Guild Wars 2

To the extent that it matters, I have 52 "Tier 1’ wins, was one of Titan Alliance’s WvW commanders and still command T1 today (generally in EB, often running militia around a smallish guild core).

My Guard’s priorities are, in priority order, survival (incl cc breaks), cc and group utility. DPS for the type of commanding I do is not a consideration. I’m the focus of our group’s movement, DPS and cc calls, healing and rebuffing calls, as well as being the focus of most threat group’s DPS and cc. I can’t effectively do any of this if downed/defeated. Unless I’m running untagged with guildies or running a commander bait ruse, then you have to be at point to be effective. On this I fundamentally disagree with Obtena and Death, and am scratching my head to think of a well known T1 commander who is not the focus of an engagement. There’s also in my experience, a survivability benefit to being at the schwerpunkt – due to player reaction lag and game skill lag (not to mention chained veils etc) the most dangerous place to be is behind the commander.

Consequently, I run T, V and HP, Mel and lemongrass, with WxP points supporting the focus. Your build will depend on a host of playstyle factors, but this has, recently, worked against some of the best open field guilds in the game from SoR, JQ and TC, including in protracted engagements of up to 10 minutes.

I think you are misinterpreting what is being said here. I’m not talking about commanding from an Ivory tower half way across the map. I’m talking about putting yourself in a position where you are playing to the priorities you listed. Perhaps the discussion is more academic but putting yourself at risk at the front of your zerk is not the ideal position to be commanding from, regardless of what people’s successful practice is. As you said yourself, the opposing commander is the focus of the engagement. Therefore, placing yourself at the OPTIMAL position to be targeted by your enemy is not a good approach.

TBH, what you are saying is IN agreement with what we have been saying so …?

Cuddlepie.8109:

To the extent that it matters, I have 52 "Tier 1’ wins, was one of Titan Alliance’s WvW commanders and still command T1 today (generally in EB, often running militia around a smallish guild core).

My Guard’s priorities are, in priority order, survival (incl cc breaks), cc and group utility. DPS for the type of commanding I do is not a consideration. I’m the focus of our group’s movement, DPS and cc calls, healing and rebuffing calls, as well as being the focus of most threat group’s DPS and cc. I can’t effectively do any of this if downed/defeated. Unless I’m running untagged with guildies or running a commander bait ruse, then you have to be at point to be effective. On this I fundamentally disagree with Obtena and Death.

I don’t see how you disagree with me on being at point. Since when have I ever even implied that commanders shouldn’t be at point?

You can read my post in this thread earlier about what I define to be leading from the front.

From what I’m seeing everything you’ve stated is pretty much in sync with my outlook with exception of gear choice which is only due to my personal preference. The priorities you listed are things I100% agree with you on.

Fair enough – furious agreement can be a good thing.

An aspect that is important when leading militia is that, regardless of TS, they tend to follow you physically. In a perfect world, a commander physically removed from the centre of the carnage, able to surveil the engagement, would be ideal. But I’ve found that an essential part of WvW commanding is actually leading in line with Nap’s dictum that the moral is to the physical as 3 is to 1.

Wukunlin.8461:

I see energy sigil gets mentioned here and I fully agree on their usefulness. However I have been experimenting with sigil of stamina (refill energy on kill) and seems to have worked okay, anyone else tried this?

i haven’t personally run them, but i know Guard friends who do and speak very highly of them. if you’re more engaged in zerg fights or fighting large numbers, then Stamina can be great since each guy you tagged that dies, you’ll get endurance for that.

whereas, for obvious reasons, if you choose to engage in solo roaming, or focus more on small man vs small man fights, energy would be the better choice.

so i guess, if you can afford two different weapon sets. : ))

akamon.2769:

Wukunlin.8461:

I see energy sigil gets mentioned here and I fully agree on their usefulness. However I have been experimenting with sigil of stamina (refill energy on kill) and seems to have worked okay, anyone else tried this?

i haven’t personally run them, but i know Guard friends who do and speak very highly of them. if you’re more engaged in zerg fights or fighting large numbers, then Stamina can be great since each guy you tagged that dies, you’ll get endurance for that.

whereas, for obvious reasons, if you choose to engage in solo roaming, or focus more on small man vs small man fights, energy would be the better choice.

so i guess, if you can afford two different weapon sets. : ))

This. In Zerg v Zerg I’ll have a staff with a stamina sigil because it’s so good at tagging enemies at range, and another weapon with energy ( probably a hammer for wards and immobilize ).
Omnom compote gives insane healing if the fights are going in your favour – otherwise I’ll probably take endurance regen food as zerg specs tends to have low precision so you won’t get much vigor from Honor 5

Wukunlin.8461:

I see energy sigil gets mentioned here and I fully agree on their usefulness. However I have been experimenting with sigil of stamina (refill energy on kill) and seems to have worked okay, anyone else tried this?

Sigil of stamina is okay provided your team is able to down the enemy. I prefer energy because whether the enemy dies or not, I can have an additional dodge per change of weapon.

I’ve tried it. I love it. Works if your force is the stronger one.

Relentliss.2170:

I know people who reccomend the Sigil of Restoration, heals on kill.

This is good provided your team is able to down and kill the opponent. Else, this shouldn’t really be your concern since as a commander – based on topic – a dodge will heal more than any kills per restoration, and if you’re using AH, you’ll be a healing machine.

There seems to be an off topic issue about commanding in the front or otherwise. Well, it’s pretty much up to you. What matters is through your tactic, you get the win, and doing so consistently.

For the record, guys. DeathPanel wrote this:

First. As a commander you won’t be at front line.

Frontline = melee
Backline = range

So yes, DeathPanel you have done the following:

when have I ever even implied that commanders shouldn’t be at point?

So what is it you’re trying to say again? That you suck too much to go in to the melee? Are you going to argue with people here, myself included who have experience of T1 zerg fights where our commanders are right on point? Are you going to tell me to “learn to play” again? Are you going to continue telling a Fractal 79 runner to learn how to play? Are you going to continue to tell people on this forum crunching numbers that the 30%+ crit damage from valour is a big deal when it’s not and that the loss in survivability is so important? Are you going to keep demonstrating that you’re a poor commander by saying that you’ll just die on point?

Most importantly, are you going to ignore everything I’ve said in this post because you know you’re wrong and have too much pride to suck it up? Or are you going to just blow it off like I’m “embarrassing” myself when the only one who is, is yourself because of your complete lack of understanding of basically anything in this game?

colesy.8490:

For the record, guys. DeathPanel wrote this:

First. As a commander you won’t be at front line.

Nice try taking my quote out of context.

I also defined exactly what I meant which is you lead and attack with the zerg but don’t be the very first person up front due to danger of being focused.

Of course being totally devoid of honesty you wouldn’t include that part of the quote.

And it’s somewhat interesting that you would come here pretending to know about commandering when you don’t even command and it’s doubtful you even play a guard at all since your posting is mostly in the Mesmer forums and mostly flamebaits.

I recommend people look at colesy’s post history and see him for what he really is.

Yup, ignored everything I wrote in my post.

There was nobody on this entire forum I could say honestly annoyed me until you came along and posted so many wrong things and then acted arrogant about it. I don’t mind arrogance, just be right. And people showing you that you’re wrong through anecdotal experience in this thread, and in the other thread on the forum where you’re trying to claim 30 in valour is a big deal (omg 300+ toughness, 30%+ crit damage) and people are giving you numbers showing you that it isn’t and yet you keep on “arguing” …

Just…

Sigh.

Just… be right about something. Be right about anything. Don’t tell haviz to learn to play. Don’t dismiss other forum members’ calculations on DPS. Don’t tell me that I’m wrong in saying a commander should lead from the front when basically anybody in Tier 1 can confirm that it works and it’s the best place to be. Replying to you feels like I’m pulling my own teeth out.

Helios.3598:

I’m going to try my hand at commanding on occasion when my guild needs it. I’m not new to WvW, but am new to commanding. If anyone has a good guardian commander build to share I’d appreciate it. I’m also looking for any general advice from seasoned guardian commanders.

If your on during NA PST, come do a ride along in the TS with KnT and we’ll help you get your commander toon setup.

colesy.8490:

Yup, ignored everything I wrote in my post.

There was nobody on this entire forum I could say honestly annoyed me until you came along and posted so many wrong things and then acted arrogant about it. I don’t mind arrogance, just be right. And people showing you that you’re wrong through anecdotal experience in this thread, and in the other thread on the forum where you’re trying to claim 30 in valour is a big deal (omg 300+ toughness, 30%+ crit damage) and people are giving you numbers showing you that it isn’t and yet you keep on “arguing” …

Just…

Sigh.

Just… be right about something. Be right about anything. Don’t tell haviz to learn to play. Don’t dismiss other forum members’ calculations on DPS. Don’t tell me that I’m wrong in saying a commander should lead from the front when basically anybody in Tier 1 can confirm that it works and it’s the best place to be. Replying to you feels like I’m pulling my own teeth out.

I may not like you that much, but I like what you said.
I like arguments full of info, not hollow words that give me nothing to keep in mind.
No offense, Death, but I think we should try to all start going back on topic.

I do think the edge (as in really in the front) of the frontlines shouldn’t always be the only place for a commander but yeah. It’s one of the best places to be.

As a Guardian commander, you’re using your tag to guide MELEE around. The backliners’ job is essentially to maintain pressure on the enemy, stomp enemy backliners, apply long-range support, and survive. No where in that does it say that they should be on the commander’s tag pushing into the enemy’s lines. That’s bad practise and will get them killed. So, yes, you’ll be at the front of pushes the vast majority of the time.

As for build, I would go with a 0/5/30/30/5 AH-based build with GS/Staff. Typically, you would want to run the healing book, but, since you’re the commander, Renewed Focus may be the better option. It depends heavily on who you’re fighting. I’d also look into Celestial trinkets. I hit 3.1k Armor, 3k attack (~1.8-1.9k power), 25% crit chance, 65% crit damage, 880 Healing Power (with staff; 600 someodd with GS), and 20k Health with my 0/5/30/30/5 build. Runes of the Soldier, Sigils of Energy. Shelter, SYG, Hold The Line, and misc (I use SY, you might want Sig of Judgment) are your skills. Hold the Line is great for both easy Protection application for damage reduction on pushes and as a cleanse.

One of the biggest mistakes I see in Guardian WvW builds is ignoring Healing Power. Healing Power causes your dodge roll heals to tick for 800-1k HP, AH to give you around 60% of your health bar with a single Empower channel, Shelter to heal for over 5k, Regen to tick even harder, etc… Why you would ignore all this potential is beyond me. Another mistake I see is over-investing into Precision. In a zerg setting, you should have 100% uptime on Fury. If not, your Warriors and Elementalists need to step up their game big time. So, in a more defensive build, and even in most offensive builds, you really only need to hit 25-35% crit chance to really be effective. This is also why I think more than a couple pieces of Knight’s gear is an absolute waste. When I make a build for WvW, I always try and hit around the same ballpark for stats. 3k armor is a must, as is at least 18k-19k HP, 3k attack w/ GS and buffs, 25% crit chance, 800-900 Healing Power with Staff, and then I dump the rest into maximizing my crit damage. Since an AH build is 30 into Valor, you’re getting a free 30% crit damage from the build alone, so there’s a lot of room to min/max. Lastly, don’t forget about group-buff traits. Assume that Strength in Numbers at the least, and hopefully Empower Allies, too, will have 100% uptime on you. That’s another free 150 stat points that you can invest elsewhere.

Just as a bit of validation about my experience; I’m one of the core Guardians in a guild called Ark on Maguuma. We are currently the only guild in NA to take any meaningful number of matches off of GF in a GvG (the site has 2 wins for us officially registered, but we actually took a full 4 off; two were nulled because both sides had DCs, even though the same number of DCs happened for each side), and GF is most likely the second best guild in NA at the moment in the GvG scene. Possibly the best if they ever had a chance to fight against EP before the introduction of Bloodlust and EP’s xfer to T1. I also can count the number of times I die each week whilst raiding on a single hand, and Ark raids nightly. Anyways, I’m not trying to sound arrogant, I just want to say that I have a LOT of experience as a Guardian in an organized WvW setting, so I know what I’m talking about.

colesy.8490:

Yup, ignored everything I wrote in my post.

The main problem here is you take my quotes out of context and dishonestly twist my words. If I actually ignored what you wrote I wouldn’t have pointed it out.

Full Clerics + max Boon Duration.
0 0 10 30 30
Staff, Mace/Shield (occasionally swapped out for hammer)
Shouts + Renewed Focus.

Enjoy.

Hi OP

I run WvW as a commander and have been since game launched. I have tried many different builds, healway, clerics, etc. also I run with another guardian as a commander as well we do great. We both use same st ups as follows:

Traits: 0 0 30 20 20,
Valor – Altruistic healing, rest flexible
Honor – Superior Aria, Writ of the Merciful
Virtues – Master of Consecrations (makes WoR spammable) Indomitable Courage <<<<< extremely important, coupled with Renewed Focus thats 2x extra group stability, aegis, prot, regen you get per fight, on half the CD of runnign a tome.

Utilities: heal signet (as commander you have to stay up 1st, worry bout others 2nd, heal signet most effective), signet of judgement for passive, Stand your Ground (spammable stun breaker / stability), Wall of Reflection or Hold The Line (I preferr WoR), renewed focus (resets traits, more stability via traits)

Gear:
Armor is 5x PVT with Sentinels chest and 6x melandru, food stacked with lemongrass or saffron bread, as commander you will be stunend , knocked down and CCed A LOT. So saffron bread is actually better against some guilds and comps then lemongrass. If opponents heavy on necros ele, use lemongrass, if opponents haevy on hammer trains, use saffron.

backpiece and amulet are PVT
rings and accessories are clerics

Weapons: ascended PVT staff with 2x wvw infusions and sigil of generosity
Hammer with wvw infusions and sigil of force
Mace wvw infusion and sigil of life,
Focus PVT with superior sigil of energy (dont have ascended yet, work in progress)

With this gear set-up, 5 stacks of guard defense + some bloodlust I hover around 23k health and 3300-3400 armor pending what pieces i equip. without the buffs i am around 19-20k health range. add to that signet of judgement passive and you get the idea.

Build works as follows:

You are obviously front runner, pop veil manuver, simoultanously pop virtue of courage, cut in half, place WOR to isolate the backline, if more guards present, anotehr WoR from different direction, simoultaneously CC + bomb on you, while on the WoR from any of your crew gives aoe clensing. On the move outta aoe, pop renewed focus if needed pop virtue of courage 2nd time for you and your team, at this point you have your stunbreaker spammable stability back if it was used, proceed rinse repeat.

Pros: mad stability + aegis + prot + regen + condi removal, good CC, flexible enough to get good healing with maxxed stacks of off mace when needed, I switch hammer / mace as needed. good stun breaking and some invuln, enough to run through sup AC field or up a ramp full of AEO etc. Surprisingly, you own hammer warriors while running saffron even in 2 v 1 though they are really long fights.

Cons: obviously low dmg output, but, for your position it isnt what you need anyways.

Hope this helps you a bit.

I’m new to guardian but not new to commanding and I came up with this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeWlYgiC3FyKEf4ES2jVCBXQsCV01DHSiYIA-j0wAZvioxWGLiGr6lIqGA-w

Any suggestions?

Radian, this is a fairly popular build, it works well. Group stun breakers and group stability is always good when commanding. I would change the “Retreat” utility for Signet of judgement for its passive. Its active is not too shabby either because of the ultra low CD and usefullness when jumped by thieves.

You dont need retreat as commander due to the amounts of group swiftness, also, if you have non-stop swiftness you will always have a HUGE and I do mean HUGE tail. This is a major drawback and while mobility is a big + a huge tail is a much bigger -, you open yourselves to being cut in half and wiped out at any given time. Keep in mind you have group mates that cant generate swiftness in some builds and have serious trouble keeping up in a team oriented set-up. FYI, warhorn warriors give best swiftness in the game hands down. The tighter the group the better.

Armor wise, I suggest a PTV set with melandru, do not count on dodge healing as jumping straight into zerks 1st in you will often not be able to dodge. leave the dodge healing to the guards behind you. Focus on not taking damage in the 1st place rather then healing it.

Also, make sure you carry (or your team carries) Lemongrass poultry soup and Saffron Bread. Start off using regular foods, then if your opponents tend to be condition heavy switch to lemongrass, or if they tend to run hammer trains switch to saffron. Both lemongrass and saffron stack with melandru and do great against those particular comps.