Guild Wars 2

Well, you have a free instant 80 dealie now if the patch bugs you that much. If you have been around and done any sort of sPvP you probably have more than enough level tombs anyway so more ways to hit 0 to 80.

meh not impressed, was expecting something similiar, some of the CD are nice but we still see how bad Anet is at balance.

Quozex.9430:

I feel as a class we’ve just been neglected for the past 3 years.

Eh, its not so much neglect as its the ONLY profession in the game that consistently works right and turns in use/success numbers that hover around the midrange. They nerfed one over-performing skill hard and handed out a huge number of small buffs that make you more involved (more buttons off cooldown more often, more willingness to punch the big buttons early). That’s the profile of a class that’s mostly on track. Beyond that we’re on the exact same page about reviewing our forgotten underperformers.

Mikau.6920:

Guys, GIVE UP. There is no reason to even try any more.

Would you? Would you PLEASE? If you don’t have the wherewithal to operate a Guardian/Dragonhunter under these terms then yes, absolutely: GET OUT. GET OUT NOW. because nothing will do a better job of getting some other profession nerfed than a mass exodus to the flavor of the month ((looking at you, Herald)) and I’m sure all the people over in the class you migrate to will be so happy to have a pack of turn-coats stinking up their boards.

And maybe if a few of our more cheese-reliant brethren for whom having to use the whole tool bar is just too hard step out, then maybe the Dev’s will bump the Guardian up the que to look at our diversity (and the lack there of…) issues because there won’t be this cloud of no-talent trap-monkeys skewing our numbers.

Hm. I don’t want to glass DPS so I don’t use dragonhunter, but not only did they nerf dragonhunter burst (again), they didn’t noticeably buff support/healing. I mean, I guess they didn’t nerf hammer so it isn’t all bad? Maybe next round they’ll make Pure of Voice turn 2 conditions into boons.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Hm. I don’t want to glass DPS so I don’t use dragonhunter, but not only did they nerf dragonhunter burst (again), they didn’t noticeably buff support/healing. I mean, I guess they didn’t nerf hammer so it isn’t all bad? Maybe next round they’ll make Pure of Voice turn 2 conditions into boons.

Expect nerf on next update, Anet wont quit until every guardian/Dh plays traps and say “OMG trap is so pro gamming!” even if they dont work well against player with a normal Qi.

The best way to not fix a design issue is to force players embrace what is broken or bad designed.

Aeolus.3615:

King Cephalopod.7942:

Hm. I don’t want to glass DPS so I don’t use dragonhunter, but not only did they nerf dragonhunter burst (again), they didn’t noticeably buff support/healing. I mean, I guess they didn’t nerf hammer so it isn’t all bad? Maybe next round they’ll make Pure of Voice turn 2 conditions into boons.

Expect nerf on next update, Anet wont quit until every guardian/Dh plays traps and say “OMG trap is so pro gamming!” even if they dont work well against player with a normal Qi.

The best way to not fix a design issue is to force players embrace what is broken or bad designed.

Well they forced me to embrace Black desert online. My heart goes to Valkyrie there. See ya laterz untill they fix Guardians/DH.

Nike.2631:

Buran.3796:

I’m surprised about the nerfs, I didn’t expect a single buff, but this is like the third nerf in a row in the single trap I use.

I want you to consider the possibility the reason you use the trap is because it’s overpowered.

I’m looking at the posibility but see: I was seing last monday at Tage (arguably the BEST PvP player which ever used a Guardian in the whole game since the GW2 beta four years ago) trying the best He could against players which aren’t better than Him but use meta classes and the thing is… He couldn’t prevent the defeats.

So, you’re talking about a recently nerfed trap as if it were op whereas the best PvP guardian player in the planet wasn’t able BEFORE THE NERF to take advantage of that naive “overpowerness” supposely has. And meanwhile, almost 0 use of core guardians or DH in the Pro League since the HoT release (and the extremely scarce attempts to use the class were buried in noisy failures).

I’m done with this class. I need to finish like the last 20% of the Entangled map and Dragon Stance and then is over. Rev is competitive in every area of the game and the expensive ascended gear I spent in my Guardian serves me better as a Herald. I did start in the game as a Warrior but I did leave the class for a Guardian after 4 months, and never look back. I don’t like the current state of Guardian/Dragon Hunter in ANY department of the game after this April 19th patch and I will not turn back.

Arnath.2319:

I had to take a moment after reading the patch notes to calm myself. I truly feel personally insulted by the devs, years of constant neglect is borderline inhumane.

For years we have calmly and maturely written well thought out posts with strong evidence to back-up our words, and yet for years we receive mostly silence with the occasional insult from the devs.

What will it take?

I am truly shocked at home a person can be so hurtful and neglective towards another person. i understand that this is just a game and it’s suppose to be just a bit of fun… but i’m not having fun, not when the developers who are meant to be here for us are instead torturing us, treating us like dirt, insulting us, slowly stripping away our sanity.

Do the devs want us to get angry? Make immature rage posts? Spam? For YEARS we have avoided such behavior and yet the devs continue to rub our faces into the dirt.

Respect goes both ways, and the devs have completely lost any respect i once had for them.

Easy there. Maybe it’s because I’m too tired today for a proper rage (had a good one this weekend, was lovely), but it isn’t neglect towards people, it’s just a poorly done job. Like buying a chessboard but the squares are all jank. And the squares have been jank for years. That’s why I don’t purchase gems with real money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nike.2631:

Quozex.9430:

I feel as a class we’ve just been neglected for the past 3 years.

Eh, its not so much neglect as its the ONLY profession in the game that consistently works right and turns in use/success numbers that hover around the midrange. They nerfed one over-performing skill hard and handed out a huge number of small buffs that make you more involved (more buttons off cooldown more often, more willingness to punch the big buttons early). That’s the profile of a class that’s mostly on track. Beyond that we’re on the exact same page about reviewing our forgotten underperformers.

Mikau.6920:

Guys, GIVE UP. There is no reason to even try any more.

Would you? Would you PLEASE? If you don’t have the wherewithal to operate a Guardian/Dragonhunter under these terms then yes, absolutely: GET OUT. GET OUT NOW. because nothing will do a better job of getting some other profession nerfed than a mass exodus to the flavor of the month ((looking at you, Herald)) and I’m sure all the people over in the class you migrate to will be so happy to have a pack of turn-coats stinking up their boards.

And maybe if a few of our more cheese-reliant brethren for whom having to use the whole tool bar is just too hard step out, then maybe the Dev’s will bump the Guardian up the que to look at our diversity (and the lack there of…) issues because there won’t be this cloud of no-talent trap-monkeys skewing our numbers.

Going to bump this, only because so much truth:

1. People can mock Anet all they want but this is yet another patch that confirms that Anet makes changes to keep Guardians in the sweet spot where they want them.
2. If the position of the profession you play in the meta is dissatisfying to you, exercise your options. We know what those are.

Do you not SEE THE BUFFS? Stability changes do more for us than most. We’re getting a sprinkling of damage buffs on 60% of the longbow skills specifically to offset the one spike skill that’s getting toned down. We’re getting cooldown reductions on the core mechanic every Guardian has (f3 on a 60 second base cooldown? seriously where’s the hallelujahs?).

No. It’s all hysterics over a skill getting nerfed that has always been under the watchful eye because it’s built kinda different than most of the game. The most popular/best trap got a shave. Every profession got some caps put on how many things get thumped by walls.

This. Is. Why. They. Ignore. You.

No perspective at all.

You want to talk realpolitik? Let’s get real. Yes: Revenant/Herald is grossly out of tune. NO ONE who actually pays attention to the design style of the individual members of the Balance Team thought the profession lead who brought us corruptly overpowered Warriors for over a year was going to deliver anything else with their new golden child. If history is any guide it’ll be another 6 months before the mounting evidence in the metrics FINALLY overrules the relentless protectionism. So if you have to measure everything about the game’s most stable and consistent performer against broke-as-heck Revenants, then expect some disappointment. Guardians: In a good place. That Revenants are manifestly more powerful DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE IN A BETTER PLACE.

If you live in constant need of chasing the greener grass, yes, go flock to the Revenant and load the scales that much deeper that something is WRONG with that profession vs. any measure of reasonable performance. Because the tide will turn for Revenants and the sooner the better.

Arnath.2319:

…but hey according to some “we are okay so such your mouth and dont complain”.

The amount of selective reading required for that to be your take away is tragic.

No one is happy about Guardian lack of diversity/paltry range of competitive grade tools.
No one is pleased to see Spirit Weapons ignored again.
No one thinks Guardian or Dragonhunter are top teir in PvP.

But this ‘end is nigh’ hysterics is pathetic. People are letting their reflexes answer for them – pure knee-jerking because some tool they leaned on is getting nerfed and ignoring all the good in this patch to completely fixate on it. If you’re running a longbow and don’t see the possibilities in a 25% harder-hitting #4 then I’m unconvinced you’re all that good at Dragonhunter’ing. While #5 is tricky to use, the thought of every person you’ve ever successfully caged getting hit 33% harder has got to make your eyes twinkle just a little. That delivered alongside a 5 second shorter cooldown. There must be some medi-guards absolutely chortling about the virtue cooldowns. If you ran shouts you read today’s patch notes and asked “really?” but in an entirely different tone of voice because Christmas just came 8 months early.

No one said don’t complain. But a few of us are asking you to think and take in the whole and maybe go actually play it a bit before Two Whole Sentences send you screaming for the hills.

^

I hear you man, but I think the wrong things were buffed. Good #3&4’s will be rewarded better, yes, but shout cd reduction ain’t anything to write home about. What non trap medi guards do you see in the high level scene? None

Folks have every right to be upset. I could barely control myself. Don’t look at just this one patch as the cause of this effect. Its the chronic poor changes to guardian. Its terrible

People ran the same 5 profession in every pro league fight -_-. Why didnt anet nerf the mess out of them

Obtena and Nike you’re both kinda talking out your kitten. Obtena I’ve been over how you don’t seem to get it in an older thread. Guards aren’t in a sweet spot unless you consider stale, slightly mouldy bread sweet. They don’t fit their class role, and they don’t cover anything else worth writing home over.

Nike settle down. Some reactions may be overblown but you aren’t very calm yourself. Reducing the base cooldown of F3 by 15 seconds is like getting 3 points higher than your previous of 30% on a standardized test. 5 aegises on a 75 second cooldown is lame. 5 aegises on a 60 second cooldown is less lame. LB2 WAS the damage of LB. Sprinkling damage on high cooldown CC’s won’t fill the void. The hammer/staff walls do 0 damage on high cooldown. It’s not even rev specifically as a basis for comparison: other classes can now do what we were/are doing but better.

Is it just me or Guard/DH is even more squishy? I’m not able to take down 3 wyverns at flax garden in TD at once now. Before the patch they were smashed easily by me.

Nike.2631:

Quozex.9430:

I feel as a class we’ve just been neglected for the past 3 years.

Eh, its not so much neglect as its the ONLY profession in the game that consistently works right and turns in use/success numbers that hover around the midrange. They nerfed one over-performing skill hard and handed out a huge number of small buffs that make you more involved (more buttons off cooldown more often, more willingness to punch the big buttons early). That’s the profile of a class that’s mostly on track. Beyond that we’re on the exact same page about reviewing our forgotten underperformers.

Mikau.6920:

Guys, GIVE UP. There is no reason to even try any more.

Would you? Would you PLEASE? If you don’t have the wherewithal to operate a Guardian/Dragonhunter under these terms then yes, absolutely: GET OUT. GET OUT NOW. because nothing will do a better job of getting some other profession nerfed than a mass exodus to the flavor of the month ((looking at you, Herald)) and I’m sure all the people over in the class you migrate to will be so happy to have a pack of turn-coats stinking up their boards.

And maybe if a few of our more cheese-reliant brethren for whom having to use the whole tool bar is just too hard step out, then maybe the Dev’s will bump the Guardian up the que to look at our diversity (and the lack there of…) issues because there won’t be this cloud of no-talent trap-monkeys skewing our numbers.

No they won’t. They probably thought these buffs were significant. They don’t know what there doing. I don’t know how long you have been playing this class but I have been for three and a half years. The class is easiest at its lowest point ever effectiveness wise and A-net has shown know willingness to buff non-elite aspect of guardians. This is a time to panic. As for the trap monkey’s they were never that strong to being with. They weren’t meta in pvp in season 1 or season 2. There is zero reason to play a guardian in SPVP. ZERO.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena and Nike you’re both kinda talking out your kitten. Obtena I’ve been over how you don’t seem to get it in an older thread. Guards aren’t in a sweet spot unless you consider stale, slightly mouldy bread sweet. They don’t fit their class role, and they don’t cover anything else worth writing home over.

Nike settle down. Some reactions may be overblown but you aren’t very calm yourself. Reducing the base cooldown of F3 by 15 seconds is like getting 3 points higher than your previous of 30% on a standardized test. 5 aegises on a 75 second cooldown is lame. 5 aegises on a 60 second cooldown is less lame. LB2 WAS the damage of LB. Sprinkling damage on high cooldown CC’s won’t fill the void. The hammer/staff walls do 0 damage on high cooldown. It’s not even rev specifically as a basis for comparison: other classes can now do what we were/are doing but better.

Obtena is a noted contrarian Troll. They would tell you Guardians were fine if A-net gave them one utility and all you could do was autoattack. If our sweet spot is being the worst spvp class in the game , certainly no better then bottom 3 , you can count me out and I have taken the only route which is not to play mine. Did not play one rated match with a Guardian this past pvp season. I have 100% moved on from this class. I don’t know what Nike’s deal probably a bored Troll as well or some kind of White Knight riding to the defense of A-net.

Nike.2631:

Treat is as what it is: The top 1% of PvPers and the 5% that raid DO NOT dictate changes to the game as a whole. Any argument the game is being changed solely on their account is between 99% and 95% wrong.

Please try and grasp that the people making these decisions make them with access to summary metrics from the ENTIRE length and breadth of the game. Some of those decision can be a little weird but they aren’t ignorant.

If you’re a Dragonhunter, leverage the added benefit of more 25% more #4 damage and 33% more final tick damage on #5 along with shorter cooldown. Press your enemies with that instead of revealing yourself to be the one-button wonder all the other professions have been accusing us of being.

If you’re a Guardian, revel in nothing but sweet, creamy BUFF.

…Instead of making whiney one-note threads like this one. Which really ought to be beneath our collective dignity.

You cannot pressure enemies with a 4-second, small radius skill 4, especially on a 16-second cooldown. Also, LB5 is not there for damage, and even then its final tick is simply equal to new LB2 damage. Finally, 40vs45 seconds is not a “shorter” cooldown.

You clearly have no idea how Guardians worked in PvP (they no longer do). Please stop talking.

My main char is a guardian, ocassionaly dragonhunter. I played with it everywhere across Tyria. Almost every time I played in a group in a nearwhipe situation I were the last man standing to res the whole party and save the battle. The guardian is still a very reliable profession. As a veteran “noob” I like it in PvE. I hope to the guardian get other role too. Sooner or later. I would prefer sooner

Newsflash, it literally doesn’t matter what you run in open world, because even if you are doing some truly awful build, someone else will probably carry you. Please don’t use that as a gauge.

Not sure if this should be posted here, but how come more aren’t talking about the improved bunker guard. I played some games last night and it was really strong.

Loboling.5293:

Not sure if this should be posted here, but how come more aren’t talking about the improved bunker guard. I played some games last night and it was really strong.

TBH i was thinking the same thing. Shout bunker guard with staff and soldier runes looks stronger. Is it worth it? Dunno

I both played against it and with a similar build, and I found it really strong. Only thing that may worry it is a condi mes, and in fact when I played I could sustain 3v1 for a bit, but didn’t face off against a condi mes. (although necro is not bad now) When I fought against the build on my thief, I couldn’t down the guard. I ended up having to avoid his point (he was mid in LotF), which eventually led to our loss. Seems to be really powerful.

Edit: I want to mention that thief 1v1 can down ele and ranger eventually, so it was surprising that guard was even more tanky and, even with help I found it hard to land the kill, although not impossible.

Spartacus.3192:

Loboling.5293:

Not sure if this should be posted here, but how come more aren’t talking about the improved bunker guard. I played some games last night and it was really strong.

TBH i was thinking the same thing. Shout bunker guard with staff and soldier runes looks stronger. Is it worth it? Dunno

after the buffs, “bunker” guard is maybe now 30% as effective as an auramancer instead of 25% as effective.

you dish out jack kitten actual meaningful healing to your allies as your only meaningful GM healing trait (AH) is a selfish trait meant to require you to play like a parasite within your allies radius so you can get some healing.

bunker guard has no projectile hate close to what auramancer can bring, it has NOTHING that resembles the peel capability of shocking aura, and can do NOTHING for a teammate that is under 20% HP and in need of immediate healing.

So I was a long time Guardian player before HOT. I pretty much left the game once my beloved profession turned into a panzy ranger wannabe. Anyways, I occasionally peruse the forums and was hoping to see some decent positive changes for us Guardians, but I see things haven’t changed much in the way the devs see the profession. Sadly, I think Nike might be right in that they have a certain vision for Guardians, and unfortunately, that vision isn’t shared by most of the Guardian community (IMO).

I also agree that if you want to let the devs know how you feel, stop playing the profession, or like me, take the extreme step of stop playing the game in its entirety. It’s unacceptable that after all these years the same problems persist (Signets, spirit weapons, consecrations, weapon skills, etc.). I lost hope a year ago, and it’s quite evident there is no hope in the near future for this profession.

Also, I find it kind of funny that I still see the same fanboys supporting ANETs decisions regarding Guardians as when I left….and you know who you are. I said it then, and I say it now, you are supporting mediocrity to your detriment.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Obtena and Nike you’re both kinda talking out your kitten. Obtena I’ve been over how you don’t seem to get it in an older thread. Guards aren’t in a sweet spot unless you consider stale, slightly mouldy bread sweet.

What we have is stagnant AND a sweet spot. That’s a shame because people like playing with new things but in no way is the changes I see here awful, nor are they anything that’s going to drastically change how the profession plays. As normal, people are being sensational to make the changes seem way more extreme and bad than they really are while downplaying the buffs. That’s very typical behaviour for people that don’t get what they want.

It doesn’t fool Anet into reversing their changes, it doesn’t fool me into thinking I’m on some sort of minority, losing side for being outside the mob mentality and it shouldn’t fool any other reasonable player that understands how this whole MMO thing actually works.

brannigan.9831:

Obtena is a noted contrarian Troll. They would tell you Guardians were fine if A-net gave them one utility and all you could do was autoattack. If our sweet spot is being the worst spvp class in the game , certainly no better then bottom 3 , you can count me out and I have taken the only route which is not to play mine. Did not play one rated match with a Guardian this past pvp season. I have 100% moved on from this class. I don’t know what Nike’s deal probably a bored Troll as well or some kind of White Knight riding to the defense of A-net.

I know, but it’s good practice.

Obtena.7952:

What we have is stagnant AND a sweet spot. That’s a shame because people like playing with new things but in no way is the changes I see here awful, nor are they anything that’s going to drastically change how the profession plays. As normal, people are being sensational to make the changes seem way more extreme and bad than they really are while downplaying the buffs. That’s very typical behaviour for people that don’t get what they want.

It doesn’t fool Anet into reversing their changes, it doesn’t fool me into thinking I’m on some sort of minority, losing side for being outside the mob mentality and it shouldn’t fool any other reasonable player that understands how this whole MMO thing actually works.

You’re right, they won’t drastically change how the profession plays. Because the profession doesn’t play: it’s nearly a benchwarmer. Too small to be a linebacker, too fat to be a sprinter. You know what people want? LESS USED options to be buffed to viability. It was claimed that was the goal of last quarter’s patch, but it didn’t happen then and it sure hasn’t happened now. There may be a mob mentality when it comes to unfavorable outcomes, but this isn’kitten This is the logical conclusion of kicking the last leg out from under a one-trick pony. You want to be fair? Go to the druid/tempest forums and talk about how they need heavy nerfs until base guardian can outheal/outsupport them. Come back when they get those nerfs and I’ll take your side. I told you how MMO’s work. You don’t get it, and you aren’t reasonable.

That just a matter of opinion. It’s not really possible to fulfill every player’s desire for their fav class to be top ranked for every game element or their desired skills to get buffs for reasons not aligned to the dev’s grand design. Guardian is no exception. Anyone that thinks otherwise has got to wise up on MMO’s.

no one is saying they want guardian to be OP, hell I just want guardians to be a viable 5th.

asking to NOT be worse than slightly below average is not asking too much

so far that hasn’t remotely been the case in 10 months, and won’t be for another at least 3 months.

That is actually asking too much. Five classes in this game will be below average for any game element of your choice at any given time. That’s a greater than 50% chance that it’s your favourite one.

being 5th/6th out of 9 classes is hardly asking for too much.

hell I’d even settle for 8th if the difference between 8th and 5th is within spitting distance.

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

While this is likely true in many cases you do have to accept the fact when you compare guardian to most other classes the amount of stuff that guardian has (weapon skills, utility skills, traits) that completely suck $%% is much much larger.

On every other class you may have some stuff that you don’t use & won’t consider using for any game mode but it doesn’t comprise 50% or more of your options.

This all equates to the fact that if guardian wants to be useful their choices are quite limited, especially if they want to do anything competitively.
The later could be argued that one shouldn’t even play a guardian if they want to be competitive due to the fact that engineer/rev & ele fill the same rolls better with greater flexibility at the same time.

That in turn compounds the fact that most of the guardians abilities are very predictable & what good ones there are often have glaring down sides either in their style of play (hammer being slow as a snail in glue) or how they interact/dont interact with traits (signets or consecrations not providing sustain but could end up being “needed” for a fight made by Anet to force us to use them)

I agree with that. In fact, I’ve said so myself a number of times. That doesn’t change realities of how this MMO is developed. Does anyone actually think that the behaviour that Anet devs have exhibited from the last 3 years is all the sudden going to change and they will just make amazing spirit weapons out of the blue? Not a chance! So what’s to get upset about? We have a very predictable behaviour here. No one should be surprised for sure and if it bothers people that much, you got options.

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

If it is simply statistics as you suggest, then they pretty much have all the data they need. Just depends on what data to use. PvE doesn’t matter, nor does WvW. That leaves sPvP and that is a bigger issue altogether.

I guess you could take the seasons, look at class/group composition and then win/loss ration before finals, then look at the smaller data of finals to victor. But if this is really their gig then there are bigger issues to work around.

Look – this is no different than the two ton heavy thing called WoW and their long tenure of arena’s. Years and years of class balance issues (looking at you who started it Paladins) with every season ending in set class combos always coming out on top. It was so bad that they removed gladiator titles from 2’s and only accessible to 3 and 5 man teams. Again, balance.

Until they actually spend the money to look at the data nothing will get done. It will just be tossing food on the wall and saying what sticks is fixed…

Another example of why PvP & PvE needs to be split.

Obtena.7952:

I agree with that. In fact, I’ve said so myself a number of times. That doesn’t change realities of how this MMO is developed. Does anyone actually think that the behaviour that Anet devs have exhibited from the last 3 years is all the sudden going to change and they will just make amazing spirit weapons out of the blue? Not a chance! So what’s to get upset about? We have a very predictable behaviour here. No one should be surprised for sure and if it bothers people that much, you got options.

Which is why I encourage everyone to just quit playing guardian.

Everything the class does can be done better by engineer, ele & rev while having more flexibility and options.

Until people quit playing guardian in mass they will never acknowledge they have royally F$%^# up the vast majority of the class.

Crapgame.6519:

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

If it is simply statistics as you suggest, then they pretty much have all the data they need. Just depends on what data to use. PvE doesn’t matter, nor does WvW. That leaves sPvP and that is a bigger issue altogether.

I guess you could take the seasons, look at class/group composition and then win/loss ration before finals, then look at the smaller data of finals to victor. But if this is really their gig then there are bigger issues to work around.

Look – this is no different than the two ton heavy thing called WoW and their long tenure of arena’s. Years and years of class balance issues (looking at you who started it Paladins) with every season ending in set class combos always coming out on top. It was so bad that they removed gladiator titles from 2’s and only accessible to 3 and 5 man teams. Again, balance.

Until they actually spend the money to look at the data nothing will get done. It will just be tossing food on the wall and saying what sticks is fixed…

I don’t see your position here. Yes, they have all the data they need and it only confirms what I’m saying. You can’t balance a class for specific ‘position’ in PVP; doing so would require a crystal ball. People assume the fact there are relative rankings between classes as Anet’s failure to balance PVP. That’s an absolutely ignorant point of view for any MMO where different classes exists.

You get the tools you get based on your class concept. The rank is what falls out and the result is that half are below average. There is no process that could be done in reasonable timeframe to satisfy players that would allow for the precision class balancing that would result in reasonably equivalent performances over all classes. If there was, you would see it WAY more often in MMO’s; it would actually be sold as a game feature it would be such an accomplishment.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Obtena.7952:

I agree with that. In fact, I’ve said so myself a number of times. That doesn’t change realities of how this MMO is developed. Does anyone actually think that the behaviour that Anet devs have exhibited from the last 3 years is all the sudden going to change and they will just make amazing spirit weapons out of the blue? Not a chance! So what’s to get upset about? We have a very predictable behaviour here. No one should be surprised for sure and if it bothers people that much, you got options.

Which is why I encourage everyone to just quit playing guardian.

Everything the class does can be done better by engineer, ele & rev while having more flexibility and options.

Until people quit playing guardian in mass they will never acknowledge they have royally F$%^# up the vast majority of the class.

I also encourage that because the kind of player that only wants to play to win shouldn’t care what class they are playing anyways and this game actually accommodates them with fast (even INSTANT) leveling and easy character swapping.

Obtena.7952:

I also encourage that because the kind of player that only wants to play to win shouldn’t care what class they are playing anyways and this game actually accommodates them with fast (even INSTANT) leveling and easy character swapping.

This is a game. You play to win the game. If I just wanted flavor, I could read a book. Or watch a movie. But I want to win with flavor. And that I can’t (moreso that people better than me can’t) is where the problem lies.

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

Wait, what? Whoever noticed that class “performance” (if this could be assessed using a single metric) had to take on unique values?

Nothing is stopping multiple professions from having the same average performance. You could have 8 classes be “average” and one above/below average, for instance. Again, we are talking about a specific performance metric (kill ratio, win ratio, what have you).

alccode.1297:

Obtena.7952:

Again, it’s simply statistics here so it’s not about ‘asking for it’. Half the classes are going to be below average. You’re just biased towards your more desirable one.

Wait, what? Whoever noticed that class “performance” (if this could be assessed using a single metric) had to take on unique values?

Nothing is stopping multiple professions from having the same average performance. You could have 8 classes be “average” and one above/below average, for instance. Again, we are talking about a specific performance metric (kill ratio, win ratio, what have you).

It would be near impossible for any company to get all 8 professions performing roughly equally.

That being said their are tons upon tons of things like damage/healing numbers, durations of skills & cool downs of skills that they could adjust without even going into a complete rework of 50% of the traits, weapon skills & utility skills that are needed.
That would at least show they want us to think that they care.

The recent adjustments to shouts are such a change, they don’t really solve any issues and its a miniscule first step….. but at least its a step.

So while getting all the classes to be roughly equal is nearly impossible there are tons of little things they could do that would help

Haha so funny guys I am finding warriors with boon duration and slightly tanky and even without healing power their heal per second is stronger than the dmg I deal with longbow guard. Seems like adrenal health can be stacked with longbow on warrior just hitting the ground with f1, so they dont need even to hit ppl with f1 to get the passive regen. Just combining adrenal health with healing signet with rousing resilience, mango pie and shouts heal, with tanky build and almost perma resistance and stability with signet of dolyak and stuff, as dh you cant outheal them. You burst, get them maybe at 50-60% hp and in 3s they are again full hp haha so broken.

Meh our only hope now is that they keep nerfing guardian further and further till it’s so useless that we’ll get an actual proper, useful and cool elite spec in the next expansion instead of this current unbalanceable one trick pony. Anyone thinking they’ll buff anything decent from core guard is just fooling themselves at this point imo.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

It would be near impossible for any company to get all 8 professions performing roughly equally.

Absolutely agreed, I was just responding to the notion that somehow, mathematically, half of the professions must be “below average”, and that half must be “above average”. But nothing of the sort is the case. It is possible for multiple professions to be average or equally capable, though whether that is actually the case is entirely a different matter as you’ve outlined.

cranos.5913:

Meh our only hope now is that they keep nerfing guardian further and further till it’s so useless that we’ll get an actual proper, useful and cool elite spec in the next expansion instead of this current unbalanceable one trick pony. Anyone thinking they’ll buff anything decent from core guard is just fooling themselves at this point imo.

Idk, imo cooldown reducing means they dont care and dont know what to do about the class, changing guardian/DH to mandatory enforce players use with traps.

When the issue is not a problem of CD but the class itself that gets outperformed easilly, and that lost its identity in this game due Anet dont know what to do, all i can say is next spec will be even less logical to play, and more easy to defeat.

Aeolus.3615:

cranos.5913:

Meh our only hope now is that they keep nerfing guardian further and further till it’s so useless that we’ll get an actual proper, useful and cool elite spec in the next expansion instead of this current unbalanceable one trick pony. Anyone thinking they’ll buff anything decent from core guard is just fooling themselves at this point imo.

Idk, imo cooldown reducing means they dont care and dont know what to do about the class, changing guardian/DH to mandatory enforce players use with traps.

When the issue is not a problem of CD but the class itself that gets outperformed easilly, and that lost its identity in this game due Anet dont know what to do, all i can say is next spec will be even less logical to play, and more easy to defeat.

Maybe but as long as it kicks kitten in PvE I’ll be happy honestly.

Tho I rly would like to have the meta back where hammer medi guard was good. I loved that build.