Guild Wars 2

Is that an Orb of Power I see? x)

Sil.4560:

I dunno, what’s the point of warrior burst damage if a guardian can block most all of it with almost no effort?

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

Yes it is old, but it still shows what the warrior class is capable of :).

Sil.4560:

Is that an Orb of Power I see? x)

Yes, it is an Orb of Power, but remember, this orb doesn’t change your skills. He is surviving because of his skillsets and not because of this orb.

Svarty.8019:

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

Welcome to the other side for awhile I guess.

Meandor Berdor.5438:

Yes, it is an Orb of Power, but remember, this orb doesn’t change your skills. He is surviving because of his skillsets and not because of this orb.

Ya. Just commenting on the crazy oldness. =)

Sil.4560:

Ya. Just commenting on the crazy oldness. =)

got a bit nostalgic while watching :)

Sil.4560:

Quite possibly. Like I said though, it’s not really hard to watch a Guard just walk through a zerg to get into a keep or back to their own lines even with a ton of people focusing them. It’s that level of negation which I suspect prompted stuff like the unblockable Signet of Might change and added power against boons to beef up the hits that do connect. Something was needed in response. Whether this is a good fix or not…I guess we’ll see.

Or an Engineer who Invulnes and Blocks thier way into a keep.

Or a Warrior who Shield Blocks + Endure Pains into a keep.

Or a mesmer that ports + stealths into a keep.

Or a necro that shrouds / plagues into a keep

Or an ele that RTL / Mist forms into a keep.

Or Ranger that Rampages + GS / Sword into a keep.

Or a Thief… lawl.

I fail to see your point. Every class, when spec’d for a bunker type build can do the same thing.

Or the warrior who runs GS + Sword / WH + Bulls who just runs acorss a map w/ no one really being able to catch them…

If you spec it, you can do it.

Your point is completely invalid.

After having read the topic completely, I feel like they should introduce a ‘Guardian Hate’ mechanic just for Sil. Every time a Guardian kills you, you gain one stack of Guardian Hate that increases your damage done to guardians by 10%. Lose all stacks after stomping a guardian.

IF you spec it. What guardian can’t do that? lol

Anyway, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what I was trying to say, despite my clarifying it multiple times. If you don’t feel this game has a bunker problem, sorry, you’re out of touch with reality. Thankfully the changes acknowledge there being one and I get to laugh at the due justice of the scales being tipped the other way for awhile. Nothing more to say to you because you’re probably going to misread/misrepresent my post again anyway.

lol Okaishi. I don’t remember the last time I was ever killed by a guardian while playing WvW. In fact I frequently go several hours at a time without ever being downed. Better awareness of the battlefield, I suppose. Feel free to spam more “L2P” trash though. I’m sure you’ve seen me play. You and all of the hundreds of other people on this forum who frequently go back and forth with the same baseless personal attacks on skill and comments they think are terribly clever. /rolleyes

I was only kidding though, no need to get on the defensive like that. I happened to read the Warrior forum too where you were so happy to announce that Guardian hunting became this much easier for you now, which makes it obvious how much you hate the class. A ‘l2p’ argument was the last thing on my mind. Take it easy.

Not sure why you hate them as much when they don’t manage to kill you in the first place, but that’s another issue.

Ah. Guess I’m just used to that stuff being so frequent like everywhere on these forums that I was just like, oh boy, here we go again, haha.

Mostly I’m happy about it because it feels like guards were being given too much forgiveness for such obvious combat mistakes against classes like warriors. This will hopefully force people to stay on their toes more!

Sil.4560:

Ah. Guess I’m just used to that stuff being so frequent like everywhere on these forums that I was just like, oh boy, here we go again, haha.

Mostly I’m happy about it because it feels like guards were being given too much forgiveness for such obvious combat mistakes against classes like warriors. This will hopefully force people to stay on their toes more!

You have never explained how…..

You’ve only given vague descriptions why the class is overpowered and needs to be steamrolled…… But out of all of your posts you’ve never once specified what exactly is making them so strong. I’ve asked you quite a few times in this thread, but each time you simply evade the answer.

I’m not sure if you are serious or if you are just trolling. But if guardian needs a nerf or warriors boosted to kill guardians, yet you as a warrior player have never lost to a guardian in wvw. What does that say about warriors? Are they ok then? Since you said you don’t have trouble killing guardians. Or is it a l2p play issue in regards to the other warriors but you.

Maybe you could help them out by creating a tutorial on how to properly kill guardians.

I want to see warrior buffs as much as you do. Personally I haven’t ever lost to one, not since I actually knew what I was doing, so I agree they need some love. But I think changes like these that seem to be meant specifically for giving guardians a harder time won’t help you all that much. I can only imagine that mesmers are still going to be a pain to fight against. Or that’s what the warriors in my guild complain about as being the hardest class to fight (mostly because of their ability to kite and deal heavy damage at the same time).

As I mentioned earlier, more condition removal, some access to protection and maybe a buff to their healing could bring them up to a higher level pvp wise, rather than just being a bit stronger against guardians. But that’s just my opinion.

Mesmer is another animal, yeah. Although personally my biggest problem with them is that my PC for some reason seems to have trouble rendering things after stealth and when things “pop” around using teleport skills.

I am curious to see what trait balances they were talking about in the SOTG.

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I found a video of a (good) tanky warrior in WvW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

Now i’ve seen it all… Very nice!

Well all I got to say is if you can’t block them, then blind them. Nuff said.

Sil.4560:

You and all of the hundreds of other people on this forum who frequently go back and forth with the same baseless personal attacks on skill and comments they think are terribly clever. /rolleyes

Mature.

Amins.3710:

You know, what kitten es me off the most is that they completely nerf our survivability for larger group play in WvW, yet gave us nothing in terms of Escapability / Mobility.

It was bad enough we were one of the slowest classes out there and w/ one of the lowest HP Pools… but now they’ve taken away our defense too.

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Might as well leave the “first in” for Ele’s…. right, an ele going in before a Guardian and living longer than a Heavy Armor Class… what a bad nightmare.

The talk about Guardians being Strong w/ their Boons and Defense, and that that’s how they want them to be… but to fell pressure when they don’t have those boons and defenses…. well, the just took them all away.

cause a guardian walking into a 50 man zerg, tank all the hits, killing a guy, then casually walking out was balanced… Also perma swiftness, multiple blinks and multiple leaps. Right… you really have no mobility. Necros and engis are really outshining you everywhere aren’t they…

And about the hinderance vs warriors and thieves… thieves need to take sword dagger which is a very unusual weapon set. It has fairly low damage and is mostly single target. Don’t see a problem with booning up your zerg here.

Now lets say you give everyone around you 5 boons. Say prot, ret, regen, aiges, and might. You’ve just given everyone around you hp regen, block to the next attack, damage to attackers, and 33% less damage taken while they also deal more damage per attack and condition. How exactly is that a hinderance when 1 traited warrior only does 15% more damage to that person when they are doing all those extra amazing things (not to mention 33% less damage taken with regening hp). Maybe if it was 10% more damage per boon I could see this as a problem but 3% is nothing.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I found a video of a (good) tanky warrior in WvW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

Now i’ve seen it all… Very nice!

Omnomberry Pie did a lot for us!

Amins.3710:

You still miss the point.. you still believe every Guardian is Bunker…

Are you like stalking my posts or something? I thought I made it abundantly clear that I don’t want to talk to you until you cease coming across as incredibly rude. Trying to spew crap about what you think I believe isn’t helping this case. Oh, and by the way, that assumption is wrong.

Clearly, your jaded view of reality is evident in your written words. We all know where your bais stance stands: "i’ve been beaten too many times and couldn’t figure it out, so I complained and moaned until things were “fixed”… "

Aaand there’s the unfounded “skill” attack, since you’re out of actual things to say. Warriors needed help against bunkers – that’s what I’ve been saying. If you think that’s not true, you’re free to believe so since the 30th patch is coming with or without you. Until then, scream at the sky harder I guess. I’m excited to see what the changes bring and will just cackle at people like you who flail miserably trying to attack me on grounds of skill, having never seen me play.

You know, repeating the same thing about what you think I believe doesn’t make it true, no matter how much you want it to. I do play a bit of both in WvW; Ehmry gives us lots of scenarios to fight in with our varying population level. I can’t say what effect it will have on large scale WvW because I’m not into making sweeping predictions before a patch is released. We’ll, again, just have to wait and see.

Anyway, keep going off about how you’re shutting people down or whatever. You’re not even providing any valid arguments of your own, you’re just making generalized claims about individual skill and generally being rude. I’m a bit ashamed to have you in my server community if you act this way all the time.

Svarty.8019:

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

Its one class!! Its 3 attacks after using one signet. Learn to see the animation and dodge/invul/LoS it.

And the boon hate? You still have protection… and I dont see it becoming a typical warrior playstyle as it demands 30 pts in discipline AND not taking burst mastery.

Thiefs stealing boons?? Have you seen the cost of it? Do you even know how thief works? If they steal 3 boons from a guardian they cant do anything anymore for the next 4-5 secs…

Stop overreacting!

Amins, your post isn’t even relevant. Enough said about what? That I have enough awareness to survive situations like the kind I described without building to be a tank? Haha. It’s hit and run mostly and not all that forgiving if you make a mistake. I’m really looking forward to what these changes can bring, though – should give me a few more options. But by all means, continue pointlessly stalking my posts like some sort of psychopath.

And in case you were wondering – which I’m sure you are due to your apparent obsession with destroying this thread and following me across this forum – I’m not interested in seeing whatever bizarre explanation you have for your post, because it will no doubt be stuffed full of baseless accusations, personal attacks, and condescending remarks. Just drop it and move on.

lLobo, I agree. People act like the sky is falling and it’s not even patch day.

lLobo.7960:

Svarty.8019:

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

kitten .. Guardian concept is not being DESTROYED??
Its one class!! Its 3 attacks after using one signet. Learn to see the animation and dodge/invul/LoS it.

And the boon hate? You still have protection… and I dont see it becoming a typical warrior playstyle as it demands 30 pts in discipline AND not taking burst mastery.

Thiefs stealing boons?? Have you seen the cost of it? Do you even know how thief works? If they steal 3 boons from a guardian they cant do anything anymore for the next 4-5 secs…

Stop overreacting!

Why do people act as if protection is always up? Its not. What you mean is that guardian will be forced to take skills that use protection. So what happens if the player isn’t running a shout build but a gs build and meditations? GS doesn’t have access to protection like hammer. Neither does meditations…..

Now imagine they use Contemplation of Purity. And they have all conditions except vulnerability.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Contemplation_of_Purity

So they get penalized for using a skill that removes all of their conditions and convert them to boons? What else are they going to use? I think this is the problem everyone has. Its not that everyone is automatically playing a bunker. Its that guardian as a whole is punished even if they are not bunkers.

Take a look how guardian gains access to protection, a starter list is:

Hammer skill 1 (which requires them to be immobile).

Mace skill 3 (which requires them to not get hit for the duration of it)

Hold the line

Save yourselves

Tome of courage

inspired virtue (5pts into virtues)

pure of voice (again vulnerability needs to be converted)

So a guardian would be hurting themselves to put any points into virtues since the first 5 points automatically provides boons for the virtues you use. The master trait provides retaliation for each virtue used. Even though virtues really isn’t a bunker tree.

Using condition removal would be harmful without having protection. But guardian condition removal doesn’t automatically give protection.

If anything this will only force guardians do stay bunker even more. (If the warrior boon hate build becomes popular).

lLobo.7960:

Svarty.8019:

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

kitten .. Guardian concept is not being DESTROYED??
Its one class!! Its 3 attacks after using one signet. Learn to see the animation and dodge/invul/LoS it.

And the boon hate? You still have protection… and I dont see it becoming a typical warrior playstyle as it demands 30 pts in discipline AND not taking burst mastery.

Thiefs stealing boons?? Have you seen the cost of it? Do you even know how thief works? If they steal 3 boons from a guardian they cant do anything anymore for the next 4-5 secs…

Stop overreacting!

Do you even get what we are trying to say? Don’t tell me I need to “l2p”.
Some change was needed, and this one makes the warrior more viable for 1v1.
However this has a huge impact on zerg v zerg fighting. I can “Learn to see the animation and dodge/invul/LoS it” as much as I want, but I can’t watch out for every single warrior in a zerg if he activates his signet.
And that is what is a bit unbalanced. The guardian will be shut down completely in a large fight. I guess you are playing mostly a roamer or spvp/tpvp?

Every class can pretty much be speced bunker. Just focus the build on every defensive trait or boon or mechanic you can find. If you cant get a certain boon from your class theres a ton of runes than can act as a source to be used to bunker up like lyssa, monk, dwayna, earth and so on. Hell i bet you in the end you could make most of them bunkier than a guardian. But the thing is other classes dont spec that way cause thy have choices.

I’ve said it before a long time ago people think guardians are tanky because we are forced into it due to lack of choice. We cant build burst like others so whats left? You only see guadians tanking cause its the way majority of guardians can play the game at all as guardian. IF guardian can only paint his car red then thats what everyone sees a ton of red cars doing wat red cars do. Cant see blue cars if we dont have blue paint.
Other classes got a whole spectrum to use tho lol.

If every thief was bunkering up to their teeth we would be talking bout that in their forum and the patch would be nerfing them. It would be pretty much hax godmode to play a thief with a guardians mindset just with ton of stealth in full ptv with defensive traits and runes. Dmg would not be bursty but neither is guardians. Altho u dont see many thiefs doing it cause they dont have to. But if they had to then we would have people saying how these thiefs “walk through a zerg into a tower”.

Anyways this patch is going too deep into the base of the class really. It doesnt feel like balancing but more like punishing the core of the class that needs its blocks to stay in the game.

Hostility.4961:

Every class can pretty much be speced bunker. Just focus the build on every defensive trait or boon or mechanic you can find. If you cant get a certain boon from your class theres a ton of runes than can act as a source to be used to bunker up like lyssa, monk, dwayna, earth and so on. Hell i bet you in the end you could make most of them bunkier than a guardian. But the thing is other classes dont spec that way cause thy have choices.

I’ve said it before a long time ago people think guardians are tanky because we are forced into it due to lack of choice. We cant build burst like others so whats left? You only see guadians tanking cause its the way majority of guardians can play the game at all as guardian. IF guardian can only paint his car red then thats what everyone sees a ton of red cars doing wat red cars do. Cant see blue cars if we dont have blue paint.
Other classes got a whole spectrum to use tho lol.

If every thief was bunkering up to their teeth we would be talking bout that in their forum and the patch would be nerfing them. It would be pretty much hax godmode to play a thief with a guardians mindset just with ton of stealth in full ptv with defensive traits and runes. Dmg would not be bursty but neither is guardians. Altho u dont see many thiefs doing it cause they dont have to. But if they had to then we would have people saying how these thiefs “walk through a zerg into a tower”.

Anyways this patch is going too deep into the base of the class really. It doesnt feel like balancing but more like punishing the core of the class that needs its blocks to stay in the game.

Thief can’t go bunker in pvp since when you’re stealth, you lose the ability to cap or stop someone from caping. We need to use stealth as well sine we have no access to protection aside from stealing it now. In wvw, we are great bunkers but wvw isn’t where a roaming class needs to be bunker (aside from ele since they do a ton more damage than thieves when built bunker). If I go sword dagger in full pvt with tanky runes, I can be very annoying when played right. However, due to no access to protection or aiges or block or any other good defensive boons, I get blown up in a heart beet if I don’t fully maximize shadow step shadow return. Not to mention any damage you could be doing is almost 100% reliant on landing a full aa rotation. If you don’t land that 3rd hit, your damage is negligible at best. With all these downsides, we still don’t have anywhere close to the godlike access to healings that other classes have. Shout bunker warrior, d/d bunker ele, symbols bunker guard, bomb bunker engi, etc. Everyone has better access to healing and defensive boons than thieves for GOOD bunker builds.

randomfightfan.4091:

Hostility.4961:

Every class can pretty much be speced bunker. Just focus the build on every defensive trait or boon or mechanic you can find. If you cant get a certain boon from your class theres a ton of runes than can act as a source to be used to bunker up like lyssa, monk, dwayna, earth and so on. Hell i bet you in the end you could make most of them bunkier than a guardian. But the thing is other classes dont spec that way cause thy have choices.

I’ve said it before a long time ago people think guardians are tanky because we are forced into it due to lack of choice. We cant build burst like others so whats left? You only see guadians tanking cause its the way majority of guardians can play the game at all as guardian. IF guardian can only paint his car red then thats what everyone sees a ton of red cars doing wat red cars do. Cant see blue cars if we dont have blue paint.
Other classes got a whole spectrum to use tho lol.

If every thief was bunkering up to their teeth we would be talking bout that in their forum and the patch would be nerfing them. It would be pretty much hax godmode to play a thief with a guardians mindset just with ton of stealth in full ptv with defensive traits and runes. Dmg would not be bursty but neither is guardians. Altho u dont see many thiefs doing it cause they dont have to. But if they had to then we would have people saying how these thiefs “walk through a zerg into a tower”.

Anyways this patch is going too deep into the base of the class really. It doesnt feel like balancing but more like punishing the core of the class that needs its blocks to stay in the game.

Thief can’t go bunker in pvp since when you’re stealth, you lose the ability to cap or stop someone from caping. We need to use stealth as well sine we have no access to protection aside from stealing it now. In wvw, we are great bunkers but wvw isn’t where a roaming class needs to be bunker (aside from ele since they do a ton more damage than thieves when built bunker). If I go sword dagger in full pvt with tanky runes, I can be very annoying when played right. However, due to no access to protection or aiges or block or any other good defensive boons, I get blown up in a heart beet if I don’t fully maximize shadow step shadow return. Not to mention any damage you could be doing is almost 100% reliant on landing a full aa rotation. If you don’t land that 3rd hit, your damage is negligible at best. With all these downsides, we still don’t have anywhere close to the godlike access to healings that other classes have. Shout bunker warrior, d/d bunker ele, symbols bunker guard, bomb bunker engi, etc. Everyone has better access to healing and defensive boons than thieves for GOOD bunker builds.

Was talking www mostly where we got access to food and more stat freedom and way more objectives and rolls. No one said thief is forced to roam They roam cause they can and shine at it. There are thief builds for zerg blobs too. Just have to “think outside teh box” and fill a diffrent role, bring something to the table u usualy dont.

But even in spvp iv managed to make almost all classes tankier than many ppl play them. All you need is allot of experience with a guardian then try emulating that onto some other class. Takes a defensive mindset. As in you have to accept your dmg will not be bursty.

But what i see most ppl do and i swear its liek 80-90% is use rune of divinity or ruby orbs or some other dps setup. And every kitten trait that gives dmg. And then they complain they cant live in zergs/blobs and that their class sucks at it and how guardian is op tank lol. And then anet listens and boom overnerf.

lol the general consensus from the warrior community towards that wvw video was that the warrior was terrible and his aoe bomb group did all the work for him while he just ran around like a chicken with it’s head chopped off. And that was like 7 months ago.

I guess it’s not much better than a staff guardian running in a zerg spamming staff 1 though so I guess this sub forum would actually think it’s effective when it’s not.

Sil.4560:

IF you spec it. What guardian can’t do that? lol

And thus we come to a point that we can all agree on: All guardians are more-or-less forced to spec for bunker because of their non-existent hit point pool.

Because Guardians are forced to go bunker, they are also more-or-less forced into boon-heavy builds. Making it so that they die more easily to thieves and warriors and necromancers won’t incentivise guardians to try other specs because they still lack the hit points to make it work.

I think that is something which will be addressed in coming patches. I don’t believe all guardians are bunkers, but can certainly see the pressure to spec that way. It’s just like warriors being expected to run zerk in half of the game – adding more straight up damage doesn’t help this, but I am glad they’re at least trying something. Personally, I expect more of this and adjustments to this over the next two or so monthly patches.

I might start playing my guardian again, I stopped and switched to a necro awhile back because they were too easy to play. I play mostly WvW and all the shenanigans you can do with area control abilities plus being able to spam boons all the time to be nearly impossible to kill became boring after awhile. But I also play warrior a fair amount, so I guess if the warrior buffs turn out to be significant and I feel like being overpowered I have that option as well ;p

Said it in a different thread, but I feel like warriors’ boon hate is going to be much worse on other classes than Guardians. Guardian’s the only class I really know well, (And it’s not even really a bunker. It’s more healing and team support) and I’m honestly not that worried still. It honestly got to a point where it was too easy to just dive into a zerg and get out.

What does that do in WvW? Well, pretty much makes a bunch of poor kittens waste their time, energy, attention, and high cooldown skills trying to take out a person who’s otherwise useless. Some argue that it might be pointless to do, but for every second some thief is trying to backstab someone he won’t kill, someone else is killing him. Diverting attention is a very much viable tactic, especially if you isolate yourself away from allies enough so that the enemies’ player-targeted AOE skills don’t hurt your allies. I’m curious to see what’ll happen as well, honestly.

I just worry that in WvW, where tons of boons are flying around, some fleshy is just going to get his head literally ripped off by a killshot that does an extra 24% damage or something.

Also, a smaller point, I worry that my teammates will start yelling at me for simply putting boons on them. I hope excessive boon-hate doesn’t literally make people hate boons.

Aza.2105:

Take a look how guardian gains access to protection, a starter list is:

Hammer skill 1 (which requires them to be immobile).

Mace skill 3 (which requires them to not get hit for the duration of it)

Hold the line

Save yourselves

Tome of courage

inspired virtue (5pts into virtues)

pure of voice (again vulnerability needs to be converted)

For the sake of completeness you may want to also include Shield 4 and Protective Reviver traits. As far as guardians and Protection go, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection Show’s pretty clearly that when looking at weapons and utilities, Guardians have 50% of the available accesses to protection out of all the classes.

Not that some other classes can’t have pretty consistent uptime of protection, Ele’s Attunement to Earth, Ranger’s Prot-on-roll and Engineer’s Protection injection come to mind, but they certainly have some of the easiest access to the boon.

Otherwise, I think there’s a little bit of an overreaction to boon hate. I mean I personally think that boonstacking zergdivers are a bit too much of the FotM in WvW right now, which is why I’ve taken to playing a Necro recently who specializes in blasting boons off people. Nothing quite like seeing someone charge in thinking they’re invincible only to melt on contact. But before this upcoming patch, there was basically no counter for most professions to people who piled on the boons. Much like stealth, you do the best you can against them and sucked it up. After all, the only classes with boon stripping/conversion were Mesmer, Thief, Necro and Engineer, with only the cloth classes having particularly easy access. Now, one more class has the option to be anti-boons and I think that’s a great thing. We’ll see how it pans out

The 3% won’t overcome protection… but it will hurt those more glassy builds who are using boons for extra damage FAR more than it will hurt the bunkers. A better way to go would have been more boon ripping to more classes.

This still won’t address that guard is a boon based fighter though… and have had their stats balanced based upon how they can generate boons to make up for these shortcomings.

Sil.4560:

Sandra Martino.3870:

The only way to get evidence would be me asking you dearly what profession you play as your main. Because of your negative tone combined with your view of reality i have no way of acquiring said evidence.

I simply used common sense, since you got “kitten”. (kitten: combine bottom back with pain.)

Troll harder.

When one’s view is distinctly different from majority’s consensus, one ought to reflect on their own behavior. This is why everyone “L2P’s” you.

People “L2P” everyone on this forum because it’s the laziest way out of producing an actual argument they can come up with. So yeah, seen this before. Just another person thoughtlessly spewing out the same crap.

Like i said, this is the internet. I tried to show that you were wrong but in the same sentence i realized that you will never see. For example, discussing creationists versus atheist never conceived any results in changing opinions on either side.

Because of majority consensus, i do however claim that you are wrong.

“Majority consensus” being the one that apparently exists only in the fairy tales dancing about in your head. Man you’re bad at this.

You did, you’ve gone overboard in how 5 warriors + 2 randoms can hit on you and have you make it out alive. This is the same case as saying the militairy army invaded your house and you made it out alive because we simply cannot prove so.

It’s commonplace watching a guardian walk through a zerg to make it safely into a keep with no problem in WvW. Siege like any given keep and you’re almost certain to see it. Not really rocket science.

Also, lol @ “[…] 5 warriors + 2 randoms […]”. Unless you can actually find where I’ve said that, you kind of fail. Lose. Are incorrect. And generally Making Crap Up. /shrug

Setun didn’t nail anything, neither did you (see bold section). While i can already imagine your response by taking all my quotes into your own quotes with biased opinions we can go on forever… i got more important things to do.

(if your reaction however is amusing enough to me, i wont disappoint you)

Coming across as a pseudo-intellectual desperate to seem cool and aloof on an internet forum, check. Next time you reply to me, actually provide the substance of an argument you seem to be grasping at rather than this embarrassing flailing. In fact, better to just PM me rather than clutter this thread with garbage.

What Setun said is true – I’m totally saying to chill out and just wait and see. This patch might be a nice refreshment, even if it needs tweaked further – and it will.

While I cannot dispute any of your disputes against this person I just have to say:
Pretending to be checking off an actual checklist to appear to have had an actual checklist: Check!

:-D I couldn’t help it , lol

Haha, maybe I do have a checklist!

Aberrant.6749:

The 3% won’t overcome protection… but it will hurt those more glassy builds who are using boons for extra damage FAR more than it will hurt the bunkers. […]

I’d say this is partially true – I respect the power of my fellow warriors! However it can significantly lessen the damage reduction that bunkers might have, thereby allowing them to finally be shredded by a competent player all the same if they aren’t on their toes, which I think was the goal. Be afraid; [“Fear Me!”] ^_~

Shame they couldn’t be creative with boon hate and opted for the simplest approach which is a flat damage increase, which isn’t even going to work in the long run. Bad warriors still won’t be able to kill good bunkers, good warriors are still going to have trouble killing a good bunker. Only thing that’s going to change is making bad warriors able to kill bad non-bunkers ridiculously easy. Especially if these non-bunkers are using primarily offensive builds and just so happen to have a lot of buffs on them. Seems like Anet has the right idea, wrong implementation. I’m pretty sure warrior’s problem isn’t that they need more damage.

Warriors are going to be the new thieves if they keep up their silly little offensive funneling. “How to fix all problems? More damage! More offense! Unblockable!” I just hope warriors become OP so I can criticize everyone who plays one because it’s a broken class! Even my friends, who should be held to my standards of balance. And then these warriors will pretend like it’s “balance.” Even though it’s essentially tipping the scales. Tipping them in favor of guardians and then tipping them in favor of warriors isn’t balance. They don’t cancel each other out.

But I guess every dog has its day~ I’m just glad warriors can stop barking and actually enjoy life a little bit. They might nip a little bit, but honestly, there’s nothing to fear.

Unless you’re a glass cannon or a silly butt who can’t dodge. Since you know, Anet’s not actually fixing the problems, just giving them skill-less damage and making them faceroll offensive. Faceroll bunkers are still going to be alive, and now faceroll DPS warriors are just going to kill other classes easier.

But hey, if the warriors are happy to think of this as the second coming of Jesus Christ or whatever, that’s cool. Good to have faith or something. But I think everyone is overestimating how much this is actually going to affect the current situation. We’ll see what other patch notes we get tomorrow.

We all know -some- warriors just won’t be happy unless they can…

A) Kill any bunker
B) Kill any stealth thief.
C) Kill any fleeing opponent.
D) Have massive sustain.
E) Have massive condition management.
F) Boon Hate (this won’t be enough, I’m sure some will cry that they want more.)
G) Pretty much do everything any other class can do because for some warriors, that’s their idea of balance. (“If I can’t kill everything, I’m underpowered.”)

I’m looking forward to seeing how little this’ll actually change the flow of WvW and PVP. I’m predicting 3 days after patch, the warrior forum will talk about how it’s just not doing enough, and they’ll realize that flat damage increases are boring and lazy balances. Until then, I look forward to still not getting killed by warriors, mainly because my defensive build isn’t even that boon-centric. I feel sorry for offensive shout guardians though.

Oh well. Look forward to seeing everyone in game! Hopefully they do more balance than just handing out damage increases thinking it’ll fix things. Hopefully they start to fix warrior instead of addressing nonexistent problems like “do they do enough damage? Let’s give them more!” If anything, I look forward to the large amount of warriors who think this patch will be their savior that lets them kill everything. I can’t wait to taste the disappointment.

TL;DR: This patch won’t make bad warriors any less bad. And it won’t give them sudden miraculous abilities to kill good, dedicated bunkers. Maybe they should try less “LOL DPS” and more intelligently using their skills. But then again, this buff is going to favor those people who use the atypical DPS weapons on their warriors. I guess some people just need all the help they can get.

I don’t honestly have too many problems against bunker guardians. Comes with experience of playing one and knowing how to do it.

Sokina.8041:

[…]

Still with the overwhelming, unfounded arrogance. I see that hasn’t changed. Some “L2P” mentality stuck in there too! As someone with potentially months to live, I almost feel sorry for the way you opt to go through life. You’ll probably carry it with you until the end with no real cause. For what, so you can feel better about yourself and deliver underhanded comments because I’m in the thread? That’s your choice. Anyway, I’ve wasted guardians exponentially more threatening than the heal build you run. It’s not going to save you against people worth their salt. /shrug

Warriors have been asking for balance. A good number of them want exactly that. It’s not that people are overjoyed at +% damage boon hate, it’s that they’re overjoyed at the fact that Anet is finally responding. It isn’t enough, because the mechanics are limited. There will be more patches. And then more after that. I expect them to go in all directions, until skill matters even more than it does now. I literally might not even see that day, but it’s a promising thought.

Anyway, no disappointment from me. I was killing plenty before the patch. This will just bring it further in line.

I’m sorry if I sound extremist, but this profession had it coming, simply because of the over-reliance on boon builds and ways to enhance those like their duration and intensity, it could be the most effective build generally speaking until now, but it felt all this time like the ‘cookie-cutter’ build of our profession similarly to a Backstab burst Thief build.

All this considering there were clearly other options, more or less effective like consecrations and meditations mixed builds where they offered a different approach and made use of boons in a less reliant way so to speak than a pure SYG, HTL & SY build with tons of boon duration and whatnot, everyone kept overloading on those like the holy grail build and giving it exaggerated highlighting which obviously provoked these changes in how to counter this build, it’s no longer only Mesmers and Necros, but every professions is having their way of diminishing the effectiveness of a boon build because it is linearly overused in the midst of various valid build options and obviously Anet couldn’t touch boons directly or they would potentially break the Guardian entirely but instead went to give other professions weapons to counter those.

Now, to those who keep blabbering about how our low HP pool, then you should sincerely stop gearing with only pew pew’ing in your thoughts, because it is clearly not the fundamental aspect of this profession, for that you can roll a Thief or a Warrior.

Lahm.7056:

[..]

Seems hypocritical to me.

Lahm.7056:

I’m sorry if I sound extremist, but this profession had it coming, simply because of the over-reliance on boon builds and ways to enhance those like their duration and intensity, it could be the most effective build generally speaking until now, but it felt all this time like the ‘cookie-cutter’ build of our profession similarly to a Backstab burst Thief build.

All this considering there were clearly other options, more or less effective like consecrations and meditations mixed builds where they offered a different approach and made use of boons in a less reliant way so to speak than a pure SYG, HTL & SY build with tons of boon duration and whatnot, everyone kept overloading on those like the holy grail build and giving it exaggerated highlighting which obviously provoked these changes in how to counter this build, it’s no longer only Mesmers and Necros, but every professions is having their way of diminishing the effectiveness of a boon build because it is linearly overused in the midst of various valid build options and obviously Anet couldn’t touch boons directly or they would potentially break the Guardian entirely but instead went to give other professions weapons to counter those.

Now, to those who keep blabbering about how our low HP pool, then you should sincerely stop gearing with only pew pew’ing in your thoughts, because it is clearly not the fundamental aspect of this profession, for that you can roll a Thief or a Warrior.

As long as you realize that you sound extremist, there isn’t much else to say : )

Svarty.8019:

Lahm.7056:

[..]

Seems hypocritical to me.

It’s my opinion, maybe you should remove those eyepads hindering your sight and broaden your vision on what else there is than just crying over spilled milk, checking other professions forums who got hit much harder then the Guardian would be a good start to sympathize with the situation.

It’s a Guardian. It relies on boons. The fact that I can be almost completely stripped of what keeps me alive by two Thieves in seconds is too much.

Hell, even a single Thief can rip my boons off faster than I can reapply them and still have enough initiative to stealth off. And now Corrupt Boon is unblockable. That’s fine if I’m only fighting a Necro (you can dodge just enough), but the days of being able to have any chance at all against more than one opponent are coming to an end at this rate.

I’m about to get really bored, really fast.

I never enjoyed the boon builds anyway. However, I can understand how some are upset. Just have to wait and see how it pans out is all. They made their decision for now.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

It’s a Guardian. It relies on boons. The fact that I can be almost completely stripped of what keeps me alive by two Thieves in seconds is too much.

I actually saw some thieves trying this out in WvW earlier today while I was messing with builds of my own. They…aren’t terribly threatening, to say the least. I think you’ll be okay. =p

It’s the first day. I’m sure they’ll get used to using it. I’m just going to hate going from “able to kill two thieves at once if I try really hard” and “lol got torn down because two thieves forced me to bottom out of endurance (especially if they nerf Sigils of Energy) and then stole just enough of my regen and protection that they could survive my damage but I couldn’t do anything about theirs outside of occasional blocks.”

Or, you know, “I just got torn down by a thief and warrior because the thief stole my boons on and off and the warrior shield bashed through my Shelter.”

Maybe. The skill that actually steals the boons is pretty slow; it seems rather easy to dodge to me.

The issue is that you can’t keep dodging. I’m a major advocate of “l2dodge,” but if it’s a zerker thief (they’re everywhere, by the way), you can burn through endurance pretty fast, and that’s all they have to wait for. Sure, you can block it, but we can burn through those too. 4 initiative isn’t enough. 5 would have been better, and only one boon per hit.

I’m less concerned with only fighting one person and more with two. I’m a WvWer, I’m not typically fighting one person at a time. Especially in T1.