Guild Wars 2

I usually don’t post on the forums—hear me out! I’m not a bad player, but not the best.

I was unknowingly guesting on Blackgate. I did LFG for an AC run. I was on my Guardian. I was spec’d 100% Healway Guardian (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-The-Healway-Guardian).

I was with a Warr/Warr/Ele/Mes. Someone pulled the Spider Queen and it was dead BEFORE it crawled to the spot you normally stack. I thought it was a bug/glitch. WTF.

The graveling sob after the spider queen was the same. We stacked and ALL of the mobs and the champ were dead in about 3-4 secs. I started asking in my group what was going on. They told me that they knew “how to roll” and that “you’re bad, but it’s okay”.

We killed Kholer in about 15 seconds. I asked them why I was bad and told them my build (healway guardian). They all freaked out and said my build was crap and started offering suggestions.

At the end I switched to my low level warrior for the XP (like most people do) and they kicked me for it. I guess they had no tolerance for that.

So my question is simple: How is it possible to kill bosses in AC as fast as I described and why is the Healway Guardian build bad (according to people on Blackgate)?

I thought it was quite good, tbh. Thanks.

with regards to PVE builds, the survivability you get is typically trivial comparing to the damage boost you get so sacrificing a lot of your damage to be tankier or hard to kill is just a bad trade in general. There are exceptions like TA end bosses (dunno about scarlet path) and teq where you can’t crit anyway so might as well be in PVT but generally if you want to do a dungeon path quickly, you would want to be in berserker gear (condition damage is extremely under powered for group content atm) with damage boosting traits.

As for switching at the end to lvl up your alt, well, some people just find that unacceptable. Personally I’m fine with it if the person asks me before hand, I will even hold the cutscene for them.

btw, the people you described sound very familiar XD

Cause Anet current design = Damage > Everything else. Horrible PvE design in my eye’s but dosen’t seem like they are going to change it anytime soon.

Side note:
Even defiance as it is behaving now is really really bad and actually punishes people for using most of there CC against bosses, if there is someone in the party with a longer duration cc. One easy way to fix is, "defiance is timed x3 on the duration that the current cc had. Meaning if you stun them for 10 seconds, they will gain defiance for 30x where 10 of those will be during the “stun”. Would motivate alot more CC ability’s. Then we are only started on way to design good PvE. Sadly, it seems like no interest has been given to the PvE content although it has been updated alot since release so atleast it is bether than it used to be.

What about this build? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9GKZP3oyik0#t=148

Is this closer to ‘the truth’?

yes but you will be surprised how squishy you are if you jump right into it with that build. Might be easier to use something like 10/30/0/30/0, get used to using your active defensive skills then switch to brazil’s build or any other optimum dps builds

I wouldn’t say you were bad, because you’ve realised you were doing something wrong – more like you were misguided.

Bad players are ones who refuse to learn.

Perikittenor.1892:

Cause Anet current design = Damage > Everything else. Horrible PvE design in my eye’s but dosen’t seem like they are going to change it anytime soon.

Totally not “horrible”. We are the same as any other game: Bring just enough support to keep everyone alive, and buckle up because everything else is made of balls of steel and high damage. The difference between GW2 and other MMOs is that we have a lot of mitigation thru dodges and skills, and no healer-only class, which means we don’t have to spec into healing aside from utilities and elites, support in itself is also not focused into one class. Basically, it’s either what we have now or trinity.

And yes i am talking about PvE, in case that’s not obvious enough.

Healway hits like a limp noodle in PvE (and everywhere). They were right.

I’m a firm believer that everyone should start off PvE in full zerk + ruby orbs and see where you are at. If, after learning the encounters and mechanics, you still find yourself dying, THEN add in pieces of tanky gear until you find the bare minimum of survivability you need whilst maximizing your DPS.

It’s not just the gear, though, it’s the build. Spec more DPS @ first and get used to life without AH. It’s a whole new world out there.

Main problem with GW2 design is that most bosses can be so hard countered by bringing down the thunder on there head that they won’t even notice what struck them. And there is the main problem, Bosses are not designed to promote CC abilitys. Bosses are not promoted in prolonged combat. And that is what i feel is wrong.

Remember how the dungeons were before, way back. You could WP during combat and zerg a boss to death, they improved that. But they still have not improved alot of encounters. Before they buffed AC we could solo it. DOes that seem like a good Dungeon design??. NO, the game is designed to bring you down to the current area level, therefore if they design a dungeon “5 man teamwork” then it should require teamwork. They made AC harder, but i still barely see teamwork. All i see is most of the time 4 other people bashing there head as hard as they can against a boss head, and then they prey that the boss will die before they do.

And that is not even the sad part. The sad part is that 95% of the time, it works bether than coordinated teamwork.

No it does not work better than coordinated teamwork.

Unless that coordinated teamwork consists of “I’m going to be the shout-heal warrior tank, you can be the staff camping heal guardian and you three can put down nice ranged DPS!!”, then thank godness they die because they’re idiots.

purgatoryz.6038:

Healway hits like a limp noodle in PvE (and everywhere). They were right.

I’m a firm believer that everyone should start off PvE in full zerk + ruby orbs and see where you are at. If, after learning the encounters and mechanics, you still find yourself dying, THEN add in pieces of tanky gear until you find the bare minimum of survivability you need whilst maximizing your DPS.

It’s not just the gear, though, it’s the build. Spec more DPS @ first and get used to life without AH. It’s a whole new world out there.

This is relevant to my interests, since I just started a Guardian (my very first) last Thursday. I used my birthday scroll to get to 20, crafted another 35 levels, and then hit PvE. On the suggestion of a friend, I went for Mighty/Berserker’s armor, weapons, and jewelry. I’ve used the same set of Runes the whole time (four Major Balthazar, two Major Flame Legion). My spec is mostly Radiance and Zeal, with a little bit of Virtues. I eat Power food.

Currently I am up to level 75. I’ve gotten used to the whole “survive with blinds/aegis/blocks/killfacing things” using a mix of either Greatsword or Sword + Focus. I’m using Signets, which I understand is bad for support, but it’s nice for open world soloing. I mapped Virtue of Justice to a side mouse button, because I’m pressing it like my life depended on it.

I don’t feel very Guardian-like, but the damage is nice. Mobs of trash will down me pretty quickly if I make a mistake or push buttons incorrectly. But those same trash enemies die in a single autoattack chain, or one chain and a little more.

I am concerned about Champions. Blinds won’t work, and CC is unreliable.

Amen to that brother. Since start a year ago i’ve never feelt like a “Guardian” but i do admit that Virtue F1 is really nice.

For champions you’ll have to rely on utility from weapon skills, vigor from honor 5, aegis, WoR and SotA.

And changing the subject a little, i really don’t know why most players thinks that running in zerk gear requires no coordination, it doesn’t even makes sense, lol.

Actually every profession I’ve played so far I’ve invested in a set of zerker’s armor with ruby orb trinkets. Guardian is the only prof I haven’t spec’d for DPS.

I don’t know about anyone else, but the reason I went Healway was to help my groups get through dungeons.

And though it sounds vain, I’m not necessarily concerned about hitting like a truck with zerker’s for my guardian. I’m more concerned with not being BAD, which in this case it seems not hitting like a truck=being bad.

But if you die a lot from the zerker’s, what makes you bad? If the group you run with isn’t all zerker’s EITHER, what good are you?

Cause 95% of the time it is not needed to coordinate.

Oxxy.7068:

For champions you’ll have to rely on utility from weapon skills, vigor from honor 5, aegis, WoR and SotA.

Yeah, I was afraid of that.

I may need to mix some Valkyrie’s or something into my final build, because I’m not that good at surviving without Blinds. Maybe this is an argument for 5 points of Valor, or something, as insta-blick protection.

Ribann.3691:

Actually every profession I’ve played so far I’ve invested in a set of zerker’s armor with ruby orb trinkets. Guardian is the only prof I haven’t spec’d for DPS.

I don’t know about anyone else, but the reason I went Healway was to help my groups get through dungeons.

And though it sounds vain, I’m not necessarily concerned about hitting like a truck with zerker’s for my guardian. I’m more concerned with not being BAD, which in this case it seems not hitting like a truck=being bad.

But if you die a lot from the zerker’s, what makes you bad? If the group you run with isn’t all zerker’s EITHER, what good are you?

If the group you run with isn’t zerker, then well I’d link you to Nikaido’s story if I could find it.

He did AC p1 and p3 with a PUG group, and he got through the first path mostly fine. As a test, he took his zerker gear off for p3 and then when he went along with the group trying to perform their usual stacking strategies they all died because they couldn’t kill the mobs quick enough.

Basically, it helps you carry PUGs, and if your group is all zerker then it just means you get to carry your weight and it marginalises room for error. I get the impression when you were on your healway they would either instantly get K.O’d or they’d dodge lethal hits which meant in both cases your heals didn’t do anything.

@Interceptor – When i was getting used to my guardian i rocked full valk gear with zerk trinkets and weapons, it gave me just enough room to recover from my errors until i was totally confident to use full zerker stuff, after that i swaped to zerker and ruby orbs, and when i was – finally – used to most bosses “tells” i swaped to scholar runes.

@Riban
If you are afraid to die alot with zerk gear, start off with valk or knights and some defensive traits and then swap slowly to zerk. And, if my personal experience is of any help, when i want to carry a group of bad players i simply go to my guardian, which is using zerk and scholar runes (as i pointed out earlier).

Edit to help colesy out – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Why-people-hate-zerks/page/3#post2878918

There you go.

Oxxy.7068:

@Interceptor – When i was getting used to my guardian i rocked full valk gear with zerk trinkets and weapons, it gave me just enough room to recover from my errors until i was totally confident to use full zerker stuff, after that i swaped to zerker and ruby orbs, and when i was – finally – used to most bosses “tells” i swaped to scholar runes.

This sounds like a good training wheel program; I’ll try it, thanks. I’ve been thinking about Soldier runes, though, for the bonus condi removal. Will work that in somehow.

My next question is, besides the video I posted earlier, what is the ideal zerker spec for running dungeons? In other words, what trait spec/slot skills do you use along with your zerker’s armor for running dungeons?

I used to invest all points into healing power when I first started. Now I invest into precision as well, this gives me more damage output as a whole. Vigorous precision and empowering might in the honor line can really benefit from this. I have healing trinkets/accessory, but precision on all armor set with rune of lyssa. 900 something healing power, and 43% crit chance I think it’s pretty well balanced for solo play as well as team play….

Ribann.3691:

My next question is, besides the video I posted earlier, what is the ideal zerker spec for running dungeons? In other words, what trait spec/slot skills do you use along with your zerker’s armor for running dungeons?

There is no “best spec”, everything is situational and depends on your weapon tastes, mostly, if you want to roll with hammer and gs, go 15/x/0/20(or 30)/x, if you want roll a sword based build go for x/30/0/x/x, i’d recommend using 30 in valor for cleanses and extra health pool.

Instead of specing for more tanky gear, first take 30 in valor and see how that works for you. Pure of Voice is great for condi removal, and the extra health is nice.

For gear, even if you don’t go full zerk you should be 100% zerker/cavalier ascended trinkets because of the critical damage %.

For weapons, hammer can be speced to provide 100% protection uptime, which is more damage reduction that you’ll see with any gear choice. And…hammers are awesome!

please don’t use AH, it’s like a drug that makes you bad. if you want to run points in valour try just 10 for strength in numbers (decent trait in itself).

for a starting-out semi-offensive build, try hammer/x 15/15/0/30/10. with the hammer protection it’s pretty forgiving to run full berserker gear, and you also have a big health cushion from the 200 extra vitality you get compared to a full dps build (most have 10-0 in honor). you still do decent damage, and provide all the support that a guardian is normally expected to provide.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

please don’t use AH, it’s like a drug that makes you bad. if you want to run points in valour try just 10 for strength in numbers (decent trait in itself).

for a starting-out semi-offensive build, try hammer/x 15/15/0/30/10. with the hammer protection it’s pretty forgiving to run full berserker gear, and you also have a big health cushion from the 200 extra vitality you get compared to a full dps build (most have 10-0 in honor). you still do decent damage, and provide all the support that a guardian is normally expected to provide.

Yah, I mentioned Pure of Voice but said Valor, clearly I meant honor there. The above is good advice.

Honestly man yeah, your build is bad. People need to understand that dodging is OP and there’s no need for support classes. The trick is to kill fast and dodge spike damage. Your build doesn’t contribute to killing fast so you’re essentially dead weight.

The current PVE meta = running full berserker for just about everything.

colesy.8490:

I wouldn’t say you were bad, because you’ve realised you were doing something wrong – more like you were misguided.

Bad players are ones who refuse to learn.

best post on this forum.

heh, the number of people saying when valor, when they really mean honor in this thread! okay not that many… but one too many! ; )))

just adding that if you are pugging and your group isn’t “optimal”, you can still go full zerker, but maybe starting off, you might want to trait a bit more defensively, like having 30 in Honor. for example, if conditions can be a problem, make sure you’ve AoE condition cleansing taken care of, unless if you ask in the pug if someone else is doing that.

when not in an “optimally setup” group, you usually willt ake longer to dispatch mobs, which leads to more room for error, which can lead to losing more health, you see where this is going.

each group you end up in will perform differently so.. i don’t know if this will come out the way i want it to, but to a certain extent make sure you can take care of yourself first, then you’re doing your group the biggest favor there is. as a Guard, if you can blind/protect/cleanse/regen/reflect for yourself, you can most definitely AoE blind/protect/cleanse/regen/reflect for your group. while providing more than steady DPS throughout.

[edit: typo and added some clarification]

colesy.8490:

I wouldn’t say you were bad, because you’ve realised you were doing something wrong – more like you were misguided.

Bad players are ones who refuse to learn.

^. You have now seen the light. Do not stray from this path, lest you be rotting at the bottom of the dungeoneer’s foodchain with the ex-magic finders and PVT AH’ers.

Blessed be this day. Blessed.

Ribann.3691:

I usually don’t post on the forums—hear me out! I’m not a bad player, but not the best.

I was unknowingly guesting on Blackgate. I did LFG for an AC run. I was on my Guardian. I was spec’d 100% Healway Guardian (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-The-Healway-Guardian).

I was with a Warr/Warr/Ele/Mes. Someone pulled the Spider Queen and it was dead BEFORE it crawled to the spot you normally stack. I thought it was a bug/glitch. WTF.

The graveling sob after the spider queen was the same. We stacked and ALL of the mobs and the champ were dead in about 3-4 secs. I started asking in my group what was going on. They told me that they knew “how to roll” and that “you’re bad, but it’s okay”.

We killed Kholer in about 15 seconds. I asked them why I was bad and told them my build (healway guardian). They all freaked out and said my build was crap and started offering suggestions.

At the end I switched to my low level warrior for the XP (like most people do) and they kicked me for it. I guess they had no tolerance for that.

So my question is simple: How is it possible to kill bosses in AC as fast as I described and why is the Healway Guardian build bad (according to people on Blackgate)?

I thought it was quite good, tbh. Thanks.

In pve you can determine the enemies style by fighting them often; so you know their quirks, which means you need little defensive attributes to kill them, but use strategy, bugs, and smart means.

Don’t be too kitten yourself. Simply get a second set of exos, with all knights or knights cavalier, or berserker for pve events.

Sovereign.1093:

In pve you can determine the enemies style by fighting them often; so you know their quirks, which means you need little defensive attributes to kill them, but use strategy, bugs, and smart means.

Seriously, bro?
I have two explanations for this – You think stacking is a bug
Or
You think climbing the stairs at ACP1 is a valid strat

Either way it looks bad.

Oxxy.7068:

Sovereign.1093:

In pve you can determine the enemies style by fighting them often; so you know their quirks, which means you need little defensive attributes to kill them, but use strategy, bugs, and smart means.

Seriously, bro?
I have two explanations for this – You think stacking is a bug.

If the mob is behaving differently because of the stacking, then yes you’re exploiting a bug. If by stacking you just mean “stand somewhat close to each other so we are all affected by buffs etc. and the mob stays in one spot” then no, it’s not a bug.

Almost every boss behaves differently if the party ranges or melee it. Take spider and alpha for example, if we have someone range-ing any of these, they’ll spam ranged habilities, if everyone is meleeing, you’ll not see said habilities. Pretty sure lupi has some habilities that only affect ranged people as well. I don’t really get how any of that is a bug, it seems like intended combat mechanics to me.

Oxxy.7068:

Almost every boss behaves differently if the party ranges or melee it. Take spider and alpha for example, if we have someone range-ing any of these, they’ll spam ranged habilities, if everyone is meleeing, you’ll not see said habilities. Pretty sure lupi has some habilities that only affect ranged people as well. I don’t really get how any of that is a bug, it seems like intended combat mechanics to me.

Nah meleeing all together in one spot = clearly exploiting. All melee weapons should be deleted from the game to discourage this. Whoever thought melee was a good idea in this game needs to be fired.

/all braincells officially dead.

No DeathPanel, he is not trolling, and nobody is interested in your evaluation.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ribann.3691:

I usually don’t post on the forums—hear me out! I’m not a bad player, but not the best.

I was unknowingly guesting on Blackgate. I did LFG for an AC run. I was on my Guardian. I was spec’d 100% Healway Guardian (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-The-Healway-Guardian).

I was with a Warr/Warr/Ele/Mes. Someone pulled the Spider Queen and it was dead BEFORE it crawled to the spot you normally stack. I thought it was a bug/glitch. WTF.

The graveling sob after the spider queen was the same. We stacked and ALL of the mobs and the champ were dead in about 3-4 secs. I started asking in my group what was going on. They told me that they knew “how to roll” and that “you’re bad, but it’s okay”.

We killed Kholer in about 15 seconds. I asked them why I was bad and told them my build (healway guardian). They all freaked out and said my build was crap and started offering suggestions.

At the end I switched to my low level warrior for the XP (like most people do) and they kicked me for it. I guess they had no tolerance for that.

So my question is simple: How is it possible to kill bosses in AC as fast as I described and why is the Healway Guardian build bad (according to people on Blackgate)?

I thought it was quite good, tbh. Thanks.

Yes, you are bad but not for reasons you think.

1. Healway is for pvp, not pve dungeons. But since it’s AC it doesn’t really matter too much.

1. You switch to your low level alt near end most likely without telling your team before hand or asking if it’s alright, and since they are most likely already frustrated with you at that point a kick is expected.

What most likely really happened based on what you said was you probably contributed very little and died quite a few times which prompted your team to ask you what your build was, and garnered that reaction after you told them.

Then the last straw came when you switch to your low level alt without telling your team or asking for permission beforehand, which got you kicked.

If you are not trolling and what you said was real, then this is my evaluation of why it happened.

Looking at your post history it seems clear that you come to the forums with the sole objective of offending/inflaming others interested in having legitimate discussions.

I’m reporting your post, and your post in another thread, and recommending that others do the same. There’s no need for you to post vitriol in every single thread you participate in. If you don’t like the discussion, don’t join it. Harassing others and calling them trolls is totally unnecessary.

Oxxy.7068:

Almost every boss behaves differently if the party ranges or melee it. Take spider and alpha for example, if we have someone range-ing any of these, they’ll spam ranged habilities, if everyone is meleeing, you’ll not see said habilities. Pretty sure lupi has some habilities that only affect ranged people as well. I don’t really get how any of that is a bug, it seems like intended combat mechanics to me.

Those seem fine, but “stacking” also refers to things like SE P3 1st boss stacking on the boxes (or whatever they are) or dredge fractal stacking on the wooden supports both of which are clear exploits.

Oxxy.7068:

Sovereign.1093:

In pve you can determine the enemies style by fighting them often; so you know their quirks, which means you need little defensive attributes to kill them, but use strategy, bugs, and smart means.

Seriously, bro?
I have two explanations for this – You think stacking is a bug
Or
You think climbing the stairs at ACP1 is a valid strat

Either way it looks bad.

You can always opt to do it the hard way. Take ta – new path for example. kill every single thing on your path <3

Yaki.9563:

Those seem fine, but “stacking” also refers to things like SE P3 1st boss stacking on the boxes (or whatever they are) or dredge fractal stacking on the wooden supports both of which are clear exploits.

These falls under the stairs category, we’re on the same page here, i think.

Sovereign.1093:

You can always opt to do it the hard way. Take ta – new path for example. kill every single thing on your path <3

At last, casual runners rejoice, skipping what you don’t want to kill and bugs are suddenly the same thing.

I’m not familiar with any pve jargon you guys are using. Haha.