-out on defense, the shield is by far her best off-hand option, as it should be. If you look at it only from a defense perspective, Shield Stance is without question the best block skill in the game, if not the best defensive skill period. There is no limit to how many attacks it can block for its duration, and the cooldown is shorter then every other big block skills (ie: Shield of Wrath) and can be made even shorter with traits. (Actually, the engi’s Gear Shield is even better but it’s on a fixed skill bar and uses a utility slot while the warrior can use a main-hand like the Mace and have even more defense skills.) So yeah, the warrior’s shield is used exactly for the reason you want to use it.

Now, I’m not asking for Shield Stance for guardians because they already have enough defense as it is, but the shield SHOULD be the guardian’s off-hand of choice for defense, (or at least equal to the focus) and it should have something to do with blocking Personally, I think a skill like “block next attack, give protection to allies on a successful block” would be perfect. It would reward the guardian that can time his block, and the party buffs would fit well in the profession’s support-oriented gameplay

but guardians dont NEED any more defense. you have virtues and defensive abilities on all of your main hands. instead, you get utility. if you want more defense, use the focus.

Well, I have used a mace/shield from lvl 1-80 and I do think it could be improved upon. The little arrow bubble buff was decent even though the cooldown is pretty long. I do think the protection buffs recast times should be reduced. If a hammer can spam that prot buff then why would a shield, that is the epitome of defensive play not designed to be more protective then a 2 handed weapon?

I often think to myself what anet is thinking when they design some of the skills and the way they choose to initate them. I have a focus in my offhand for my scepter slot that will give me 3 blocks. How in the world does a cowbell on a twisted stick manage to pull this off?

Banewrath.5107:

I have a focus in my offhand for my scepter slot that will give me 3 blocks. How in the world does a cowbell on a twisted stick manage to pull this off?

Magic?

Read through the entire thread and I agree with the general sentiment that shields are extremely lackluster compared to the alternatives.

There should be a real incentive to play as a defensive Guardian; Sword/Board should be rewarded but it’s not – the sword is offensive and the shield is useless. It seems to be contrary to the theme of the weapons/armor. The most defensive weapon set up is Scepter/Focus, which doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

I’d love to see the dev team take a good hard look at Guardians. In beta we had bigger health pools (which helped A LOT). Since that nerf Guardians have never been quite the same. I’m not entirely sure what our role is. We’re not DPS, and if we try to go that route we’re glass cannons with mediocre damage. We’re not healers; Engineers do that better. We not tanks; the health pool nerf took care of that.

Guardians – jack of all trades, masters of none?

Please get off your high chair and talk to the rest of us like we might already have an understanding of the game. Insulting.

Hammer protection is not optimal compared to shield, there’s no argument. People have to be on top of it, and in dungeons that’s just too much of a risk.

AbsintheMinded.4609:

Please get off your high chair and talk to the rest of us like we might already have an understanding of the game. Insulting.

Hammer protection is not optimal compared to shield, there’s no argument. People have to be on top of it, and in dungeons that’s just too much of a risk.

But the 4 skill of the shield doesn’t help much unless you have many melee party members when u use it since its a frontal cone, so it isnt that much better than a symbol on the ground either.

I agree with the sentiment that the shield just doesnt feel defensy enough, i mean like was earlier said, when i take a shield i want to block things, and its funny how i have to take a focus if i want to block things…

Providing buffs to the party is fine, but thematically, should that not be with the more magicky of the off hands ie the focus rather than the more defense orientated shield?

AbsintheMinded.4609:

Please get off your high chair and talk to the rest of us like we might already have an understanding of the game. Insulting.

Hammer protection is not optimal compared to shield, there’s no argument. People have to be on top of it, and in dungeons that’s just too much of a risk.

Well let`s be honest here. Even though it might not be optimal in your eyes does not change that it can indeed be spammed every few seconds. The shield with traits is on a 24 second cooldown. For the shield being the icon of defensive play, you could straight tank a mob with a hammer and have protection up for close to two seconds every 5 seconds or so. with the shield you can get it once every 24 seconds for 5 seconds. How exactly does that balance out?

Now if you were designing a game, would you give a 2h weapon the ability to spam a defensive buff that a true defensive tool like a shield could not?

Vigil.3408:

There should be a real incentive to play as a defensive Guardian; Sword/Board should be rewarded but it’s not – the sword is offensive and the shield is useless. It seems to be contrary to the theme of the weapons/armor. The most defensive weapon set up is Scepter/Focus, which doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
I’d love to see the dev team take a good hard look at Guardians. In beta we had bigger health pools (which helped A LOT). Since that nerf Guardians have never been quite the same. I’m not entirely sure what our role is. We’re not DPS, and if we try to go that route we’re glass cannons with mediocre damage. We’re not healers; Engineers do that better. We not tanks; the health pool nerf took care of that.

Guardians – jack of all trades, masters of none?

A couple of questions/remarks:
1) Why does Sword and Board be encouraged? What makes that combination more worthy than Mace and Shield or Scepter and Focus? And you seem to belief that a Sword should be a defensive weapon. Why is that?
2) Wouldn’t Mace+Shield be more defensive? Or Hammer, depending on how you view “defensive”? Come to think of it, what do you mean with “defensive”?
3) Our health pools are adequate. Our lower base health is mitigated by a lot of passive defenses. Make an offensive build. It’s likely that still 1/3th or 1/4th of your skills help you survive, together with the Virtues.
4) We don’t have a strict role. No profession is supposed to have that. We can do great support, damage and control. I’ve played those roles (in sPvP only did support and control in PvE). We can be good at all of them.
5) I’ve tanked Champion mobs with no problem at all. Using Sword and Shield.

I see the people claiming: “The Shield should be for blocking,” the same way I see people who think guns can’t be magic. They’re stuck in a traditional fantasy mindset for no reason at all.
The Guardian has all the blocks it needs. No need to add more. The Shield is still a defensive weapon.

I have to agree – I play a defensive guardian, but instead of rolling with shield I have to use Focus. Because it’s just 10x better 90% of time. For most of the ranged trash in dungeons Wall of reflection with healing and occasional sanctuary is good enough. For melee trash the short knocback is barely any setback, and the 3 blocks from Focus outshines it completely.
And for the bosses? Knocback works once out of 5 times, so we can scratch that out. And the only bosses that truely could benefit from some sort of barrier mechanic, fully disregard all types of barrier mechanic

So yeah, the shield is not a good defensive tool, which is indeed a bit absurd. Switching the skills of focus and shield would probably fix the problem. Then we could go with our shiny shields, and still have the desired defense.

Pretty much the only real use I see for shield is sPVP, and there it actually shines. I still won’t take the trait for it, since I spec for meditations.