Guild Wars 2

Seriously now, in what world does a thief have more daze than a heavy armor mace wielding, almost non existent soft CC? Guardian.

I mean, i’m just curious how can a thief can steal a 4s daze from a Guardian, not even counting thief’s own dazes, when Guardian doesn’t even have daze on any weapon set, apart from Pacifism which is on 20s CD in a 180s CD elite that lasts 30s, when traited, and soon to be removed. I think this is both funny and insulting.

I understand balance but this is not even at a common sense level. I know guardian has an edge to most certain thieves specs, but please this is laughable.

Either change what thief steals from guardian, like aegis or whatever make the thieves choose, or give Guardians a 1s Daze on Protectors Strike. Which would be imo the best choice.

Guardian’s Mace it’s a slow hitting weapon, not only that, our block (Protector’s Strike) also get’s triggered by range attacks. Basically it’s another aegis. At least give us the god kitten daze on it. Would also help out bunker builds get the well deserved soft CC.

Now a question to people that main thief. Do you find this fair? Does this even make sense to you? Couse sure it doesn’t make to me. This has been bugging me for a long while, please Karl help me out on this.

Edit
NOTE: THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT NERFING THIEF OR ME HAVING DIFFICULTIES WITH THIEVES IN PVP. IT’S ABOUT THIEVES STEALING SOMETHING THAT OUR CLASS DOESN’T HAVE. FOR ALL I CARE IT COULD BE THE BANE SIGNET ACTIVE EFFECT (3s KNOCKDOWN) OR SHIELD OF WRATH.

So let me get things straight….You are complaining that one of the more viable PvP classes for a tanklike role (guardian), should be even more viable by giving it more and better CC??

Every class has a strong balance that it has strong points and counters to those strong points. This thiefs strongpoint is a counter to the guardian. All is very balanced. Don’t expect wins to be slapped into your face.

That’s the problem, Bunker guard was made obsolete for a long time now, since the 3 Celestial dominant professions, which besides CC they also have sustain, mobility and damage, Bunker guard was only an annoyance and an easy pray without people around him “to support” lol the jukes.

I don’t mind thief stealing daze from guard, but at least we should have it in the first place for thief to steal it lol. Our only daze lasts 3s and it’s on 180s CD. And even this will go away.

It’s not so much the length as its nearly impossible to avoid due to it being instant. If there were a cast-time(like what anet did with Skull Crack on Warrior) then it would be fine.

All Thief stolen skills are being rebalanced with the specialization changes, so just hold out for those before passing judgment.

If now its hard with the thief 4 seconds daze how the hell will the DH deal with the double steal from the thief traits in the expansion, a near 10sec daze and that only on the DH

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

Making mace 3 a daze would also ruin it for pve.

Drennon.7190:

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

very funny (applause) but it’s real and will get serious (worst) Get ready for 10s daze
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/F2-button-for-Stolen-Item-skill-usage/first#post5120234

It seems some people think I have a problems with thieves. I like thief. And if I ever lose to one I applaud and I accept that I’ve been outplayed. And no, it doesn’t mean that guardian automatically counters all thief specs. That’s a stretch. But w/e.

Yeah true Prot. Strike once triggered it’s instant, PBAoE dmg also. Adding daze would make it a little bit stronger in a DPS setup (but only in melee). It still gets triggered at range by the first attack. And it balances out on bunker guards. That thing hit’s with negative DPS. And if people know the guard is bunker they don’t even care the blue shield is up so it would make people be more careful imo.

@Oxtred
Why? because of Defiance? I don’t think that people that go for speed clear records don’t have that covered on Voice COM’s.

Protectors strike is actually not instant when procced. There’s a small animation(delay) before the damage goes off.

Edit: Still sticking by my guns when it comes to any form of instant-cc. Cast-times are needed or there’s no real counterplay to it. This game is all about reading your opponent(animations) and reacting accordingly. You can’t do that with instant skills(unless you get a lucky dodge, block whatever).

Agree. It wouldn’t be fun to go against if it were on Prot. Strike. Symbol of Faith would be a good contender for the cast time for ex on the first initial strike, 0,5s daze. But the CD again is too low i guess. And i bet Oxtred would disagree again for Pve, and i agree too.

I only hope for shield then, if it’s ever going to be able to block. To have an extra trait, similar to Missile Deflection but instead “foes get dazed when you block their attacks with your shield”.

Drennon.7190:

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

You’re missing the point. A thief should not be able to steal an ability that we don’t even have.

Black Box.9312:

Drennon.7190:

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

You’re missing the point. A thief should not be able to steal an ability that we don’t even have.

Think it’s plausible, in fact necessary, otherwise Theives could be stealing a whole bunch of stuff they couldn’t use effectively and that would be completely stupid. I don’t actually think if they steal something the base profession doesn’t have matters anyways; it’s an academic argument. Thieves steal random stuff from mobs all the time. No reason it can’t work that way on non-NPCs.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Drennon.7190:

Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"

You’re missing the point. A thief should not be able to steal an ability that we don’t even have.

Think it’s plausible, in fact necessary, otherwise Theives could be stealing a whole bunch of stuff they couldn’t use effectively and that would be completely stupid. I don’t actually think if they steal something the base profession doesn’t have matters anyways; it’s an academic argument. Thieves steal random stuff from mobs all the time. No reason it can’t work that way on non-NPCs.

So let them steal random from guardians…lets say protection 4 sec or regen 4 sec or even an aegis. Daze is just no-no.

It’s not the random steal that’s an issue. It’s the idea that thieves can’t steal a skill Guardians don’t possess. I actually believe that what makes the most sense is for thieves to steal skills (random or not) that will give them maximum effectiveness against the profs they steal from, even if those professions don’t have those skills.

Daze doesn’t relate to anything that the Guardian is. The item Mace Cracked Head could have easily been a knockdown effect. They could have even turned it into an immobilize skill and changed the picture into a broken scepter’s shaft or something.

I agree with OP.

Rising Dusk.2408:

All Thief stolen skills are being rebalanced with the specialization changes, so just hold out for those before passing judgment.

inb4 steal skill that makes their attacks unblockable :DD

It does correlate to guardian. You see if a theif steals ANY of our defensive abilities, the steal would be pretty useless. We’d still outlast him/her. Now if a theif steals something that actualy hinders the class they are stealing it from, like dazing us guardians because we can pretty much brush off everything else. Yeah that sounds about right. It would probably be a stun but we have crap mobility anyways and we still need to be able to turn so you cant back stab us

So… Should the thief steal actual abilities from all the professions? If a thief would steal Steal from another thief… Dual Steal anyone? Jokes aside, I would have nothing against this as long as the stolen skills were not say Lich form (as an extreme example) or something useless.

But the reasoning behind the thief stealing abilities that the professions don’t have is that they improvise. I stole a mace from you, now I’ll smack you over the head with it because I don’t have your guardian training.

PS: I rarely even manage to land that mace crack on a guardian.

So, they should steal things like endure pain and spectral walk? I’m down

did u OP had by any chance the Tome of Courage equiped?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pacifism

Wonder if the thief took the condi from the tome.

Aeolus.3615:

did u OP had by any chance the Tome of Courage equiped?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pacifism

Wonder if the thief took the condi from the tome.

I know, that’s why I specified it in the 2nd paragraph in the OP.

Daze:
- Guardian (currently) – 3s, AoE @1200 range /180s CD (elite)
- Thief – 4s single target /35s CD (with 0 points in Trickery) – only by stealing from guard

Yamsandjams.3267:

So, they should steal things like endure pain and spectral walk? I’m down

Ok, now let’s be reasonable, base line Steal is 35s with no points invested in Trickery. Of course you won’t give thief abilities that are on higher CD than Steal itself.

Point i’m I’m trying to make is there’s now way the devs can’t squeeze in at least a 1s daze in one of guards weapons/traits. If Thief can adapt the mace and use it to “smack”, it’s just funny that guard can’t.

God knows how many threads has been made to ask for some Soft CC. (pls don’t mention DH, i’m talking about the core specc)

Jokes aside, all I want is a 1s daze on Mace somehow, even if traited. Or on shield.