Guild Wars 2

Why I never find a guardian that use Burn besides me?

Seriously, I play burn guardian since the patch that allowed us to play condition builds and all the time I find enemies and Guardians that insult me why I use Burn, why it’s OP, why I’m only a noob to use a op build, that I have to learn to play and more. That happen at 99% of cases when I kill them in 1vs1.

In these days there was frequently the Guardian in the sPvP Daily Win. And it’s a lot of days that I find guardians that insult me why I kill them with my condition build.

The fact is that I’m one of the few (really few) guardians that use a Condition build. I rarely meet another guardian that use Burn, expecially in days with Guardian daily.

Then, if the CondiBurn Guardian Build (not other classes, only Guardian) is OP, why I see only Direct Damage Guardians??
Why I don’t see anywhere that OP guardians with condi build that kills plently of enemies at once as they say??

I’m Champion Paragon, I took the title long time ago, I’m really good to use my guardian (expecially in 1vs1). And I use a build that is basicly Weak against a high dps class like another Guardian with a Direct Damage build, able to clean my burn stacks easy, blind/block my burn skills, CC me and inflict a very high amount of direct damage (expecially why I use carrion, that don’t give me toughness).

If BurnGuardian is OP why I don’t find anyone in game? Expecially in the daily guardian day, a situation where everyone use Always the better build of the class to win more easy.
Is a fact that if there’s a build or a class that is better than another, in the time of 1-2 weeks, you find everyone that want to win easy play that build/class. Then, why there’s Only Direct Damage Guardians in the game? Is hard for me find another condition guardian in sPvP.
Sometimes I’ve fun to try Practice and see everyone use the same class and the same build to win easy for the daily. Then, in a daily with Guardian I Never find a Condition Guardian in Practice that try to win easy with that “OP” build.

Please Stop saying that Burn Guardian is OP why it’s not true!

I don’t sPVP a lot, mostly WvW, and I rarely see Burn guards there either, they’re like unicorns, so my assumption on this, is that Burn guard doesn’t get too much flavor probably because it requires an higher skill cap to nail it, as DD builds are more all-rounders and easier to obtain results with.

Anyone who has decent condi clear and knows how to use it versus a Burn guard will probably have no struggle against one, so my guess is that you’re probably beating players with glass builds and 0 condi clear who also happen to be sore losers.

Maybe it does have a higher skill cap. I’m also guessing some of them get destroyed by Necros, Mesmers and Eles or soemthing.

That being said, people haven’t seen the burn guard featured in a PvP match prominently yet. Once it becomes common place in 1 competitive winning team, you’ll start to see it everywhere.

It have a high skill cap and I’m unable to kill a necro (why he re-transfer back to me all my burn and convert all my boons) and mesmers why they burst me down why I have no toughness or why I’0m not able to hit them with my skills that inflict burn. I can try to inflict aoe burn hitting the clones, but it don’t work against good mesmers.

Really? I see Burn Guard all the time in PvP. Seems like a lot of people I find don’t really know how to effectively play it though, and IMO it’s pretty easily outclassed by a d/d Ele with Blinding Ashes.

Black Box.9312:

Really? I see Burn Guard all the time in PvP. Seems like a lot of people I find don’t really know how to effectively play it though, and IMO it’s pretty easily outclassed by a d/d Ele with Blinding Ashes.

Honestly Ele is near impossible to kill at this point with a burn guard with equal skills. My GM and I would duel every now and then and were pretty even previously, but now I don’t even come close, between the sustain and defenses, unless he screws up on a cleanse or a rotation pretty badly, I lose pretty much every time.

I win frequently against eles, expecially eles without Diamond Skin. They are hard to kill, but if you active your skills in the right moment you can kill them.

Anyway is frequently find guardians that inflict burn because it’s in our virtue, or guardians that use it to increase the damage by a lot, but guardians that really focus on the use of burn is hard to finds.

why i dont play burn guard?hmm lets see,i play dps medi guard with sigils of generosity,burn guard its medium dps with 1 strong condi:burn,so in 1 vs 1 i enjoy fighting burn guards,let them stack 3-4 burns on me pass it back to them and add my weak burning on top of it,usualy drops them very low on hp and drow out all their utility,only prob i had with burn guards is in team fights when i dont see them coming,they drop me in 5 sec :p

Because burning is not op by itself and only really effective against bads. The reason its so powerful on elementalist is its good supplemental damage in addition to a ton of other good stuff an ele gets. A ele has way more goodies then a full burn spec guardian would get. It is really fun against bads though. The majority of Guardians I see in spvp are bunkers, a few medi, and very rarely full burning guards.

I’ve seen 10x more burn guardians now than prepatch. They may be a dime a dozen, but they’re there.

What discourages people is the fact we get outplayed (not necessarily hard countered) all too easily. Take the meta for example – Shout cleansing Bunker Guards, Condi transfering Necros, self sustaining (and cleansing) Eles. Those three classes together means you’ll be hitting like a wet noodle and you’ll never out-sustain them.

Thieves, Engi, Ranger, War, even Mesmers in a group, non 1v1 scenarios, are easy in comparison. It’s team comp that beats us, not necessarily a single class.

They call us OP in solo queue because they’re not on a good team… tell them to bring a necro and/or Guardian next time. If they lose in a 1v1, tell them to l2p. Seriously, we’re so subpar in the 1v1 area compared to power builds that it’s ridiculous. We’re far from being OP.

Concurring with what’s been said: a burn guard absolutely stomps wars, mes, thf, rng, engi and will make them curse you. It wont work on a shout guard, d/d cele ele or a necro with loads of cleanse. I am most amazed at how fast a burn guard can do in a war.

Eles were always hard for burn guards to kill. While burn guards got a boost from the burning change, they also got hurt pretty hard by the mesmer and necro changes. Good mesmers can avoid/cleanse much of the burn and kill the guard quickly. Necros can one-shot burn guards by condition transfer alone. So right now, burn guards need to be careful against all the caster classes.

I have run GS/Sw+T for the longest time. Despite the severe issues with torch 4, it hits ridiculously hard and you can sometimes get off two tosses when traited for it. Those tosses, if they hit, can crit for 10k total. In under 2 seconds.

The burns are a nice bonus, but I don’t rely them.

Silv.9207:

Why I never find a guardian that use Burn besides me?

Seriously, I play burn guardian since the patch that allowed us to play condition builds and all the time I find enemies and Guardians that insult me why I use Burn, why it’s OP, why I’m only a noob to use a op build, that I have to learn to play and more. That happen at 99% of cases when I kill them in 1vs1.

In these days there was frequently the Guardian in the sPvP Daily Win. And it’s a lot of days that I find guardians that insult me why I kill them with my condition build.

The fact is that I’m one of the few (really few) guardians that use a Condition build. I rarely meet another guardian that use Burn, expecially in days with Guardian daily.

Then, if the CondiBurn Guardian Build (not other classes, only Guardian) is OP, why I see only Direct Damage Guardians??
Why I don’t see anywhere that OP guardians with condi build that kills plently of enemies at once as they say??

I’m Champion Paragon, I took the title long time ago, I’m really good to use my guardian (expecially in 1vs1). And I use a build that is basicly Weak against a high dps class like another Guardian with a Direct Damage build, able to clean my burn stacks easy, blind/block my burn skills, CC me and inflict a very high amount of direct damage (expecially why I use carrion, that don’t give me toughness).

If BurnGuardian is OP why I don’t find anyone in game? Expecially in the daily guardian day, a situation where everyone use Always the better build of the class to win more easy.
Is a fact that if there’s a build or a class that is better than another, in the time of 1-2 weeks, you find everyone that want to win easy play that build/class. Then, why there’s Only Direct Damage Guardians in the game? Is hard for me find another condition guardian in sPvP.
Sometimes I’ve fun to try Practice and see everyone use the same class and the same build to win easy for the daily. Then, in a daily with Guardian I Never find a Condition Guardian in Practice that try to win easy with that “OP” build.

Please Stop saying that Burn Guardian is OP why it’s not true!

I play burn guard in spvp, burn guards are currently 3rd highest in pve condi builds. engi. ele, guard, (all 3 of these are reasonable close to each other) and are not that far behind zerker builds. they tend to bring better support then pure damage and are more flexible, dont need to switch traits for different fights, just a weapon here and there and a utility skill here and there.

Saiyan.1704:

I’ve seen 10x more burn guardians now than prepatch. They may be a dime a dozen, but they’re there.

What discourages people is the fact we get outplayed (not necessarily hard countered) all too easily. Take the meta for example – Shout cleansing Bunker Guards, Condi transfering Necros, self sustaining (and cleansing) Eles. Those three classes together means you’ll be hitting like a wet noodle and you’ll never out-sustain them.

Thieves, Engi, Ranger, War, even Mesmers in a group, non 1v1 scenarios, are easy in comparison. It’s team comp that beats us, not necessarily a single class.

They call us OP in solo queue because they’re not on a good team… tell them to bring a necro and/or Guardian next time. If they lose in a 1v1, tell them to l2p. Seriously, we’re so subpar in the 1v1 area compared to power builds that it’s ridiculous. We’re far from being OP.

+1. Exactly this to the letter.. I main Condi guard in pvp and its alot of fun. But when I see the enemy comp heavy on the anti-burn I swap to power cause I don’t want to be a wet noodle .

Your worst nightmare on a condi guard is a competent dd ele in a 1v1 or a bunker shout guard in a team fight. You’re better off just going to a different point cause there is no point of you being there in the fight .

UNLESS

You have a buddy with constant Condi spamming like a dual pistol engi or condi thief or condi necro .. They don’t have to be specced in condi damage but as long as they spam the condis you’re good. Why? Because it will exhaust the enemy condi cleansing and allow your burns to sneak through. It’s about creating a kink in the armor and ripping it apart with heavy burns that sneak through.

It’s alot of fun when it works but you have to understand when you can and cannot be effective as a burn guard.

CC’ always wins the fight. I don’t know, even on my ranger I always enjoy seeing a burning guardian. If you know what you are looking for it is always a free kill. Not bashing, my main is a Guardian. Just saying burning is by no means OP.

burning is OP. its got nothing to do with guardians.

I see burn guardians daily in pvp. Often more than 1

Zatoichi.1049:

burning is OP. its got nothing to do with guardians.

I see burn guardians daily in pvp. Often more than 1

Pretty much this. Burning itself is unbalanced currently and should be toned down, not just Burn Guard specifically.

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

Burning isn’t really that overwhelming. However, certain skills apply multiple stacks of it and you can use some of them in quick succession. If ANet reduced the stacks and increased the durations on the offending skills, it wouldn’t be so bad.

Fight starts you wait 2 sec. find the right spot in the middle of the fight, drop PF Use your teleport and GS SPINN FOR MASSIVE 10 BURNS that TICK for 4,5k dmg.

Hurr durr enemies can cleanse…

Yes in the middle of the fight with other ppl they will see instant 10 stack of burns that each sec makes them closer to death.

If enemy cleanse DONT worry JUST spinn your sword, swap to s/f, and remember to click f1 everytime any enemy dies. poke poke till you have next spinns ready for less burrnig (about 4/5) that ticks only 2k dmg per tick but dont worry ONCE YOUR PF is ready you can again MELT enemies.

Dont worry you wont be focused right away, with Gs and teleport you look like classic power medi guard, you still have shellter and still cannot be killed before you drop atleast 3 spinns.

Basicly your only problem is shoutguard that cleanses ur dumb burning, all other condi cleanses have or too much insane cd or forces enemies out of fight with you since u STACK BURRNING EVERY kitten 3 HIT (did i mention its AOE burning?).
As long as enemies dont have shoutguard you can pretty much kill everyone (since mes mantras are nerfed they cant drop condis all day)

Yes GS is incredibly awesome for consi guards but.. i’ve been having issues with stunspamming mesmers / stunlocking thieves and overall cc efects from other classes to the point where my Whirling Wrath gets interupted the moment I cast it.

I’ve been forced to use scepter+sword for the sake of quicker (and safer) attacks. Using Shield #5 to push people outside PF, to my surprise, works like a charm. I’m able to get an extra 3 burn stacka from that combo.

I really love my potentially high AoE dmg GS but i’ve been frustrated with it lately >.<

If you hit every time, if the enemy don’t block/evade/move/teleport/blind/immune/CCyou/jump (torch skill 4 can be jumped, you know?) and they haven’t anyone to clean conditions, yes, it’s a very powerfull combo.

But if the enemy run away while you spin you can’t hit him more than 3 times, reducing your burn, if he have a block like a warrior shield or a common block that block your torch skill 4 your damage is reduced, and I can continue with more and more examples. And everyone actually have at last a single condi clean skill or skills to reflect back all your burn, some classes have aoe condi clean skills and some classes can become immune/resistant to conditions. If you try to use GS skill 5 to grab the enemy, the enemy can block/blind/evade////// it or have stability and you fail.

Yes, on the paper the Guardian condition is the best of all, can stack 15 burn and deal 5k/sec (more or less 3 stack of burn on a condi build inflict 1k/sec why a single stack deal a little more than 300/sec, not 450 like you said, instead if you’re full of might and stack of condition sigil, that’s more or less impossible ina spvp situation unless you have a very good theorcrafted team), can teleport, block, blind, survive, inflict good direct damage and AoE kill everyone only by itself with 5k/sec of burn damage in the mid. (but if you active torch skill 4 is a single target skill and if you don’t active it is hard to find someone that don’t run away from you and let you stack your burn)

But… ehy… how many times you have the chance to do a perfect combo against someone?

The only class that let me do my best condi damage is the necro, that use it’s skills to reflect my burn back XD

And if you compare it to classes like condi ranger condi mesmers and condi engi, that don’t use burn or use it with low stacks, the difference isn’t so high.

GS is a good weapon but it’s not the best for a condi build why it’s AoE but it’s hard to hit a enemy and slow in the AA. With direct damage build half of the GS 2 can deal a good damage, with a condi build is better the sword skill 3, that hit a single target but hit in a range. You teleport, active it and if the enemy try to run away you still hit him because your attack is ranged (a bad ranged attack but still ranged).

At the end:
If you find someone that really let you do all your combos, don’t clean burn and let you kill him with 5k/sec of burn damage you can be shure that it’s a very very very very very very very bad player with a very bad build. If you can do it in a fight in the mid is because the enemy team stay alla stacked, making you able to kill them at once, with or without burn. And yes, it’s also a bad team of bad players.

90% of times there’s no one that let you stack more than 7-9 burn and frequently he clean/convert/transfer it out quickly.

Burn Guardian is more a funny build than a efficent build. It’s good, burn is good, but the cooldowns make you unable to inflict good condition damage after you do your rotations, leaving you without good chances to inflict condition damage.
It’s highly countered or outnumbered by traits and active/passive skills.

On the paper is the best, but if you play against someone that know how to play and how to fight a condi guardian or against soneone with a good build against condition classes you have to be very good to win.

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

Black Box.9312:

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

It doesn’t need a nerd .. It needs a buff .. What you should be asking for is limit burning access on eles and engis since they have access to many other condis. But to complain about a guard causing burning when it’s literally the only damaging condi he can inflict? That’s just absurd.

I’ll say it once again .. If burn is to be nerfed (I don’t think it should) condi guardian burn needs to be buffed to compensate to the loss on the nerf. ITS OUR ONLY kitten CONDI ! I mean have you seen how Appel a condi ranger, condi engi, condi necro can burst people with condi bombs and how FAST they can reapply them ?? What’s with the a about burning now.

If it’s to be nerfed, the guardian needs to be compensated by making virtue of justice proc apply more stacks not just duration as duration isn’t useful in pvp as stacks are.

Seems kind of stupid to complain about a burn condi guard spec when it isn’t even considered meta for pvp and its damage is lower than a phys guard spec for pve.

The only thing burn guard really excels at is its ability to wreck an enemy team that stacks on you and doesn’t have cleanses. In pve it seems to excel at taking down trash.

x indigo x.6981:

Black Box.9312:

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

It doesn’t need a nerd .. It needs a buff .. What you should be asking for is limit burning access on eles and engis since they have access to many other condis. But to complain about a guard causing burning when it’s literally the only damaging condi he can inflict? That’s just absurd.

I’ll say it once again .. If burn is to be nerfed (I don’t think it should) condi guardian burn needs to be buffed to compensate to the loss on the nerf. ITS OUR ONLY kitten CONDI ! I mean have you seen how Appel a condi ranger, condi engi, condi necro can burst people with condi bombs and how FAST they can reapply them ?? What’s with the a about burning now.

If it’s to be nerfed, the guardian needs to be compensated by making virtue of justice proc apply more stacks not just duration as duration isn’t useful in pvp as stacks are.

Burn Guardian will still have Amplified Wrath, which will partially make up for the lack of other DPS conditions. Since Burn Guard relies on carrion gear anyway, you don’t really need anything else because you should have sufficient power to make up for the rest of it.

A few people are calling for buffs, and a few are calling for nerfs. Sounds like we should keep it exactly how it is.

Silv.9207:

If you hit every time, if the enemy don’t block/evade/move/teleport/blind/immune/CCyou/jump (torch skill 4 can be jumped, you know?) and they haven’t anyone to clean conditions, yes, it’s a very powerfull combo.

But if the enemy run away while you spin you can’t hit him more than 3 times, reducing your burn, if he have a block like a warrior shield or a common block that block your torch skill 4 your damage is reduced, and I can continue with more and more examples. And everyone actually have at last a single condi clean skill or skills to reflect back all your burn, some classes have aoe condi clean skills and some classes can become immune/resistant to conditions. If you try to use GS skill 5 to grab the enemy, the enemy can block/blind/evade////// it or have stability and you fail.

Yes, on the paper the Guardian condition is the best of all, can stack 15 burn and deal 5k/sec (more or less 3 stack of burn on a condi build inflict 1k/sec why a single stack deal a little more than 300/sec, not 450 like you said, instead if you’re full of might and stack of condition sigil, that’s more or less impossible ina spvp situation unless you have a very good theorcrafted team), can teleport, block, blind, survive, inflict good direct damage and AoE kill everyone only by itself with 5k/sec of burn damage in the mid. (but if you active torch skill 4 is a single target skill and if you don’t active it is hard to find someone that don’t run away from you and let you stack your burn)

But… ehy… how many times you have the chance to do a perfect combo against someone?

The only class that let me do my best condi damage is the necro, that use it’s skills to reflect my burn back XD

And if you compare it to classes like condi ranger condi mesmers and condi engi, that don’t use burn or use it with low stacks, the difference isn’t so high.

GS is a good weapon but it’s not the best for a condi build why it’s AoE but it’s hard to hit a enemy and slow in the AA. With direct damage build half of the GS 2 can deal a good damage, with a condi build is better the sword skill 3, that hit a single target but hit in a range. You teleport, active it and if the enemy try to run away you still hit him because your attack is ranged (a bad ranged attack but still ranged).

At the end:
If you find someone that really let you do all your combos, don’t clean burn and let you kill him with 5k/sec of burn damage you can be shure that it’s a very very very very very very very bad player with a very bad build. If you can do it in a fight in the mid is because the enemy team stay alla stacked, making you able to kill them at once, with or without burn. And yes, it’s also a bad team of bad players.

90% of times there’s no one that let you stack more than 7-9 burn and frequently he clean/convert/transfer it out quickly.

Burn Guardian is more a funny build than a efficent build. It’s good, burn is good, but the cooldowns make you unable to inflict good condition damage after you do your rotations, leaving you without good chances to inflict condition damage.
It’s highly countered or outnumbered by traits and active/passive skills.

On the paper is the best, but if you play against someone that know how to play and how to fight a condi guardian or against soneone with a good build against condition classes you have to be very good to win.

Yes every skill can be evaded, most can be rupted but still why you expect that the moment YOU ENGAGE as burnguard every enemy will look at u, NO they are already 2 sec in fight, they choosen thier targets and IT WILL take insane reflexes to evade while chasing when guard can just TELEPORT WHILE spinning for 100% hitchance,
1 cleanse DONT make me laugh they cleanse 5k burn after 2 ticks, u still expect ppl fighting to have 1 cleanse ready for you anytime, you expect them to know ur burngruard before even fight starts so they can prepare, NO mate they wont be prepared for ur dumb burst 2 ppl will evade 3 ppl will get 10k dmg from burn and cleanse, still it doesnt change fact that you dealed 30k dmg to 3ppl in matter of secs and forced evades that is a big deal in teamfights.
U force enemy to binary system that or they rupt/evade or they DIE.
Tell me which other class can do such thing. Who can force with pure aoe pressure enemies to run or die. And dont even try to say that you cant do much after u fail 2 and 5th skill, cuz pretty much you can still pressure enemy with 1200 range on scepter massive blocks etc.

Mefiq.7039:

Yes every skill can be evaded, most can be rupted but still why you expect that the moment YOU ENGAGE as burnguard every enemy will look at u, NO they are already 2 sec in fight, they choosen thier targets and IT WILL take insane reflexes to evade while chasing when guard can just TELEPORT WHILE spinning for 100% hitchance,
1 cleanse DONT make me laugh they cleanse 5k burn after 2 ticks, u still expect ppl fighting to have 1 cleanse ready for you anytime, you expect them to know ur burngruard before even fight starts so they can prepare, NO mate they wont be prepared for ur dumb burst 2 ppl will evade 3 ppl will get 10k dmg from burn and cleanse, still it doesnt change fact that you dealed 30k dmg to 3ppl in matter of secs and forced evades that is a big deal in teamfights.
U force enemy to binary system that or they rupt/evade or they DIE.
Tell me which other class can do such thing. Who can force with pure aoe pressure enemies to run or die. And dont even try to say that you cant do much after u fail 2 and 5th skill, cuz pretty much you can still pressure enemy with 1200 range on scepter massive blocks etc.

First of all.. lets base our inquiries on TPvP Facts rather than bad Solo players and ultimately bad team compositions.

The moment you engage the team will look at you
Actually, yes. Burn Guardians are DPS some-what-glassy build types. Our weaknesses are heavy stuns/immob/knockdown and overall CC effects. If we trait for Indomitable Courage, then we lost ALL AoE burn effects from GS and are completely reliant on JI or PF for AoE burn damages. Those who don’t target the Guardian will risk wasting their condi cleanses and ultimately risk getting DPS down themselves. It’s equivalent to not targeting Power Guard’s instant 5-7k AoE damages… No, we often DO get targeted down first. Power/glassy builds are Always listed as top priority, much like a zerker/marauder Thief or Mesmer who +1’s a fight.

You are overestimating the prowess of our Whirl + Judge’s Intervention. I’ll be lucky to pull off a full Whirling Wrath in a group even after I teleport in. My Whirling Wrath has been interrupted so many times, I’ve looked into other, faster, weapon variants for burn procs! To say a person can’t dodge a full teleported WW is an utter joke – these people need a big dose of l2p.

Again, you’re assuming people immediately eats our AoE damages. In high competitive play (something you don’t participate in) I rarely get 10+ burn stacks. On average I get 5 aoe burn stacks every 5 seconds in a group. Best case scenario is I offered enough damage to down a person and cleave their bodies for AoE damages, again, assuming my WW doesn’t get interrupted.

Go against any Condi Transfering Necro, Self Sustaining Ele, Shout Cleansing Guardian comp and you’ll quickly realize this thread’s validity. We hit like a wet noodle in competitive zerg fests and we’re not even strong 1v1 contenders like other classes. There are so many Soft Counters and flaws to Burn Guardians that we have a better argument receiving a Buffing rather than a Nerf….

Saiyan.1704:

HURR DURR Burnguard is not op cuz it can be countred by bunkerguard and necro, ofc when necro makes u eat ur own burn it must be pretty fun for him.

Ofc burn guards are kitten in 5v5 team vs team cuz they will have someone cleansing each sec. Problem starts when you arent going 5v5 stack cuz theres still yoloQ and other modes that gets you random enemies vs random teammates, it must be fun for you to see that AS LONG as enemy dont have shoutguard or necro that will focus only on your kitten you will pretty much wreck every teamfight.

5 burns every 5 sec aoe on every enemy near you is like forcing enemies to cleanse every 5 sec cuz ur starting to hurt them or like 1,4k dmg EACH F SEC.
They will cleanse once mby twice, 3rd stack of 5 burns BOOM they are dead, why? Cuz u ALONE are forcing enemies to cleanse and to watch condi stacks on themselfs every 5 sec while ur team is STILL killing them.

To pull off Whirl + Judge’s Intervention you just need initial whirl to stack burns, dont bullkitten me that it can be easily evaded. As long as your not moron that is so full of himself cuz of insane burns, you wont telegraph it so easily, it is like saying that you can evade steal that is instant teleport to you, and i can tell you that unless thief/guard is not trying to go in like moron there is no way but lucky roll to evade burst. Ofc you can roll afterwards Judge hits you for 1k and you get about 3-5stacks of burn (that tick your kitten while you roll). I never expect perfect scenarios that when i spin on guard i will not get rupted, i simply dont need to care when im burnguard. As long as enemies dont have aoe cleanse i can spin get rupted, spin again if it hits pull enemies in PF, enemy Melee enemies that want to focus me will get in my PF get another burnstacks and i will simply start spamming blocks till i get another whirl back. Repeat repeat till enemy is dead. Cant be any dumber…

Thing is as burnguard i dont need to even care, as long as i drop aoe as long as i start focusing enemies as they try to not clump up i will get my insnsane burns on and kill them. If not i already “burned” thier CC and Cleanses that makes any other condi/powerspike player in my team 2x more thretening.

Its not like im agains idea of condi guard, but still BURNING right now gets rly insane with few stacks, condi dmg always was the " slow and steady" to reward players that can plan ahead and control thier enemies, it was hard and sometimes not optimal but still the idea of droping 10burn combo on anyone and melting them in fight with CONDITION DMG in 2 sec gets rly insane, even POWER SPIKE thief cant melt you in 2 sec, he will need to land PERFECT BACKSTAB for you to even aknowledge that hes hitting you then he will need to pressure you till your low hp and spam heartseeker, i assure you that even if u wont do kitten you wont get killed in 2 sec. With Bguard on the other hand if he lands 1 full como not only you are dead but most of your teammates, you rly dont see problem with that? Like AOE Rampage every 5 sec.

Do you even Guardian?

Steal is an instant attack with 0 cast time
Whirling Wrath is a 3/4 cast time.

If you like to further compare apples to oranges you will realize that one is red and the other is… you guessed it, Orange.

So because there’s ONLY 3 other classes who can potentially soft counter guardians in group fights then that makes us OP? Do we really need more soft counters in zerg scenarios? Do you not realize that nearly every class can demolish guardians in 1v1 scenarios?
Mesmer and Eles perform tremendously in All aspects of Conquest. 1v1 and zergy 5v5. To top it off, they have maybe 1 soft counter to them…. each other… or a Necro who doesn’t perform as well in all aspect of Conquest.

Guardians performance is great only if the stars align. Burning is not insane and it’s definitely not OP. Comparing Rampage to Burn Guardians is an utter joke.. one is Tournament Meta while the other isn’t.

Saiyan.1704:

Guardians performance is great only if the stars align. Burning is not insane and it’s definitely not OP. Comparing Rampage to Burn Guardians is an utter joke.. one is Tournament Meta while the other isn’t.

You’ve spoken the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

It’s very powerful ONLY if the stars align. Outside of that, it’s easily countered and pressured. I pretty much run away from 1v1 with eles, guardians, and necros. Why ? not becuase their op (up for a different discussion) but rather cause they EASILY and STUPIDLY counter my burn guard.

Our potential as burn guards only hits maximum when the STARS ALIGN (ie. these conditions need to be met for the SO CALLED op burn to occur: group fight, enemies clustered, lack of guardian bunker, no resistance buff on enemies, guard burst is off cooldown, and no CC is on the way to interrupt the WW) … ANY of these conditions not met and you’ll see the DPS potential of a burning guardian diminish significantly.

Burn guards are just like power medi guards in survivablity. Scratch that.. they’re even LESS that power medi cuard in survivablity. We have to give up condi clear on f2 and stability on f3. AND most likely give up one meditation for Purging Flames. That leaves us with 2 medis for heal instead of 3 and with SIGNIFICANT condi clearing loss. We survive worse than power medi due to these facts.

The stars don’t align often in team fights. If they did, you’d see burn meta dominating but it’s not . It’s less survivable and much less effective against premade teams. Sure it’s fun in solo queue but can’t you say the same thing about qq mesmers that one shot people from full health to 0 ? or condi theives that unload and have the freedom to disengage whenever they choose like it ? guards can’t peel/disengage easily. They tend to go in deep and if the stars don’t align, they get PUNISHED for it.

All or nothing.. that’s the way of the guardian babe!

Mefiq, you speak like you’ve try the burning guardian against some very noob pugs with horrible builds that don’t cooperate with each other and stack all near you giving you no damage and letting you destroy them with your “perfect and powerfull” combo.
And you speak also like you can make that combo every 2 seconds, while you’re talking about ww that have 10 sec CD, BB that have 30 sec CD, JI that have 36 sec CD and PP that have 28 sec CD. And like the enemy still stay all stacked all the time, granting you the chance to use your skills at the best without any problem. And like they don’t even ever CC or attack you, making you never in need to defend or take the range.

If your enemy team is composed by a shouting guardian, a ele, a warrior, a thief and necro you obtain that result: You active PF in the mid, use GS skill 5, grab the enemies on your PF inflicting 3 burn, active JI and ww. You obtain: thief stealth and backroll/teleport away (if he don’t daze you with the pistol), ele is immune to your condition, guardian weaponswap and clean your burn (and some warriors start a fight where there’s a guardian with Berserker Stance up to prevent all the fire damage, then you give no damage to him) , necro transfert back your 10 stack of burn and guardian clean all the remaining burn stacks with a single shout.
Total damage on 5 enemies: 2-3.5k on the thief (3 sec in stealth to clean burn or waiting for the shout of the guardian), 0 damage on the ele why have diamond skin (or he clean it all with cantrip or evade with mist), 0-1-2k on the warrior (depending if he swap it’s weapon immediatly or not and if he active BS before or in the mid of your combo, or wait for the guardian shout), 2-3k on the necro and then 3k/sec to you why he transfert back all your burn, 0.5-2k on the guardian depending while he active the shouts and how much shouts he active.
Total max damage up 5 good enemies: 10.5k of burn damage. 11 to make we happy.

A GS 5-2 combo with a direct damage marauder build:
Active the skill 5 and grab your enemyes to you, then active your perfect invincible alwaykittenting Whirling Wrath. In 3/4 sec you deal 8k to the thief, 6-8k to warrior, 8k to ele, 4k on guardian (bunker?) and 8k on necro. Without chance to be evaded, why all we know that WW is the best skill of the game, right?
Total damage in 3/4 of a sec: 40k.

Now… where exactly is the OP ability of the Burn Guardian, against a good team?

At they’re top, if you deal 10 stack of burn that last for 3-5 seconds your damage is more or less of 9k to each enemy, if they don’t clean/immune/transfert it with any skill, making you deal 45k in 5 seconds against some ignorant noobs with bad builds and not a single condition clean skill.

40k in 3/4 of a sec (3k of burn damage?) against 45k in 5 seconds ( 4k of direct damage?).

Yes, the Burn Guardian is really really Op, boy. Really OP!

Saiyan.1704:

Do you even Guardian?

Steal is an instant attack with 0 cast time
Whirling Wrath is a 3/4 cast time.

If you like to further compare apples to oranges you will realize that one is red and the other is… you guessed it, Orange.

I dont know if you are serious or just dumb, Start your WW and after 3/4 cast time use JI CUZ IT DOESNT BREAK ur animation (like steal) both are instant and both guarantee hit on enemy

Silv enemy team doesnt need to be bad, as long as (Previously stated by Saiyan) you stack 5 stack of burn(about 1,4k dmg each tick) each 5 sec aoe(that is not your " BEST SCENARIO WHEN STARS ARE ON YOUR SIDE") You still dish out insane dmg, way more than any other non rampage enemy. You all say that it doesnt work often its not optimal ETC, yet you play this build… Why? Cuz it DOMINATES enemies that blink or dont pay attention for 1 sec. You guys love to see enemies that cant do kitten about fact that even if they cleanse they will still get burn, if not 2 sec kill it will be 10 sec kill. Dont say that evey class can 1v1 burnguard, YES i can also win duel as S/D thief, that doesnt change fact that i need to be 100000x better than my enemy to win with this build. Just spamming around burns is enough to make your enemy try his best cuz its totatly brainless build that needs real skills to counter.

Hahahahaahahahaha you’re a THIEF!!!!

Now I know everything.
That’s why you think that burning guardian is OP!
Hahahahaha XD

Yes: a thief Can’t kill a burning guardian (a good thief can but have to be very skilled and don’t miss a hit). You haven’t good condi clean skills and if you face a guardian in 1vs1 or 2vs2 you probably drop dead in 5 seconds why you have 11k of hp and not a single good skill to clean conditions (the teleport skill clean 3 conditions but I’ve never see a common thief use it to clean my burn. You can try, it’s a very good skill).
Thief is really weak against guardians and against conditions. Mix the two into a condition guardian and you find your nemesis.

It’s a Build that you can’t kill. Surrender to the truth and leave happy. You can’t win in every 1vs1 with every classes and builds, right? Your words!

But a Build that you can’t kill isn’t a OP Build. I can’t kill a necro with my condi guard but if I take a mesmer I can kill every necro on my way.
If you use a necro you can kill every burning guardian in the game. Try it ;-)

I don’t play burning guardian why it “dominate” the enemies, or you will see ALL guardians play it.
Actually is Direct Damage Guardian Build that “dominate” the enemies, not condition guardian.

If you use JI while you’re using WW it DON’T break your animation or your damage, simply move you in another place. It’s the same trick that use thiefs to stomp or eles for hit with the earth dagger skill 5 while a enemy try to flee.

P.s. how can I stack 5 burn every 5 sec AoE? Really, I don’t know a similar skill O_O
If you’re talking about Zealot’s Flame (not actibated, the active skill is Zealot’s Fire) it can stack 3 burn in 3 seconds in a range of 180, that’s a melee range. Frequently useless unless you don’t active the skill to inflict 3 burn on the enemy by range. It’s given also by a trait, but if you add it you have to stay 6 sec in a melee range to inflict 6 burn every 12 sec. It’s good, but it will never happen, unless you’re really fighting a noob. And torch is at 90% combined with scepter, that’s a ranged weapon, making that strategy lesser viable than before. And almost all classes have a way to play ranged if you start to set yourself in fire, preventing all your damage.

by AA with scepter I can stack 1 burn every 1.5 sec. It’s more or less 5 stack every 7.5 seconds.
But you’re talking about 5 stack at the same time, right? What kind of skill is that? I want to have it!
And with GS is even hardly to stack it with AA (it’s animation make it take longer to hit than 1/2 sec), and skill 2 stack only 2 burn every 10 seconds.
With sword I can stack on the enemy a lot of stack, but not more than 2-3 at the same time, frequently not more than 2 at the same time.

If you’re plaiyng a thief and face a burning guardian you have really to be a great thief to win (I’ve a friend that win against condi guardian with it’s thief, but he’s a beast).
How can face your nemesy, a class that have everything that counter all your skills (defensive skills, immunity, block, condition damage, teleport and leap), and pretend to win easy like against other classes?
If I face in 1vs1 or 2vs2 a necro I know that I’ve to hope that he has not it’s DS charged or I’m really dead in 10-15 seconds without a single chance (if he’s a good or mediocre necro) why he have a very high damage and can eat and send back all my burn, killing me with my same burn stacks. But I don’t pretend to kill him. He totally counter me, ok, I lose against him, I try to focus and fight against another class, that’s all.

We have only to spam burn, but you have also only to active the venom, hide, teleport (or do both as one with stealth), quickness, backstab, AA (and skill 2 if you want) and the enemy is more or less dead. And if the enemy isn’t dead active the teleport and stealth back to prepare your next attack. Expecially in team fight while I’m not focusing you or I’ve totally not noticed you why you’re in stealth.
The thief is much more dangerous than a burning guardian in situations like that.

You’ve mentioned Rampage. It’s the warrior skill or the amulet? Why if you’re talking about the amulet, that guardian will be dead in more or less 5 seconds? And If you’re talking about the warrior’s rampage, it’s a powerfull elite, not all the class.
The guardian condition build have lesser defensive skills and traits than the direct damage one, making us lesser defensive. That’s why we play frequently in Carrion or Rabid, to obtain a little more vitality or toughness and survive better.

About classes that kill you if you don’t pay attention for a second… you play thief, right? Have you ever try to don’t pay attention to a thief? It’s your work, guy, you know that if someone don’t notice you you can kill him easy! (or easuer, taking the first hit)
Have you ever try to don’t pay attention to a mesmer? Or a ranger with LB? or a fresh air ele? or a necro in DS? You will drop dead more quickly than against a burning guardian.

When burning guardian will dominate the world you will see only burning guardians, all the time. I actually see 90% direct damage and support. Then, it’s not the best build for a guardian. Only a good one that some players like to use instead of the classic two. Nothing more.

At the end I repeat:
I don’t play that build why it “DOMINATE” enemies but why I like that build, I like the guardian and I like condition damage and I don’t care of the lesser efficence of my build why I want to have Fun in that game playing my Favorite Build on my Favorite Class. And I think that it’s the same for my guardian comrades.

Nice one Silv!

I love how players QQ so much when they encounter a class that hard counters them. In an ideal world every class should be able to hard counter a couple classes and BE hard countered by a couple classes. If there was a class that could not be hard countered then thats all you would see in PvP since you only need a level 2 toon to do it.

Silv.9207:

by AA with scepter I can stack 1 burn every 1.5 sec. It’s more or less 5 stack every 7.5 seconds.
But you’re talking about 5 stack at the same time, right? What kind of skill is that? I want to have it!
And with GS is even hardly to stack it with AA (it’s animation make it take longer to hit than 1/2 sec), and skill 2 stack only 2 burn every 10 seconds.
With sword I can stack on the enemy a lot of stack, but not more than 2-3 at the same time, frequently not more than 2 at the same time.

Sword can maintain 4-5 AoE burns with only its auto-attack chain if you take the Supreme Justice trait and Air+Fire/Blood sigils. RHS and good Fury uptime are important to ensure that the sigils proc consistently. This isn’t part of the “meta” burn build that’s being discussed in this thread and others, but it’s possible to achieve it. I like it a lot better than the WW/JI/PF version because it’s not as dependent on an all-or-nothing burst that fizzles after a single Shout cleanse.

That said, the fact that Burn Guardian still hasn’t made any headway in the competitive scene after all this time makes it seem like an odd thing to nerf. If they nerf burning as a whole, I’m hoping that they’ll compensate the Guardian somehow so that the build doesn’t fall out of play completely. Buffing the damage bonus from Amplified Wrath and maybe (finally) making improvements to the Sword and Scepter seem like good ways to keep Burn Guardians relevant while also helping out Power Medi builds, which have lost ground recently compared to other professions.

Just like thief cries over guardian (burn or power ) , burn guard cries over eles, necros, and other guards. It’s the circle of life .. you can’t be king under the mountain .. well .. unless you’re a qq mesmer .. :P

Mefiq.7039:

Start your WW and after 3/4 cast time use JI CUZ IT DOESNT BREAK ur animation (like steal) both are instant and both guarantee hit on enemy

Make a Guardian.
Whirl a golem
Witness all those white damage show up one after the other. You can practically count the hits.

You sir, are an arrogant fool who has no idea what you’re talking about. Go back to your own forums Thief, you’re drunk.

Just killed a thief in spvp using my burn guard. Started talking kitten in chat afterwards.

Guess that’s what this thread is about.

Silv.9207:

It have a high skill cap and I’m unable to kill a necro (why he re-transfer back to me all my burn and convert all my boons) and mesmers why they burst me down why I have no toughness or why I’0m not able to hit them with my skills that inflict burn. I can try to inflict aoe burn hitting the clones, but it don’t work against good mesmers.

^this is the reason.

I play a signet necro and pray for a condi guard to show up… but few do. I guess being squishy and totally hard countered by fairly common professions (necros, mesmers, elementalists) isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

Same reason i don’t play a condi necro, btw. I tried, run into an elementalist that cleansed my conditions faster than i could apply them, and decided i can’t just run around in a build that is completely useless depending on which foe you run into.

Hard counters hard counters, I can see that Silv knows nothing about thief, by far if THIEF DOESNT want to fight there is no way for burnguard to ever kill him, noobs says that its 60 sec condi clean but as long as thief restealths every 3 sec he can cleanse 2 condis every 3 sec that is enough to not die from burn guard, i know noobies cant play well i know when noob dont know how to play they switch from thief to something that requires less thinking like burnguards. I know u guys like your burns and dmg you deal, aoe teamfight pressure you have, thats the strongpoint of burnguard, whats a problem is this class itself with this build is EASY as kitten and rly hard to deal with even with mentioned “HARD COUNTER OMG SO HARD TO WIN VS” necro. Necro drops signet too early you will burn him alive in his own DeathShround. Why Cuz necro dont rly have good condi cleanse, ofc they can controll your buffs and apply condis like crazy. but once signet is off you can drop your combo for the win.
I play every class simply with your dumb “hardcounter way of thinking” I started as Thief so i know this class the best. When i see something stomping me on any class i go to that class recreate thier build and try to see weakpoints. Problem with guards is that even if they spec for dmg they still have insane ways to stay alive/be support/annoy enemy. I also see that some builds requre less skill and thinking than others to get same results (like brain dead trap ranger). You can say u like burnguard but please dont go ahead and try to convice ppl that it is so hard to play, with burn buffed burnguards can often dish out more dmg than any “power burst” build in the game. Tone down burning dmg a kittenange thier length so it wont spike and start be “real condition dmg” and im more than happy.
And for real stop this Thief hate, only cuz you guys dont need to use brain to win vs thief of your lvl doesnt mean there arent thiefs that cant stomp your kitten .
Also rethink this whole “hardcounter class” bullkitten. There are many classes in this game right now that dont hardcounter kitten. Only when we have something that is insanely op we are starting to find a way to win vs something that kills us easily, same way i wrote before about shield warriors and dumbfire, it was OP so the build countering it get created, guard and ele is so strong? BOOOM WE HAVE NECRO NOW.
Thiefs used to be good vs Mesmers but everyone know the state of todays game.

As a Mesmer main, I see two Guardians:

1) Burn
2) Staff bunker

When I saw a Guardian yesterday apply 9 stacks of burning that was ticking for 3444, I could do nothing but try to pop stealths and see if I could get Regeneration. But needless to say, I literally melted.

For tournament play coming up, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the return of the bunker Guardian. For everything else, I see burn Guardians running around setting people on fire.