Guild Wars 2

CMF.5461:

All “what if’s” aside, what I would like to see as a true solution to the stat issue at the core of the idea is to give us a reliable condition on crit to take advantage of the tree as it is now.

What condition, is the issue. More burning? Bleed? Torment? Poison?

Bleed or torment would be the most damaging solution, but do we need it?

Poison would cause more capability to kill other bunker classes, so a more strategic condition, but it doesn’t take advantage of condition damage as much.

Burning is already plentiful, and I just don’t see it as advantageous.

Thoughts?

Um no, as it’s been pointed out either option would push guardians into the OP category. Maybe something needs to be added, but whatever it is can not be damage. Guardians are already very strong as it is.

A defensive option would be cool, or a unique utility. This nonsense of more damage though is never going to happen. Not without some major nerfs to other parts of the guardian kit.

Power/Condition duration makes perfect sense if my sense of what direction Guardians are being taken in by Anet is correct.

If you look at what Necromancers and Guardians got on the Jul 26 patch in their Power lines, they’re very similar changes design wise. Necros got Dhuumfire, which gives burning on crits, which as you know doesn’t stack in intensity. For any X condition damage the only way to get more total damage out of burning is to extend the duration. Guardians one and only damaging condition is Burning, and what did we get? A condition damage per power conversion trait.

To me, this signals that Anet is very keen on condition damage/power hybrid builds. One of the big Necromancer builds right now is 30/30/x/x/x with Axe/Focus and Scepter/Dagger. They go between stacking massive Vuln and doing good Power-based damage with the axe to AOE condition bombing with Scepter and Epidemic. Hint hint: Where do we stack Vuln? Our Power and Precision lines.

Guardians are kind of stumbling in that direction too, right now. Permeating Wrath turns a Whirling Wrath into a ridiculous AOE burning bomb on account of the number of hits in a short amount of time. Where are the Greatsword traits? Zeal. Where did they just put a condition damage trait based on power? Zeal. In other words, they’re basically saying “Hey, Zeal and Virtues have a really interesting synergy right now.”

The problem with this can be looked at in two ways. On the one hand, there is absolutely no way to get enough Condition Damage to make speccing fully into burns worthwhile while still keeping solid Power-based direct damage on the table, like a Necromancer can. The other side of that coin is that if we had access to more damaging conditions, that would flip and suddenly having condition duration on the Power tree makes sense again for a hybrid build.

What I think should happen personally, assuming Anet is unwilling to give us more than one damaging condition (though I suspect that they will, and that they’re setting us up for it) is that Kindled Zeal should instead be turned into a massive conversion of power to condition damage in order to make speccing heavily into Burning more worthwhile. Something like 50% or even greater. Then, Permeating Wrath should be subbed into Radiance as a Grandmaster trait, and Perfect Inscriptions merged with another Signets trait, because let’s be real – no one uses PI. Then Virtues can pick up something else to fill the void.

With this kind of a setup, suddenly Guardians can have a Power/Condition Damage hybrid build using a Power line and Precision line synergy just like Necromancers can. The trade-off is that if you want Permeating Wrath you have to give up Right Handed Strength, but because you’re using a Greatsword to pull this off anyway on account of speccing into Zeal, that’s okay. If you don’t want to spec into Zeal, you still have a good AOE condition damage option on account of Permeating Wrath in Radiance, and can run whatever weapons you like while taking advantage of defensive traitlines. The downside is your burns won’t last nearly as long.

That’s my take on it.

The idea was to promote a precision/condition damage set up to give us a sort of “condition” build, which would have to be insacrifice of power or crit damage to not give us pow/pre/critD AND viable condD.

I understand your concerns, but you are thinking in one direction and twisting everything to that one corner.

I want to make a meaningful mechanic out of what we have that is currently a dead end, which is Precision and Condition Damage linked together.

edit:

Your post poped up after my quick response foofad, but I whole heartedly agree with a lot of your post.

They are trying to find a way to give us condition damage, but it isn’t there yet. Due to in part the fact that we have one condition, and also that our abilities are not supporting the power/conD as well as necros did.

Zeal/Virtues has an amazing synergy, but it doesn’t seem viable enough yet.

So the question is, what is missing. You pointed out we are lacking condition damage with that combination, but what else could be done if that is not the applicable answer?

Okay, but every other class with decent condition build options also has the option of running a hybrid successfully. So I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to give us the option of having hybrids in addition to a “pure” condition damage spec. Like I said, hybrid Power/Condition Damage necromancers are very good right now. Hybrid Power/Condition Damage Engineers also work well, thinking specifically of Grenade Kits. Same deal with Staff Mesmers swapping to Sword/x for direct damage, and so on and so on…

Edit: Oops, thought you were talking to me. My bad. Posted before your edit.

I don’t know the right direction, and I’m open to all ideas to spark brain storming and maybe the devs will start thinking along the same lines, if they are not already.

Hybrid, yes, which suggest a reduction somewhere to gain a little bit of everything but not all of everything.

So a sacrifice somewhere to gain viable condition usage, but not play into the fears of some of the above posters of making us OP damage demons that have it all. I don’t know if I agree with them on how amazing and OP it would be, as most people like to post “guardian is fine, move on”.

edit: lol np foofad

CMF.5461:

That is why I was suggesting a “on crit” effect to give guardians the same stat synergy with precision and condition damage that other classes have.

It could be a 60% chance on crit to cause 3 seconds of torment.

Numbers I’m sure can be adjusted to be more optimal but not OP. Would it be a major or a minor trait? Maybe remove Spirit weapons cause burning and replace it with this new conditions on crit trait.

Stop saying my ideas before i get to post my giant trait thread of doom…

lol bash, my bad.

CMF,

I like what you are saying, but it would ruin my 1h+ permeating wrath build and force me to use the GS. :< I thought that maybe they should combine permeating wrath and supreme justice.

Very true, changing what we have now may ruin currently working builds. I guess that is why some are against changes.

I don’t know the best way to save current builds while introducing new mechanics unfortunately, but I would hope new changes would all be beneficial and not negative.

CMF.5461:

Very true, changing what we have now may ruin currently working builds. I guess that is why some are against changes.

I don’t know the best way to save current builds while introducing new mechanics unfortunately, but I would hope new changes would all be beneficial and not negative.

It would be hard I think.

Speaking of permeating wrath, I think one of the changes they should make in addition with what I said was to make permeating wrath affect the active effect as well. I’m not sure why it currently doesn’t.

In regards to radiance, I feel the signet traits are odd. I’ve tried running them and while they are ok, they pale in comparison to other condition removal options we have. Ultimately, I think the core issue is that many of the Guardian trait design lacks basic synergy.

CMF.5461:

I don’t know the right direction, and I’m open to all ideas to spark brain storming and maybe the devs will start thinking along the same lines, if they are not already.

Hybrid, yes, which suggest a reduction somewhere to gain a little bit of everything but not all of everything.

So a sacrifice somewhere to gain viable condition usage, but not play into the fears of some of the above posters of making us OP damage demons that have it all. I don’t know if I agree with them on how amazing and OP it would be, as most people like to post “guardian is fine, move on”.

edit: lol np foofad

The main problem is that the sacrifice would have to be in our damage either through a coefficient, or some other meaningful way. If they did not then our already impressive damage would be pretty crazy. As it stands right now we pack very impressive direct damage, and only meager armor ignoring damage. This allows some counter play, but also allows us to keep up with the current meta. If they switched our profession to take more advantage of the current meta, then the sacrifice would have to come from our direct damage. It would also be a pretty big hit.

Personally I don’t understand how anyone can not realize how strong guardians are right now. I’m sure if you try running an AH build you might not feel it (players like stunningstyles excluded).

They must avoid putting more damage into either zeal/radiance. If they don’t then they will have to nerf us.

I don’t think anyone anywhere in this thread didn’t say guardians were not strong.

We are trying to help grow the guardian and open new avenues, but again you are only thinking along one aspect of the situation.

I am not asking for raw damage and condition damage. I am not asking for full defense and full offense, I am not saying guardians suck, I am not saying guardians can only run AH, I am not saying bunker guardian is the only way to go.

But you insist on thinking those are the things I am saying.

CMF.5461:

I don’t think anyone anywhere in this thread didn’t say guardians were not strong.

We are trying to help grow the guardian and open new avenues, but again you are only thinking along one aspect of the situation.

I am not asking for raw damage and condition damage. I am not asking for full defense and full offense, I am not saying guardians suck, I am not saying guardians can only run AH, I am not saying bunker guardian is the only way to go.

But you insist on thinking those are the things I am saying.

From what I gather you are asking that guardians get a viable condition build. If I’m wrong then I’m sorry, but that’s what I thought you were asking for. I’m explaining to you why that’s a bad idea. Currently we have two main ways of building. We can go with a bunker, or we can go with a damage build. There are mixtures of the two that are good also, but neither excels at what the other does. If Guardians got that third path then one of the other two would have to suffer for it. It opens up a pressure build that can go with either of the other options because there is no way with the amount of trait points we have to eliminate that option. Right now our condition damage serves as a small pressure for a burs, or a small pressure for a bunker.

Imagine holding a point against a cleric bunker guardian, that also was capable of putting out good condition damage. It would be broken as hell. Imagine getting pressured by a burst guardian, but instead of having to sustain through a burst you also had to sustain through a pressure setup too. Sure some professions can pull off the above, but those professions are currently getting nerfed and the devs have made it clear they aren’t done with the nerfs.

There is no way to maintain the strength Guardians have now and to add viable other paths. It would require a full remake of certain traits/trees which would effectively reduce the current setups we have now.

I’m not trying to be a kitten, I’m trying to explain to you that right now I can burst down certain professions/specs within 2 seconds and there is no way they can add to that without Guardians being broken. I’m also trying to explain to you that they can’t add another viable build option without increasing the strength I already have as a guardian.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CMF.5461:

I don’t know the right direction, and I’m open to all ideas to spark brain storming and maybe the devs will start thinking along the same lines, if they are not already.

Hybrid, yes, which suggest a reduction somewhere to gain a little bit of everything but not all of everything.

So a sacrifice somewhere to gain viable condition usage, but not play into the fears of some of the above posters of making us OP damage demons that have it all. I don’t know if I agree with them on how amazing and OP it would be, as most people like to post “guardian is fine, move on”.

edit: lol np foofad

The main problem is that the sacrifice would have to be in our damage either through a coefficient, or some other meaningful way. If they did not then our already impressive damage would be pretty crazy. As it stands right now we pack very impressive direct damage, and only meager armor ignoring damage. This allows some counter play, but also allows us to keep up with the current meta. If they switched our profession to take more advantage of the current meta, then the sacrifice would have to come from our direct damage. It would also be a pretty big hit.

Personally I don’t understand how anyone can not realize how strong guardians are right now. I’m sure if you try running an AH build you might not feel it (players like stunningstyles excluded).

They must avoid putting more damage into either zeal/radiance. If they don’t then they will have to nerf us.

I don’t agree. Because I see it in a different perspective, guardian damage is easily avoidable by simply moving or kiting the guardian. If the class had decent mobility in its current state I would agree with what you are saying. But since in many cases they will be locked in place to deliver optimal damage, it negates the notion that their damage is top of the line.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I’m not trying to be a kitten, I’m trying to explain to you that right now I can burst down certain professions/specs within 2 seconds and there is no way they can add to that without Guardians being broken. I’m also trying to explain to you that they can’t add another viable build option without increasing the strength I already have as a guardian.

What are they standing still?

I really don’t see the issue. Guardian and I guess Ranger are the only two classes I can think of that don’t have good condition builds. No one screams “nerf necromancer conditions” because they can already swing a good direct damage build, just like no one screams nerf Elementalists because they can swing a good bunker as well as conditions.

Why would giving a third build have to make the others suffer?

You can’t have all 3 builds at the same time, so by going down one build set up you would sacrifice the benefits of the other build sets.

Now with the stat spread and how close they are, I do agree that some balancing could be made to change stat placement and provide more diversity.

Also, what is wrong with a condition burst spec, or a bunker condtion set up? Engineer, mesmer, elementalist, and necromancers have some interesting options of being hard to kill while having counter pressure with conditions.

As mentioned earlier, the new necro setup has a strong direct damage and condition damage pressure to provide offensive burst. I am not proficient at all the professions, but I try to keep tabs on them in general so I understand what I am fighting.

Even warriors, who arguably were horrible in spvp have a useful condition set up with the longbow, direct damage burst set up with greatsword or axes, and a bunker set up with hammer and I think it was banners and shouts?

Engineers started off as sort of bunker setups with turrets and lots of healing, and have moved to a mobile hard to kill but provide a lot of condition pressure with HGH.

Mesmers have a shatter direct damage build, condition via illusions and scepter I think, build and all the while difficult to lock down because of the mobility, which is not “bunker” per say, but they can make it difficult to claim a point while still doing damage.

Hard to kill elementalists are with conditions already well known, and they also have bursty direct damage set ups as well as is seen on the forums lately.

I am sure there are exceptions to all the examples and somewhere that will prove me wrong, but I just think that guardians should advance more than just the majority of bunker/support and a few burst direct damage guardians here and there.

Condition is the only thing we don’t have, but that is where the meta is right now, so we are at odds with the current meta. That doesn’t mean we can’t play in the current game, but we have to do it differently.

edit:

Rangers do have a fairly strong condition set up, and the new spirit build I have been seeing has strong condition pressure, while still being mobile and hard to kill. Not bunkery per say but can put out damage and stay alive for a bit.

CMF.5461:

Why would giving a third build have to make the others suffer?

You can’t have all 3 builds at the same time, so by going down one build set up you would sacrifice the benefits of the other build sets.

Now with the stat spread and how close they are, I do agree that some balancing could be made to change stat placement and provide more diversity.

Also, what is wrong with a condition burst spec, or a bunker condtion set up? Engineer, mesmer, elementalist, and necromancers have some interesting options of being hard to kill while having counter pressure with conditions.

As mentioned earlier, the new necro setup has a strong direct damage and condition damage pressure to provide offensive burst. I am not proficient at all the professions, but I try to keep tabs on them in general so I understand what I am fighting.

Even warriors, who arguably were horrible in spvp have a useful condition set up with the longbow, direct damage burst set up with greatsword or axes, and a bunker set up with hammer and I think it was banners and shouts?

Engineers started off as sort of bunker setups with turrets and lots of healing, and have moved to a mobile hard to kill but provide a lot of condition pressure with HGH.

Mesmers have a shatter direct damage build, condition via illusions and scepter I think, build and all the while difficult to lock down because of the mobility, which is not “bunker” per say, but they can make it difficult to claim a point while still doing damage.

Hard to kill elementalists are with conditions already well known, and they also have bursty direct damage set ups as well as is seen on the forums lately.

I am sure there are exceptions to all the examples and somewhere that will prove me wrong, but I just think that guardians should advance more than just the majority of bunker/support and a few burst direct damage guardians here and there.

Condition is the only thing we don’t have, but that is where the meta is right now, so we are at odds with the current meta. That doesn’t mean we can’t play in the current game, but we have to do it differently.

edit:

Rangers do have a fairly strong condition set up, and the new spirit build I have been seeing has strong condition pressure, while still being mobile and hard to kill. Not bunkery per say but can put out damage and stay alive for a bit.

Because for some reason people have the notion that guardian would be overpowered. But it doesn’t make sense how this would happen. Guardian doesn’t have burst and compared to the other classes their dps is fairly low. They are a sustained class, we can all agree upon that. Condition dmg is sustained damage, so the proposal of a viable condition dmg build makes sense.

CMF.5461:

Condition is the only thing we don’t have, but that is where the meta is right now, so we are at odds with the current meta. That doesn’t mean we can’t play in the current game, but we have to do it differently.

That’s kind of the point though, right now we are sort of a counter to the current meta. By keeping guardians where they are they can control how crazy that meta gets.

As for the classes you’ve mentioned each one of them are on the chopping block for nerfs. Necros just underwent a slight nerf last patch, and it’s already been stated that they are going to get more. I will edit in the thread.

The thing about being tanky + having strong condition damage is that it turns you into something completely different. Kill pressure while also having an incredible defense is a very tight rope to walk. Rangers felt the bite of having that a few patches ago. They could build bunker, and still put out pressure. The end result was a wave of nerfs, and probably more (they don’t need it) in the near future.

If you look back each time you end up with a class that can effectively bunker while still putt out good pressure they must get nerfed.

Could they somehow redo our traits to make it work, maybe but it would mean condensing some of our most important traits down to single traits and putting them very high in a tree similar to what they did with warrior/mesmer. It would be a pretty massive rework though. I personally would like a rework so that we could have viable options aside from you build X or Y. In it’s current form it can not happen though, and it shouldn’t happen.

I really don’t see the issue. Guardian and I guess Ranger are the only two classes I can think of that don’t have good condition builds. No one screams “nerf necromancer conditions” because they can already swing a good direct damage build, just like no one screams nerf Elementalists because they can swing a good bunker as well as conditions.

Rangers had an amazing condition/bunker build. They got nerfed pretty hard too.

As for Guardian mobility that’s an issue with your play style/build and not something to address here.

I guess I understand your concerns then GSSBlunaspike. Each of those classes do go through a series of nerfs, but the builds are not dead.

The mechanics are still there, but the impact is lessened so that they are not overpowering. Having a bunker with condition damage was apparently an initial intent with the class since they put burn on block in the traits, but it never really reached fruition.

We do need more diversity, and I think condition builds are the thing we are missing, but it needs to be introduced in not an overpowering way.

Offensive and defensive hybrid of condition damage would be great, and we are sort of at a cross roads to achieve that with how well we sustain at the moment and the new introduction of power to condition damage traits.

I think foofad has his finger on the pulse right now and has described the actions of the devs fairly well.

As far as mobility, if you use greatsword/sword/JI/swiftness (staff or shouts), then you have fairly decent mobility.

I found greatsword and staff work well for moving quickly with the swiftness and the leap of faith on fairly quick cooldowns. Add some boon duration on it and you have perma swiftness.

I pulled out my old Guardian (mostly because he’s my only heavy class and I’ve been growing tired of playing the light and medium classes), and I can’t tell what anyone here is talking about when they say Radiance and/or Zeal are bad. I’m running him with both of those, and he’s fine. Better than fine! He’s nearly unkillable. Mace/Shield is awesome for both damage and survivability. He hits with burning, regen, aegis, might, and I think I saw some swiftness occasionally proc. In PvE, he was getting Vets down to half before they started to do telling damage to him, and in PvP, switching to Scepter/Torch, he was holding his own quite nicely while kiting. I can’t see anything wrong with Radiance and Zeal. shrug Maybe I’m just playing him wrong and it’s turning out right.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I’m not trying to be a kitten, I’m trying to explain to you that right now I can burst down certain professions/specs within 2 seconds and there is no way they can add to that without Guardians being broken. I’m also trying to explain to you that they can’t add another viable build option without increasing the strength I already have as a guardian.

I am sorry, but the spec/builds that do things like that are gimmick specs at best. And only work against other glass cannon specs when jumping them. Adding a condition based spec is NOT going to hurt guardian if done correctly, and at worse case will just shift our base damage towards conditions, which honestly as a guardian, the class with the least amount of CC abilities, is good, as it allows us to keep some sort of damage on kiting classes.

i personally would love more hybrid condition Guardian. i know some folk on here have been running some, and even on youtube, in WvW/PvP with success. again, i’m still tryign to work on one and previously i played a build with full Radiance and full Virtues to make sure of your burning traits, condition damage, as well as using one handed weapons for the fast burnign procs / RHS for added crit chance. damage wise it was great, it was more the sustainability of the build that had issues. at the same time, though speccing heavily for condition damage and trying to find a balance between that and raw power, if i was faced up against 1 or 2 foes, i wouldn’t be able to apply enough pressure to that my lack of sustainability was not an issue.

again, if we were to spec for a hybrid condi build, we wouldn’t get the burst builds. nor would we be able to be completely bunker. we can never have all, and perhaps some people would greatly enjoy playing a build of attrition and not just through burning or retal. it’s like what Bash just said, allowing us to deal with kiting classes in more ways than one.

not saying that we’re unable to do so at the right moment, but you do need to ahve certain builds or weapons to readily deal with classes that remain out of our range most of the fight. so adding viable conditions wouldn’t hurt i don’t think.

personally, i would still LOVE to see more chill incorproated into our traits. over torment or bleeds. which adds to our arsenal where we really lack some soft CC. and i am slightly because i am a Norn Guard, and snow. lol. though Chill doesn’t do “condition damage” per se, so in this case, it doesn’t directly relate to the Radiance line as you’d want to be more focused on duration for an effect like chill or cripple.

hmmm.

CMF.5461:

That is why I was suggesting a “on crit” effect to give guardians the same stat synergy with precision and condition damage that other classes have.

It could be a 60% chance on crit to cause 3 seconds of torment.

Numbers I’m sure can be adjusted to be more optimal but not OP. Would it be a major or a minor trait? Maybe remove Spirit weapons cause burning and replace it with this new conditions on crit trait.

I am highly agains that one.
I actually though about major adept trait from this
but keep the hands away from mine “A Fire Inside” :P

but really actually we can roll nice burning/whatever hybrid and that is in some ways viable…

I see no problem with having condition damage in the precision line. Sword and scepter tend to proc passive VoJ most and with VoJ renewal on kills, you can have a high burning up-time without adding to condition duration. 1h weapons also pair well with Torch, which adds to the burning. It’s a decent damage bonus for a secondary stat and fits well in the trait line.

Adding a condition chance on crit for a lower DPS condition won’t change a thing. First, you’d have to replace a minor trait, and I don’t think anyone would give up any of the current minor traits in Radiance. Even if it was a chance for bleed on crit, it’s still not that much damage. You need a weapon that can stack conditions for a condi damage build to work and probably want cover conditions. And pure condition damage builds aren’t common (in terms of quantity of builds) and I’m not sure if they were intended for every professions.

I would say the worst fit for a secondary stat is condition duration in zeal. It helps with keeping burning up for Fiery Wrath, but guardians have few conditions, damaging or not, that last long enough to heavily benefit from condition duration.

It’s a shame our vulnerability output got crippled in the last patch – I’d like to see more ways of keeping a higher amount of sustained vulnerability stacks on opponents than we currently have.
Other professions seem to load up more bonuses on their “on immobalize” and “on blind” traits than guardians do. It’s unfortunate that chill/cripple on immobalize would be completely useless.
What’s left? Torment on blind?
% Chance to fart poison on dodge?

CMF.5461:

Beyond taking radiance for the obvious benefit of precision and a few traits of choice, it has horrible synergy because it gives us condition damage.

Isn’t this just more of a ’condition damage sucks on Guardian ’statement than anything? I find that Radiance gives great synergies if you use condition damage.

As a condition damage user, I find the stat spread really great … I’m going for condition damage anyways and at least Rad 15. The precision is just free damage for me. I think if your perspective is that condition damage is garbage, then anything related to will be a waste. If your perspective is a little more open minded, you find that Radiance makes a little more sense.

Wrong, I like condition damage. What I noticed is every class has a condition damage on crit synergy but us.

So was looking to see what the community thought about that fact.

Best counter argument I heard so far is that radiance favors 1h and sword procs lots of burning based off multi hit, so we sort of have a condition damage weapon in 1h sword.

It isn’t a direct on crit style condition damage thing, but it sort of makes sense I guess.

I was just looking for avenues to advocate on crit utilization since we get precision and condition damage together in that tree.

What we do have with on crit synergy are boons and healing/dodging.

So if precision and healing power or precision and boon duration were together, that would make more sense for our profession. But what would that break/hinder if that change were made.

So bottom line: I “want” condition damage, but I want to use it better with the synergies that they are providing us at the moment.

I am really warming on the idea of on crit torment for guardians, even if restricted to sword or some select weapons.

I will admit I never taken notice of the other professions crit/CDamage synergies (my curiosity is peaked). What I think of that lack of synergy for Guardians?

I think that disassociation between CDamage and ‘other stuff’ is actually part of what makes condition damage advantageous for Guardians, in terms of freedom to build and choose weapons and in terms of CDamage ‘stuff’ developments coming out of Anet.

I do think that if there is a possibility for CDamage to become a more prominent damage I would still not want it linked to other offensive stats or weapons. That would kill the diversity. I don’t really want to see a situation where the best condition damage build means you take weapon X along with armor set Y and a minimum of 40 trait points in various stuff.

If I were to suggest an area where CDamage improvement could be made without targeting specific traits or weapons, it would be to implement a new ‘condition damage multiplier’ stat or perhaps the current crit damage stat could do that somehow in a dual role?

I could also see a situation where running two specific conditions (burning + chill) or if a condition is running in a field or while a finisher is being performed, some added effect comes into play.

What would you guys think of some sort of “consume fire stacks to cause damage” effect. Like activating VoJ would wipe all the burning off a target but cause the damage it “would” do to activate instantly.

Long cool down, possible burst to expedite our potential damage with burning. This would change it to direct damage though, and be prone to blocks and blinds and mitigation of armor/protection.

Not really condition damage, but a play on the mechanics we have, sort of makes it a mesmer shatter in a ways.

A ‘Combust’ option would be interesting but I wouldn’t want to see it happen on Active VoJ. I think for something like that, you would want to apply burning first, then active your combust. Sounds to me like a great replacement for Torch #5.

CMF.5461:

What would you guys think of some sort of “consume fire stacks to cause damage” effect. Like activating VoJ would wipe all the burning off a target but cause the damage it “would” do to activate instantly.

Long cool down, possible burst to expedite our potential damage with burning. This would change it to direct damage though, and be prone to blocks and blinds and mitigation of armor/protection.

Not really condition damage, but a play on the mechanics we have, sort of makes it a mesmer shatter in a ways.

What about:

When you attack a enemy who is affected by burning, you gain fury and 5 stacks of might. Since guardian is a boon warrior, that could fit the theme of the class.

As I reached this last post I did think of “combustion” for the guardian. How bout this:
- 66% chance to deal 75% burning damage (as direct damage) x duration on crit
- cleanses burning off the target

There’s your crit AND condition damage. Issues I can see are 5 people applying 20 secs of burning on 1 target while the guard nukes it for 15 secs worth of burning in 1 crit.

If this is too much, then it could be changed to:
- 66% chance to reduce burn duration on a target by 1 sec
- deal 1 sec worth of burning damage (as direct damage) to the target

Seetoo.9316:

As I reached this last post I did think of “combustion” for the guardian. How bout this:
- 66% chance to deal 75% burning damage (as direct damage) x duration on crit
- cleanses burning off the target

There’s your crit AND condition damage. Issues I can see are 5 people applying 20 secs of burning on 1 target while the guard nukes it for 15 secs worth of burning in 1 crit.

If this is too much, then it could be changed to:
- 66% chance to reduce burn duration on a target by 1 sec
- deal 1 sec worth of burning damage (as direct damage) to the target

Would be better to have something like “sword deals 5% more damage, when you crit on a target that is burning apply torment” or a slow of some sort.

Imma say no on bleed/torment, but only on the premise that fire cauterized. And is particularly good against bleeding. But hey “magic” right

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Seetoo.9316:

As I reached this last post I did think of “combustion” for the guardian. How bout this:
- 66% chance to deal 75% burning damage (as direct damage) x duration on crit
- cleanses burning off the target

There’s your crit AND condition damage. Issues I can see are 5 people applying 20 secs of burning on 1 target while the guard nukes it for 15 secs worth of burning in 1 crit.

If this is too much, then it could be changed to:
- 66% chance to reduce burn duration on a target by 1 sec
- deal 1 sec worth of burning damage (as direct damage) to the target

Would be better to have something like “sword deals 5% more damage, when you crit on a target that is burning apply torment” or a slow of some sort.

that is interesting idea IMO..
(and animation of guardian burning on blue each time it will proc ^.^(like torch#4))

Seetoo.9316:

Imma say no on bleed/torment, but only on the premise that fire cauterized. And is particularly good against bleeding. But hey “magic” right

Well it kind of makes sense that the burning would hurt them when they move.

Honestly you could do something like fear for 2 seconds on a 10 second internal cd. There are a few good conditions that would fit with the fire thing,

Not really inline with the topic of the post being about on crit condition application.

As far as for burning secondary effects, I always thought a trait that reduced damage done by burning targets would be interesting. That is inline with the defensive aspect of the Guardian, adds group utility/support, and makes prolonged burning more meaningful, than passive damage.

CMF.5461:

Not really inline with the topic of the post being about on crit condition application.

As far as for burning secondary effects, I always thought a trait that reduced damage done by burning targets would be interesting. That is inline with the defensive aspect of the Guardian, adds group utility/support, and makes prolonged burning more meaningful, than passive damage.

That sounds like a really cool trait. I would love to see something like that. It even makes sense for the feel of the guardian.

Pokemon did reduced attack stat from being burned. Just to toss that out there.

I think we can use some of the existing system mechanics etc. to achieve our goals. Torment is already in the game, so we can easily apply that to a trait. Also, we could pull something like Terror that Necromancer’s have, and turn chill into stacks of frostbite and such things.

I’ve got some other ideas that’ve just escaped my mind, so I’ll come back when they’re back.

oooh. wait, what about a trait that causes chill on burned targets? or is that too OP? lol i am thinking something along the lines or dry ice. and how it can give that feeling of burning. scorching ice. chilling flames. searing permafrost. what have you.

maybe it could be chill for X seconds on each application of burn. and since we have such reliable ways of aplpying burns, maybe there could be a CD as well.

though again, condi damage doesn’t affect chill. ://

Y’know you can pick up chill on crit sigils, right? Two seconds every ten seconds. Not bad on scepters for catching fleeing foes. And at night time, Ghost Pepper Poppers are brutal.

ya, i use thoseoccasionally. or hydromancy, which i prefer over ice, if i know i’m gonna be in your face the whole time and plan to be in small group fights. but the more chills the better i say! ; ))

and lately, i’ve been using more force sigils and the like for damage. or if someone wanted to run energy sigils but also apply chills… for example. so that would just open up more sigil choice if it were embedded into our traits is all.

[edit: typos and to add – i just REALLY liked the idea or burning ice! lol]

Sadly weapon swap and on crit sigils share a cooldown, or I’d say run Hydromancy and Ice at the same time, which would be magical.