Guild Wars 2

but… why are mid bunker guards so popular?

yeah but I am just genuinely curious about why I see so many mid bunker guards and almost never see teams sending a tank warrior to do the job

After committing to fully playing a warrior in SPVP for a bit, I agree with the OP’s post.

There’s build I’m running right now that does let me become really tanky and hard to kill but the build is really niche and only works in Spvp since holding a spot is what it’s about. Conditions removals are ok but to many conditions around to even keep up cleansing. In order to survive you really need to be active and do some well timed dodges. Our damage is mostly Direct, Burning, and Retalation is the way our damage is split up. I do agree to that buffs would be nice, or at least a nerf to condition re-application so we just don’t fall down and die after getting bombed like 3 times in a row.

Relentliss.2170:

After committing to fully playing a warrior in SPVP for a bit, I agree with the OP’s post.

Pretty much the same here. If im not on warrior ENJOYING spvp im on guardian TRYING to figure out whats wrong and how to patch it up -.-
The fixing effort itself = guardian gameplay at the moment since so many outbunker, outsustain (things we were good at) us its not funny any more. Guardian in my humble opinion has lost its focus and ALL we got left is aoe stability really and eating up other ppls conditions. Beeing nurses pretty much. I accepted the deal with no escape mechanics long time ago (hold W key and keep on truckin), but with every patch the things that felt guardian like or thakittens us that need them they were brought on to other classes in some way or the other so that special feeling just faded more and more.

If the argument is that warrior lacks protection well on warrior protection can be obtained from runes + boon duration. Its semi efficient but with warriors sustain + high hp from the get go random protection is just icing on the cake.
I like to run 30 in tactics and healing banner and then either:
rune of grove+rune of earth so i get 70% protection duration boost and 25% chance for a 7 second protection on a 30 sec cd (might as well be 100% chance with all the aoe spam)
or rune of lyssa for a 6 sec all boons on a 60 sec cd.

You feel bad for a class that is basically never nerfed?

And yet I bet you don’t give a kitten about how rangers, eles and mesmers were nerfed in to the ground, do you?

Wukunlin.8461:

but… why are mid bunker guards so popular?

Becouse player play in huge swarm that only need to spam 1 and think they build can work.

There are no tankers, only DPS.

I played mostly a guardian with 3.8k armor and 25k health while on zerg, and sometimes was impossible to evede or block hits that would crit like 20k of my health, when i tryed those builds on other classes i could insta down most guardians that had health lower than 16k-17k just needed to avoid wall of reflection, there are so many ways to counter Guardian classes that at the end only makes sense to play it with a damage carrier role wit 2h weapons.

colesy.8490:

You feel bad for a class that is basically never nerfed?

And yet I bet you don’t give a kitten about how rangers, eles and mesmers were nerfed in to the ground, do you?

We’ve never been nerfed because we are the most balanced class out there however in the current climate our ‘balance’ has changed into ‘immobile punching bag’ and all classes can do what we do just better so we are a pointless class now. They have indirectly nerfed us to put it simply.

I respect all those classes you’ve named have had a hard time but this isn’t about them this is about how the Guardian has been screwed this time around so if you want to talk about rangers, eles and mesmers go to their respective class forum.

Wukunlin.8461:

but… why are mid bunker guards so popular?

Bunker works in tpvp not hotjoins. Bunker requires competent team mates and communication, which is severely lacking in spvp. People just zerg points, they’ll leave you a point, and an eight man zerg will come kill you in five seconds.

I completely agree with the op. What he says is so dam obvious, I don’t why anet haven’t done anything to tweak the guardian. And this is why i’m currently enjoying my Bunker warrior cause he’s a superior tank. I’m not saying my warrior bunker is OP it can be easily taken down by few good players, but the general warrior bunker builds especially in wvw are EZ mode. As some others mention most other classes are alot stronger atm i.e thieves and necros, rangers and engis, these are really tough for my guardian bunkers to handle (especially their non stop applicable conditions) where as my warrior can fairly handle them.

Guardians virtue systems sucks imo.
Condition management is poor. (not asking for mad buff just a fair tweak)

If you don’t believe me roll a warrior and make bunker warrior. And you’ll also find they can better handle op necros, burst thieves, troll regen spirit rangers and op perplex cond engis.

Talking specifically in terms of tpvp:
Nothing even comes remotely close to a Guardian Bunker and the role they play in pvp. It’s not just about holding the point, you have to support your team through condition removal, control and boons while securing stomps and resing allies. No other class has anything remotely as strong as a Guardian does in this regard.

You have to take the entire match into account not just well 3 guys jumped on me and I died and I wouldn’t have died if I was a spirit ranger so spirit rangers are better, or anything to that logic.

On top of all this Guardians are more effective bunkers than warriors anyway, you are not using your dodges/blocks/elite correctly if you think otherwise. The only difference is the perception due to Guardians sacrificing damage for support (which is the only way they can bunker) while other classes don’t have the support and will usually have some damage instead.

This is a team game.

Guardians need a passive movement speed by traits and a lot more soft CC (cripple). And a real range weapon also.

Is a failed melee class because have nothing to keep enemies on melee, enemies who are losing just ignore you and run away. Is only a support buffer or aoe condition remover right now or a holder position in at structured mechanic.

colesy.8490:

You feel bad for a class that is basically never nerfed?

And yet I bet you don’t give a kitten about how rangers, eles and mesmers were nerfed in to the ground, do you?

Guess u never played the beta. Guards got nerfed hard through the betas and haven’t been changed since. They were nerfed for the specific reason of ‘they heal or have too much passive healing with way too much damage’…which is exactly what a warrior is currently. GeeGee

I sadly agree with the OP, i’m myself a guardian charr and i found my hp pool to be really pitiful i mean wtf 10k for an heavy armor going in front line really ANet? Last time i was doing a dungeon, a warrior showed his stats and when i saw 20k hp, 2,7k armor and better power, precision, my mind said ’’You’re useless in frontlines, go back to the medical assistance’’. Really, even in lfg more and more people are asking for zerks to rush dungeons but guardian even with zerk stuff and traits don’t have enough health, DPS and same armor than a warrior running in Knight set with sentinel jewels, as for PVP i’m forced to play with spirits weapon and sanctuary with scepter/shield because i get destroyed by necros or thieves if i go melee or they simply use stealth to flee to either run away or OS me because of my 12k hp, this is almost as ironic as zerk rangers using GS or thieves with knight gear that can tank better…

Beta back when u could target teleport that was fun… Guardian feels kinda stiff now with no real good escapes seems like every other class has something to run or chase =(

Apart from Judge’s intervention on a monster if your lucky to have some around we are doomed when trying to escape.

Bring back the two target teleports 1handed sword and Merciful Intervention that would be awesome!

Agree on a lot of the open poster’s views ANet to save us maybe?

Guardian is the backbone of teamplay in every mode
-_-
-PvE, unless they’re going full glass cannon zerker all the things, every team wants at least one Guardian.
-WvW, the best zerg class by far, more guardians in a zerg, the better the zerg.
-TPvP, still considered a must on any serious team.
Rarely nerfed on top of that.
Seeing guardians complain like Rangers, is like seeing those kids that complain they got a PS3 for christmas and didn’t get a sports car.

Where is all this guardian whining coming from all the sudden? Is it warrior envy or something?

Jericho.4521:

Where is all this guardian whining coming from all the sudden? Is it warrior envy or something?

Ive always had a few things I would like to see changed on guardian, but there is some really random QQ coming from this thread for some reason. Guardians are still in a pretty decent spot, I think the issue is that we don’t really fit into the current condition bunker meta too well. But honestly, I cant see this trend lasting too much longer, necros got toned down, spirit rangers got hit this last patch. The only thing making warriors OP is their passive signet, which I wouldn’t be suprised if it got toned down too.

I think people really need to calm down and realize we are at a good fairly balanced (but still needing some slight fixes cough cough zeal) spot, and that some of the condition builds need to be toned down some.

Bash.7291:

Jericho.4521:

Where is all this guardian whining coming from all the sudden? Is it warrior envy or something?

Ive always had a few things I would like to see changed on guardian, but there is some really random QQ coming from this thread for some reason. Guardians are still in a pretty decent spot, I think the issue is that we don’t really fit into the current condition bunker meta too well. But honestly, I cant see this trend lasting too much longer, necros got toned down, spirit rangers got hit this last patch. The only thing making warriors OP is their passive signet, which I wouldn’t be suprised if it got toned down too.

I think people really need to calm down and realize we are at a good fairly balanced (but still needing some slight fixes cough cough zeal) spot, and that some of the condition builds need to be toned down some.

Agreed. In 2 weeks we’ll see how well the condi bunkers fare after ANet gets done with them. Who knows, maybe we’ll get some buffs too.

Our Bunker is awesome.

A couple points:

1) I have to agree w/ Jax in that most people don’t utilize Blinds properly for roaming / sPvP (basically they’re both the same; small skirmishes/encounters). I also feel most people don’t use Energy Sigils and maximize weapon swaping. I also feel most people don’t get how powerful Aegis is and thus, don’t spec for it at all…. but Resolve does need to be looked at. It’s sup-par.

2) People need to realize that we are bascially stuck into 2 builds and each build fulfils different roles: a) Zerg vs Zerg; b) Roaming.

2a) Roaming builds really force you to run GS / Sword / JI. It’s our only mobility and you need 2of3…. more to the point: It’s our ~ONLY~ escapability and only ~true~ damage avoidance (Walls/Sanctuary are still privy to GTAOE)

3) We sacrifice too much for our pure DPS Builds: 12-14k hp and 2400 armor is just freak’n STUPID on a Tank class w/o es-capability. The ~reason~ other classes make it work is because they can get the hell out of dodge… when needed: 1) Aoe Snares/Stuns/Roots/Cripples/Chills; 2) Synergistic Movement Abilities w/o sacrificing Utility slots; 3) Stealth

4) Our Bunker builds don’t do enough DPS: Retal’s been nerfed to the ground and Burn is a joke w/o Condi… for which it’s asinine to expect an entire class to spec ENTIRELY for Condi… just for 1 FREAKING condition

If you’re trying to do anything other than support your group then yes a warrior is probably better. The Healway Guardian is still really good however to keep the Warriors trucking.

But dont feel bad we have pretty much shelved every other class for roaming other than Warriors(supported by a Guardian or 2), our ele finally gave in and levelled a warrior, reasons?

- Dogged march + Melandru + lemongrass: Other classes really lose out on dealing with conditions(and some just plain cant deal with them well at all) or have to spec too deep in lines that they lose DPS to deal with conditions. Not Warriors however.

- Mobility: Greatsword offers outstanding mobility, combine this with Bullrush and you can cover a lot of ground fast to catch people running or to disengage from combat when taking a lot of heat. Or obviously to run away from zergs and mini zergs(15-20mans), small man roaming hinges a lot on mobility and none do it better than Warriors.

- HP’s and Armour: even Zerker warriors are packing 20k HP’s with decent armour ratings, compare that to the glass cannon thieves or Guardians and their mighty 12k

- CC & DPS: Whats better than 2 Earthshaker warriors with backbreaker/Hammer shock/staggering blow? ……… 3 or 4 Earshaker Warriors of course. And even if not really specced for DPS for great justice can make a hundred blades deal nice damage.

- Healing: Yes that signet, 400+ hp’s a tick with very little to no healing power, better than my Guardians traited virtue of resolve(Absolute Resolution) with around 1400 healing power.

Im starting to see very good reasons arround here that fits the topic.
I just wonder what Anet would have to say about it, or maybe they could have a live stream about guardian and show us how to roll against walls and heal party members…

Note: the best way i found to use guardian were with 4 other guardians or composed with guardians and warriors party.

I have a guardian from beta I left on the shelf recently. My personal game play is not to support a group, but to be tanky and up in your face. Cant do that when TOUGHNESS IS USELESS COMPARED TO VITALITY in GW2.

If I build for bunker, I cant kill the guy who’s wittling away at my HP fast enough to stay alive. If I build the way I want (Armor/Attack) I have low HP, enough to get condi spammed so hard I still loose.

My Dual Pistol thief could bunker a point better than my guardian, thats sad, and its not even built to bunk anything.

PS.
Toughness < Vitality.

The concept of the class is to enhance teaming. Any activity that isn’t approached by a player with that in mind will feel ‘short’.

colesy.8490:

You feel bad for a class that is basically never nerfed?

And yet I bet you don’t give a kitten about how rangers, eles and mesmers were nerfed in to the ground, do you?

but were basically never improved either

I look at it this way.

Some things the guardian does, no one else can do. That’s why there’s guardians in so many team builds (if not every team build). Gotta be somethin warriors can do too, so not sure why you want to build a warrior out of a guardian.

The critical thing Guards can provide is “SYG!” Other than Guards are alright. Other classes have gotten a buffs in the past 4-5 patches that have made them a lot better and Guards still haven’t gotten anything since beta. I would be inclined to say they don’t need it but theres quite a bit of small problems that voltron it into a big problem.

Weapons (specficially sword 2/3 and scepter 2/3 need to be re-worked imo), Zero hard CCs, only one condi on a moderate application rate, excessively low health pool, and a few others.

I love my Guard, but these problems have existed since phase 2 open beta.

Dynnen.6405:

Weapons (specficially sword 2/3 and scepter 2/3 need to be re-worked imo), Zero hard CCs, only one condi on a moderate application rate, excessively low health pool, and a few others.

Would be great if scepter 2 has an aoe slow. And 1 second more for Scepter 3, idk if more range, maybe the actual range is fine for scepter 3.

Scepter 1 need a complete rework, yes is fast, but come on, only damage without effect? Our only “real” range weapon is a one handed (only 3 skills) with a pretty bad autoattack…

Sword 2 and 3 is fine. Maybe if sword 2 not required a target would be kinda op, because is a blink, not a jump.

The only class I like to play is my Guardian. I agree we are lacking in a lot of areas but as a Commander for my server I feel like I can best assist my people as a guardian. With AoE condition removals, decent AoE heals.

I don’t know about you all but as a Guardian I feel lie I should “guard” my team to keep them alive. I agree with pretty much everything the OP said but I still enjoy my Guard over anything else.

Except for being slow…. -.- lol

urieldhynne.2743:

Dynnen.6405:

Weapons (specficially sword 2/3 and scepter 2/3 need to be re-worked imo), Zero hard CCs, only one condi on a moderate application rate, excessively low health pool, and a few others.

Would be great if scepter 2 has an aoe slow. And 1 second more for Scepter 3, idk if more range, maybe the actual range is fine for scepter 3.

Scepter 1 need a complete rework, yes is fast, but come on, only damage without effect? Our only “real” range weapon is a one handed (only 3 skills) with a pretty bad autoattack…

Sword 2 and 3 is fine. Maybe if sword 2 not required a target would be kinda op, because is a blink, not a jump.

Yea, I meant Scepter 1 and 2, not Scepter 2 and 3.

At launch we were likely one of the 3 best classes. ATM I think we have shifted into being one of the 3 worst. The other classes have all been buffed almost to counter Guardians.

The only situation where a Guardain really excels is in WvW when you have a bunch of them. And this is basically because of stability and might. They got nothing else.

And in no other part of the game do they really shine.

Oh your still the best bunker! I call BS on that one. You and Necro arrive on the same point he turns all your boons into conditions. Then after you clear them, he chucks down a well. You clear them again. He just reapplies. 40 seconds later you are dead. Or you stand off the point while he captures it.

Condi meta is ridiculous right now…and what do we not really have? =P

Relentliss.2170:

At launch we were likely one of the 3 best classes. ATM I think we have shifted into being one of the 3 worst. The other classes have all been buffed almost to counter Guardians.

The only situation where a Guardain really excels is in WvW when you have a bunch of them. And this is basically because of stability and might. They got nothing else.

And in no other part of the game do they really shine.

Oh your still the best bunker! I call BS on that one. You and Necro arrive on the same point he turns all your boons into conditions. Then after you clear them, he chucks down a well. You clear them again. He just reapplies. 40 seconds later you are dead. Or you stand off the point while he captures it.

The only builds that make a Guardian really hard to kill is basically the healway build which is more a PvE/WvW buil, though even then you have faceroll engineers spamming conditions constantly like a stream and if you so much as think about killing them they kite you around forever until you die. Even with Pure of voice cleansing 2 conditions, you still get overloaded pretty easy. Then necro with all the new life force generation(easy to absorb most of your damage) boon stripping and condition application, it’s exceedingly difficult to fight because spam Marks on top of you, or they completely troll you and Grab signet of Spite, you CoP, and he/she Corrupt boons you after. If there’s 2 necros around you’re screwed basically.

The other thing to is so many classes with boon hate or condition spam, and moblity. Troll S/D thieves spam 3 all day teleport everywhere you can’t do anything. Warriors, tanky as hell with Healing Signet,and adrenal health. You won’t put a dent in the warrior if you choose to go survivable. If you go damage it’s risky and you’ll probably get killed by a cheesy stunlock or hammer build. mesmers…lol mesmers Phantasm spam, and always go invis. Though from a stand point as a owner of 2 Guardians with about over 4.3k+ hours with them in total(Shameeee) I don’t think we’re weak, but the opposition just has all the tools to counter us outright, and make us feel underwhelming, and makes it difficult for use to beat them. Also affected by in-direct nerfs(retal).

Though the reply for the bunker comment about being the best. In Spvp we basically have our stuff nerfed(Boon duration runes, and Selfless Daring) The only success i’ve had with a build to bunker alright with was a Mace/Shield, GS symbol healing build, with Clerics Amulet and energy sigils. I’m abale to hold my own 1vs 2-3. Though I always get condibombed multiple times when Necros and Engis come around. So we can Bunker alright but still difficult to really kill anything or apply good pressure, without any allies.

here to say 2 things.

I agree with the OP ONLY since the Warrior signet buff. With the combination of their damage and high hp regen, with the big health pool, they really do tank better.

With that said, I think somewhere out there someone will come up with a Guardian build that focuses on summon spirit weapons and it will change everything. Ive messed with it on and off and I see potential but im not yet ready. Seriously, its going to happen

I am completely unhappy w/ the class as it is and the only time it’s functional is when you run w/ someone who can DPS for you.

It’s a joke.

Harbinger.8637:

Wukunlin.8461:

but… why are mid bunker guards so popular?

Bunker works in tpvp not hotjoins. Bunker requires competent team mates and communication, which is severely lacking in spvp. People just zerg points, they’ll leave you a point, and an eight man zerg will come kill you in five seconds.

Would bunker warriors do better jobs with the same competent team mates and communication?

strange, i still frigging love my Guardian. whether it be WvW, sPvP, tPvP, PvE.
if you enjoy the warrior, then go play the warrior. there is something for everyone out there. and vice versa.

not saying the class can’t be improved. of course it will and i sincerely hope it does. i’d rather the meta change again, as opposed to our class being tweaked to fit the meta just for the sake of “fitting in” and being “viable” again. because, since the last time i played (i think it was yesterday), the Guardian class is STILL very viable and then some. more than holding their own in all areas of the game.

I am not really understanding how the Warrior signet can heal for so much when the Warrior has such a big health pool – using Virtue of Resolve and the justifications for our small health pool as a reference point. There is something imbalanced about the whole scenario.

colesy.8490:

You feel bad for a class that is basically never nerfed?

And yet I bet you don’t give a kitten about how rangers, eles and mesmers were nerfed in to the ground, do you?

I haven’t posted lately on here, had a house fire then just can’t seem to enjoy the game anymore, but I do want to reply to this.

Guardians are in a very similar place to rangers right now. Neither one has a clear direction. The “specialty” of each class has been reduced to nothing through the repeated use of the dreaded nerf/buff cycle that has been happening. One of the absolute worst ideas for GW2 was the idea that every profession could spec for damage/tank/utility, but certain professions have almost double the health of others. Maybe at release it was balanced around that, but it hasn’t been for a long time. The idea of “health” balancing should have never been implemented in the first place.

Sure I get the idea that the protection buff is supposed to counter low hp. However that was put in during a time when condi/bunker wasn’t nearly as powerful as it is now. It was also before the enormous amounts of punishment for buffs was added/buffed. As it stands right now protection is a weakness in spvp. When a Guardian puts on protection they are basically painting a rather large “steal/convert my buffs now!” sign on themselves.

The Devs need to just decide what direction they want each profession to move in. Then they need to actually make sure it’s at least somewhat unique. I’ve already seen warriors replacing Guards as bunker. The reason we don’t see it in tournaments I think is people are afraid it’s going to get nerfed to the ground. Why learn a profession that has no future. (Though to be fair I feel that spvp for gw2 has no future. I hope I’m wrong, but the great exile of christmas kind of sealed that).

So anyway it isn’t that people don’t feel bad for Rangers. It’s that many professions are in the same predicament. The devs have no clear focus on where they want certain professions headed. Because of that they continue to fall further behind with each patch.

With that said, I think somewhere out there someone will come up with a Guardian build that focuses on summon spirit weapons and it will change everything. Ive messed with it on and off and I see potential but im not yet ready. Seriously, its going to happen

This happened with Ranger spirit bunkers too. People were using the build far before it became so popular. Once the other options were nerfed, people switched. It wasn’t that great, but it was good for what they wanted. We see where that gets you. The problem is Anet won’t just come out and say “hey we want rangers to be X, where a third of your dps is on an ai controlled unit that is poorly coded etc”.

If they did then people could start building for whatever Anet wants. As it stands now people continue to come up with interesting builds, and every time it gets nerfed. The players shouldn’t have to guess what the devs want us to play. It’s similar to guardians. We were/are the bunker profession. Except not really. There are professions that are now better at it, and they are getting much more play. So where does that leave us?

Amins.3710:

Our Bunker is awesome.

A couple points:

1) I have to agree w/ Jax in that most people don’t utilize Blinds properly for roaming / sPvP (basically they’re both the same; small skirmishes/encounters). I also feel most people don’t use Energy Sigils and maximize weapon swaping. I also feel most people don’t get how powerful Aegis is and thus, don’t spec for it at all…. but Resolve does need to be looked at. It’s sup-par.

…

3) We sacrifice too much for our pure DPS Builds: 12-14k hp and 2400 armor is just freak’n STUPID on a Tank class w/o es-capability. The ~reason~ other classes make it work is because they can get the hell out of dodge… when needed: 1) Aoe Snares/Stuns/Roots/Cripples/Chills; 2) Synergistic Movement Abilities w/o sacrificing Utility slots; 3) Stealth

4) Our Bunker builds don’t do enough DPS: Retal’s been nerfed to the ground and Burn is a joke w/o Condi… for which it’s asinine to expect an entire class to spec ENTIRELY for Condi… just for 1 FREAKING condition

I can’t help but agree with everything you said.

I base my build around blinds and aegis. I agree that virtue of resolve could use some improvement. I’d even go as far as to say courage could use some as well. The low regen from resolve and the long cd if you actually use either of them puts me off on actually using them. It makes me just leave them alone for the passive effect. I use retreat in place of courage…specifically for the added benefits of swiftness and shorter cd.

I agree that we sacrifice way too much for sub par performance when we try to build for dps. I primarily play pve, but even then…the difference between soldier classes is too much. I agree 100% that warriors needed the improvements they got. I think they should keep everything they got. I just think the guardian needs some adjustment to match what most other classes have received. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to keep guardian HP, damage, and mobility low in light of what has been given to warriors and other classes now (higher regen, high hp, high mobility, burst damage, boon hate, boon stealing, condi spam, etc). We’re not really close to being the best at dealing with conditions, we don’t have the best regen, our hp is low by default if not traited for bunker, I’m spending 2/3 of my utility slots on mobility…I’m just saying…If I have to be glass to do damage…there’s not really a good reason that I shouldn’t be doing top shelf damage at this point. The whole rationale for low damage, low hp, and low mobility seems to have disappeared with the buff history of other classes since launch.

I also agree with the problem of low dps in guardian bunker builds. From a pve perspective…its really annoying to get stuck in a group with a bunch of bunkers…especially guardian bunkers. Killing something semi challenging is like watching paint dry with a group like that.

Posters here have pretty much hit the nail in the head with the current meta and guardian problems as of late.

In a nutshell, we do sacrifice a lot and in return we get subpar compared to other classes that are given defaults and exceed when focused on their build.

I just really really hope that if the devs are going to do something about it, they don’t just put a bandage, and so and don’t do anything else.

I do feel like the guardian does need a bit of a deeper pass , particularly on traits and their lopsidedness.

Bash.7291:

Jericho.4521:

Where is all this guardian whining coming from all the sudden? Is it warrior envy or something?

Ive always had a few things I would like to see changed on guardian, but there is some really random QQ coming from this thread for some reason. Guardians are still in a pretty decent spot, I think the issue is that we don’t really fit into the current condition bunker meta too well. But honestly, I cant see this trend lasting too much longer, necros got toned down, spirit rangers got hit this last patch. The only thing making warriors OP is their passive signet, which I wouldn’t be suprised if it got toned down too.

I think people really need to calm down and realize we are at a good fairly balanced (but still needing some slight fixes cough cough zeal) spot, and that some of the condition builds need to be toned down some.

The passive Signet really isn’t a big deal. Poison and burning nullify that passive healing really easily. People complain about it because, in the down time that they are either not attacking or are being stunned, the Warrior is slowly ticking upwards.

Sarius.6983:

Posters here have pretty much hit the nail in the head with the current meta and guardian problems as of late.

In a nutshell, we do sacrifice a lot and in return we get subpar compared to other classes that are given defaults and exceed when focused on their build.

I just really really hope that if the devs are going to do something about it, they don’t just put a bandage, and so and don’t do anything else.

I do feel like the guardian does need a bit of a deeper pass , particularly on traits and their lopsidedness.

Altruistic healing and Shout remove conditions really keep the Guardian stay alive for quite a while in a team fight and just a little longer when fighting solo. The Guardian also buffs the team a lot better then the Warrior can; AoE protection and AoE stability is really good.

If we wanted though, we could move the Warrior into bunker position and have the Guardian as power booster support with staff (and any other weapon combo) and condi removal with shouts.

Not only guardians needs to be buffed, elementalists needs too, both have one ’’rival’’ class that does better than them, warrior tank better than guardians and necros applies conditions much more faster than an elementalist, they should adjust these 4 classes to make those more balanced and not as powerful as the others, as i said the vitality of guards is way too low, and the conditions of elementalists are far less effective than necros.

Amineo.8951:

Not only guardians needs to be buffed, elementalists needs too, both have one ’’rival’’ class that does better than them, warrior tank better than guardians and necros applies conditions much more faster than an elementalist, they should adjust these 4 classes to make those more balanced and not as powerful as the others, as i said the vitality of guards is way too low, and the conditions of elementalists are far less effective than necros.

Elementalists are not supposed to be like Necros. Guardians would be 10 times harder to kill with more health. And warriors don’t have the same level of team support as Guardians do.

Classes don’t need to be the same to be on the same level.

Dirame.8521:

The passive Signet really isn’t a big deal. Poison and burning nullify that passive healing really easily. People complain about it because, in the down time that they are either not attacking or are being stunned, the Warrior is slowly ticking upwards.

Seems a pretty big deal to me, my virtue of resolve ticks for about 375 traited with absolute resolution and 1350 healing power, the warriors in my group, their healing signet ticks for just over 400 with virtually no healing power. And they have anywhere from 20k(zerker) to 30k+(bunker) hp’s. I will have between 12k(zerker) to 20k(bunker)

Dirame.8521:

Altruistic healing and Shout remove conditions really keep the Guardian stay alive for quite a while in a team fight and just a little longer when fighting solo. The Guardian also buffs the team a lot better then the Warrior can; AoE protection and AoE stability is really good.

I dont think anyone is arguing against the fact that Guardians are still a great support piece for a group with what they bring to the table. Especially something like the Healway Guardian, but people are looking outside this box. So if they want to make their Guardian do something else or strike a good balance between tank/DPS other classes(Warrior) do it better.

It’s all about the right tool for the job, i can hammer in a nail with a rock, but a nail gun does it much better.

I agree with the most posts, but in my opinion the problems are:

• The healing power scaling: you get 1500 of healing power to increease the overall healing of the skills by 23% of its base. The only exception is regeneration, that is 144%;
• The lack of mobility: We are mainly melee and we have too low ways to atk and also keep enemies in melee range (No crippe/too low, specific snares – no utility at all);
• The lack of Health: We have a 10k base Health pool. Unlike Eles and Thieves we don’t have good ways to flee from a battle (i.e. Teleporting, Invibility).

To fix that:
Make a 1500 Healing power scales to ~50% from its base and “nerf” the Regeneration to 100% and either improve the mobility, allowing us to flee from a battle or increase our base Health pool to 15k (or even both).

We already have very low DPS compared to other classes, even in full zerker. These changes won’t make us overpowered, but even.

Chorazin.4107:

Seems a pretty big deal to me, my virtue of resolve ticks for about 375 traited with absolute resolution and 1350 healing power, the warriors in my group, their healing signet ticks for just over 400 with virtually no healing power. And they have anywhere from 20k(zerker) to 30k+(bunker) hp’s. I will have between 12k(zerker) to 20k(bunker)

Base heal for Virtue of Resolve passive is 84 and healing power coefficient is 0.06.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue_of_Resolve

Absolute Resolution increases Virtue of Resolve by 25%
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution

So at most you will be getting 206 health per second with a traited VoR and 1350 healing power, not counting WvW bonuses:

84+(1350*0.06)=165
165*1.25=206.25

Just wanted to clarify the heal you actually get for the amount of stats you invest into it, lower than you were stating, exemplifying one of the problems I think we have for such low base health in today’s meta.

More HP’s isn’t going to solve the problem, though it is a step in the right direction.

Bunkers need to be able to put out some decent damage.

Retal hitting for 206, Burn for 380 and white melee dmg for 280-350 just don’t cut it.

That’s the type of dmg a Healway / Bunker type build see’s.

A regen warrior regens your dmg every second while doing ~incredible~ amounts of dmg back to you.

THAT is the problem.

The other side is, sure, we can do the 2.2k auto attacks w/ GS or Hammer, but we’re stuck at 2400 Armor and 14k Hp….

A thief will take you down in 1 combo: 8k BS 4k C&D 4k HS. Dead.
An Eviscerate can take ALL… yes, ALL of your HP’s in 1 shot.
A Necro can kill you in one Chain Fear Combo.
An Engi… why even bother… you’re dead.
A mesmer… Pistol Phant + Zerker combo… dead.
A Scepter Ele can Burst you in 2-3s.

And I’m not talking about player skill and knowing how to avoid the damage… I’m just talking straight up numbers. All of these combo’s can take out the damage in a, here is the important part, Non Gimicky Burst Combo

Good Players will just kite guardians to no end.

I do it all the time on my ranger. A guardian will not catch me because there is no SNARE/CHILL/CRIPPLE.

IMO:
1) Add Snare/chill/cripple to weapon sets (preferably Chill, it’s more DEFENSIVE)
2) Add Base HP or Traits in Zeal line for more HP (% of Power increases Vitality by X (make it a a PASSIVE trait (maybe 25 pt and combine our current 25pt and 15pt togeher).
3) Increase Dmg for Bunker builds.
4) Increase Effectiveness of VoR

Dual.8953:

Guardian is the backbone of teamplay in every mode
-_-
-PvE, unless they’re going full glass cannon zerker all the things, every team wants at least one Guardian.
-WvW, the best zerg class by far, more guardians in a zerg, the better the zerg.
-TPvP, still considered a must on any serious team.
Rarely nerfed on top of that.
Seeing guardians complain like Rangers, is like seeing those kids that complain they got a PS3 for christmas and didn’t get a sports car.

I understand what you mean Godly in Fractuals and Zergs if you got them.

I work late shifts no one around during my playing time get random 1v1’s or 1 v more when capping a few camps and towers slowly is it bad to want a few movement skill improvements a lot of other classes have?

Would you suggest I join a massive populated server to find teams and zerg’s to actually play my Guardian character in WvW or carry on helping sticking with a server?

I think you should take a deeper look and consider all area’s of the game and what’s bad about wanting to improve something we all want to improve or we get stuck wheres the fun in that?

The only defense is mentioning “Bunker Guardians are great!” Well, not every guardian wants to bunker…

As a matter of fact, Spirit Ranger’s, Bunker Engi’s, and Bunker Necro’s bunker better than guardians. Not because they provide more support, but because they can actually kill you, while holding a point.

Bunker gaurdians cant kill anything, am I the only guardian that is perfectly fine with other classes bunkering a point better than me? I can care less about bunkering a point. I want to be able to hold my own against every other class. My theif kills faster and dies much less than my guardian. So much stealth, dodge, shadow steps, blinds its crazy, while my guardian sits there like a punching bag, auto attacking with my scepter or staff…LOL