Guild Wars 2

Cheers everyone !

After BWE we had few threads about Dragonhunter overall but let’s make some more so that Karl could see more of your feedback.

We know now that most of things we asked for earlier were already taken under consideration but not yet implemented in the last BWE. I’d like to speak more about our new utilities and what we could do to improve them.

While reading threads and scrapping ideas we all came to conclusions that traps could use these following additions:

1. Traps could be better if invisible to enemies (perhaps after few seconds after dropping them)
2. Traps should have an ability to being set at range (not far, about 600 – 900 yards)
3. Traps should be more synergised with LB traits and skills to make better combos.

Now I hope we could add something more, considering how much more “off-boons” other classes have to their utilities.
Someone in-game mentioned that it would be a good idea to make traps give us regeneration. might and other kind of boons (depending on traps) that would trigger along with the traps.
My personal idea gives something for Purification. When I saw this ability I thought that due to its name we would get some condi cleanse, but naaah. So the thing is to add to our healing trap some condi cleanse perhaps 3 conditions. Also this trap is useless against ranged becuase they won’t trigger it and it’s getting boring how every guard is running around with shelther and just shelter. This trap heals for a very good ammount for such a short cooldown but the trick is that we need to lure our enemies in it which is not a problem while fighting melee. Purification could be remotely popped after 3-4 seconds so that we could get healed either way but then the cooldown would get longer by the same ammount of seconds.
If this idea is not that good then Purification could at least be have an invisible force field that is 2x larger and pulls enemies into it.

Some people said that traps should be symbols, that could be quite fun with symbol trait to make them bigger and heal as well. Standing over all our traps with extra healing would make us very hard to kill if someone decided to roll for healing power, but it doesn’t mean that it should be or ever could be implemented.
How are you guys feeling about traps ? IMO they are not bad in team fights as enemies are not focused on watching their feet that much but in 1v1 or when we are fighting multiple enemies solo then traps are very, very weak due to cast time and them being easy to counter by just dodging (unless those traps were to still get their effect on dodging enemies then it would be amusing).

Traps are already invisible, the enemy just sees the animation the player uses.

As for making them ranged, doubt it will happen because then they would need to do the same with rangers.

Also the reason they don’t synergize with longbow is because they don’t stun or immobilize. (daze won’t help).

Over all unless they add immobilize/stun and some useful secondary effects (like conditions, boons & condi cleanse) to traps it’s doubtful they will see much if any use because shouts, meditations & even consecrations will end up being more useful.

As has been mentioned, traps are invisible. All information regarding traps, plus actual gameplay involving traps reinforces this.

Traps have no need to be ranged. Not DH’s, and not any others. Plus, “not far” is 600-900? That’s 1/2 – 3/4 max range.

Why do traps have to “synergize” with Longbow any more than they do? What other utilities synergize with a specific weapon? Traps feed into the Dragonhunter’s purpose, they don’t need to at optimal performance with Longbow.

Traps have 0 reason to have symbols associated with them. They’re fine how they are, especially in concept. There could be room for a smidgen more polish, but otherwise their basically finished products.

Ghotistyx.6942:

As has been mentioned, tasks are invisible. All information regarding traps, plus actual gameplay involving traps reinforces this.

Traps have no need to be ranged. Not DH’s, and not any others. Plus, “not far” is 600-900? That’s 1/2 – 3/4 max range.

Why do traps have to “synergize” with Longbow any more than they do? What other utilities synergize with a specific weapon? Traps feed into the Dragonhunter’s purpose, they don’t need to at optimal performance with Longbow.

Traps have 0 reason to have symbols associated with them. They’re fine how they are, especially in concept. There could be room for a smidgen more polish, but otherwise their basically finished products.

I agree with most of what you said. Although there is one thing I don’t fully agree with. The Elite Specialization is specifically designed with traps and longbow in mind. They should be seen as two complementary attributes, together with the traits, forming the core of the elite specialization. The traps can’t be used without equipping the Dragonhunter specialization.

With that said, to answer your question “Why do longbow and traps need more synergy?” Well, because these two core elements of the specialization serve different purposes. Longbow is a long range back support weapon while traps are a short range burst skill. Therefore, in a lot of situations they severely lack in synergy. The idea behind it is that enemies you engage will run towards you into the traps. However, I can think of many encounters where this simply won’t happen. For example, this can be said about ranged enemies, group encounters and PvP.

I don’t think making the traps ranged is the solution. Also symbols sound too complicating. But the guardian does need some form of control to get enemies inside their traps without relying on the enemy itself.

I do really think, traps wont get a change to be ranged. This would affect thieves and rangers too and i cant imagine, Anet wants to change these professions only to improve DH.

DHs hunt their enemys with longbow and traps. Both things fit really good to the DH, but traps dont perform very well. Why?

Usually, when u hunt something with a trap, u set the trap at a place away from from and chase it in that direction to make i run into the trap. This wont be the way for DH, because traps wont be ranged.
Alternative, u can set a trap on ur feet and and force the enemy to step in. And thats how dragonhunters should work in my opinion. DHs changed their altruistic virtues in more physical ones. Why not give them more crowd control, so u can use ur traps in a proper way.

1: Spear of justice: Make i work like similar to GS5, so that enemys tethered by the spear can be pulled to u (and in ur trap)
2: Wings of resolve: Immobilization is ok (set the trap afterwards). Maybee increase the range of the leap.
3: Shield of courage: Add a taunt (aoe maybe), so that enemys run towards u (and in ur trap).

U can add these functions in adept, master and grandmaster slots or merge them in one grandmaster slot. Big game hunter and Bulwark would be replaced.

Dont know if that sounds overpowered, but i think, this would be useful and well fitting functions to the DH.

CDs of the virtues can be adjusted too, so u can balance this.

What do u (ladies and gents) think about that idea?

Sorry for my bad English.

Jimmy

You all make a good point about ranged traps, I understand now that traps being used at range is quite unfiting. But DH could really use something more to even force enemies into traps without luring them.
Just like JimmydT said, F1 could also work as binding blade because this is also for what people will mostly use GS to get out enemies into traps but the cooldown even if traited is quite long so one more extra pull could be really helpful, of course if it wasn’t on a huge cooldown as well becuase in the midst of stabilities, blocks and evasions 25-30 sec cooldown pulls are not that frequent.

The only thing that’s invisible here are the players’ feedback.

Our Longbow was designed with kiting in mind. Traps are (obviously) traps, so you use your Longbow to kite people into your traps. That’s the entire idea behind any trap, not just Guild Wars’. You deceive your target to run themselves into traps. Exactly how you do that is really up to you. There’s no point if you just taunt people into popping your traps or some other forced movement.

But let’s dig deeper into the Longbow skills. You set up your traps before hand, whatever you feel they’ll be necessary. At range, you can poke people with True Shot and Symbol of Energy. Either people ignore you and you drop significant damage on them, or they start to chase. Then you start running to where you’ve laid your traps. Deflecting Shot can help keep you clean and act as anti ranged so you aren’t counter kited. When they get to the threshold of your trap, you’ve got Hunters Ward to overlap on your traps while they activate, locking them down while they suffer the effects. Even after that, you’ve got other traps where you can set up a contingency plan using Longbow to entice people to come after you or suffer significant damage.

Fragments of Faith is a very defensive trap that synergizes extremely well with any aegis traits. Test of Faith acts similar to a ring of warding, trading the ward effect for damage. You can place it in strategic places to force a lot of crossing. Lights Judgement reveals and makes vulnerable making places dangerous for team fights and stealth based characters. Procession of Blades creates area denial and can proc VoJ very often (potentially 18 times). Purification could really use some love, but it’s still a blind and a decent heal that you can force a pop on someone chasing you down for the kill.

@Ghotistyx

I get ur point. But first, i want to tell u, thats its not uncommon to “force” someone in a trap. Remember the Ghostbusters! ;-) (Dont cross the streams)

In ur first post, u argue, that traps have not to fit one specific weapon (the longbow). In ur second post, u describe the playstyle u think the traps are made for. This will ONLY work with longbow (perhaps scepter). In my opinion, u contradict yourself in this point.

For all other guardian weapons traps seem to be useless, because most guys want to stay away from u, when u are running after them with a hammer. With more cc via virtues, as i mentioned in my post before, traps could be a nice choice for several weapons.

Second thing is, that kiting is not easy with our DH. Only one leap with F2 at a imo high cooldown (btw with traited immobilize meant to go to the enemy and not away from him), no speed and two rooted attacks on longbow.

You have knockbacks and cripples, what holds the enemy away from u and slows them down, yes. But this makes traps even more useless. U try to kite the enemy in the trap and slow him down on the way? That doesnt make sense for me. In this szenario i would try to kite and use meditiations or shouts for more sustain and mobility.

All the best

Jimmy

Ghotistyx.6942:

Why do traps have to “synergize” with Longbow any more than they do? What other utilities synergize with a specific weapon?

This is why I didn’t contradict myself. I listed how traps currently synergize with the longbow. There isn’t a pressing need for more. Traps will also synergize with other weapon styles, it’s just a matter of making it work. Running with a Hammer, you can combine RoW with PoB, or use ToF to help land burst. FoF can help in team fights with Shattered Aegis and Greatsword. Cripples can keep people inside more of your Smite, or help prevent strafing of your Zealot’s Defense and Orbs of Wrath.

Leaps aren’t necessary to kite with, and not every longbow skill has to directly help you kite. Like I mentioned, get attention with True Shot, plink away with auto attacks while they follow you, and then Hunters Ward them where you want them to stay. You can stand on a vantage point use Hunters Ward and a pre-placed trap on a pvp cap point to turn the fight, either denying a large area, influencing the enemy into your trap, or snaring them inside the trap effect.

Cripple and knockbacks don’t invalidate traps. Controlling where your enemy is allowed to go, or the speed they can travel is a necessary part of kiting. Some kite by staying out of range while others do it by hindering the enemy from approaching. An enemy trying to follow you while crippled us reading more of their time before they eventually fall into your trap. If they don’t follow you, then you can continue to plink away with auto attacks, symbols, wards, and especially True Shot. True Shot does significant damage, so ignoring it is probably not in the enemy’s best interest.