Guild Wars 2

I’ve been leveling with a Guardian using Sword/Torch, and to me it seems fine. The sword’s fast attacks proc my Virtue of Justice, and gives me a teleport to get close to my enemies; whereas the torch’s 4 skill passively burns enemies around my guardian! (I rarely use the active throw on the torch skill, I like the AoE burning more than the damage, I may just not understand it yet). To boot, I’ve found my Torch 5 skill to be good for burning big mobs while strafing away from them, or to cure conditions on my allies.

So here’s my question
Is torch really bad? With my experience it’s been pretty good, and I don’t really like focus or shield. I’m going for the legendary torch so I’d like to know more about the torch’s strengths and weaknesses.

I use scepter and torch and get 16-20k total crit damage with torch (#5) but I guess most guardians want to be close to useless on ranged fights with staff, in relation to your question, no, torch is not bad. It also offers some good aoe with mobs going into the 30-40k damage in a big mob. The only disadvantage is that torch gets a bad rap from most guardians and the cooldowns which to me aren’t that bad

Well, here’s the thing…

Guardians already have a ton of ways to apply burning or remove conditions.
So, Zealot’s Flame and Cleansing Flame aren’t all that game-changing.

The Focus has the ability to cure conditions AND grant regeneration. The 3-hit block is really useful in the right situations too.

The Shield is overall superior for supportive defense, granting protection, projectile-defense, and a heal.

Those are fight-changing stuff to have.

The Torch is a damage-focused item.

Most Guardians feel they have enough damage, and are focused more towards support and control.

So, it’s not that Torch is bad. It’s just unpopular.

I use the torch from time to time, when mobility is very important. I think its a great weapon. The only weakness I can see with the touch is that it’s not the best choice for defense but that’s why we have two weapon sets to pick from.

To answer your question, the torch is not a bad weapon it has fairly quick CD compared to the shield and focus. I think most players that are giving it a bad rap primarily use two handed weapons for AOE instead. IMO all Guardian weapons are good when I play sometimes my biggest dilemma is choosing which weapon I am going to wreak havoc with for the day.

well I use Sword and torch in pvp and i must tell you, I do insane damage
the build i’ve made it was for gs sword/torch and it was thinking to use more the gs but I do so much damage with the torch that most of the times I forgot to switch, at least i did, i don’t play guardian for quite a while

Shield and Focus offer a lot more utility for group and solo play.

Just my 2 cents.

I’m loving Mace / Torch a lot, personally. Mace has enough defense as it is that you don’t really need more defense (though I do switch to Focus for situations where I know I’m going to need even more) and Torch, specifically Zealot’s Flame, gives you an extremely nice damage boost, especially when you wade into the center of a group. Mace isn’t all that good at triggering Justice, so Flame is very useful for burning in that regard.

Zealot’s Flame is really, really good for this weapon combation IMO. High AoE damage (and honestly even high single-target damage) on a short cooldown? Very nice. But perhaps the best thing about it is the zero cast time, which works particularly nice with Mace because you can use it in the middle of any of your other skills (all of which are somewhat slow) without interrupting them. Being able to lay down a damaging AoE without interrupting my basic attack chain and losing the final power hit / heal? Being able to block and at the same time burn everything around? Aw yah.

Cleasing Flame is… good. Its not amazing like Zealot’s Flame, but it can be handy for times when you get in over your head a little (even with Mace’s defense it happens), so you can still damage a group while backing up / circling while waiting for your regen to tic. And you can use it while approaching ranged enemies or just while approaching an enemy in general to start damaging them sooner than you’d normally be able to with Mace (I never use Zealot’s Fire for damaging a far-off enemy unless its the end of an encounter vs a retreating foe, I always want to enter battle with Flame ready to go).

I like Sword / Torch too, though its a tad on the squishy side and doesn’t quite synergize as well (IMO). Teleporting into a group while triggering Zealot’s Fire is very nice, and Cleansing Flame probably gets a bit more mileage as an “attack while retreating” measure because sword gets overwhelmed easier. Sword procs Justice burns more readily than Mace, but its still a 6-second burn from Zealot’s Flame vs a 1-second burn from Justice, so I think its still useful.

Overall I really like Torch. I think its probably my favorite offhand weapon for Guardian (though Focus is right up there as well). The only real complaint I have about it is that Cleansing Flame doesn’t cleanse you, only allies. Kind of a bummer, but then again Guardian has a decent repetoire of cleanse skills / traits as it is, so its not the end of the world or anything.

Focus is just better.

For the majority of situations. You have two weapon sets use both.

Nice scepter + torch combo I like to use in pvp – #2 , #3 (immobilize) , #4 (and press again to throw the flame). leave most enemies with nearly half their hit points in 3 seconds.
To finish them off, use Signet of wrath and switch back to your main weapon to unleash your fury.

Today I use GS / Hammer mostly btw, but torch is also nice in some situations.

A lot has been said above, and it’s all true imo. To sum up:

Torch is purely offensive
Focus & Shield are more defensive/support
Torch’s damage is burning, so a burning/condition build, go for it.
Using sword/torch & feeling squishy? Swap to focus or shield OH or trade ur sword in for a mace if you truly love that torch.

I’ve been leveling using sword/torch since level 2 and I love it. However, Now that I’m about to hit 40, I’m noticing the need for more support skills, so I’ve switched to sword/focus and kept my torch on stand by for the easier killing grounds.

I freaking love torch as support. The condition removal on the #5 skill is invaluable, and the fire breath does lots of damage to boot. The #4, when flung, does a decent hit as well, so you actually have some damage value to boot.

Hickeroar.9734:

I freaking love torch as support. The condition removal on the #5 skill is invaluable

I was under the impression that it did not remove conditions from yourself, just allies.

^^ I believe that anything referring to allies includes yourself as well. That’s why AH works even if you are alone.

Personally, I have found the self-burning from #4 to be an interesting aspect of the torch I haven’t explored yet. It actually makes something useful happen with Radiance 10 through Inner Burning.

Seras.5702:

Hickeroar.9734:

I freaking love torch as support. The condition removal on the #5 skill is invaluable

I was under the impression that it did not remove conditions from yourself, just allies.

That’s what a support guardian should be worried about, no? I’m all about supporting the people who have no decent condition removal. Guards have lots and lots of ways to mitigate the condition damage as well as remove it from themselves.

Obtena.7952:

^^ I believe that anything referring to allies includes yourself as well. That’s why AH works even if you are alone.

Personally, I have found the self-burning from #4 to be an interesting aspect of the torch I haven’t explored yet. It actually makes something useful happen with Radiance 10 through Inner Burning.

Most skills that refer to allies do effect you as well. But Cleansing Flame in particular does not. Its purely for healing other players.

Electro.4173:

Obtena.7952:

^^ I believe that anything referring to allies includes yourself as well. That’s why AH works even if you are alone.

Personally, I have found the self-burning from #4 to be an interesting aspect of the torch I haven’t explored yet. It actually makes something useful happen with Radiance 10 through Inner Burning.

Most skills that refer to allies do effect you as well. But Cleansing Flame in particular does not. Its purely for healing other players.

Which is, in and of itself, a fantastic reason to use it as support.

Torch is not bad but you can’t escape the sexyness of Shield #4 and Focus #5 in dungeon (plus corrupted shield if friggen handsome).

If you need straight up damage, Torch is certainly the best offhand. However, most Guardians want the utility of Focus or Shield.

Worst offhand for guards IMO. You have plenty of sources of burning from trait lines, not to mention Virtue of justice. All you really get is 1 condition curer. Focus in my opinion is strongest followed by shield.

Now I’m trying to remember if I pre-bought a lvl80 exotic focus or torch for my almost-80 guardian. I wanna say focus now…even though I love the torch.

Mace/torch is definitely one of my favorite weapon sets when leveling/soloing. I’ll usually swap to shield though when running with groups for the group utility with protection, bubble, and heal. But on my own I’ll usually start with hammer, leap in, then swap to mace/torch and just set everything on fire, finishing them off with the mace symbol and block skills.

I’ve been using Scepter/Torch with a Spirit Weapon build and it works decent. If they try to stay at range, they get chased by my Spirit Weapons and my Scepter dmg. If they come to melee then I have the Torch as defense. I’m also running Sword/Focus for more melee.

Pretty fun build works surprisingly well.

Torch isn’t bad at all. It’s wonderful for what it offers: dependable burning, dependable condition removal, and a good spike. It works well with Radiance/Condition builds, has something to offer every one-handed weapon, and is a classic favorite in a sword/torch Meditations spike build (which, admittedly, I don’t see as often these days).

If Torch gets a bad rap, it’s because we as players often fall into the trap of absolutism. I.E, if it isn’t the best, it’s garbage. So the argument goes that you should never use Torch if you have the option to use Focus. However, Focus doesn’t spread Burning as dependably as Torch; Blind isn’t useful against Champions; Torch arguably offers superior condition removal as well, and synergizes better with the Radiance line. Weapon Swaps also ensure that we’re never stuck with just one weapon.

The Torch is a solid, dependable weapon if you want damage, burning and condition removal. It does take a little finessing with positioning, though.

From some of these posts it seem any bad rap for torch is based on misinformation..torch is NOT a condition weapon, its a power weapon..torch throw ive seen hit for 9k, and cleansing flame scales on power with no burning aspect beyond passive virtue of justice

Scepter + Torch is most likely the best (although this isn’t difficult) DPS mainhand/offhand combination strictly from a damage perspective, since you can throw smite on the ground and then use its #5 attack to overlap damage cooldowns.

Torch #5… epic 6.5k crits at 1200 range. Kite that.

Scepter + Torch + Ji bombs are devistating. You’re just ~squiiiiiiiiishy~. Lots of dodging (energy runes).

I wouldn’t even use Cleansing flames on my enemies in WvW, and rather use it on my allies for op massive condition removal. Can you really ask for a better support?

Btw, if I still want to use Cleansing flames as damage output, I’d rather have at least 3 or more enemies infront of me, since the flames are cone shape AoE .
Otherwise even scepter normal strike will hit for more than the duration of the flames.

I don’t see why people are saying torch is an “offensive” weapon. It’s 5 skill is useful only for healing allies, it does less damage than even the mace AA chain. Number 4 is meh I guess, but there are better ways of applying burn.

Torch needs a buff. If number 5 gets buffed so that it actually does good damage, then I would probably use it because I’m an offense kitten. But until then, torch is really only viable for rangers.

SpelignErrir.4263:

I don’t see why people are saying torch is an “offensive” weapon. It’s 5 skill is useful only for healing allies, it does less damage than even the mace AA chain.

Because you can use the fire breathing over top of scepter’s smite, which can stack up from anywhere between 6k to 10k damage on a single target, and for three targets in a cone you can hit for around 20k or so, or higher depending on your Cleansing Flame mostly since smite gets split between targets. So I wouldn’t say it’s only useful for healing allies, but I would say it’s only useful when paired with Scepter, because you can’t layer other single attacks with Cleansing Flame other than Mace’s symbol.

SpelignErrir.4263:

I don’t see why people are saying torch is an “offensive” weapon. It’s 5 skill is useful only for healing allies, it does less damage than even the mace AA chain. Number 4 is meh I guess, but there are better ways of applying burn.

Torch needs a buff. If number 5 gets buffed so that it actually does good damage, then I would probably use it because I’m an offense kitten. But until then, torch is really only viable for rangers.

Cleansing Flame’s pure damage output isn’t great against a single target. But its got a nice cone AoE that makes it easy to hit multiple enemies (more enemies hit means more total damage dealt, thats when the damage output starts to perform better), and its very effective to use while retreating / straffing.

I’m curious about what the “better ways to apply burn” that people keep mentioning in this topic are. Passive Virtue of Justice gives you a 1-second burn every few hits, probably 2 seconds of burning from the faster multi-hit attacks Guardian’s have. Active Justice gives you a 5-second burn on a single enemy (unless you trait heavily into the Justice line for the AoE burn on Justice). Zealot’s Flame gives you a 9-second burn (6 seconds on activation and another 3 seconds when the flame ends) on up to 3 enemies. Seems to me Zealot’s Flame is the best burn we’ve got, at least unless you’re running with a group so that Justice active can stack burns from multiple players. But maybe I’m missing something.

I’ve used the torch with my scepter in WvW for awhile now and like it a lot. I do like the focus’s 5 skill but I like both the torch’s skills. They both ut out some decent damage.

Torch really requires groups of enemies to make it worthwhile. #4 is decet single target but using the toss increases the cd, #5 solo is weaker than pretty much any auto attack we have. However it shines when using it on groups of enemies and allies. I personnaly run sword+ focus / greatsword and use the greatsword for my AoE.

When I read the subject line, I though “Huh? Is this the mesmer forum?” Mesmer torch is the one that is such a poor weapon that it’s almost like having an empty hand. Guardian torch is a very nice and viable weapon. It’s pure DPS, though. If you want more defense, pickup a focus or shield.