Guild Wars 2

Wow, patch day again and im more worried than ever. They speak of a retaliation nerf (change?), warriors boasting about guardians beeing “fodder” for them now with unblockable attacks, thiefs beeing able to take our boons? Shut down our entire class mecanic? But the thing that bugs me the most is that our support becomes a hinderence for a team facing said warrior and thief, our positive becomes a negative.

How much do you guys think this will affect Guardians in WvWvW and tPvP? Will teams opt out of a guardian because the boons will be dangerous to actually recieve? Or am i blowing things out of proportion? Necros allready have the capability to “shut” us down boon wise, but i dont know. They have also mentioned Epidemic and Corrupt boon beeing unblockable but dodgeable over on their forum, thats yet another “indirect” nerf to us.

I hope this wont break my guardian in WvWvW / tPvP

You know, what kitten es me off the most is that they completely nerf our survivability for larger group play in WvW, yet gave us nothing in terms of Escapability / Mobility.

It was bad enough we were one of the slowest classes out there and w/ one of the lowest HP Pools… but now they’ve taken away our defense too.

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Might as well leave the “first in” for Ele’s…. right, an ele going in before a Guardian and living longer than a Heavy Armor Class… what a bad nightmare.

The talk about Guardians being Strong w/ their Boons and Defense, and that that’s how they want them to be… but to fell pressure when they don’t have those boons and defenses…. well, the just took them all away.

Thats the thing that worries me to no end, since our boons is actually our class mecanic (the way i see it anyways) and we could survive in the frontlines with blocks and invulnerabilities, strip that from us and we are, as someone else said, a weaker version of a warrior with blue flames. From my point of view “unblockable” shouldnt penetrate invulnerability, but things like aegis should absolutely be ignored by said attacks.

Yeah not sure about the whole retal thing… it is only OP if it is AOE, so why dont they only let you take retal once per attack? I have never felt like I could let a 100b warrior sit on me just b/c I had retal up, not even close.

Guards being forced back toward meditation builds again…

They said they’ll make traits more viable or something of the sort to compensate and make sure the boon hate mechanics and such don’t hurt the guardians too much. At least, be glad that you’re not eles, lol.

I also agree that warriors needed the help and i support the changes for that class!

The unblockable attacks on warriors is only available by going a full 30 in the discipline tree from what I understand, and only affects the 1st 3 attacks when the signet is activated. As is the boon hate dps add-on, so it’s a super specific trait line add on, which isn’t going to be a game breaker in the least. Thieves will be able to steal boon via sword / dagger wield style, so that also will change up a lot of the d/p or d/d thieves running around. These changes aren’t game breaking in the least.

Amins.3710:

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Last I checked, Warriors we’re supposed to be the ones opening the battle, IIRC.

Doesn’t matter if they nerf retaliation because its already useless it cant get more useless. It was good during beta but what happens? a trait with a bug that causes it to last as long as 1 min get nerfed so it only last 3 seconds later the bug fixed then they increase the cd the retaliation skill on greatsword and decrease all retaliation skills to 3 seconds , and for what reason? with 2k power this hit for 360~ thats nothing. They put retaliation in all skills then they do this. I would gladly trade all the retaliation boons for 15 seconds of a useful boon instead or changed it back to how it was during beta.

wookie.8934:

Amins.3710:

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Last I checked, Warriors we’re supposed to be the ones opening the battle, IIRC.

No they were suppose to both charge into the front lines. Anet said it themselves, they gave Guardian shadow step skills and not escape skills because they want them to teleport to the target and expected to fight there.

With that being said, in the video the devs were cautious to nerf guardian because of these changes. In fact, because of the new mechanics they expect guardian to move upward in the future.

The biggest mistake they made in the class design imo is designing them around boons. Their low hp pool and lack of burst damage is because of this fact. Its a problem because boons aren’t exclusive to guardian. Everyone has them!

I’m more than a little annoyed by this nerf-by-default. It’s what the community always asks for “don’t nerf us, buff everybody else”, but it’s still absolutely infuriating, particularly as we’ve been specifically victimised by the devs.

I will see how it plays out, but I already struggle in combat because I have to spec PVT due to;

1. ridiculously low base HPs, and,
2. not wanting to force my allies to waste time rezzing me constantly in WvW.

I expect to get facerolled constantly rather than being able to escape sometimes.

What’s the point in AEGIS if everything can bypass it?

I dunno, what’s the point of warrior burst damage if a guardian can block most all of it with almost no effort? If this turns out to be OP, maybe it overdue for guardians to spend a little bit of time on the other side of balance to appreciate what they had before. All you can do is wait and see what happens and use the dodge keys a little more in the meantime.

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

Amins.3710:

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

I suppose we’ll discover how things play out, which is what I’ve been saying across multiple threads. I’m hoping this is beneficial for warriors. Guardians have been high up on the chain of fighting others for some time, so I can’t really feel any sympathy if there’s a month of weakness for them between now and the next patch. It’s part of balancing and maybe it’s guardians’ turn to feel the burn.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

That must be why the guardians in WvW can frequently tank and recover from absurd amounts of warrior attacks plus five other people beating on them. Dunno. I see similar arguments from plenty of guardians and yet the actual effects in game are obvious. I can’t really be kitten to get into some petty theory debate with someone on an internet forum who is ultimately just going to resort to “L2P”; that’s always how things go on these forums. We’re just going to have to play the patch and actually see. Not to be rude, but I feel that I saved us some time. Have a good day.

Amins.3710:

You know, what kitten es me off the most is that they completely nerf our survivability for larger group play in WvW, yet gave us nothing in terms of Escapability / Mobility.

It was bad enough we were one of the slowest classes out there and w/ one of the lowest HP Pools… but now they’ve taken away our defense too.

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Might as well leave the “first in” for Ele’s…. right, an ele going in before a Guardian and living longer than a Heavy Armor Class… what a bad nightmare.

The talk about Guardians being Strong w/ their Boons and Defense, and that that’s how they want them to be… but to fell pressure when they don’t have those boons and defenses…. well, the just took them all away.

LOL. but… you said guardians are great. iam just a noob that doesnt understand how to play it.

But as soon as they hint about making boons into a possible Disadvantage.
You come out spitting on the floor and looking angry…

So, Basicaly you agree to what i have said all along. Guardians arent guardians..
they are simply Boon bots. and now they nerf that.

Some people are funny.

Anyways. Hopefully this will give guardians more FUN ACTIVE defense skills, and not only have to run around applying boons all time.

Better shields… Better Defense traits.
Better feeling to actually be a guardian, and not a boon bot.

I hope they give more classes the option to deal more dmg the more boons there is on a player.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Better shields… Better Defense traits.
Better feeling to actually be a guardian, and not a boon bot.

I’m all for this, but I highly doubt it will happen.

Sil.4560:

Amins.3710:

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

I suppose we’ll discover how things play out, which is what I’ve been saying across multiple threads. I’m hoping this is beneficial for warriors. Guardians have been high up on the chain of fighting others for some time, so I can’t really feel any sympathy if there’s a month of weakness for them between now and the next patch. It’s part of balancing and maybe it’s guardians’ turn to feel the burn.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

That must be why the guardians in WvW can frequently tank and recover from absurd amounts of warrior attacks plus five other people beating on them. Dunno. I see similar arguments from plenty of guardians and yet the actual effects in game are obvious. I can’t really be kitten to get into some petty theory debate with someone on an internet forum who is ultimately just going to resort to “L2P”; that’s always how things go on these forums. We’re just going to have to play the patch and actually see. Not to be rude, but I feel that I saved us some time. Have a good day.

You must play a warrior, and bad as well. If all you get is L2P, why dont you? We both know, heck the forum knows that what you state is utter kitten. Why not acknowledge you are the one that is wrong? Nvm, this is the internet.

The only confirmed 1v5+ win is a d/d ele, which is on youtube somewhere.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Sil.4560:

Amins.3710:

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

I suppose we’ll discover how things play out, which is what I’ve been saying across multiple threads. I’m hoping this is beneficial for warriors. Guardians have been high up on the chain of fighting others for some time, so I can’t really feel any sympathy if there’s a month of weakness for them between now and the next patch. It’s part of balancing and maybe it’s guardians’ turn to feel the burn.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

That must be why the guardians in WvW can frequently tank and recover from absurd amounts of warrior attacks plus five other people beating on them. Dunno. I see similar arguments from plenty of guardians and yet the actual effects in game are obvious. I can’t really be kitten to get into some petty theory debate with someone on an internet forum who is ultimately just going to resort to “L2P”; that’s always how things go on these forums. We’re just going to have to play the patch and actually see. Not to be rude, but I feel that I saved us some time. Have a good day.

You must play a warrior, and bad as well. If all you get is L2P, why dont you? We both know, heck the forum knows that what you state is utter kitten. Why not acknowledge you are the one that is wrong? Nvm, this is the internet.

The only confirmed 1v5+ win is a d/d ele, which is on youtube somewhere.

…and Mesmers, thieves, and before it was nerfed 100 grenade engies lol.

What Sil is basically saying is just chill the kitten out, wait for official patch notes, and comment after changes have been made. No point throwing all the hissy fits before anything’s happened.

Sandra Martino.3870:

You must play a warrior, and bad as well.

Let’s see, assumptions without evidence for the sake of trying to undermine me rather than producing an actual argument, check.

If all you get is L2P, why dont you?

“L2P” as predicted, check.

We both know, heck the forum knows that what you state is utter kitten. Why not acknowledge you are the one that is wrong? Nvm, this is the internet.

Appeal to a questionable majority, check.

The only confirmed 1v5+ win is a d/d ele, which is on youtube somewhere.

Statement which doesn’t address what I was saying at all, check.

Yep, typical stuff seems to be in order. You done? Setun pretty much nailed it. I’m happy that warriors are finally getting some attention and can’t wait to see how it plays out in practice. We’ll learn from there.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Amins.3710:

You know, what kitten es me off the most is that they completely nerf our survivability for larger group play in WvW, yet gave us nothing in terms of Escapability / Mobility.

It was bad enough we were one of the slowest classes out there and w/ one of the lowest HP Pools… but now they’ve taken away our defense too.

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Might as well leave the “first in” for Ele’s…. right, an ele going in before a Guardian and living longer than a Heavy Armor Class… what a bad nightmare.

The talk about Guardians being Strong w/ their Boons and Defense, and that that’s how they want them to be… but to fell pressure when they don’t have those boons and defenses…. well, the just took them all away.

LOL. but… you said guardians are great. iam just a noob that doesnt understand how to play it.

But as soon as they hint about making boons into a possible Disadvantage.
You come out spitting on the floor and looking angry…

So, Basicaly you agree to what i have said all along. Guardians arent guardians..
they are simply Boon bots. and now they nerf that.

Some people are funny.

Anyways. Hopefully this will give guardians more FUN ACTIVE defense skills, and not only have to run around applying boons all time.

Better shields… Better Defense traits.
Better feeling to actually be a guardian, and not a boon bot.

I hope they give more classes the option to deal more dmg the more boons there is on a player.

Actually, that’s not what I said.

I’ve don’t care about the boon hate. I’ve stated that multiple times. Our survivability doesn’t revolve around BOONS.

It does however, survive around Damage Negation as a means to avoid Burst.

Not everyone plays AH builds.

eldain stenlund.4306:

LOL. iam just a noob that doesnt understand how to play it.

Sil.4560:

Let’s see, assumptions without evidence for the sake of trying to undermine me rather than producing an actual argument, check.

The only way to get evidence would be me asking you dearly what profession you play as your main. Because of your negative tone combined with your view of reality i have no way of acquiring said evidence.

I simply used common sense, since you got “kitten”. (kitten: combine bottom back with pain.)

“L2P” as predicted, check.

When one’s view is distinctly different from majority’s consensus, one ought to reflect on their own behavior. This is why everyone “L2P’s” you.

Appeal to a questionable majority, check.

Like i said, this is the internet. I tried to show that you were wrong but in the same sentence i realized that you will never see. For example, discussing creationists versus atheist never conceived any results in changing opinions on either side.

Because of majority consensus, i do however claim that you are wrong.

Statement which doesn’t address what I was saying at all, check.

You did, you’ve gone overboard in how 5 warriors + 2 randoms can hit on you and have you make it out alive. This is the same case as saying the militairy army invaded your house and you made it out alive because we simply cannot prove so.

Yep, typical stuff seems to be in order. You done? Setun pretty much nailed it. I’m happy that warriors are finally getting some attention and can’t wait to see how it plays out in practice. We’ll learn from there.

Setun didn’t nail anything, neither did you (see bold section). While i can already imagine your response by taking all my quotes into your own quotes with biased opinions we can go on forever… i got more important things to do.

(if your reaction however is amusing enough to me, i wont disappoint you)

Sandra Martino.3870:

The only way to get evidence would be me asking you dearly what profession you play as your main. Because of your negative tone combined with your view of reality i have no way of acquiring said evidence.

I simply used common sense, since you got “kitten”. (kitten: combine bottom back with pain.)

Troll harder.

When one’s view is distinctly different from majority’s consensus, one ought to reflect on their own behavior. This is why everyone “L2P’s” you.

People “L2P” everyone on this forum because it’s the laziest way out of producing an actual argument they can come up with. So yeah, seen this before. Just another person thoughtlessly spewing out the same crap.

Like i said, this is the internet. I tried to show that you were wrong but in the same sentence i realized that you will never see. For example, discussing creationists versus atheist never conceived any results in changing opinions on either side.

Because of majority consensus, i do however claim that you are wrong.

“Majority consensus” being the one that apparently exists only in the fairy tales dancing about in your head. Man you’re bad at this.

You did, you’ve gone overboard in how 5 warriors + 2 randoms can hit on you and have you make it out alive. This is the same case as saying the militairy army invaded your house and you made it out alive because we simply cannot prove so.

It’s commonplace watching a guardian walk through a zerg to make it safely into a keep with no problem in WvW. Siege like any given keep and you’re almost certain to see it. Not really rocket science.

Also, lol @ “[…] 5 warriors + 2 randoms […]”. Unless you can actually find where I’ve said that, you kind of fail. Lose. Are incorrect. And generally Making Crap Up. /shrug

Setun didn’t nail anything, neither did you (see bold section). While i can already imagine your response by taking all my quotes into your own quotes with biased opinions we can go on forever… i got more important things to do.

(if your reaction however is amusing enough to me, i wont disappoint you)

Coming across as a pseudo-intellectual desperate to seem cool and aloof on an internet forum, check. Next time you reply to me, actually provide the substance of an argument you seem to be grasping at rather than this embarrassing flailing. In fact, better to just PM me rather than clutter this thread with garbage.

What Setun said is true – I’m totally saying to chill out and just wait and see. This patch might be a nice refreshment, even if it needs tweaked further – and it will.

Sil.4560:

Amins.3710:

Sil.

There’s not doubt Bunker builds are the worst enemy for both Guardians and Warriors.

But you cannot argue the fact that a “DPS” type guardian is going to survive w/ these changes.

I suppose we’ll discover how things play out, which is what I’ve been saying across multiple threads. I’m hoping this is beneficial for warriors. Guardians have been high up on the chain of fighting others for some time, so I can’t really feel any sympathy if there’s a month of weakness for them between now and the next patch. It’s part of balancing and maybe it’s guardians’ turn to feel the burn.

And your “No Effort” blocking… is completely unfounded. Your timing / recharge for burst and the amount of burst available to the Warrior class outweights the blocks we have.

I think what you might want to re-iterate is the amount of blocks we have that eliminate your CC (stuns), for which you open with for your “Burst”.

Not the same. Not even close.

That must be why the guardians in WvW can frequently tank and recover from absurd amounts of warrior attacks plus five other people beating on them. Dunno. I see similar arguments from plenty of guardians and yet the actual effects in game are obvious. I can’t really be kitten to get into some petty theory debate with someone on an internet forum who is ultimately just going to resort to “L2P”; that’s always how things go on these forums. We’re just going to have to play the patch and actually see. Not to be rude, but I feel that I saved us some time. Have a good day.

Think he means the bolded.

Quite possibly. Like I said though, it’s not really hard to watch a Guard just walk through a zerg to get into a keep or back to their own lines even with a ton of people focusing them. It’s that level of negation which I suspect prompted stuff like the unblockable Signet of Might change and added power against boons to beef up the hits that do connect. Something was needed in response. Whether this is a good fix or not…I guess we’ll see.

Sil.4560:

Quite possibly. Like I said though, it’s not really hard to watch a Guard just walk through a zerg to get into a keep or back to their own lines even with a ton of people focusing them. It’s that level of negation which I suspect prompted stuff like the unblockable Signet of Might change and added power against boons to beef up the hits that do connect. Something was needed in response. Whether this is a good fix or not…I guess we’ll see.

What are these guardians doing besides walking through zergs?

Mostly I was just using it as an example of the extreme mitigation that I imagine the unblockable attacks were meant to dealt with. Obviously nobody is going to take a zerg alone, but the tankiness just becomes more profound in the smaller scale, hence the attempts at balance I suppose.

I mean the only way that can happen is if they use blocking AND renewed focus, which gives them temporary invulnerability like with mist form and elixir s.

I imagine the unblockable attacks won’t have an effect on “Invulnerable” status.

I’m not sure everyone QQ’ing here have much of an idea of whats going on…

Warior gets unblockable attacks. They get 3 attacks. WHEN they pop a signet.
– Learn to see the signet animation (ITS A HUGE SIGNET ON TOP OF HIS HEAD) and dodge/invul (invul and block are different things) the next 3 attacks. You have vigor, you can time that… And by missing one attack (KS-Evis) it goes on a short CD, so you can probably take the next 2 attacks and make him waste the buff on lame auto-attacks that still wont dmg you much.

Warrior gets 3% dmg per buff.
– Thats IF he trait deep into discipline, and not taking the burst mastery trait. this will make the warrior loose some very important 30 pts. So, hes going to be a full burst glass canon or a tank with mostly no dmg/crits. Use protection and you mostly negates his dmg increase. And again, learn to dodge the burst.

Thiefs will steal our boons.
– Only S/D thiefs can get boom stealing, and its costly… very costly. They can maybe steal 3 boons and do nothing for about the next 5secs (not even stealth).

Necro will corrupt our boons
– They already did that… If you are using SY against necros and stepping in their wells you were already going to die before…

All in all, the changes will make guards having to pay more attention on their oponents and their surroundings instead of mindlesly spamming boons all over and not giving a skritts bottoms to whats going on…
A welcome change…

^ i agree. nice to get some balanced feedback. Also looking forward to what ANet will give to “compensate” guardians in viability.

lLobo.7960:

All in all, the changes will make guards having to pay more attention on their oponents and their surroundings instead of mindlesly spamming boons all over and not giving a skritts bottoms to whats going on…
A welcome change…

Concur. This is what I’m hoping for.

Raptured.9307:

I mean the only way that can happen is if they use blocking AND renewed focus, which gives them temporary invulnerability like with mist form and elixir s.

Essentially yeah. Those 2 skills combined is 5 seconds of invulnerability, and if you use the vampirism rune set (like I do) the mist form it provides gives you an additional 3-4 seconds on top of that.

Well Sil, you actually took the time to take my quotes into your own quotes doing almost exactly what i described on beforehand.

Sil.4560:

Mostly I was just using it as an example of the extreme mitigation that I imagine the unblockable attacks were meant to dealt with. Obviously nobody is going to take a zerg alone, but the tankiness just becomes more profound in the smaller scale, hence the attempts at balance I suppose.

I still don’t understand? And you didn’t answer my question really. So what does this tanky guardian do? Just run back and forth into the zerg and get away? Does it even kill anyone? What kind of objectives does it achieve by running back and forth in between the zerg? And in your scenario of this guardian fighting many warriors and five other players, what do they do? Are they running away from those players? Or are they trying to fight them and successfully winning?

I’m not really sure how else to explain it, other than saying the same mitigation that allows them to do something like easily survive that was also way overkill against a single warrior, hence the efforts with unblockable attacks and whatnot. It was an example to show this.

Sil.4560:

I’m not really sure how else to explain it, other than saying the same mitigation that allows them to do something like easily survive that was also way overkill against a single warrior, hence the efforts with unblockable attacks and whatnot. It was an example to show this.

Which skills are they using to achieve this?

Bah, just lost my entire message. That’s annoying. I’ll just say now that if you play your guardian, you know exactly how to mitigate damage. Not to sound harsh, but don’t sit there and try to troll me by asking questions like that when you’re mostly like going to respond with the contrary, no matter what I say. “Sandra” already has that covered in this thread to an irrational extreme.

I’d like to think it’s fairly common knowledge that the game does have a ‘bunker problem’ and that the SotG stuff is meant to reflect this. I mean, I get it, you don’t want things to be stronger against guardian. But for the sake of balance they’re going to have to be and I think Anet finally agrees.

I agree that warriors need something against a bunker guardian, but I don’t get your point that guardians can dive zergs and warriors can’t. I’ve seen warriors zergdiving as good as guardians. You can’t expect to survive in the middle of a zerg as a glasscannon ;)

Sil.4560:

Bah, just lost my entire message. That’s annoying. I’ll just say now that if you play your guardian, you know exactly how to mitigate damage. Not to sound harsh, but don’t sit there and try to troll me by asking questions like that when you’re mostly like going to respond with the contrary, no matter what I say. “Sandra” already has that covered in this thread to an irrational extreme.

I’d like to think it’s fairly common knowledge that the game does have a ‘bunker problem’ and that the SotG stuff is meant to reflect this. I mean, I get it, you don’t want things to be stronger against guardian. But for the sake of balance they’re going to have to be and I think Anet finally agrees.

What in the world are you talking about? And what does this has to do with my question????

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I agree that warriors need something against a bunker guardian, but I don’t get your point that guardians can dive zergs and warriors can’t. I’ve seen warriors zergdiving as good as guardians. You can’t expect to survive in the middle of a zerg as a glasscannon

Nobody gets his point, because it simply isn’t true. However if you disagree with him he will troll you to no end.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Nobody gets his point, because it simply isn’t true. However if you disagree with him he will troll you to no end.

good to know that I’m not alone xD

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I agree that warriors need something against a bunker guardian, but I don’t get your point that guardians can dive zergs and warriors can’t. I’ve seen warriors zergdiving as good as guardians. You can’t expect to survive in the middle of a zerg as a glasscannon

Oh I jump in and out all the time as my warrior. Can’t stay in there in nearly the same way though; it’s a matter of getting out before you melt, which is gonna happen fast. Guards are way more forgiving for this. What I’m saying is that the example of that is only compounded as a problem on the smaller scale, which you seem to agree on! I don’t get why this is so hard for people to grasp. Perhaps I worded it badly. Sandra is an obvious troll, but I’m not sure what else to say to you, Aza. I guess we can just move on.

Well you have been mentioning up their extreme mitigation, provided imaginary scenarios of it but you never have mentioned up exactly what allows them to mitigate so much damage.

I ruled out dodging because you said most guardians don’t dodge.

I thought about blocking since you mentioned up how great it is that warriors are getting unblockables. But then I thought how warrior has shield stance which is like shelter minus the gimpy heal.

Then I thought about invulnerability or renewed focus with guardian. But then warrior has endure pain and defy pain, which I’d say is better than renewed focus.

Those are the only types of mitigation I can think of. I play guardian and you said I should know, I’d tell you selfless daring dodge (the honor trait). You can heal while dodging, but ele has this too. But again, you said guardians don’t tend to dodge. So this still leaves me scratching my head, wondering what you are referring to.

Heh, if you’re gonna insult me by claiming “imaginary scenarios”, despite the fact that they’re easy to see within a couple of minutes of WvW, I’m not really interested. I like discussing the game with people but sometimes these forums are out of control. What I said was an example to illustrate a problem in smaller fights, which again, is what these changes will influence more, I hope. Take it or leave it.

With regards to the warrior skills, Shield Stance sometimes bugs and lets you get CC’d through it and Endure/Defy Pain only prevents direct damage, so…eh. They’re a couple of those things we’re hoping for bug fixes/tweaks on. They’re good, but could use some work I think.

The main things that allows guardians to be tankier and more lasting than warriors is their healing and protection uptime I’d say. I don’t really think that guardians being tanky is much of an issue, as far as WvW is concerned anyway. It’s one of our main strengths, and as a result our damage output is low (which will be even lower with the retaliation nerf). There’s also other downsides like the lack of mobility and low base hp (which is offset by our healing and protection), but these have been mentioned quite a few times already.

Rather than trying to provide warriors with mechanics designed to get through blocks and deal more damage to players with boons, I’d say make them more viable as a tanky class. Provide them with atleast some access to protection, maybe improve their healing a bit, and they could use some additional condition removal as well. Trying to buff their damage is nice and all, but it’s hardly their issue. The 33% reduced duration of movement debuffs is alright I guess.

Sil.4560:

Heh, if you’re gonna insult me by claiming “imaginary scenarios”, despite the fact that they’re easy to see within a couple of minutes of WvW, I’m not really interested. I like discussing the game with people but sometimes these forums are out of control.

With regards to the warrior skills, Shield Stance sometimes bugs and lets you get CC’d through it and Endure/Defy Pain only prevents direct damage, so…eh. They’re a couple of those things we’re hoping for bug fixes/tweaks on. They’re good, but could use some work I think.

I’m not trying to insult you, sorry man.

Shelter works just like shield stance, sometimes it gets bugged and I get CCed. Tends to happen a lot with knockdowns. Shield stance lasts much longer when you have it traited.

And renewed focus is like endure/defy pain, you are only invulnerable against direct damage. Condition damage still ticks for damage. The biggest advantage Endure/Defy pain has over renewed focus is that you can still use your skills. Where as guardian can’t unless they are instant.

So blocks and invulnerability can’t be the mitigation you are referring to, because warrior has both (as well as other classes) and warriors has a longer duration. Again, you said its not dodge because guardians don’t tend to dodge. But I’d say its the only form of mitigation guardian has that warrior doesn’t. Warrior has a dodge+ damage trait were guard has dodge+ heal trait.

So where is the extreme amount of mitigation coming from? I’m trying to see where you are coming from, but I’m just not seeing what you are referring to. Perhaps its some sort of exploit? There was a exploit awhile back with protectors strike, but that was fixed.

Sil.4560:

With regards to the warrior skills, Shield Stance sometimes bugs and lets you get CC’d through it and Endure/Defy Pain only prevents direct damage, so…eh. They’re a couple of those things we’re hoping for bug fixes/tweaks on. They’re good, but could use some work I think.

As you said, it bugs out. So it’s not the class, that is not capable of those things.
Endure/Defy Pain only prevents direct damage, right. But while invulnerable I still suffer from condition damage. Of course, you can (and most likely will) get new conditions on you which invulnerability prevents, and you can get CC’d. To say that the guardian is better at surviving then a warrior, it would need some testing. Both need the same gear (clerics gear, the guardian needs a bit PTV too due to the low healthpool).

Aza.2105:

So where is the extreme amount of mitigation coming from? I’m trying to see where you are coming from, but I’m just not seeing what you are referring to. Perhaps its some sort of exploit? There was a exploit awhile back with protectors strike, but that was fixed.

Don’t forget the passive/active heal we get from our F2 skill. But also a warrior has (if traited and in full clerics gear) a heal of over 2000 from a single shout.

Meandor Berdor.5438:

Aza.2105:

So where is the extreme amount of mitigation coming from? I’m trying to see where you are coming from, but I’m just not seeing what you are referring to. Perhaps its some sort of exploit? There was a exploit awhile back with protectors strike, but that was fixed.

Don’t forget the passive/active heal we get from our F2 skill. But also a warrior has (if traited and in full clerics gear) a heal of over 2000 from a single shout.

True, they also have a passive regen from their healing signet. So its possible they can match guardian passive regen. Plus, they have a high regen boon uptime with their banners too.

I found a video of a (good) tanky warrior in WvW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I found a video of a (good) tanky warrior in WvW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

Its kind of old but nice find man!