Guild Wars 2

Okay I was going to post this massive wall of text but I thought more people would read it if I kept it simple and short.

Empower on #4 staff is underrated. This skill alone should make you equip a staff.

Empower gives 12 stacks of might to 5 players. If the average player has 2100 power, it grants a 20% increase in damage for those players. To put things into perspective, this means that there is DPS as if there was an extra player around.

Get boon duration runes to make that 12 stacks permanent.

Go support guardian not DPS.

Equip a staff and you can never go wrong! Unless your party is 5 guardians.

Or just use fire fields and blast finishers and then all 5 members of the group can dps with 25 stacks of long duration might.

party of 5 guards is a party

That’s why most of my build stack might duration. =] But in truth the only time it really shines is in WvW, where being able to drop a long duration Might at the beginning of the fight is great because you can’t guarantee being able to reapply it later. In PvE, generally speaking might duration is unneeded. But don’t let that stop you, it’s definitely fun to have.

Uh, it’s not a 20% boost. The might adds up to about 20% for each player but you yourself deal nothing, so it’s a 20% boost to 80% of the party DPS, or +16% overall, assuming you have enough boon duration to keep it up 100% (you need at least 90%).

Alternately, you could just DPS yourself, and since most pugs are bad, you will probably contribute way more than 16% of the party’s overall DPS. In most pug situations I wouldn’t be surprised if a single DPS-specced player was contributing half or more of the party’s DPS.

So you think that a properly geared and specced DPS player does 4x the damage of the typical PUG player? No way.

Yaki.9563:

So you think that a properly geared and specced DPS player does 4x the damage of the typical PUG player? No way.

0/0/30/30/10 staff guardian in cleric’s deals about base 420 damage/second. 20/30/20/0/0 zerk GS guardian deals 3800. A typical pug player is probably somewhere in between (let’s say Strife’s old build, 0/15/30/20/5 in full knights) which is worth about 1900.

Also consider that Guardian base DPS tends to be pretty average. A 10/30/0/0/30 mesmer with Assassin’s gear would be about 5400 DPS. So you’re looking at 5400 on a properly specced Sin DPS mesmer vs. 420 on a full tank PUG. Since a lot of guardian pugs run AH at least 2-3x DPS isn’t that much a stretch at all.

Incidentally, I also see a lot of healshout GS warriors, which is worth about 1900 as well in knights and 2800 in zerker if you went something like 0/25/15/30/0. So you could have 4 “full zerk” warriors dealing a sum total of 68% of the party’s DPS, with the one DPS mesmer still making up 32%.

By using empower, you obviously would switch to a DPS weapon afterwards. So the 16% is a bonus and you can make your part of the dps too by… DPSing, I’m sure you can do 4% of the party’s DPS with a staff even, but generally, you’ll do on average 20% which gets boosted to 24% with Empower. That’s 120% of normal Party DPS considering that you also provide boons and regen and what not to keep your players from dying. Doesn’t matter if a Mesmer can do 5400 DPS if they can only do it for one second or if they’re always downed. But if they are doing 5400 DPS, you’ll be making them do 1080 more DPS etc.

So. Much. Win with staff zzz

Damage Per Second, Let’s remember this.

Dun forget u are not dealing damage while channeling for 2.5s….. And u will be stuck with a crappy auto attack for at least 6s. Which means low dps. U could probably empower before the fight but its not worth it during a fight

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Yaki.9563:

So you think that a properly geared and specced DPS player does 4x the damage of the typical PUG player? No way.

0/0/30/30/10 staff guardian in cleric’s deals about base 420 damage/second.

Really? That’s one sleepy Guardian. Just burning gives 350ish. What kind of time durations are you using to determine these averages? Are you quoting bursts here?

NVM .. I see you specify base damage. Early morning lack of coffee.

Sxalpha.5063:

By using empower, you obviously would switch to a DPS weapon afterwards. So the 16% is a bonus and you can make your part of the dps too by… DPSing, I’m sure you can do 4% of the party’s DPS with a staff even, but generally, you’ll do on average 20% which gets boosted to 24% with Empower. That’s 120% of normal Party DPS considering that you also provide boons and regen and what not to keep your players from dying. Doesn’t matter if a Mesmer can do 5400 DPS if they can only do it for one second or if they’re always downed. But if they are doing 5400 DPS, you’ll be making them do 1080 more DPS etc.

So. Much. Win with staff zzz

People always make the argument that you can’t DPS if you’re downed, but DPS-spec’d players are obviously going to at least try to learn the encounter. Mesmer is a pretty poor example too, since their phantasms do pretty solid DPS anyway (and a bad player will down anyway, just not as fast as a DPS one even with the mesmer sitting there doing nothing.

Maybe you just can’t handle how useless non-DPS specs are after reading Guang’s posts, his posts tend to be quite hard to believe but they’re normally pretty accurate since he’s an exper in excel wars 2, you just have to dismiss any preconceived notions you may have had (e.g. rangers in dungeons) so your brain doesn’t explode.

Step 1) Live
Step 2) Do dmg

Day 1 stuff. The better you are at living (individual skill, build, gear, etc) the more you can trade survival for dmg. The ideal is to meet the minimum for survival and maximize the dmg.

Staff #4s nice, good heals too. #2 does decent heal. Lines of warding are awesome. Auto attack wont post massive numbers but it’s basically guaranteed to hit 5 in large groups so in terms of overall dmg can be quite good.

/shrug

When your team got the best combination of class whichbeing able to provide the team with 25 stack of might constantly, what makes you think you are useful with a staff in it?

Combo is the most important design in this game, not about, “Wow i can give every one might, cool, i am needed in the party”

IMHO Staff is only useful in WvW, not in dungeon.

Yeah right.

I gotta say, I agree with some of these guys here.

No matter how much I love screwing a mass of risen trying to kill me with Line of Warding,

Empower is bad if you plan on doing the dungeon within an optimal time and because your team might be spread out because of the objectives.

In WvW though, it shines brighter than a Frosty Sylvari wearing Radiant Vambraces.

P.S. Using the “downed Glass Cannon” argument is not a good argument in most PvE situations. Especially in Fractals.

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Or the warriors could learn to dodge and the guardian could go full DPS? DPS guardian brings everything to the table that a healspec guard does, except the high healing power. Which is a moot stat if your team is capable of dodging mechanics properly like the game intended.

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

only group heal I use on my guardian is the full hp tome heal I use at jade maw.

In your average situation where everyone in a group is not optimized out the wazoo for optimal performance ultra specific roles staff is very strong. Thats the situation your average player plays under the most.

Actually it’s bad because it means you aren’t doing good DPS, which means you aren’t ending the fight as quickly as possible, which means you’re giving yourself and your team more room for error.

It’s good for fights like simin and snowblind boss in pugs that doesn’t stack might with fire fields, but generally switching to staff in the middle of the fight… nty

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Uh, it’s not a 20% boost. The might adds up to about 20% for each player but you yourself deal nothing, so it’s a 20% boost to 80% of the party DPS, or +16% overall, assuming you have enough boon duration to keep it up 100% (you need at least 90%).

Alternately, you could just DPS yourself, and since most pugs are bad, you will probably contribute way more than 16% of the party’s overall DPS. In most pug situations I wouldn’t be surprised if a single DPS-specced player was contributing half or more of the party’s DPS.

The other day I was doing CoF and was killing the acolytes to drop the shield on the stone at the end?

I killed one of the acolytes before the other entire four of the rest of the team had finished focusing done another one.

I was killing things faster than the rest of the team -combined-.

… Ugh.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

lets see shout heals, not only does save yourself take all of the conditions you can have it traited to take conditions and heal ppl when you use it.
the dodge roll, the heal skill itself, the shield bubble (it has a second action which heals) almost everything on the staff, the mace, the torch, the focus.
the elite which has a full heal meaning a warrior can go from 1 hp to full.

so tell me how 1 healing skill on some engie beats all of a guardian, and if guardians are the same as warriors for dps why are they never picked for speed runs? why is the pro speed running team 4 warriors and a mesmer for timewarp. it be 5 warriors if the mesmer didnt have timewarp.
guardians are poor for dps look at a classes skills and if it has 90% of them having to do with healing/boon giving/ damage mitigation then that class is gonna suck for dps.

not to mention you can be traited to give the regen virtue to other ppl

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

lets see shout heals, not only does save yourself take all of the conditions you can have it traited to take conditions and heal ppl when you use it.
the dodge roll, the heal skill itself, the shield bubble (it has a second action which heals) almost everything on the staff, the mace, the torch, the focus.
the elite which has a full heal meaning a warrior can go from 1 hp to full.

why is the pro speed running team 4 warriors and a mesmer for timewarp. it be 5 warriors if the mesmer didnt have timewarp.
guardians are poor for dps look at a classes skills and if it has 90% of them having to do with healing/boon giving/ damage mitigation then that class is gonna suck for dps.

Wow you’re behind the meta.

That hasn’t been the optimum teambuild for pve for like… a few months.

and… Guardians have just fine DPS. I’d bother showing you why, but you kinda already showed you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with your 4 Warrior 1 Mes comment.

Please be current with the meta if you’re going to bother making bold declarations about a class.

Healing isn’t useful in PvE and all of the Guardians support options don’t significantly hamper their DPS. In fact, they’re pretty valued in many team comps.

Not to mention guardians don’t even have healshouts, or heals on half of the other things he listed.

I have always used staff as an off-set weapon. Always. Empower is basically the only reason. 12 stacks of AoE might is basically like having another person in the party. yes, Damage per Second is important, but efficiency and sustainability is also. You can have a team with the highest DPS in the game, but how long can they keep it up? 3 seconds? 8 seconds? then cooldown and autos for what, 20 to 240 seconds?

with boon duration + empower you can keep a low but respectable cap on dps and sustain any fight to make it shorter. anytime I don’t bring it, the fight takes longer, regardless of the builds of my teammates.

Empower and staff in general on a guardian can be summed up as: Battle Grease.

and if you happen to have a mesmer in the party with Sig of Inspiration, everything above just doubled.

The problem with staff 4 is actually Time and lack of mobility…

I guess it depends on the game style between PvP/WvW and PvE. In WvW you don’t always have time to stop, drop 4, and then engage. Any enemy is going to take that pause you just did for your might and lay a serious molly whopping on you. I mean you just gave them a head start…

Zergs I find it rather funny because you see the bait ball moving and all of a sudden it stops. Again, people buff up, move out, and maybe attack. One of the two bait balls is going to come out on top but usually ends up in a train wreck…

Buffs in this game are a bit weird in my mind. Better than say the DaOC days whereas we all had buff bots at the keeps to reapply after death. WoW they went from 5 minutes to 30 and beyond. Not sure what the right answer is but while I use a staff for various things the whole #4 thing is situational I find but that is just my opinion.

roachsrealm.9284:

You can have a team with the highest DPS in the game, but how long can they keep it up? 3 seconds? 8 seconds? then cooldown and autos for what, 20 to 240 seconds?

Entire fight.
Ele + LH + Purging flames/Hallowed ground + banners, l0l.

edit: While i do like staff as a weapon for might gimmick before fights, i usually run stuff with a close group of friends and sadly i’m both, guardian or ele, on most runs and if i had another ele to do stuff with me while playing as a guard i wouldn’t have to use my staff at all, i’d probably use hammer to start fights using the blast finisher or greatsword to selfishly boost my dps a little.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

lets see shout heals, not only does save yourself take all of the conditions you can have it traited to take conditions and heal ppl when you use it.
the dodge roll, the heal skill itself, the shield bubble (it has a second action which heals) almost everything on the staff, the mace, the torch, the focus.
the elite which has a full heal meaning a warrior can go from 1 hp to full.

why is the pro speed running team 4 warriors and a mesmer for timewarp. it be 5 warriors if the mesmer didnt have timewarp.
guardians are poor for dps look at a classes skills and if it has 90% of them having to do with healing/boon giving/ damage mitigation then that class is gonna suck for dps.

Wow you’re behind the meta.

That hasn’t been the optimum teambuild for pve for like… a few months.

and… Guardians have just fine DPS. I’d bother showing you why, but you kinda already showed you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with your 4 Warrior 1 Mes comment.

Please be current with the meta if you’re going to bother making bold declarations about a class.

Healing isn’t useful in PvE and all of the Guardians support options don’t significantly hamper their DPS. In fact, they’re pretty valued in many team comps.

anet gives you 5 character slots, you don’t have to spend time defending guardians poor dps when you can just make a warrior and do more.
and no healing isnt useful in pve when you’re doing cof p1, or you’re running with a group who knows everything.
but a lot of people aren’t gonna run with the same pro team.
you may think my meta is late but im not wrong when 90% of a guardians skill/utilities have to do with buffing/healing.

You are wrong though lol.

… Yeah, you are wrong. I play other characters just fine. Guardians don’t have poor DPS. And healing isn’t useful in pretty much every area of the game. You don’t have to know everything, you just have to not suck.

You’re making the claim that just because Guardians have a lot of buff powers thakittenmust make their DPS lag behind, but their weapons actually do have pretty great DPS, especially when buffed. Also: Guardians really only have decent party-heals when traited for it. None of their shouts heal (aside from a small regen on one). Half the things you described Guardians as doing, they can’t even do.

But please, do go ahead and show me an example of how great Warrior DPS is compared to Guardian DPS. It ought to be enlightening.

Your meta is late AND you’re wrong.

Dagraan.2854:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

lets see shout heals, not only does save yourself take all of the conditions you can have it traited to take conditions and heal ppl when you use it.
the dodge roll, the heal skill itself, the shield bubble (it has a second action which heals) almost everything on the staff, the mace, the torch, the focus.
the elite which has a full heal meaning a warrior can go from 1 hp to full.

why is the pro speed running team 4 warriors and a mesmer for timewarp. it be 5 warriors if the mesmer didnt have timewarp.
guardians are poor for dps look at a classes skills and if it has 90% of them having to do with healing/boon giving/ damage mitigation then that class is gonna suck for dps.

Wow you’re behind the meta.

That hasn’t been the optimum teambuild for pve for like… a few months.

and… Guardians have just fine DPS. I’d bother showing you why, but you kinda already showed you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with your 4 Warrior 1 Mes comment.

Please be current with the meta if you’re going to bother making bold declarations about a class.

Healing isn’t useful in PvE and all of the Guardians support options don’t significantly hamper their DPS. In fact, they’re pretty valued in many team comps.

anet gives you 5 character slots, you don’t have to spend time defending guardians poor dps when you can just make a warrior and do more.
and no healing isnt useful in pve when you’re doing cof p1, or you’re running with a group who knows everything.
but a lot of people aren’t gonna run with the same pro team.
you may think my meta is late but im not wrong when 90% of a guardians skill/utilities have to do with buffing/healing.

you are like a full glass of water dude. its waste of time trying to continue to fill it.

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dagraan.2854:

don’t forget it actually heals to, if your playing a guardian dps should never be your main concern because lets be honest every other class who’s skills don’t deal with healing/boosting or damage migation. are going to be doing way more damage than you.

and not to mention a zerker player who doesn’t have to use his heal skill is a zerker doing more damage.

“Every other class” being mesmers, thieves, and eles, I assume. Guardian is very firmly middle-of-the-road in terms of overall DPS output. If you want to heal so badly, play an engie or an elementalist. A tiny bit of regen and a 1.5k burst of healing every 20 seconds is not a healer. An engie heals for triple that in the same period of time just from using his own heal skill, and doesn’t have to give up a thing to do it. That’s not even including the other stuff you can take to burst even more healing if you really want it.

if you think that an ele or an engie is a better healer than a guardian than you have no idea about guardians.
every other class who’s 90% of skills don’t have to deal with damage mitigation or healing/boons giving.
curious how you didn’t include the king of pve which is the warrior, and really the only use mesmers have is portals and timewarp.
guardian may be middle of the road for dps, but their tier 1 for healing and support.
and the longer you can keep the tier 1 dps’r from not having to stop and use his heal skill the more damage they can do. which btw is much more than a guardians.

Maybe you’d like to tell me what skill guardians have that can outheal Healing Turret and Super Elixir, then. Which heals the group 4k and 2.7k respectively, and both remove conditions. Just because guardians have a lot of active defensive skills (protection, aegis, reflects, stability) doesn’t mean you have to build like a healer. Their actual healing (as in green numbers) is actually pretty crap outside of maybe the roll heal.

Also, guardians deal more than warriors with all the same boons. “Tier 1” DPS, as you call it, is mesmer, thief, and elementalist. Everyone else deals roughly the same amount with guardians being the highest among them, although not by a significant amount.

lets see shout heals, not only does save yourself take all of the conditions you can have it traited to take conditions and heal ppl when you use it.
the dodge roll, the heal skill itself, the shield bubble (it has a second action which heals) almost everything on the staff, the mace, the torch, the focus.
the elite which has a full heal meaning a warrior can go from 1 hp to full.

so tell me how 1 healing skill on some engie beats all of a guardian, and if guardians are the same as warriors for dps why are they never picked for speed runs? why is the pro speed running team 4 warriors and a mesmer for timewarp. it be 5 warriors if the mesmer didnt have timewarp.
guardians are poor for dps look at a classes skills and if it has 90% of them having to do with healing/boon giving/ damage mitigation then that class is gonna suck for dps.

not to mention you can be traited to give the regen virtue to other ppl

To anyone reading this, this guy is just wrong, ignore him.

This thread is funny because when I said the exact same thing (guardian DPS > warrior DPS) like three months ago, all of you laughed and were all like “lol no warrior dps clearly better u dum.” And now y’all acting like it was the most obvious thing ever and everyone else who hasn’t caught up is dumb.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Ranger-DPS-in-Dungeons/first

Remember this thread?

I don’t see me in it so I’m cool.

GO ME

So humble as usual guang.

You should see me when I’m drunk.

Using boon duration and a support build with Staff is probably the worst idea anyone has ever had for Guardian aside from AH.

how about mace dps build in pve?

can you make that happen somehow on the forums, Guang? XDD

The support a guardian gives to his party isn’t affected by his gear. Protection always gives 33% reduced damage, Aegis always does the same kitten, Might doesn’t scale from anything, condition removal works as good naked as it does in gear. That is all the support a guardian will ever have to give to his party (also fire fields, which isn’t affected by gear either) so knowing that, why the hell would anyone even use cleric stats over zerker on a support guardian?

Melfice.5091:

The support a guardian gives to his party isn’t affected by his gear. Protection always gives 33% reduced damage, Aegis always does the same kitten, Might doesn’t scale from anything, condition removal works as good naked as it does in gear. That is all the support a guardian will ever have to give to his party (also fire fields, which isn’t affected by gear either) so knowing that, why the hell would anyone even use cleric stats over zerker on a support guardian?

Because Healing Breeze and Orb of Light are super good heals.

Melfice.5091:

The support a guardian gives to his party isn’t affected by his gear. Protection always gives 33% reduced damage, Aegis always does the same kitten, Might doesn’t scale from anything, condition removal works as good naked as it does in gear. That is all the support a guardian will ever have to give to his party (also fire fields, which isn’t affected by gear either) so knowing that, why the hell would anyone even use cleric stats over zerker on a support guardian?

Keyword: knowing, comes from knowledge, which is something most (if not all) bad players lacks of.

Melfice.5091:

The support a guardian gives to his party isn’t affected by his gear. Protection always gives 33% reduced damage, Aegis always does the same kitten, Might doesn’t scale from anything, condition removal works as good naked as it does in gear. That is all the support a guardian will ever have to give to his party (also fire fields, which isn’t affected by gear either) so knowing that, why the hell would anyone even use cleric stats over zerker on a support guardian?

Well there are a few very good reasons for using clerics. First off, gear and traits DO affect boon duration, and the boon duration you have counts towards the boons you apply. Second, support is not just about boons and condition removal. For me, it’s largely about healing power. Healing power is directly affected by gear and the difference is huge between zerk and clerics. If I’m trying to heal my group using a virtue, a dodge or a symbol (writ of the merciful) then we’re talking about a difference of thousands of hit points. Plus, even if you wanna be selfish, more healing power means more survivability for you, which means more time alive to deal damage. I recomend clerics gear with Runes of Altruism or Soldier and Berzerker trinkets. That’s a nice combo.

Entropy.4732:

Melfice.5091:

The support a guardian gives to his party isn’t affected by his gear. Protection always gives 33% reduced damage, Aegis always does the same kitten, Might doesn’t scale from anything, condition removal works as good naked as it does in gear. That is all the support a guardian will ever have to give to his party (also fire fields, which isn’t affected by gear either) so knowing that, why the hell would anyone even use cleric stats over zerker on a support guardian?

Well there are a few very good reasons for using clerics. First off, gear and traits DO affect boon duration, and the boon duration you have counts towards the boons you apply. Second, support is not just about boons and condition removal. For me, it’s largely about healing power. Healing power is directly affected by gear and the difference is huge between zerk and clerics. If I’m trying to heal my group using a virtue, a dodge or a symbol (writ of the merciful) then we’re talking about a difference of thousands of hit points. Plus, even if you wanna be selfish, more healing power means more survivability for you, which means more time alive to deal damage. I recomend clerics gear with Runes of Altruism or Soldier and Berzerker trinkets. That’s a nice combo.

You should play with people that don’t need you to support them, or you should make your friends get better.

I can’t recommend cleric’s gear except -maybe- for keeping a zerg alive in wvw? Maybe?

… I just want someone to validate a use for my pile of exotics x_x;

Cleric gear is a solid choice for bunkering things in pvp. I mean, i’ve got nothing against cleric gear as long it reamins in PvP and WvW, there is no reason to bring it to PvE.