Guild Wars 2

And now I can’t play without it! If I was more tech-savvy, I’d show a video of this. But, the long and the short is:

The shield 5 knockback is just large enough to knock thieves out of their shadow refuge. So wait for the thief to pop SR, then saunter over to the middle of it and hit shield 5. Whalla, thief is out of stealth.

It’s situational, but the situation crops up so frequently that I run shield just to counter thief SR. The utility of this really cannot be stressed enough, given how frequently thieves pop SR to reset a fight or out-rotate you.

Try it before you bash it. Cheers.

Note: I’m only running the shield with a shout bunker, as it still isn’t worth it for dps builds where torch/focus still win.

Knocking people off a “point” is well known, to include shadow refuge and spvp point caps.

Pushing people over cliffs also is entertaining, but it is a short lived reward sacrificed for other better mechanics.

Glad you enjoy it, but I’m looking for something better.

When thieves gain stealth they usually apply PbAoE Blindness and our Shield #5 misses.

Wiki – Cloaked in Shadows

Well known.

Been doing that since the beginning of the game. I’ve always used a shield.

likewise – I mostly run a shield when solo-roaming – but it’s the only game scenario where it has a real tangible benefit.

That’s frankly not justifiable enough of a reason when you sacrifice 1 damaging ability and 1 usable ability to do so.

Yes you could blast them out with a shield, but you could also just drop a symbol in there or throw an aoe out there and hit ’em that way, both of which can be done with a hammer or greatsword.

It’s just not worth switching to a 1h weapon in pvp unless your offhand is torch (for burning) or focus (for anything else).

I was expecting a new combo or strategy move /sadface

Focus blocks is almost just as needed considering you can use it when immobolized/stunned and block 6k backstabs. Also, what’s preventing them to teleport further away from the guardian knowing your strategy with shield? You now can’t get there in time for a knockback.

Assic.2746:

When thieves gain stealth they usually apply PbAoE Blindness and our Shield #5 misses.

Wiki – Cloaked in Shadows

This is a good point, but the radius is 240, identical to SR. Unless the thief is popping shadow refuge right on top of you (very rare), this won’t pose a problem. Thieves usually create some distance before using SR; I can count on one hand the times I was actually in the SR radius when a thief popped it.

Kerithlan.1659:

That’s frankly not justifiable enough of a reason when you sacrifice 1 damaging ability and 1 usable ability to do so.

Yes you could blast them out with a shield, but you could also just drop a symbol in there or throw an aoe out there and hit ’em that way, both of which can be done with a hammer or greatsword.

It’s just not worth switching to a 1h weapon in pvp unless your offhand is torch (for burning) or focus (for anything else).

1) Torch also only has 1 usable ability (unless people are using Torch 5 effectively with permeating wrath and supreme justice, which I’ve yet to witness).

2) Dropping a symbol or aoe is just the poor-man’s shield 5. You can do it, but shield 5 does it better. The hammer symbol requires you to get 2 good hits off, which is far from guaranteed in SR. In a game where rotations are king, I don’t want to sit around for up to 17 seconds wondering whether my symbol killed the thief or he ran away.

Saiyan.1704:

I was expecting a new combo or strategy move /sadface

Focus blocks is almost just as needed considering you can use it when immobolized/stunned and block 6k backstabs. Also, what’s preventing them to teleport further away from the guardian knowing your strategy with shield? You now can’t get there in time for a knockback.

Sorry to disappoint…When thieves start SR’ing out of range, I’ll stop using shield. o.O

Shrug

As an aside, Focus 5 blocks are great, but I wouldn’t call them necessary: When you’re being pressured, they are just as likely to block AA’s as a burst (probably even more-so, since its such an obvious animation). Shield 5 is also good in that situation, and has the potential to mitigate more than just 3 attacks. Just saying. I can’t believe I’m actually defending the shield ><

Salamander.2504:

1) Torch also only has 1 usable ability (unless people are using Torch 5 effectively with permeating wrath and supreme justice, which I’ve yet to witness).

torch kittens like a truck with zerker and burns through limited blocks (focus 3, arcane shield etc) so quick while procing virtue of justice like boss, plus it cures condis on allies. it’s a dope weapon and there is no set i would take over sword/torch for medi.

One of the key factors that still kills the shield’s signature 5 skill: rooting.

The knockback isn’t anything new. Even with its reduced cd and new Defender trait shield still lacks the utility of the Focus. Sure, Focus may block a burst or some measly auto-attacks, but either way that still gives the guard a bit of breathing room.

choovanski.5462:

Salamander.2504:

1) Torch also only has 1 usable ability (unless people are using Torch 5 effectively with permeating wrath and supreme justice, which I’ve yet to witness).

torch kittens like a truck with zerker and burns through limited blocks (focus 3, arcane shield etc) so quick while procing virtue of justice like boss, plus it cures condis on allies. it’s a dope weapon and there is no set i would take over sword/torch for medi.

If you read the bottom of my original post, I’m only advocating a shield for a support guard. I roll torch on my medi guard too (pre- and post-patch). Torch 5 is a DPS loss, and the condi removal is unreliable. With the new burning I suppose the DPS is improved, but a bunker guard is going to be popping Virtue of Justice off CD to add party DPS. Agreed on the utility of eating through e.g., Focus blocks, which highlights another reason why the Focus doesn’t necessarily alleviate that much pressure—its so telegraphed. In any case, this discussion isn’t about how great (or otherwise) Focus and Torch are, but the underrated utility shield 5 has in regards to thieves’ SR.

The problem is that it isn’t underrated utility, and that both torch and focus are better weapon options for a support guardian.

Blasting something out of a combo field, regardless of the effect, isn’t that great. Your knockback doesn’t do damage, so there’s no breaking of stealth. You now just have a thief in a different location that can potentially get behind you anyway.

Dropping a symbol or throwing out the ol’ snare chains with greatsword will damage the thief, breaking their stealth. This also allows you to snag them next to you and burst them down.

Both of those scenarios are infinitely better than mildly inconveniencing a thief by denying them one of their three stealth options for a minute or so. A thief can easily prolong a fight or escape if they need to, and while you’re not exactly slow, you’re still not going to catch a thief that actively wants to flee unless you snare them.

It’s not underrated, it’s just not good.

Edit: basically what I’m saying is that by taking the shield, you are actively choosing to have a #4 skill that doesn’t work as well as it should, a #5 skill with a bugged duration and no damage, and the mindset that less damage and less ranged harassment options are better for support and skirmishing.

Yes, the directional cone of shield #4 and its 600 range mean less on a messy, disorganized, skirmishy battlefield. Yes, this makes shield #4 more useful in those situations.

Yes, the knockback of shield #5 can pop people out of healing and utility fields. Yes, you can benefit from a group-wide heal if projectiles aren’t an issue.

However, shield #5 immobilizes you, while the other offhands do not. Shield #5 also deals no damage, while the other offhands do.

Compare the utility of torch #5 and shield #5.

Torch #5 cleanses conditions, pulses enough to apply burning, damages enemies, allows you to walk around, has a shorter cooldown, and most importantly has a great damage coefficient. Shield #5 has a melee-range knockback, creates a light field, heals allies with a weak coefficient, only effects 5 enemies/allies, has a longer cooldown, and more.

Remember that torch #5 hits up to 3 targets with each pulse, and that it pulses a whopping 9 times in just 4.5 seconds — that’s two pulses a second. You can direct that cone wherever you want to hit the most allies/enemies. You’re not limited to just five targets. This in and of itself is far superior to the simple knockback/heal of shield #5.

Additionally, torch #4 far outclasses shield #4 for the skirmish/harassment game for much of the same reasons. Torch #4 burns nearby foes when activated, it can be activated to throw burning and damage (with good coefficients) up to 1200 range, it has a shorter cooldown than shield #4, basically the short of it is that it is better at harassing both near and distant foes that could threaten you.

Shield #4 and shield #5 have very little trait synergy. Torch #4 and #5 can be traited and improved.

I mean I could keep going, but in every situation the torch is a better support/utility weapon than the shield can ever be in its current form. The focus is the best for such a role, but the torch far outclasses the shield.

Most importantly though, let’s stop pretending that support doesn’t include debuffing your opponent. That extra burning from torch is an extra effect that your opponent now needs to mitigate/account for, and can help push the fight slightly more into your allies’ favor. Even if it’s as simple as a dodge roll to remove it, it’s still a situation where someone is forced to use a dodge roll at a time that might not be otherwise convenient.

Support is more than just mitigating damage — it’s also controlling the field, debuffing and crippling enemies, and helping to burst down opponents’ numbers to give you the man advantage. If you cannot do at least two of those three on top of healing and buffing, you’re dead weight.

Shield is just clunky and unusable. This is coming from someone who loves the shield and uses it knowing that it is far inferior to the other options.