Guild Wars 2

Here is a simple list of the side effects of this change.

1. Made a viable weapon harder, if not impossible to use effectively. Incidentally, this did not even fix the problem ANET was trying to solve in the first place.

2. Flooded the Guardian forum with complaint posts. This not only has damaged the constructive conversation about Guardians, but also created more work for the Mods.

3. Regardless of how you feel about the change it is fair to say it alienated, and kitten off the majority of Guardian players. This change was made with no prior indication. It was dropped on us without a second thought to consequences. It was a poor, knee jerk decision based on speculation and hyperbole.

That being said it could have been addressed in a timely manor by ANET. They would have to be completely out of contact with the community not to recognize the out lash. This would have been less of a problem if ANET would at least make a statement, or address the concern, but they have not bothered to do so. Instead, we are left to fume about it, and move on to other characters and in some cases other games.

This should be a lesson to ANET in how NOT to conduct communication with your community. Come on ANET. It’s time to make this right.

I wouldnt expect a reply from them since looking at the forum a lot of people are upset and me included. I’m learning how to adapt to the change now and trying to make greatsword work for me since I still like the weapon and i used it since level 5 and im willing to put the time into making it good. We all knew once we read those notes that the change wasn’t going to fix the retaliation problem but hey now its live and we need to adapt until something gets done about it, but i agree with you some have moved on to different classes (warrior) and other to different games but the greatsword change isnt the problem that makes people leave its the fear seeing a knee jerk change like this this early in the life of an mmo is fearful for things to come. I dont want this game to end up like GW1 where they changed so much and broke so much to where they made pvp and pve versions of a skill. Thats what ruined it for me I dont want that again I want one version of a skill and one version that works just as effectively in both aspects and more thinking on how to balance things instead of just saying “hey they can keep retaliation up to long lets nerf one thing that wont change it much to fix that.” They need to fix other stuff that messing with the game first anyway before touching classes imo. From things like invulnerable enemies when you are fighting them at random times, to getting stuck in walls, dynamic events buggin out, not being able to examine things, graphical errors from some skills not being shown, to mobs extremely fast respawn the list can go on they need to fix the little things before touching something thats clearly complicated for them.

P.S. Sorry for wall of text everyone just needed to be said

Easy solution is to do what many did and switch to hammer and use Ret to the fullest to demonstrate that what they were doing was not an attempt to fix ret. They wanted to nerf GS and didn’t want to explain why. I went from 20-30% up time on ret with my GS to about 80% up time on ret with my hammer and new build.

The change did affect a lot of builds with high ret upkeep, mostly the ones that were full of strong dps traits already. Builds with a lot of points in Virtues still have 100% upkeep on ret which isnt such a problem because it comes at a high cost.

There already was a reply on the issue which was pretty much get used to it, i dont see why they should reply every single day on the issue when they have done it once already, nothing they can say, short of sorry we will revert it, will make you any happier. The forums are read regularly by all sorts of people within ArenaNet, just because they dont inform us every time they do read it doesnt mean nothing is happening and your thoughts arent being considered.

There’s another topic from someone asking why guardians think they suck when we are 1 of the strongest in pvp and pve. I think a lot of people need to relax and really consider how much of an impact this is really having instead of just huffing and puffing about a very minor nerf.

Sir Digby.8160:

1. Made a viable weapon harder, if not impossible to use effectively. Incidentally, this did not even fix the problem ANET was trying to solve in the first place.

Um, “impossible”? Surely you understand how ridiculous that sounds.

2. Flooded the Guardian forum with complaint posts. This not only has damaged the constructive conversation about Guardians, but also created more work for the Mods.

Perhaps you haven’t read any of the other profession forums, but they’re all “flooded” with complaints. This is the same as pretty much every forum for an MMO. Changes happen and there’s a good chance that someone will complain about them, regardless of how good or bad they are. If you don’t like a change, you should absolutely voice your concern about it, but that involves actually giving feedback instead of simply complaining about the fact that the change was made.

@Mattius.

Erm no it didn’t, it had hardly any effect (if any at all) on the upkeep of ret builds – infact if anything it moved people over to higher upkeep builds (by switching to hammer).

And no, they haven’t actully replied to us with a “get used to it” response, infact they haven’t actully replied to us with any response.
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I see you post that this is “a minor nerf” quite often (now somehow a very minor nerf), yet it’s been shown time and time again that it wasn’t, and it’s been quite clearly explained across a number of threads at how it actully affected a number of builds that didn’t include retaliation.

How taking a heavy symbol build using the GS from 10 seconds every symbol to 20 seconds every symbol is “very minor” just makes no sence at all, it literally DOUBLES the cooldown (that isn’t minor). I’d understand you saying minor if it was from 1 to 2 seconds, but from 10 to 20 seconds – you’ve got to be joking.

Although I’m not going to whine about it, I want to point out that it did indeed cause me to change TO a retaliation build. I know that sounds odd, but I was using a GS Symbol/Cond Dmg build. Since this change kind of messed that build up, I went looking for something better. Hammer/ret build with GS or staff second weap for PvE AND Hammer/ret build with staff or possibly scepter second weapon. Basically, I’m suddenly using a hammer ret build for everything is my point, when I’d never even looked at one before.

So if their goal was to get people to stop using high ret builds, that failed. I DO think it probably caused MORE people to take high ret builds.

Interesting….

Honestly I liked the greatsword, but after switching to hammer it all seems like the greatsword was a toy. Hammers mechanics made me a better tank, better for crowed control, better at taking points and defending them in sPvP. Greatsword was all about DPS but the Guardians mechanics are much more than that.

I even rolled a warrior and tried using the Hammer and quite frankly, compared to Guardians Hammer, it sucks. then swap to mace/focus when I need to go on the defensive and wait weather out any storms of attacks (block, block, block, blind, counter) usually enough time for the healing skill to recharge (traited for signets to recharge faster and i use healing signet) then switch back to some crazy hammer time.

One thing I’ve been meaning to do is try the Hammer/GS combo. Hammer #5 then switch to GS for Whirling Wrath whilst enemy is trapped inside should do some insane damage as they have no where to run and most likely have knocked themselves over trying to run outside the barrier.

Even after the nerf the Guardian class still WTF destroys the other classes.

Most likely they wanted people to try and explore other options. Its not the end of the world.

@KensaiZen, that’s exactly why I’m not whining. For one thing, it’s not going to change, so we’d better get used to it. Are people really going to quit the game for changing one weapon??
Using hammer main and switching to GS for WW + SoW enemies still live is a WAY better game than just using GS alone was. You still get excellent DPS, but much more utility than GS alone. I think this change honestly just put GS on the same level as all the other weapons, instead of making it the “only” DPS choice. I think they wanted to force us into more variety. I mean, 9 out of 10 PvE guardians were running almost pure GS builds for leveling.
GS is till a good weapon, but users will be switching weapons more often, which is a good thing.

@Shaen

It’s only ridiculous if you are one of the people hell bent on trying to make the weapon work better now than other options Guardians still have. The utility of the weapon is lost. Anyone who has spent any time working with the GS since the nerf understands that it is a shadow of it’s former self. Maybe impossible is harsh, but have you tried to use it effectively in PVP since the change? You are asking to get slaughtered.

I myself chose to move on to different weapons. I’m working with a glass cannon Staff build that is good in WvW, and a Mace/Shield Symbol build that works very well in PVE.

As for your other comment:

Early on I did not complain. I gave constructive criticism and kept my comments on the topic of fixing the actual problem. I even gave suggestions on possible fixes to the ret issue. It wasn’t until recently that I realized that those posts were getting ignored. (Just like everyone elses.) Maybe they do read them, but not even giving a simple nod to the players shows poor communication, and a lack of respect to the player base. Karma Crimzin said it best. It’s not about the current nerf. It’s how they addressed it, or in this case didn’t. It makes me wonder how these things will be handled in the future, and admittedly it is worrisome. It really takes a few minutes to make a post saying, we hear you. Even if they are not going to change anything at least we don’t feel like we are talking to a brick wall.

@Mattius

I don’t know where you are coming from, but I don’t base how I play a game off one choice a company makes whether, or not I agree with it. Saying that I won’t be happy until it’s reverted simply is not true for me. I would be content with a simple acknowledgement. Just knowing that they give a “kitten” about their player base would improve things a lot. Don’t misunderstand me. It’s not about the nerf. It’s about the lack of communication on the subject.

The biggest problem is that the hammer is so boring to use. I tried it for about an hour and just gave up because I play games for fun not boredom. Will play other professions or other games until this gets sorted out.

The biggest problem is that the hammer is so boring to use. I tried it for about an hour and just gave up because I play games for fun not boredom. Will play other professions or other games until this gets sorted out.

Be careful when addressing subjectiveness as a problem. Everyone has a different play style and some find the hammer very fun to use.

The biggest problem is that the hammer is so boring to use. I tried it for about an hour and just gave up because I play games for fun not boredom. Will play other professions or other games until this gets sorted out.

Be careful when addressing subjectiveness as a problem. Everyone has a different play style and some find the hammer very fun to use.

you are right, so why have a GS, exactly like an hammer? (or even worse than hammer in terms of speed)
Some guardian player like a slow gameplay, simply defend and let the enemy suicide, i like the active defense, so use a defensive skill when needed, and reply with a fast combo when the enemy have finished its combo.