Guild Wars 2

Ok, my first character on gw2 was a guardian. It was fun…except it wasn’t. The character (look and lore) was fun, the world was fun, but the profession, i never ever got along with. I tried hard, really i did, but i could never muster real performance from it, real individuality, real unique role i’d enjoy. Something just didn’t click between me and the guardian, period.

Few years and professions later i come back to guardian…and not a kitten thing changed. When i want to make a build for my necro it’s a textbook case of hard love. It’s difficult, it’s demanding, it can bite you in the kitten , but it is possible and results are worth of the pains.

When i wanna do something with my ranger – breeze. I slab what i need i go in and rock (or die;). With all the pets and some cool trait combinations a lot is possible.

But whenever i feel like making a build for guard…i just feel it’s impossible by design. No matter which turn i take always a wall that cannot be smashed or jumped over.
Like it’s either “run traps or meditations or go home son”.

So, is it just me having an anti-guard gene in my DNA, or is guard really a nightmare when it comes to diverse builds?

It’s as you said. There is no build diversity; medi or trap DH and that is the gist of it. you can go back to burning but with multiple elite classes churning condi like candy its not as effective as it once was.

I’m having a real hard time using my Guardian too, there will always be a population that wants to nerf DH traps and the lot but when you play serious pvpers, DH is not as good as it seems. the only real hope for the future is a balance patch where most of the utilities are re hauled and made effective and opens up more builds because right now what we used months ago is the same thing were using now while other classes get tons of new toys.

I agree with you 100% OP. Any builds I try to make on this class fail pretty quickly. My friend has a bruiser build that works well for him, so I’m gonna try that out before I make any final conclusions about guardians mediocrity in pvp build diversity.

and slow.

It was fun to play pre june 23.

Well what build do you want? PVE? PVP? WvW?
Guard is just not for you then if you prefer the Bear to tank every single thing for you in PVE.

Depend on which mode you are playing, Burn Guard is pretty neat atm since everyone expecting a DH in pvp.

I enjoy using Shield5 while hopping around at Bloomhunger or Fire Shaman eats back its agony attack =x

Burn guard gets hard countered by 60% of the meta builds. DH at least stands somewhat of a chance vs anything other than a tempest.

DH is too predictable, free kill for anyone. For newcomer maybe you could own them, for veteran, yeah, try your luck and wish they step on your trap then.

Because DH doesn’t have much to offer, its straight tactic is truly easy to see through.

Yep, if I am not wrong then guardian is one of the first classes that were implemented into this game and the more I play it and while I study other classes’ traits and skills, the more I think that our core guardian and his weapons were just a test that got stuck in the past.
Though ranger was even earlier unveiled and still has better trait combinations and synergy -_-

DH gets boring so fast, thats why I switched to Scrapper. They are soo fun.

Ragnarox.9601:

DH gets boring so fast, thats why I switched to Scrapper. They are soo fun.

Tell you what ? I main guard for about half a year now and I just gave a slight taste to a bunch of other profs. When I fought scrappers I thought that they are dang skilled due to everyone claiming that it takes lots of perception and button mashing… I’ve never been so wrong.

I rolled my own Scrapp-hurr and all I had to do is just smack that hammer randomly at anything with just a little effort to time a few skills like Whirl on ranged attacks and this kind of thing.
The synergy between traits, 24/7 passives and “unintended” support to other team mates by just smacking everything around.
People claim that the more buttons you have, the harder it gets… I call bull feces cause the more abilities you have, the more opportunities and counter measures you get during a fight. Tis’ a blessing (in short).
Same with elementalist but I do not say that it is unskilled because to play certain classes and builds to its full extent it really takes a bunch of experience and combo building but hey… if you have the capability to do something by pressing a few buttons then there is nothing hard besides learning and honing your skill and perception.

I recall that one time when I fought on ranked with a scrapper as I was on my DH (hambow mediguard – doing quite amazing due to lots of CC). I had a hard time and gave a hard time as well but eventually I was bested.
When I got into my scrapp-hurr, my and that other engineer’s paths were crossed once again.
I thought he was indeed skilled but when I out-gimmicked him with my own play with scrapper, it was just a matter of time before he fell defeated.
I played a fair ammount of matches to encounter all kinds of enemies, solo/duo/premade, skilled/unskilled and I hereby proclaim that playing engineer is not a big deal.

In the end of they day, it is guardian who should fart our boons as well as elementalist/engineer/revenant because this is the very essence of our being to fight and support in the same time.
(Weak kitten shouts are out of the meta – this i’d like to mention)

Rodzynald.5897:

Ragnarox.9601:

DH gets boring so fast, thats why I switched to Scrapper. They are soo fun.

Tell you what ? I main guard for about half a year now and I just gave a slight taste to a bunch of other profs. When I fought scrappers I thought that they are dang skilled due to everyone claiming that it takes lots of perception and button mashing… I’ve never been so wrong.

I rolled my own Scrapp-hurr and all I had to do is just smack that hammer randomly at anything with just a little effort to time a few skills like Whirl on ranged attacks and this kind of thing.
The synergy between traits, 24/7 passives and “unintended” support to other team mates by just smacking everything around.
People claim that the more buttons you have, the harder it gets… I call bull feces cause the more abilities you have, the more opportunities and counter measures you get during a fight. Tis’ a blessing (in short).
Same with elementalist but I do not say that it is unskilled because to play certain classes and builds to its full extent it really takes a bunch of experience and combo building but hey… if you have the capability to do something by pressing a few buttons then there is nothing hard besides learning and honing your skill and perception.

I recall that one time when I fought on ranked with a scrapper as I was on my DH (hambow mediguard – doing quite amazing due to lots of CC). I had a hard time and gave a hard time as well but eventually I was bested.
When I got into my scrapp-hurr, my and that other engineer’s paths were crossed once again.
I thought he was indeed skilled but when I out-gimmicked him with my own play with scrapper, it was just a matter of time before he fell defeated.
I played a fair ammount of matches to encounter all kinds of enemies, solo/duo/premade, skilled/unskilled and I hereby proclaim that playing engineer is not a big deal.

In the end of they day, it is guardian who should fart our boons as well as elementalist/engineer/revenant because this is the very essence of our being to fight and support in the same time.
(Weak kitten shouts are out of the meta – this i’d like to mention)

Scrappers are better because they have better utilities and more condi cleanses, more heal, escape on demand, better passives, better hammer skills, … they offer much more playing stiles than guard.

DH are borring couse You are using traps and wait while hitting auto and lb2. Predictable like hell. No good passives + core guard is bad enough. I defended guard for years but everyone else got better stuff. I don’t even log onto my guard anymore.

As i compare guardian to my necro – guardian’s design fails miserably.

The two are a good comparison because they’re both extreme classes. They’re not jacks of all trades, masters of none. Both are extremely lacking in one area while being supposed masters in another…except the guard is not.

Necro keeps his promise – no one can match his condition manipulation abilities, he even has two sources of additional condi damage if he so chooses – damage from chilling and terror. All the while many of his other aspects also work and synergize well. It is not impossible to have a necro that has reasonable damage along with not too shabby sustain and solid condi cleansing and cc countermesures.

The guard however fails miserably. Not only does it lack something truly unique in terms of team support (no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity) but is easily matched if not bested by both ele and engi in that departament.

The trait layout and syngergies are horrible, getting decent condi cleanse usuallly means seriously gutting something else like damage mitigation or offense. If that wasn’t enough guard’s sustain is very bad – without constant healing he’ll be feet forward before you know it, so another thing that cannot be passed up in your build no matter what, reducing build diversity.
And then there’s the condi play or rather lack of sides burning…

At the end of the day necro stays unique, with his mastery over conditions unmatched by others, and a solid set of utilities and traits allowing for build diversity without being forced to always pick a specific trait or skill for ensured survival, and only then build on top of that.

As for the guard – just ask yourself what is it that guard can do that engi can’t, only better, with more versatility and without crippling condi play? And those traits..

I know, right? Terrific…
Yet I still keep on grinding the bones of my foes with that sweet hambow build because I am a man that likes to throw obstacles on my own road to victory, but dang it the satisfaction after you beat someone with non-meta build.
I wish I could see the reaction of all those fancy meta players that end up wrecked under borderline weak guardian’s hammer.
It takes much patience but once you roll it fine then the fun after beating someone is unimaginable.
(Mighty blow should deal much more damage tbh).

(no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity)

Aegis is guardian’s unique boon

reikken.4961:

(no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity)

Aegis is guardian’s unique boon

Smal correction just cause “unique” sounds as if guardians were the only with aegis.

It is not unique to guard, but guardian is the class that has more aegis, what is unique is how guardians can use the aegis to shatter it remove condis and also heal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis

Aeolus.3615:

reikken.4961:

(no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity)

Aegis is guardian’s unique boon

Smal correction just cause “unique” sounds as if guardians were the only with aegis.

It is not unique to guard, but guardian is the class that has more aegis, what is unique is how guardians can use the aegis to shatter it remove condis and also heal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis

Then they should make it unique to Guardians…

@Amineo.8951 that would be nice, but i guess our unique feacture are called Spirit Weapons.

Aeolus.3615:

@Amineo.8951 that would be nice, but i guess our unique feacture are called Spirit Weapons.

Nope, because they gave Engineers better versions of these, there’s nothing unique to Guardian now, and Thief suffer the same thing with Stealth that Rangers, Mesmers and Engineers (again…) have…

^true…..but at least guards have uniqe useless spirit weapons!
It is a good thing that scrapper gyros didnt went that bad, some on Anet have learned something.
well Anet is trying to make every class have a similiar copy pasta way to play from other classes, they will keep adding weapons and traits wich will i’m guessing now, even guards and warrior will have stealth someday, eles will have their water bow creepa back someday when Anet make that weapon as main etc…

This will lead to alot of problems because it looks they are just doing it because they dont know what else to inovate the classes, and thus might be the easiest or slacking solution to take care of a game.

Aeolus.3615:

^true…..but at least guards have uniqe useless spirit weapons!
It is a good thing that scrapper gyros didnt went that bad, some on Anet have learned something.
well Anet is trying to make every class have a similiar copy pasta way to play from other classes, they will keep adding weapons and traits wich will i’m guessing now, even guards and warrior will have stealth someday, eles will have their water bow creepa back someday when Anet make that weapon as main etc…

This will lead to alot of problems because it looks they are just doing it because they dont know what else to inovate the classes, and thus might be the easiest or slacking solution to take care of a game.

They could revamp the weapons moveset with a real specialisation, GW1 had dual professions, GW2 could have this too but something that fits the base one, like if you have a Guardian, this one can become a Parangon or something, and all weapons have their moveset change with additional skills and elite skill.

That would be to much skills for them to look at imo, dont think they could manage to do that, they cant even do well with the actual system and classes today have what? 1 or 2 mandatory weapon due damage output, rest is mostly useless since has lower damage?

One way or other that is what anet is trying to achieve instead of having dual class system they tune up class X to have Y similiar skills, example of DH and Ranger, the issue is some classes performance itself does not use well stats as others, guardian to make good damage needs to be very squishy while others will still burst easilly on sturdy gear and vice-versa.

One thing that i noticed that is not making this goes well is that every class has acess to same stat value while that value corresponds for too much or a to low performance, each class should have their own stats for armors and toon, depending from what that build/role is being used, with that would be easier to balance.

Aeolus.3615:

reikken.4961:

(no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity)

Aegis is guardian’s unique boon

Smal correction just cause “unique” sounds as if guardians were the only with aegis.

It is not unique to guard, but guardian is the class that has more aegis, what is unique is how guardians can use the aegis to shatter it remove condis and also heal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis

In a way, it is indeed strictly unique to guardian. Other than the two rune sets, only guardian can apply aegis on demand. The only other sources of aegis are mesmer’s randomly selected boons from a set of others, or by converting conditions into boons (specifically, burning turns into aegis). also thief stealing from mesmers

There are difrent builds that do work that dont inbolve medi o meditrapper,but thats for the main guards who played for years,the problem is that with dh ppl tend to go for the old builds and change them to add the dh trait line to it,to actualy make a good dh build you have to give up the old guardian mentality and start from 0 making a build,ive seen in pvp a few guards runnig some nice builds and myself run a celestial bruise build that i do enjoy very much……..the problem are the metabattle so called guards that copy-paste and thats all they know

Guard has always been simplistic with few abilities, easy to understand and use, and DH is a slow moving gimmick by being shut down by reflects. Trapper runes on DH makes it a bit more fun, at least for me.

@ZeftheWicked: You mean “Reaper kept its promise”, not Necro. The Necro class has several structural defects that the Reaper nicely fixed and even improved on. Reaper is probably the most solid class (well-designed, weapons/traits that work together, etc) in the game right now. Given that you only choose two other (non-Reaper) trait lines, Necros do have some build diversity (condition, power, minions), but it’s not as clear as you make it.

I’d also add that the Necro isn’t THE master of conditions. They can manipulate conditions better than other classes (transfer, corrupt), and if a Necro is in a situation where they are able to use Contagion — building off of of conditions that teammates have applied — they’re amazing. Otherwise, not so great: several classes can apply more conditions more quickly than a Necro, and can provide team support (buffs, reflects, etc) while doing so. The Necro provides little team support.

In terms of Chill, it isn’t unique to Necros either. They do have many more traits that strengthen and benefit from Chill, but other classes have more ways to apply it and can do perma-chill as well. Necros do pretty much own Fear, though it’s not really impressive at this point.

Not saying that DH compares to Reaper, but non-Reaper Necros are in worse shape than Guardians of any build, due to not providing any support for their group.

How to build your DH?! ( my main is DH, got to ruby with it, 18 pips atm). I will not help much, just hints:
1. If you play with team, than play condi removal and fast heal, good dps, you will not die, deal lots of dmg, you will be the center .. DH’s are now the primary option to kill in serious pvp teams
2. If you play solo medi – trap ( u must be very careful what skills u choose, the meta medi-trap is crap )
3. If you play stronghold, solo then Nr1 and 2 option is off, don’t ever use those in stronghold… for stronghold one good DH player is the key in victory..it all depends on traits, skills, and player skill.. you even can win against any team, pre-made, like me

reikken.4961:

Aeolus.3615:

reikken.4961:

(no unique boon here, like let’s say mesmer’s alacrity)

Aegis is guardian’s unique boon

Smal correction just cause “unique” sounds as if guardians were the only with aegis.

It is not unique to guard, but guardian is the class that has more aegis, what is unique is how guardians can use the aegis to shatter it remove condis and also heal.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis

In a way, it is indeed strictly unique to guardian. Other than the two rune sets, only guardian can apply aegis on demand. The only other sources of aegis are mesmer’s randomly selected boons from a set of others, or by converting conditions into boons (specifically, burning turns into aegis). also thief stealing from mesmers

Yeah but aegis on mesmer happens alot, when i played mine i had alot of aegis RNG i guess, and still nowadays ive seen blocks one after another when tryed to drop mesmer from a cliff with my shield 5, i ended with my 25khp bursted in 2-3 seconds XD on bunker spec with prot and i could not damage the mesmer with my mace, ive died even in the midle of shelter animation so…i guess there are really strong unnblockable skills, so clever casted aegis wont even save he guard (if i recall something hitted me over 10k, prolly a revenant passign by, i didnt payed much atention to the new specs overhall).

The major problem is that defensive guardian looses alot compared with other classes on defensive roles, we have better aegis management that is unique to the class, but overall it won help much comapred with more dedicated DPS classes on bunker specs.

Druitt.7629:

@ZeftheWicked: You mean “Reaper kept its promise”, not Necro. The Necro class has several structural defects that the Reaper nicely fixed and even improved on. Reaper is probably the most solid class (well-designed, weapons/traits that work together, etc) in the game right now. Given that you only choose two other (non-Reaper) trait lines, Necros do have some build diversity (condition, power, minions), but it’s not as clear as you make it.

I’d also add that the Necro isn’t THE master of conditions. They can manipulate conditions better than other classes (transfer, corrupt), and if a Necro is in a situation where they are able to use Contagion — building off of of conditions that teammates have applied — they’re amazing. Otherwise, not so great: several classes can apply more conditions more quickly than a Necro, and can provide team support (buffs, reflects, etc) while doing so. The Necro provides little team support.

In terms of Chill, it isn’t unique to Necros either. They do have many more traits that strengthen and benefit from Chill, but other classes have more ways to apply it and can do perma-chill as well. Necros do pretty much own Fear, though it’s not really impressive at this point.

Not saying that DH compares to Reaper, but non-Reaper Necros are in worse shape than Guardians of any build, due to not providing any support for their group.

From the start i said it’s about his ability to manipulate conditions. Also which other classes exactly can trait to have damage off chills and fears? I’m all ears.

Shocked i am to say this…but i have to disagree. Power necro (build i’m kinda forced into courtesy of diamond skin ele always running to me with love) is better on core necro. Reaper is better then core in most cases, but when it comes to power damage i strangely find old shroud’s life blast much better for the job and am doing fine atm with it in ruby.

@ZeftheWicked: Never said other classes could trait for damage off of chill or fear. As I said, Necros have more traits that can strengthen or benefit from Chill — which includes damage from Chill. But Chill is useful in its own right, even without damage, and not unique to the Necro by any means.

And I’ll repeat, other professions can apply more stacks of more damaging conditions faster than a Necro and maintain them easier. So damaging Chill and Fear don’t open up a condition gap but rather help to close it and bring the Necro closer to others. The Necro has always had a long ramp-up time compared to other condition builds, and as far as I can tell, still does.

So “Master of Conditions” needs to be clarified. They have considerably more access to Fear, which has been nerfed to death, and isn’t as convenient as other CC. (It also depends on what game mode we’re talking about!) On the plus side, they can trait for it to cause damage during its extremely limited (1 second) lifetime.

They don’t have more access to Chill, though they can trait for it to cause its own damage. On the other hand if, say, an Ele goes all-in on Chill, they can also rune for 7% additional damage (from their Fire and other damage sources) against chilled targets.

Again, in PvE and with strong adds that stand near bosses, a Contagion can blow away anything else in the game, because it’s spreading an entire-teams-worth of condition to the adds.

Glad to hear you’re doing well in sPVP. I don’t play that mode, but as I understand it determined Necros have always done better than the general consensus believes. As I understand it, Life Blast hits very hard, but is slow and is most powerful at mid-range, putting you precariously close to the CC/focus train, and base Necro doesn’t have many escape options (Wurm and… ?).

Maybe i did not clarify it right – mastery over conditions means the ability to manipulate them, not apply them like crazy (which would be ranger’s domain). Agreed on most what you said from that point on – necro indeed has hard coming up with anything vaguely resembling condi burst, his condition game is about constant pressure, but no major bursts save maybe reaper shroud’s soul spiral, but that’s nothing this big.

As for power necro – it’s about melee. Reaper has of damage mitigation, but in pvp it’s also about positioning. As the melee reaper (and shroud is a major part of my play) not only do i have to struggle with ppl getting away from me (for example longbow rangers), but also with the fact, that when in melee it is them who dictate the fight. If i want to damage them i have to be where they are. And they obviously move torwards their teammates where focused death awaits.

As power base necro i got lifeblast that lets me snipe from afar even if it is weaker over 600 range, i’m still not led by my nose into a trap. In practice it’s letting me do some very sweet damage and get ppl downed relatively fast, as long as i don’t push my luck and remember to keep myself in a position that let’s me safely withdraw if things go south.

I have been maining guard for two years. BURN BABY BURN never gets boring for me. I stomp some peasants, avoid getting sworded or arrow’d and achieve BURNINATION. Muahahaha.

Kraljevo.2801:

It was fun to play pre june 23.