Guild Wars 2

I used to run shield when I first started to play, buy I stopped. Focus is just so much better. You have a good offensive and defensive skill. Much better then the shield.

In other games where a shield is an optional item for characters (this includes WoW, Rift, WAR, and more), the shield will often account for 25-50% of your total armor (+33-100% of your armor w/out a shield).
In GW2, it ups my armor from 2443 to 2568. Big woop.

So, how do the abilities it provides compare with a focus or torch for being tanky (yourself)?
Shield of Judgement provides 6 seconds of protection, and does damage on a 30 second cooldown. Oh, an only 5 ally maximum.
Shield of Absorption provides a knockback plus 4 seconds of projectile absorption on a 40 second cooldown.
Using a torch is obviously offensive, as you can burn enemies near you (and burn it for a long range attack), and have a ‘fire breathing’ style attack.
But a focus provides you with a cone heal/blind (far better at mitigating damage than a 6s protection buff). 4 bounce limit, but all 4 bounces will be meaningful (unless there are less targets than that). The focus also provides the best block skill: Shield of Wrath blocks the next 3 attacks, and when it is exhausted, it explodes (and is a finisher, which means with your own combo fields, you can easily set up an Area Retaliation boon, or with longer cd’s off your couple Fire Fields, 3 stacks of Might to the area).

Now, the shield’s knockback does have uses, and so does the cone of protection/damage. However, these abilities feel like they should be on an offhand that is more focused on support then damage mitigation (ie, the focus), while the focus’ abilities feel more proper on the shield. Of course, if you did that, then nobody would use the focus, because not only are they thematically wrong on the shield, they also suck.

In fact, the only reason I ever have for using a shield is the extra knockback available. A focus lets me support my team better (a heal and condition removal is better than 6s protection), as well as do better damage (2 abilities with damage, not 1), and defend myself better (the availabile blind and 3-block shield).

Why would anyone run a shield over a focus. Compare the two skills for each

#4
Shield
Create a shielding wave in front of you that damages foes and gives protection to yourself and up to five allies. small damage, but 5s protection
30 second recharge

Focus
Pass a ray over foes and allies. Foes are damaged and blinded. Allies gain regeneration and cure one condition. 3s of regen, blind, and condition cure. 25 second cd

#5
Shield of Absorption
320 knockback, absorbs incoming projectiles for 4 seconds, combo field light 40 second cd

Shield of Wrath
blocks 3 attacks over 4 seconds, if it isn’t destroyed it deals a fair amount of aoe damage, also combo finisher blast. 45 second cd

My guardian is only mid 60s though and I’ve only done a few dungeons. So maybe latter on the shield becomes more useful. So far though it has been absolutely garbage for me. I’ve had one in dungeons, never used it because the focus was better in every situation. Any time I would have used the dome my Wall of Reflection (32 second cd btw with trait Virtue VI) was ready to go. It lasts longer 10s, it reflects instead of absorbs, and creates a combo field.

It’s fine if people like shields, but focus is simply better in every way from my experience so far.

edit:

Also anyone that thinks the blind on focus is a waste doesn’t get how powerful sword/focus is for defense and offense.

Consider what sword/focus has
TWO blinds, 2 forms of blocking, regen, condition removal,

vs
1 blind, 1 block, 1 projectile absorption, 1 knockback (which usually manages to just push the enemy out of aoes away from your melee), and 5s protection most of the time is wasted because of being a cone instead of an area.

Ynna.8769:

I see the people claiming: “The Shield should be for blocking,” the same way I see people who think guns can’t be magic. They’re stuck in a traditional fantasy mindset for no reason at all.
.

Ynna, I`m sorry but the shield has been made for blocking since it`s invention. When people didn`t block with it, it was hung on the wall because it really had no other purpose. Just imagine how the roman legion, atheneans, or spartans would have done if thier shields had long cooldowns on thier arrow bubbles or protection buffs instead of blocking ability. Allthough, a phalynx all throwing out the protection buff at once with all the aoe damage would be pretty neat.

But seriously, a shield is indeed intended for blocking. That is the draw to wanting to use the thing. Now when I can “Magically” block 3 attacks with a cowbell and not “Magically” block attacks with a shield, you kinda see the jack backwards direction anet decided to go in when coming up for ideas to try and make item skills interesting.

Vigil.3408:

Read through the entire thread and I agree with the general sentiment that shields are extremely lackluster compared to the alternatives.

There should be a real incentive to play as a defensive Guardian; Sword/Board should be rewarded but it’s not – the sword is offensive and the shield is useless. It seems to be contrary to the theme of the weapons/armor. The most defensive weapon set up is Scepter/Focus, which doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

I’d love to see the dev team take a good hard look at Guardians. In beta we had bigger health pools (which helped A LOT). Since that nerf Guardians have never been quite the same. I’m not entirely sure what our role is. We’re not DPS, and if we try to go that route we’re glass cannons with mediocre damage. We’re not healers; Engineers do that better. We not tanks; the health pool nerf took care of that.

Guardians – jack of all trades, masters of none?

I can understand you feel the guardians are not defensive enough if you honestly believe the SCEPTER is our most defensive weapon.

Try the mace sometime. Honestly if you’re geared, traited and skilled right, you don’t even need an offhand to be tougher and more defensive than any other profession in the game. The shield is just a plus for group defense, and that’s why I use it.

My posts have (obviously) been concerning group support, citing that no matter how awesome it may be to stand still and sit on a Symbol of Protection, it does nothing for your group. I like shield for this reason and insulting people to try to get shield balanced or buffed is going to get no respect from me. You like hammer, great, when I’m in a party and want to throw Protection out I equip a shield.

I used to run Mace/Shield for my Guardian’s “tank” mode until I came on the forums and everyone was gushing about the Focus’s 3 blocked attacks…That made me take another look at focus (which I had abandoned around level 10 or so), and since then I haven’t looked back. It’s kind of sad that the focus gives me, in my opinion, much better CC and protection options, especially when I need to use my Guardian as a tank. You’d think a Shield would be the go-to choice there.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts – apparently the sentiment of Shield being subpar is dominant and spread among the Guardian community just as I thought.

The main problem I see here is, even though the CDs of shield and focus being almost the same, when you use the Focus abilities you can effectively turn tables, recover from near death and deny a HUGE amount of damage. blind, regen, block – this sounds like something a shield would do, right. Now when you go back to the shield, you have a lackluster cone protection buff with awful, AWFUL damage and a FOUR seconds bubble which doesn’t even reflects projectiles. Both on a way too long CD for what it offers.

As I said, besides the CD being comparable to some Elite skills, there are also utilities which makes the job of those skills but 10x better – wall of reflection REFLECTS the projectiles, creates a combo field and lasts 10s if not traited. 15 seconds if traited. On the same CD or lower if traited.

I mean… really?

The reason of this topic was to get attention of the Staff, since I saw them giving attention to a fair amount of posts regarding class balance. I hope we can achieve this.

Banewrath.5107:

Ynna, I`m sorry but the shield has been made for blocking since it`s invention. When people didn’t block with it, it was hung on the wall because it really had no other purpose. Just imagine how the Roman legion, Athenians, or Spartans would have done if their shields had long cooldowns on their arrow bubbles or protection buffs instead of blocking ability. Although, a phalanx, all throwing out the protection buff at once with all the AoE damage, would be pretty neat.

But seriously, a shield is indeed intended for blocking. That is the draw to wanting to use the thing. Now when I can “magically” block 3 attacks with a cowbell and not “magically” block attacks with a shield, you kinda see the jack backwards direction Anet decided to go in when coming up for ideas to try and make item skills interesting.

The Romans would have done more or less the same. Maybe better, since they would be able to defend their support troops even better (like Phoenician archers). For Athens it would made little difference, since the bulk of their power was in ships, but a well-coordinated phalanx of Guardians would be a fearsome sight. For the Spartans it would probably also made little difference, although they did like to use their shield more offensively.
And the shield does block. Projectiles (I always imagine that scene from 300 where they’re showered with arrows when I use Shield of Absorption.). Mechanically speaking, the Shield of Judgment pairs the “shield bash” with a roundabout block mechanic (Protection).
Warriors already have mundane blocking, so for the sake of variety, Guardians can’t have that. Are their better things the Shield could do? Sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s absolutely terrible.

One thing they could consider doing, though it might screw up some weapon skills, is something like what the thief gets with dual wielding. Where the #3 skill changes depending on what combination of weapon + shield you use. This might solve the variety problem people seem to have an issue with. It’s something in general with offhands, you’re only limited to two abilities so if you don’t like either (or even one) you feel like the offhand is junk.

Does no one playing this game come from GW1? I’ll get to this statement in a second.

Shield is amazing as is in all aspects of gameplay. I’ve NEVER taken shield off of one of my swaps. I play with it with a mace in PvE and with a sword in sPvP and WvW. The utility of SoA is unmatched and free prot every 30 seconds on SoJ is extremely nice. Yes we have prots on some utility skills but guess what? With SoJ I can 1) combine it with the utility skill to keep it on longer or 2) use a different utility skill because I already have prot every 30 seconds.

Now to my GW1 statement. Some people here must have forgotten that ANET has balanced these skills with both utility skills AND weapon swaps in mind. Learn to use BOTH of your weapon swaps. You should rarely enter a fight and exit a fight and be able to say “I didn’t swap during that fight”. If you see holes in your weapon sets, try combining them with a weapon set and/or utility skills with synergies that fill those holes. Remember just because you read utility skill XYZ should never leave your bar somewhere online doesn’t mean that’s true for your build.

Well i never said the shield was terrible. After all i do commit to using one about 99% of my playtime. I do find the skills useful in thier own way. I use the bubble heal as a regular back up heal and it works good for healing everyone around you. The protection buff is nice but since it is on a longer cooldown It would probably be better to swap that out for the solid 3 block group buff for 5 seconds instead of the -33 damage. I would gladly sacrifice the damage from the protection skill for the block skill. But to me it wouldn`t make sense to use a focus even for the 3 blocks for melee because I would then I lose 900 armor or so. I use the scepter/focus setup when i need to kite or get away. But I am mace/shield all the way.

Kousei, the only reason you think the shield is amazing is because, as you said, you NEVER took it off and always use it. If you use the Focus for 5 minutes you will never go back to the shield, because it offers more survivability, utility and damage.

The utility of SoA is FAR, FAR from unmatched and SoJ protection is not free, it takes one weapon skill slot. Both of these offer way too little utility and defence for such a abysmal cooldown duration.

On almost the same cooldown (elite skill), warrior have 30 seconds swiftness, fury and might. Now to warrior’s shield. #4 stuns enemies and does significant damage, on a 25 seconds cooldown. #5 makes you block ALL incoming attacks for x period – on a 30 seconds cooldown.

Warrior and Guardian shields are meant to have different uses – while guardians offers more party wide utility, warriors offer more OVERALL utility and unmatched defense while you have threat on you.

Simplifying: The problem is the CD on the Guardian shield skills is awful. The duration of the bubble is laughable since it doesn’t even reflects. Protection being a cone and not AoE like shouts, is stupid. Furthermore, the Focus is a superior offhand in every way.

I’ve always found it strange that the Guardian shield just does not have a block mechanic in any of its skills. It seems so counterintuitive to the whole idea of using a shield—to block things. I don’t think it’s a bad weapon, but I can imagine a lot of players being thrown off by Focus being our go-to offhand for personal defense.

I play support as a guardian in dungeons (mace/shield and staff) and ability 4 for the shield is amazing…protection for everyone is a 33% reduction in ALL damage…time it with a big ability that a boss is using and it can dramatically increase the chance of survival. Also, I have no idea why you think people do not use the Shield trait which grants 90 toughness and 20% cool-down reduction…that is a very beneficial trait to have going support. Again, this is only from a PvE perspective.

I have to agree on ability 5 though…It’s cooldown is fine but the effect should be of greater importance.

Have you really given support shield a try? Or are you part of the other 85% of GUARD-ians who just think of themselves and not the group?

Well at least everyone agrees that Shield of Awesome needs a recharge time reduction.

I still don’t quite get why Shield doesn’t have any blocking while the Focus does…but that is more a question of logic than anything.

Like others have said… a quick comparison to the warrior’s shield can easily make ours look useless. I only take it for the appearance.

I don’t want to hold akittenfocus to block attacks; I want to hold a shield to block attacks.

I’d have to agree that shields not blocking doesn’t fit the use of the item. The reason shields exist anywhere in history is to block potential harm. Yes I know, shields can be used offensively to bash or push, but you get shot at, slashed at, stabbed at, and attacked far more often than strictly attacking with it.

Shield of Absorption is a great skill, (on a long CD) true, but it doesn’t really seem to fit the role of the shield. Shield of Wrath fits it much better. Think about it, you already have to stop and kneel (Aka Focus) on using SoA as well as FOCUS on detonating it for a heal. Yet you have SoW on the focus that which puts SHIELDS that spin around your body and BLOCKS 3 attacks? That’s honestly a real head scratcher.

Personally, I like shield #4 skill, but (and I know I might draw heat from this) I’d rather it have a similar animation to warriors Shield #4 skill but rather than stun on contact, it bursts or pulses and puts protection on the 5 nearest allies around you. That way we get a little split second movement increase as well as a resolution to the cone protection issue if you are in the front line in battle.

This is just my opinion, take it as you will.

Honestly, if you’re going to buff SoA, you’re probably going to have to split the skill into different PvE and PvP versions. There’s no buts or maybes about it – in PvP, SoA is a phenomenal skill, so much that it alone makes the Shield the default choice for any Guardian build with an open offhand slot. SoJ isn’t really even a factor – SoA just brings so much to the team in PvP that it’s worth trading both skills from either of the other offhands for it, and if it were the Shield’s only skill, you’d probably still see PvP Guardians running it.

To elaborate, SoA’s utility is enormous. The knockback is excellent for point defense, helping keep opponents off the point long enough for you to almost neutralize it from full – any further CC will finish the job. That knockback can also be used as an interrupt, cutting off enemy heals, stomps, revives, and other channels. Combine this potential with one of the Guardian’s teleports, and you can pull clutch moves like warping to an enemy about to stomp a faraway ally, knocking them away, and then reviving your ally while the enemy is still trying to get on his feet. Did I mention that everything I just listed is the product of the knockback alone? Never mind the 360 degree projectile defense or the chance to heal or the Light Field the skill puts down (why hasn’t the Light Field come up more often in this thread? Do people not like AoE Retaliation or condition cleanses?).

I admit, I wouldn’t mind seeing SoJ as a circular AoE, because it is a little awkward to use – frankly, I use it more as a personal protection buff than anything, and typically just when the thought strikes me to do so, since SoA overshadows it so greatly. Cutting SoA’s cooldown, however, would make the skill absurdly powerful in PvP, so like I said before, a PvE/PvP split would be the only good way for that to happen, and I doubt Anet is going to start up with that so early into the game’s lifespan.

Buff shields please.

Tomas Valheru.3065:

I’d have to agree that shields not blocking doesn’t fit the use of the item. The reason shields exist anywhere in history is to block potential harm. Yes I know, shields can be used offensively to bash or push, but you get shot at, slashed at, stabbed at, and attacked far more often than strictly attacking with it.

I don’t understand. How is the Shield not blocking potential harm? The whole Protection-boon is build around preventing damage (33% of it) and Shield of Absorption is preventing in two ways: by blocking projectiles and knocking back enemies.
You know what you should complain about? The Mace being able to block.

Shield in WvW isn’t as useful as other weapons. Great for point defender in spvp

I bring my shield for appearance. Focus is better hands down. The trait for +90 toughness and -20% cooldown isnt really enough.

All I ask for is for the #4 to NOT be a cone and be aoe so it actually helps my buddies behind me and the #5 to have a MUCH faster cooldown, or a WAY better heal, or a little bit of both.

Ynna do you even play Guardian or you simply like to be against common sense?

5 seconds protection, to a cone in front of you, on a 30 seconds CD and a 4 seconds bubble with ridiculous knockback on a 40 seconds CD. Do you think the shield is really viable? Common sense, please.

Actually I’ve used all of the weapons. You completely missed and ignored half of my post. I use Scepter/Focus on swap from my Mace/Shield in dungeons when I have to kite for example. Focus is not as defensive as Shield. Focus has 1 defensive skill. I’d rather switch to Hammer than a Focus set for defense. It offers a lot more control and thus defense.

But back on topic… Both Shield skills are defensive. The protection on SoJ is self explanatory. SoA’s knockback alone can be used defensively in multiple ways not to mention the obvious projectile blocking.

Knuckledust.5621:

Ynna do you even play Guardian or you simply like to be against common sense?

No, I enjoy wasting my time arguing with people about something I don’t play.
That was sarcasm.

Five seconds Protection, to a cone in front of you, on a 30 seconds CD and a 4 seconds bubble with ridiculous knockback on a 40 seconds CD. Do you think the shield is really viable? Common sense, please.

I mostly play sPvP (for some reason) and I would use the Shield even if it only had Shield of Absorption. Even without the heal. As I’ve said before, the Shield could stand some improvement, but it’s not as horrible as people make it sound.

And I’ve been mostly vocal about people claiming that our Shield doesn’t block.

kousei.5914:

I’d rather switch to Hammer than a Focus set for defense. It offers a lot more control and

.

I am in no way making fun of what he wrote. But since the hammer can indeed spam protection I can see why alot of people would feel this way. Now think about that. If you had to go defensive, wouldn`t the first thing that comes to your mind be equipping a shield? Not a hammer, not a focus, but a shield!

What I wouldn`t have given to be able to have an active block like ddo and radierZ has.

Ynna.8769:

Tomas Valheru.3065:

I’d have to agree that shields not blocking doesn’t fit the use of the item. The reason shields exist anywhere in history is to block potential harm. Yes I know, shields can be used offensively to bash or push, but you get shot at, slashed at, stabbed at, and attacked far more often than strictly attacking with it.

I don’t understand. How is the Shield not blocking potential harm? The whole Protection-boon is build around preventing damage (33% of it) and Shield of Absorption is preventing in two ways: by blocking projectiles and knocking back enemies.
You know what you should complain about? The Mace being able to block.

As I said, I think both 5 skills should be swapped between shield and focus. It would make more sense that the Focus use a giant magical bubble to prevent damage and bursts out a heal than to have it generate magical shields around your body and block attacks. It would just make more sense. Focus for more magical based defenses (giant bubble of protection), and Shield for more practical based defenses (shields that appear around you as a sign that you will hard block attacks). I understand that guardian uses protection magic, but it makes more sense this way.

I never said anything negative about protection. I said that it would be better sharing the animation of the warriors Shield #4 skill but instead of stunning, it bursts or pulses giving people around you protection rather than in a cone in front of you. That way if you are in the front (which happens quite a lot) you can give protection to your allies without missing. If the animation is the problem, it can be tweaked to look unique but still provide the same mechanic.

Mace (or hammer) has been used as a symbol of protection and judgment in fantasy lore for a long time, it makes sense that they would use it in such a way in this game.

I could live with everything they have in the game at the moment, maybe lower the CD’s a little bit on shield, but these are my preferences and what, to me, makes sense. What I truly dislike about guardian, specifically male, (as well as any Male humanoid Greatsword wielder in this game) is the ridiculous autoattack animation for GS. Angle strikes across the body would fit so much nicer than circle swings on only 1 side of the body the whole time in an o’lay fashion. I feel like my character is permanently leaned to the left off balance when I’m fighting mobs to the point where I don’t ever want to autoattack with the weapon and just spam its abilities and switch sets. But, alas, this is thread is about shields.

Ynna.8769:

Knuckledust.5621:

Ynna do you even play Guardian or you simply like to be against common sense?

No, I enjoy wasting my time arguing with people about something I don’t play.
That was sarcasm.

Five seconds Protection, to a cone in front of you, on a 30 seconds CD and a 4 seconds bubble with ridiculous knockback on a 40 seconds CD. Do you think the shield is really viable? Common sense, please.

I mostly play sPvP (for some reason) and I would use the Shield even if it only had Shield of Absorption. Even without the heal. As I’ve said before, the Shield could stand some improvement, but it’s not as horrible as people make it sound.

And I’ve been mostly vocal about people claiming that our Shield doesn’t block.

It doesn’t hard block attacks, it absorbs projectiles. Absorb =/= block. “Block” does not appear when something hits through it, and when you are fighting veteran mobs or champions that won’t get pushed back, they will physically hit you at full damage with SoA. You won’t “block” the attack negating the damage.

Little point to nit-pick:

People keep saying “you can get permanent protection with Hammer”.
But that’s only if you’re ONLY using auto-attack and no other skills, never dodging, etc…
Right?
And it’s very hard to control where those gaps in protection will be. Whereas with Shield you can ALWAYS throw it up exactly when you want to negate big attacks.

It’s actually QUITE impractical to keep up “permanent protection” with Hammer.

I do agree though that right now it seems like the Focus is actually a more defensive option than the Shield, which doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The only thing I don’t like is that the Focus is better than the Shield for defense. Why the hell is the Shield in the “Toughness” trait line if that is how it works? It should be leaps and bounds ahead of the focus for mitigation, but it isn’t.

The only time I have used the shield in dungeons was for the Lovers fight in AC, the “5” skill is incredibly useful to break them apart. But then, I immediately change back to Sword or Mace and Focus for way more defensive options.

1) The ranged options for Guardian are pretty horrible, it would be nice if Focus would give you longer ranged options.

2) A shield should be way more defensive than a magical stick with a bell on it. Come on now.

3) The traits for defense support the Shield (Valor), which isn’t defensive, which makes zero sense. This is one reason so many people are talking about the trait lines for Guardian basically just being a hodge podge of stuff that doesn’t really make sense.

phor.7952:

Little point to nit-pick:

People keep saying “you can get permanent protection with Hammer”.
But that’s only if you’re ONLY using auto-attack and no other skills, never dodging, etc…
Right?
And it’s very hard to control where those gaps in protection will be. Whereas with Shield you can ALWAYS throw it up exactly when you want to negate big attacks.

It’s actually QUITE impractical to keep up “permanent protection” with Hammer.

I do agree though that right now it seems like the Focus is actually a more defensive option than the Shield, which doesn’t make a lot of sense.

You do have a point to an extent. Keeping protection up while fighting anything from tough vets to bosses could be impossible in alot of situations. But for the rest of the games mobs if you don`t focus all your stats into pure dps, you can stand there and straight tank anything else with prot up for a good bit of the time. Why they didn`t give it might proc so the followup mighty blow would be enhanced is a mystery.

Also keep in mind when you have a focus equipped you are losing 900 armor or so and 60+ defense. Those 3 blocks are only available every 40 seconds or so where with the shield you have the permanant armor and def that makes a huge difference in survivability. I still think the best idea would be to replace the shields prot buff with the block from the focus and just give the focus the abilty to summon a pack of feral cattle for 30 seconds since it looks like a cow bell.

Curious after reading most of the comments here. People are complaining about the cone direction of the #4 skill on the shield. Why are you standing in a line with everyone you’re fighting with? If the boss is attacking you, everyone else should be behind it so that they don’t get caught in AOE swings etc. Therefore you should almost always be facing your group, or at least the members that need the buff. Am I the only one doing this? I can’t be..

Banewrath.5107:

kousei.5914:

I’d rather switch to Hammer than a Focus set for defense. It offers a lot more control and

.

I am in no way making fun of what he wrote. But since the hammer can indeed spam protection I can see why alot of people would feel this way. Now think about that. If you had to go defensive, wouldn`t the first thing that comes to your mind be equipping a shield? Not a hammer, not a focus, but a shield!

What I wouldn`t have given to be able to have an active block like ddo and radierZ has.

First off, I never said I felt the Hammer had more defense than the Shield. I said I’d use Hammer before I’d switch to a Focus set. Shield is the number one defensive offhand. I explicitly stated that Focus was a lot less defensive than Focus. My comment about Hammer was meant purely to put into perspective how crazy it is to put Focus above Shield.

Mace/Focus is utterly useless compared to Mace/Shield. Whatever you can block with Focus #5 you can easily absorb with Shield’s #4 protection or simply dodge/strafe. Now bring SoA’s defensive and supportive utilities into the picture and it’s really common sense to use Shield over Focus not the other way around.

Defensively: Mace/Shield > Hammer > Any/Focus

Secondly, stop comparing GW2 with games that you could actually tank. If you’re arguing you want more block so you can tank, you’re doing it wrong. I’m actually starting to take Torch over Focus in PvE because let’s be honest, if you’re taking damage in PvE (ie: you need a block skill) you need to be dodging/strafing more.

Red, most of the group I run with are ranged, so the cone won’t hit them either way. Also, if I am protecting my group, I have to block the mob’s attacks from hitting my group. I can’t do that if they are on the other side of the mob from me.

kousei.5914:

Banewrath.5107:

kousei.5914:

I’d rather switch to Hammer than a Focus set for defense. It offers a lot more control and

.

I am in no way making fun of what he wrote. But since the hammer can indeed spam protection I can see why alot of people would feel this way. Now think about that. If you had to go defensive, wouldn`t the first thing that comes to your mind be equipping a shield? Not a hammer, not a focus, but a shield!

What I wouldn`t have given to be able to have an active block like ddo and radierZ has.

First off, I never said I felt the Hammer had more defense than the Shield. I said I’d use Hammer before I’d switch to a Focus set. Shield is the number one defensive offhand. I explicitly stated that Focus was a lot less defensive than Focus. My comment about Hammer was meant purely to put into perspective how crazy it is to put Focus above Shield.

Mace/Focus is utterly useless compared to Mace/Shield. Whatever you can block with Focus #5 you can easily absorb with Shield’s #4 protection or simply dodge/strafe. Now bring SoA’s defensive and supportive utilities into the picture and it’s really common sense to use Shield over Focus not the other way around.

Defensively: Mace/Shield > Hammer > Any/Focus

Secondly, stop comparing GW2 with games that you could actually tank. If you’re arguing you want more block so you can tank, you’re doing it wrong. I’m actually starting to take Torch over Focus in PvE because let’s be honest, if you’re taking damage in PvE (ie: you need a block skill) you need to be dodging/strafing more.

Apparently you misunderstood my comment and took offense to it instead. And no, protection won`t absorb what a focus block will. Protection reduces incoming damage by 1/3. the focus blocks 3 full attacks no matter what the damage by 100%. Wait till you do some of the crazy events in Orr. Or fight certain mobs that will chain 3-4 attacks that you can only dodge 2 of because your stamina is gone. Or my personal favorite event, Mr Chan and his outpost full of embers that spam aoe ground damage everywhere you step! The little outpost overun by tars is fun too cause they spam projectiles and aoe ground damage and root you. You will also be in for a big suprise when you do the last part of your personal story chain. I won`t spoil that though.

Banewrath.5107:

protection won`t absorb what a focus block will.

Well that would depend entirely on how many people benefit from the protection.

The focus block is only for you.

Red Vagabond.8613:

Curious after reading most of the comments here. People are complaining about the cone direction of the #4 skill on the shield. Why are you standing in a line with everyone you’re fighting with? If the boss is attacking you, everyone else should be behind it so that they don’t get caught in AOE swings etc. Therefore you should almost always be facing your group, or at least the members that need the buff. Am I the only one doing this? I can’t be..

You must be an oldschool eq player. There are very few bosses in the game you can straight tank. You run in do your damage and try to run back out before it queues up it`s next attack. And even before the next power attack it can let lose with a lesser attack that can hurt you pretty bad too if you aren`t careful. Or you just fight with ranged weapons, which makes it so much easier.

The point is, in alot of upper lvl content some events require people to be constantly moving in erratic directions. Nobody is always clumped together, they apread out. So the cone effect doesn`t always hit everyone you want it to. Making it an aoe buff would help it alot.

Shimond.2478:

Banewrath.5107:

protection won`t absorb what a focus block will.

Well that would depend entirely on how many people benefit from the protection.

The focus block is only for you.

Well I replied with that because he thinks that protection can absorb the same as a block. Two different things. You either get hit for less or you don`t get hit at all. The block would be more suited to the shield and given either the same cone effect or a true aoe effect for 3 blocks in the next 5 seconds. The shield can allready help defend against projectiles, knockback, and heal. Having a block buff using the same timer or one a little longer would make the shield feel more like a shield.

From what I understand, shield stance blocks 100% damage for a complete duration. Giving us a 3 blocker for the shield wouldn`t hurt them. I may be misinformed about shield stance though.

As I said, though, it is possible for protection to absorb as much (or even more) than the blocks. It really depends on how its used.

And that is why I prefer the shield over the focus. There’s no doubt FOR YOU the focus is superior in reducing incoming damage. The shield is the party tool. My guardian is durable enough as is.

It’s true that the Shield provides benefits in party use. At the same time, though, don’t discount Focus for party defense. It isn’t a cone-wide Protection, but Ray of Judgement removes conditions and applies blind with a maximum of four target-bounces. At 25 second recharge and 1,200 range, this is not half bad for party support.

Blinded enemies don’t hurt your party, and condition removal can save lives.

I’m not knocking Shield. I think it’s a solid off-hand weapon. But I understand the argument that, compared to Focus, Shield feels less impressive. Focus is useful in just about every situation; Shield requires good timing on Shield of Absorption to really hold its own. So Shield of Absorption just doesn’t see that much general use, in exchange for which, it can be a situational lifesaver.

Now I am sure that most people arguing here that the Shield is viable and a perfectly OK weapon do NOT play Guardian.

The guy said Focus is a much worse and utterly useless weapon compared to the Shield’s uber defense. Let’s do simple math over here:

With shield, you get a 5 seconds protection on a cone which may never hit the person you intend it to because of how mobile fights are – on a 30 seconds CD. Then you have a bubble which has a 75% of missing the knockback because most of end game mobs cannot be hit by knocks, and then it is useless. If it hits the knock, it is also useless because the mob will just walk in it and hit you in the face since you are planted on the ground. 4 seconds duration, 40 seconds CD, meaningless heal.

NOW, to the Focus: you have a AoE blind/regen which can hit up to 4 foes/friends. On a 25 seconds CD. Blind will make the enemy COMPLETELY miss his next attack, which could be a 4 seconds charged swing to your face. It also heals allies for a substantial amount. And the icing is that it also removes conditions. Right, then you got Shield of Wrath, whose cooldown of 45 seconds is justified by its effect: COMPLETELY NEGATES the next 3 attacks against you. If the shield isn’t destroyed, it does one of the most powerful AoE dmg of the game.

How. On. Earth. the shield has more defense than the focus? Please? Someone enlight me, I have played my Guardian only 254 hours. If the Shield is a better defensive weapon than the Focus then I must have overlooked something really big right.

I don’t see why people are taking this personally. The shield is a well known terrible offhand, just as the scepter is an awful ranged weapon. Why some people insists and denies it, going against common sense? Have you played Guardian long enough? Are you over level 40 yet?

I don’t mean to be rude, but some comments here are unreal.

Shimond.2478:

As I said, though, it is possible for protection to absorb as much (or even more) than the blocks. It really depends on how its used.

And that is why I prefer the shield over the focus. There’s no doubt FOR YOU the focus is superior in reducing incoming damage. The shield is the party tool. My guardian is durable enough as is.

I`m sorry. I am really confused by what you`re saying. But reducing damage by 100% has always been better then 33%. A block will completely negate the damage from an incoming hit. Protection just reduces it by 1/3. No matter how you use it one, one reduces damage and the other blocks damage alltogether. What I am trying to say is that that the protection buff for the shield should be tossed and the 3 block buff be given to the shield with aoe effect. Then your shield as actually a true functional shield.

I use a mace/shield 99% percent of the time I am online. The other 1% is when I need to kite then it`s scepter/focus or staff if I feel like doing support instead of damage.

Banewrath.5107:

I`m sorry. I am really confused by what you`re saying. But reducing damage by 100% has always been better then 33%. A block will completely negate the damage from an incoming hit. Protection just reduces it by 1/3. No matter how you use it one, one reduces damage and the other blocks damage alltogether. What I am trying to say is that that the protection buff for the shield should be tossed and the 3 block buff be given to the shield with aoe effect. Then your shield as actually a true functional shield.

I use a mace/shield 99% percent of the time I am online. The other 1% is when I need to kite then it`s scepter/focus or staff if I feel like doing support instead of damage.

If protection hits 3 people (which you can do) then technically 100% of the damage of one attack on AE attacks/conditions is absorbed each hit for the duration. That’s all I’m saying. Yes in a one on one situation you’re absolutely correct, again that’s not why I use the shield – it’s the party tool.

Banewrath.5107:

Shimond.2478:

As I said, though, it is possible for protection to absorb as much (or even more) than the blocks. It really depends on how its used.

And that is why I prefer the shield over the focus. There’s no doubt FOR YOU the focus is superior in reducing incoming damage. The shield is the party tool. My guardian is durable enough as is.

I`m sorry. I am really confused by what you`re saying. But reducing damage by 100% has always been better then 33%. A block will completely negate the damage from an incoming hit. Protection just reduces it by 1/3. No matter how you use it one, one reduces damage and the other blocks damage alltogether. What I am trying to say is that that the protection buff for the shield should be tossed and the 3 block buff be given to the shield with aoe effect. Then your shield as actually a true functional shield.

I use a mace/shield 99% percent of the time I am online. The other 1% is when I need to kite then it`s scepter/focus or staff if I feel like doing support instead of damage.

Because an enemy can hit you a lot, or multiple enemies can hit you a lot. I don’t remember how long the protection boon lasts, but if you get hit many times within a certain time frame, it’s more worth it than 3 blocks. Plus, you may block terrible damage hits if used incorrectly. If all damage was the same, you’d need to get hit ~9-10 times to equal the damage reduction between 3 blocks and the protection boon. Thus, it’s directly related to how many hits you take. Not only that, it grants protection to allies too…so that means as long as 10 hits are taken by anyone who is given the buff, it equals out.

I just wish they’d let me move while casting #5, and have it last a bit longer. Either that, or lower the CD a tad. Maybe make #4 20s and #5 30s.

Shimond.2478:

Banewrath.5107:

I`m sorry. I am really confused by what you`re saying. But reducing damage by 100% has always been better then 33%. A block will completely negate the damage from an incoming hit. Protection just reduces it by 1/3. No matter how you use it one, one reduces damage and the other blocks damage alltogether. What I am trying to say is that that the protection buff for the shield should be tossed and the 3 block buff be given to the shield with aoe effect. Then your shield as actually a true functional shield.

I use a mace/shield 99% percent of the time I am online. The other 1% is when I need to kite then it`s scepter/focus or staff if I feel like doing support instead of damage.

If protection hits 3 people (which you can do) then technically 100% of the damage of one attack on AE attacks/conditions is absorbed each hit for the duration. That’s all I’m saying. Yes in a one on one situation you’re absolutely correct, again that’s not why I use the shield – it’s the party tool.

The better argument in defense of Shield isn’t to look at total aggregate damage (partly because three people shaving 33% of incoming damage off attacks is not the same as eliminating one attack) but to look at duration. Blind is great for smaller enemies or single attacks. A well timed blind is wonderful mitigation. What Protection does is soften blows.

I hate using the term alpha strike, because it’s more common in City of Heroes, but the idea is that you want to be able to absorb the initial burst of incoming and frequent damage. So Shield #4 is potentially more mitigation in situations where you’re protecting the party from several attacks from several enemies.

Likewise, Shield #5 is potentially more mitigation if you get the most out of knockback + ranged absorb, which, naturally, requires being under assault by ranged enemies.

So the real comparison is not that Shield is more of a party weapon, or Focus is more of a party weapon. But Shield shines brighter in mass combat situations where several party members are at risk of damage from several sources.

Which is part of the problem. In the situations for which Shield seems designed (Toughness bonuses aside), the mitigation is pretty solid.

But those situations are, in general PVE, pretty uncommon. Meanwhile, Focus is useful pretty much everywhere. Shield isn’t bad; it’s situational. So it looks worse compared to Focus.

Protection from #4 lasts 5 seconds. That is barely 2 swings from the common attack animations.

I disagree on the Shield being situational, however. On any situation the Focus will outshine the Shield. If you have more mobs on you, Focus #5 completely decimates everything. SoA knockback IS NOT reliable for any kind of fight, and against ranged enemies you are much better off popping Reflection. 40 seconds CD, 10 seconds duration, REFLECTS ranged attacks.

Enough said.

Eveningstar.6940:

So the real comparison is not that Shield is more of a party weapon, or Focus is more of a party weapon. But Shield shines brighter in mass combat situations where several party members are at risk of damage from several sources.

As this is typically what happens in the parties I’m in, I don’t see the difference. To me, the shield is the clear winner. As I’ve said multiple times this thread and elsewhere, MY guardian is plenty tanky without requiring the focus for more personal defense (which it does better than the shield – I will not argue that point at all).

Can it be improved? Sure, anything can.

Is it catastrophically terrible and should it never be used ever as the OP of this thread and others in here claim? Absolutely not.

Knuckledust.5621:

How. On. Earth. the shield has more defense than the focus? Please? Someone enlight me, I have played my Guardian only 254 hours. If the Shield is a better defensive weapon than the Focus then I must have overlooked something really big right.
.

Well the shield is giving you over 900 more armor and 60 defense and it`s all passive. You don`t need to activate all that added armor and it`s not on a cooldown. If you really don`t spec your character to exclusivly use a shield it will be tough to see the benefit. I take way more damage using the scepter/focus setup in melee range then I do when I have m/s equipped. Been playing since headstart and been 80 for weeks tried every other weapon combination in the game but keep going back to the mace/shield everytime. I have tried multiple stat combinations and trait and skill combinations. For pure 24/7 mitigation the shield cannot be beat hands down. The focus is awsome so save your hide every 45 seconds and the blind is nice every 25 seconds. But inbetween those cooldowns you are missing the passive protection that a shield equipped gives unless you are swapping back and fourth between the 2 sets and weaving the skills together that is something you can do as well.

Focus #5 is limited to four bounces, including allies and enemies. So no, it won’t completely decimate everything. The regen is nice, but relatively minor. And without any conditions to remove, the Condition Removal is more or less wasted. Still, it is useful everywhere. It’s useful solo. It’s useful in small groups. It’s useful on bosses. The short cooldown even makes it useful purely as condition removal when you need it (especially in conjunction with a weapon swap to Torch, or, say, Purging Flames)

The Shield is situational. Hyperbole about the Shield being totally outclassed in every situation isn’t really useful, although admittedly there’s a seed of truth in what you’re saying. The problem is that Shield’s general utility falls behind Focus’s general utility, and the situations in which Shield really shines are relatively rare.

I agree that Shield could use some work. A limited duration Aegis effect on #4 might not be a bad idea, coupled with a 5 second recharge reduction. I’ve been advocating a flat recharge reduction on Shield of Absorption for a while now. The recharge is prohibitively long and keeps you from using it in general use, and you end up saving it not for one or two random ranged attacks, but for big ranged barrages—which almost never happen. So SoA gets relegated to a clunky knockback and a decent heal component, ignoring its primary use.

The big reason Shield seems weak is because we do have access to Focus. Focus’s universal appeal relegates Shield tactics to specific and relatively rare situations, while general use of Shield of Judgement doesn’t provide as much benefit as general use of Focus.

The other issue we all seem to be forgetting: You can have Shield and Focus as weapon swaps, providing use of both skill sets. Granted, this limits you to having two one-handed weapons to swap, but it does effectively double your off-hand support and keep you busier between cooldowns.