Guild Wars 2

Knuckledust.5621:

Protection from #4 lasts 5 seconds. That is barely 2 swings from the common attack animations.

It’s interesting you complain about the duration of protection when the duration of Shield of Wrath is actually one second shorter. So exactly how often are you getting those three blocks, anyway?

Shimond.2478:

Knuckledust.5621:

Protection from #4 lasts 5 seconds. That is barely 2 swings from the common attack animations.

It’s interesting you complain about the duration of protection when the duration of Shield of Wrath is actually one second shorter. So exactly how often are you getting those three blocks, anyway?

What would you prefer? Taking 33% less damage from two 500 dmg hits or taking 100% less damage from a 5k hit?

I am complaining that the option which makes me survive is a wood stick instead of a big shield.

Knuckledust.5621:

What would you prefer? Taking 33% less damage from two 500 dmg hits or taking 100% less damage from a 5k hit?

I am complaining that the option which makes me survive is a wood stick instead of a big shield.

I’d prefer my party taking 33% less damage for the duration, actually. I’m pretty freaking tough. /flex

Shimond.2478:

Knuckledust.5621:

What would you prefer? Taking 33% less damage from two 500 dmg hits or taking 100% less damage from a 5k hit?

I am complaining that the option which makes me survive is a wood stick instead of a big shield.

I’d prefer my party taking 33% less damage for the duration, actually. I’m pretty freaking tough. /flex

Except that the cone isn’t reliable since some NPC can steal one of the 5 protections, or you can die while trying to position yourself by taking the 5k hit to the face. And then even if you succeed on applying the Protection to your entire party, someone will still receive a 3.5k hit to the face.

I am sorry but you are trying so hard to prove the Shield is useful that you are ignoring simple common sense.

Before I even played Guardian I fell in love with the style of its shield abilities, but after using it, meh. For my dungeon spec I run Hammer and Mace/Focus, though I would love to switch the focus with a shield.

Personally, I think I would prefer the shield if:

1. I like that it grants protection, but I think that adding a daze or short duration aegis would fit the style more. I don’t like that is doesn’t really have an ability that I can time to time to prevent a big hit.

1. It’s kinda unimpressive for a skill with such a long CD and dramatic animation. I would love if it was switched with Scepter #5, especially cuz it would give me a blast finisher.

Shimond.2478:

Banewrath.5107:

I`m sorry. I am really confused by what you`re saying. But reducing damage by 100% has always been better then 33%. A block will completely negate the damage from an incoming hit. Protection just reduces it by 1/3. No matter how you use it one, one reduces damage and the other blocks damage alltogether. What I am trying to say is that that the protection buff for the shield should be tossed and the 3 block buff be given to the shield with aoe effect. Then your shield as actually a true functional shield.

I use a mace/shield 99% percent of the time I am online. The other 1% is when I need to kite then it`s scepter/focus or staff if I feel like doing support instead of damage.

If protection hits 3 people (which you can do) then technically 100% of the damage of one attack on AE attacks/conditions is absorbed each hit for the duration. That’s all I’m saying. Yes in a one on one situation you’re absolutely correct, again that’s not why I use the shield – it’s the party tool.

You have me so confused as to what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that if my protection hits 3 people that it will completely absorb the damage of one attack?

If that is what you are saying you are incorrect. You do not get multiple stacks of extra -33% just for hitting other players with it. When you cast the buff, whoever it hits gets the flat 33% damage reduction for 5 seconds. An aoe that lasts 5 seconds or 3 full blocks would probably do alot better job. Because for one that is 3 attacks right off the bat you don`t have to worry about the damage from. With a reduction buff you are still taking damage but just 1/3 less then max.

Banewrath.5107:

Apparently you misunderstood my comment and took offense to it instead. And no, protection won`t absorb what a focus block will. Protection reduces incoming damage by 1/3. the focus blocks 3 full attacks no matter what the damage by 100%. Wait till you do some of the crazy events in Orr. Or fight certain mobs that will chain 3-4 attacks that you can only dodge 2 of because your stamina is gone. Or my personal favorite event, Mr Chan and his outpost full of embers that spam aoe ground damage everywhere you step! The little outpost overun by tars is fun too cause they spam projectiles and aoe ground damage and root you. You will also be in for a big suprise when you do the last part of your personal story chain. I won`t spoil that though.

I’m a level 80 Guardian and I’ve played all of the events and dungeons. Wall of Reflection and SoA stop the projectiles. Strafing and dodging does the rest. I played through all of Orr with Hammer and Mace/Shield on swaps. In the dungeons, I run Mace/Shield and Scepter/Focus for the first run through then adjust sets as needed in later runs once I know the areas.

As for you “chaining attack” enemies, the ones that give issues are the ones with knockdown, knock-back, etc. Use your stability utility skills for these. Stand Your Ground is amazing for these.

At this point, I wish we had the ability to link to our characters on a website like ANET said we would have…

kousei.5914:

Banewrath.5107:

Apparently you misunderstood my comment and took offense to it instead. And no, protection won`t absorb what a focus block will. Protection reduces incoming damage by 1/3. the focus blocks 3 full attacks no matter what the damage by 100%. Wait till you do some of the crazy events in Orr. Or fight certain mobs that will chain 3-4 attacks that you can only dodge 2 of because your stamina is gone. Or my personal favorite event, Mr Chan and his outpost full of embers that spam aoe ground damage everywhere you step! The little outpost overun by tars is fun too cause they spam projectiles and aoe ground damage and root you. You will also be in for a big suprise when you do the last part of your personal story chain. I won`t spoil that though.

I’m a level 80 Guardian and I’ve played all of the events and dungeons. Wall of Reflection and SoA stop the projectiles. Strafing and dodging does the rest. I played through all of Orr with Hammer and Mace/Shield on swaps. In the dungeons, I run Mace/Shield and Scepter/Focus for the first run through then adjust sets as needed in later runs once I know the areas.

As for you “chaining attack” enemies, the ones that give issues are the ones with knockdown, knock-back, etc. Use your stability utility skills for these. Stand Your Ground is amazing for these.

At this point, I wish we had the ability to link to our characters on a website like ANET said we would have…

I myself don`t have a problem with knockbacks or anything I would need Stand Your Ground for really. Might be some dungeons that would benefit from it but I have no reason to do them at this point. Wall of relection is nice but since its on a fairly long cooldown and the mobs can pass through it to continue the projectile attacks I don`t slot it. And since they normally choose to use the projectiles at shorter intervals the projectile negaters are like a one shot deal and you have to dodge the rest. And if it launches more then 2 attacks and you dodge those third will 9 times out of 10 hit you.
But I solo alot and like to try and kill vets and champs by myself. If you have some people with you or a group you have a little more space because you aren`t the only one the mobs will be focusing on.

Strafing for me works sometimes. But for the most part even sidestepping or strafing don`t always avoid the projectiles. They lock on and home in on you. Perfect example of that is trying to solo a giant in cursed shore. All the grubs he throws down chain spam projectiles that every once in awhile you can sidestep. But for the most part they will home in on you and you`ll take the damage and dot no matter what you do. You can only dodge twice and that only helps so much when you have a dozen mobs chain spamming you.

They buffed the Honorable Shield trait the other day.

It gives both +90 Toughness and 20% off shield cooldowns now.

Shield is great to use. I use Hold the Line + Shield of Judgement and its 11s of 33% damage reduction every 30s or so. Shield of Absorption is more situational, but in PvP I use it to knock people off ledges/cap points or to knock people away so I can rez friendlies.

PvE its very good for interrupting mobs or for spreading out packs of really hard hititng mobs.

ComeAndSee.1356:

They buffed the Honorable Shield trait the other day.

It gives both +90 Toughness and 20% off shield cooldowns now.

Yeah, 50 more armor and a wasted master slot really made the Shield shine! Im so grateful for this buff.

I ran most of beta with Mace/Focus,it was just the tankiest,most defensive option I could find. But in release I just don’t want to run around with a stick or whatever in my offhand,doesn’t look tanky to me at all. So I ended up using Hammer mostly. I swap my second set between staff and scepter/shield,since you’d actually be in position to use that Shield #4 to buff others while using scepter,and I can look at shields a little that way.

Shield just does not compare to Focus at all,people have said most of it,but what I haven’t read is anyone saying that Focus #5 also is instant and usable while doing your auto-attack or whatever for insta-blocking. Mace’s third attack is slow and gives you healing,stopping that to throw another skill would lose your chain and heal.

Wall of Reflection is also much better than SoA,not only because it lasts longer,not only because it reflects instead of absorbing,but it’s NOT a channel. You can throw this up in front of mobs and attack them through it for a good amount of time. I’ve used it to save downed players from death and revived them while the enemy starts killing themselves. The only way you can revive with SoA is with a trait,and you still wouldn’t need the skill slotted for it.

SoA will likely not change,because I’ve heard and understand the extreme use of it in PvP,but I will always wish they would swap it with Focus’s much more defensive shield.

Good to see most of players also think the shield is a flawed weapon whose job is much better accomplished by the Focus.

I hope ANet looks into it on the future. I am not even playing the game anymore since there is nothing else to do tho.. so I at least have no rush, hope they can ast least notice the problem.

Sorry, Ill take three free block and blind plus condition remove and small heal from focus any day above a shield.

It requires some sort of block skill.

Hey OP.
I use a shield too, if you’re on Sorrows Furnace, you are not alone, I am here with you!

I use the shield soley for the knockback and 90 bonus toughness (its kinda worth it in lvl 20 zones). I dont really need other skills other than 1 2 & 3.

However I agree, the shield sucks and all other offhands are theorectically better.

You use the shield for extra 45-50 armor which translates to nothing, and a situational knockback that msot of the times doesn’t even happen?

Way to go!

I don’t get the need for a fixed number in any trait, since they should get better with you leveling up, not worse. Also they should reward you for building your character to support them.
So take the 90 toughness in the shield trait and make it grant a toughness increase based on a percentage of your total toughness. Of course the percentage has to be calculated and the lowest/highest theoretical benefit taken into account to keep it in line.
That way it would benefit you more the tankier your playstyle is in general.

Not only are you unable to block with the shield, but the cone on the #4 buff generally requires you to be behind your allies instead of on the front line. The abilities on shield just don’t thematically fit “shield” at all, IMO. I’d love to see shield and focus abilities swapped. Using a cowbell to block and blind is really lame, and so is using a shield to stand in the back and channel.

I believe shields are meant to be purely a cosmetic weapon and not actually intended for combat.

I use shield. Shield and sword. I always go for style, and there’s no problems when I can kill folks with them. I think people just like going for the best stats, not for their favors.

Agent.1397:

I use shield. Shield and sword. I always go for style, and there’s no problems when I can kill folks with them. I think people just like going for the best stats, not for their favors.

Is it that unreasonable that people’s favorite look should also be somewhat effective/viable. If I were to play Warrior, I’ll use Axe+Sword because I like that idea (based on a character from a book), but I’d also like that build to not suck.

I’m bummed by shields too. You guys realize warriors get a skill on their shield that lets them block, right? We have to use a mace to do that. And I think warriors get the same thing in a different form….

The only thing I could suggest is to increase the defense shields offer, by making them offer MUCH more than our armor. Or even give them a fixed block rate. That might be considered overpowered (i.e. someone could go 100% block and burn enemies 100% of the time each block) but I’m hoping Arenanet will balance it to work. I’ll also guess that they won’t do that because retooling a weapon and its skills/usage will flip the metagame/balance on its back and smash it over the face with a dead cow’s leg. But hey, I also wish NPCs weren’t so weak, so I’ll chock it up with wishful fantasy.

I totally agree with the fact that shields aren’t worth anything. The only truly defensive skill it offers is it’s 5, which allows you to push back and interrupt foes. The problem is it keeps you down for a moment AND THE BUBBLE CAN BE WALKED THROUGH. Half the times it bugs and you can’t break the bubble, too. I use scepter/shield as I need a ranged weapon and I simply can’t bear the idea of using a cowbell. I started as a sword & board user, but it showed up to be so useless that I gave up.

I really wish they buff the shield and maybe the sword as well.

A sidenote on guardians, It’s quite bumming me out that they do almost everything we do but in better ways. Not even talking of their damage, too.

This might sound kind of odd, but I’ve put off playing a Guardian solely because I feel like the shield just doesn’t make sense. Not just because of the stats, but because it’s a shield that doesn’t feel like a shield. I’m the kind of guy who’ll play what they want thematically and stick to it, whether or not it’s actually optimal from a min-max perspective. I rolled a Rifle/Longbow Warrior all the way to 80 and am still wearing level 50 armor in 80 zones + dungeons (it’ll get transmuted eventually!) after scrapping my Ranger because I absolutely hated the pewpewpew rapid fire of the Shortbow (both the sound and what I feel like is a totally unnatural and odd rate of fire).

When I tried rolling a Guardian a few days after hitting 80 on my Warrior, I planned from the start to go GS and Sword/Shield, because again, that’s just sort of the setup I like. May not be optimal, but that’s not really what I care about. After a few levels, though, I just simply put the character aside. The shield made absolutely no sense thematically, and it just bugged the crap out of me. With the shield, I could either:

A) Fire a wave of magical energy in front of me, or
B) Create a big magical bubble around me that defended against ranged attacks

Both of these things are something I’d expect from something like the focus, but not from a shield. Shoot out/throw a magical wave of protective energy? Definitely sounds like something right up the focus’s alley. Heck, it already shoots out a beam of light via its #4. And it makes far more sense to me that you’d use some kind of mystical trinket in order to create a gigantic protective magic field that is only good against ranged attacks (discounting the knock back here, as you can simply run inside afterwards, it’s not like it bars entry) rather than a straightforward rustic shield. I mean, if you were on some kind of fantasy magic battlefield and there was a hail of arrows and magical projectiles flying towards your army, and you needed someone to mass defend an area against that barrage solo, would you look to the dude with the big shield that he can probably fit maybe himself behind, or the guy with the weirdly powerful magic wand that does weird magical things?

Probably neither because they both sound shady, so I didn’t prove anything there, most likely. Personally, I’d just try to stack people on top of me and go into fetal position.

And on the other hand, the Focus gets a skill that… summons SHIELDS around you. Literally. Which actually directly block attacks. Sort of like you’d expect a shield to do, except our actual shield doesn’t, for some odd reason. We’re apparently so busy using our shields to create magical bubbles and fire blasts of mystical energy that we need to use our magical trinkets to create shields that actually do what shields do because our regular shields can’t competently do what shields shields do shields.

I mean, I don’t know about you, but that just makes so little sense to me that it throws me off. Not only that, but when you get even more into the theme it starts to make even less sense. I understand that the Guardian is a magical knight kind of character and all and so it does make some sense for him to be doing crazy magical things with his shield, but when you think about it in terms of group vs. solo benefits, shouldn’t the focus probably be the more group oriented item? I mean, I can either hold up this big gigantic cumbersome shield which will probably do a really awesome job of helping me defend myself (or so I’d imagine), but if I want to help out and support those guys over there on the other side of the enemy I’m tanking, I’m probably going to rely on my mystical trinket of +8 defense or whatever because it makes no sense for me to run over to my teammates and plop my shield in the middle of them. Especially if you were holding aggro, because then you’re just telling the enemy to come right up to your teammates. For the guy who mentioned that you should be on the other side of the boss from your teammates so that you can pop your #4 and buff them through the enemy without turning, doesn’t that kind of defeat the purpose of #5 for your team? You’re now positioned on the wrong side to protect your teammates, and if the boss has a relatively quickly cast ranged attack then you probably can’t get to the other side and pop it to act as a wall. If the boss is one of those immune to knock backs, then you literally have a skill you’re doing nothing with. Not to mention the actual range issue itself.

I’ve personally not met everyone of my class in my server I feel sad now.

on a side note, Shield does need improvement. Doesn’t make me feel any more defensive than wielding my 2 handed hammer

Honestly, the Engineer’s shield skills are pretty much exactly what I expected for a Guardian.

Projectile reflection that can knock enemies back?

A two ability in one move that’s either a block that stuns the person hitting you or a Captain America shield throw?

Naturally I was pretty disappointed when I saw what the Guardian actually gets for their shield moves, which are sadly not only not very strong, but conceptually low impact too (hell, 5 is basically a worse version of the Engi’s shield 4 but with a bigger AoE)

I use other utility skills for protection and absorption while waiting
the shield skill CD.
It is still viable in many dungeons.

My opinion for improving the shield without completely changing the abilities(A-Net is busy after all) would be to add a percentage chance to block on shields. Nothing huge just 10-15% chance would be reasonable on the higher level stuff. It would still take some work but it seems reasonable and appropriate for what a shield is meant to do in the first place, which is block.

This is probably never going to be implemented, but what if wielding a Shield let you block manually, similar to Dodging, and would cost you endurance? Instead of Evading, you Block.

That would be interesting as we could then play as an actual heavily armored class that doesn’t just roll around madly. Issue is that with dodging you can escape multiple attacks at a time while blocking may or may not depending on how it would be implemented. If it acts more like a channel that costs endurance over time then it would be effective.

in my builds its not shield vs focus witch to drop its spec/shield and s/T or F witch to drop, in 5s the shield KB is amazing

There are improvements for shield that I would like to see but frankly, if you are of the position that there is no reason to use shield over any other offhand because the other offhands do everything shield does and better, you simply aren’t using your toolset to the fullest capability (or being entirely honest either). There is a reason for the ability to swap weaponsets in combat. You should learn to use them and make builds considering this ability. The premise is that focus is better than shield individually. That’s a overly simplistic way to examine the usefulness of the various weapon choices. For instance, Focus doesn’t set up combo fields, the shield can. That’s a worthy consideration. None of these weapon choices can be considered in isolation because that’s not how they are used.

in wvw I use the shield to knock back stragglers into my team mates or slow down the enemy from entering their forts. Other than that it’s pretty weak right now. #5 shouldn’t lock you down inside the bubble.

Protection giving -33% damage 5s 30second cd VS block 3 attacks 4 seconds 45second cd.

If you could ensure the boss is on you non stop hitting for 1k a hit once per second for 30 seconds straight the focus only negates 3k damage while protection prevents (5000 × .33 = 1650) 1650 damage. Blocking also removes any side effects of the hit.

For on demand damage mitigation the shield can’t do the same as the focus. The cooldowns are too long to be effective. The percent mitigation at only 33%, and the fact that it may or may not even hit your target makes it inferior. In order for protection to equal the blocking you need to be hit roughly twice per second over 4 seconds. That isn’t hard at all in say sPvP, but in more predictable PvE that isn’t likely to happen.

.33 x X1000 = X1000-(1000×3)

Obtena.7952:

There are improvements for shield that I would like to see but frankly, if you are of the position that there is no reason to use shield over any other offhand because the other offhands do everything shield does and better, you simply aren’t using your toolset to the fullest capability (or being entirely honest either). There is a reason for the ability to swap weaponsets in combat. You should learn to use them and make builds considering this ability. The premise is that focus is better than shield individually. That’s a overly simplistic way to examine the usefulness of the various weapon choices. For instance, Focus doesn’t set up combo fields, the shield can. That’s a worthy consideration. None of these weapon choices can be considered in isolation because that’s not how they are used.

Then again you aren’t considering that a focus provides the following benefits

regeneration
blind (depending on enemy AS has great damage mitigation potential than protection)
condition removal
3 blocks (greater damage mitigation than protection over those short periods where you are the focus)

vs
projectile absorption (THIS IS NOT BLOCK and will NOT trigger Defender’s Flame)
aoe knockback
protection in a cone

Thanks GSS. Apparently people that think the Shield is any useful simply do not play with it, or play ONLY with it. Focus currently is better on the survival, defense and utility departments. Shield knockback doesn’t work half the fights, the heal is terrible and doesn’t scale well with HP and the protection in a cone is the most counter intuitive skill mechanic I have ever seen.

I also dislike the Guardian shield, for all reasons mentioned above regarding the mechanics and themes, PLUS:

It looks so weird on my character’s back. The designers put the shield so high up on the body, it’s disproportional. Some shields cover my norn’s head totally. My character looks like a moving lollipop!!! Seriously, nobody else noticed how ugly this looks?

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Protection giving -33% damage 5s 30second cd VS block 3 attacks 4 seconds 45second cd.

If you could ensure the boss is on you non stop hitting for 1k a hit once per second for 30 seconds straight the focus only negates 3k damage while protection prevents (5000 × .33 = 1650) 1650 damage. Blocking also removes any side effects of the hit.

For on demand damage mitigation the shield can’t do the same as the focus. The cooldowns are too long to be effective. The percent mitigation at only 33%, and the fact that it may or may not even hit your target makes it inferior. In order for protection to equal the blocking you need to be hit roughly twice per second over 4 seconds. That isn’t hard at all in say sPvP, but in more predictable PvE that isn’t likely to happen.

.33 x X1000 = X1000-(1000×3)

Great post but you completely missed the point of the Guardian Why are you trying to tank on a Guardian? Why are you trying to tank at all in GW2 but even if you were why a Guardian? If you were going to build a tank, a Warrior is built far better than a Guardian for tanking and will easily outlive a Guardian if setup correctly.

Stop trying to play this game like WoW and all it’s clones and you’ll see why Shield is so much more useful than Focus. In fact, you’ll see why Focus is all but useless outside of sPvP/WvW.

On the trait should gain 50% toughness when using shield instead of flat 50. Shield of Absorption already has less CD from trait and it can block a freaking trebuchet.

for what shields offer the cooldowns are waaaay to high. Even when you get the shield cd reduction you will find that your shield arm is simply dead weight most of the time. If he cooldowns were lower we could have a much larger role in wvw in the sense that we could protect allies from attackers on the walls and be much more helpful overall. As it is now we may as well just all grab greatswords because that 6 seconds of being helpful isn’t worth the 40 seconds you aren’t.

Shield is not to bad, could use a few tweaks. On the bust from skill 5, rather than just healing it should also Burn enemy’s. and reduce skill 4 cool down by another few seconds and it would be a rather strong offhand.

I play primarily in TPvP and the shield is very strong in this aspect of the game and a large portion of point defense guardians use the shield.

Knuckledust.5621:

I am not asking for a buff here, I am asking for a fix. The shield is not remotely close to viable on daily situations such as dungeons and Orr.

That’s my main problem with the shield at the moment. when it comes to general pve its skills don’t provide anything significant to a fight.

Focus grants:

• limited aoe regen
• limited aoe blind
• group condition removal
• up to three blocked attacks
• a blast finisher
• might on block with trait
• burn on block with trait
• multi-hit damage, procing vigor and might multiple times with traits
• a heal (when you give allies regen) with trait
• vulnerability with trait

Torch grants:

• group condition removal
• heavy aoe multi-hit damage, procing vigor and might multiple times with traits
• removes boons with trait
• increased damage against burning foes with trait

Shield grants:

• up to five people with protection
• aoe knockback
• aoe heal
• a light combo field
• light aoe damage, which can only proc vigor multiple times and only if there is more than one mob with trait
• 90 toughness with trait
• a heal (when you provide protection to allies) with trait

As you can see, the focus and the torch have general group and solo pve use and a lot of synergy with certain traits. With the shield however, its general group and solo pve use is very situational (why use the shield for the protection buff to reduce aoe damage when you can use the focus to nullify aoe damage) or useless (why would you want to knock enemies back while solo and certain enemies are immune to knockbacks) in a lot of scenarios on top of its unique trait being boring. It becomes even worse when you notice the cooldowns between these weapon choices.

• Focus: 25 and 45 / 20 and 36 with trait

• Torch:15 and 15 / 12 and 12 with trait

• Shield 30 and 45 / 24 and 36 with trait

The focus and the torch offer at least something noticeable on relatively short cooldowns. The shield offers a short and moderate cooldown for abilities that just don’t get that much use.

One thing that would need to be done to the shield would be to give it a block. Our valor trait line focuses on blocking and shields yet we don’t actually get a block even though everyone else with a shield gets a block (seriously, even elementalists get a form of block in the form of Fortify on their shield). When it comes to the theme of the shield, you almost always think of someone who blocks or attacks with a shield and would therefore choose it to feel like a heavily defensive person. And with that line of thought, I don’t care if it’s a one second block or aegis, albeit an aegis would have more synergy with our traits, we just need some form of block on the shield.

All in all, while I understand that A-net was trying to go for a group based shield, the torch and focus also have group based elements that are, arguably, more interesting, have a broader use in every area of the game, and fit thematically.

WTB this trait: “Unyielding Defense: Your Shield skills now put Aegis on you”.

The 4 skill needs to be a shorter cooldown and be automatically applied to all those around you.

The 5 skill should heal you for some of what it absorbs with a trait.

The item itself should have more armor.

A simple suggestion would be to keep the skills as they are now, but simply add a “this also blocks the next attack on you on activation” So using either skill not onl;y does what it does now, but it also does a block (not an Aegis – just a plain old block).