Guild Wars 2

Am I crazy and not remembering it right, or didn’t Protector’s Strike and the last hit of mace auto chain (Faithful Strike) used to have the same exact damage?

Was just looking at it now, and Protector’s Strike is a few 100 more damage now, makes for some interesting burst hits with crit/crit damage.

It is very possible I have old man memory though and they have always been different

Went back through my notes, I had 470 as base damage in mists for both attacks. Protector’s Strike base damage is now 672 with base damage/stats. I could have written it down wrong originally though.

It got a tool tip fixed, apparently it always did that damage its just the tooltip displayed the wrong amount. I noticed this too, but thought I was crazy when I would see the big numbers.

Protector’s Strike: Updated the damage skill fact to more accurately display the correct amount.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-October-15-2013/first#post3079024

Yeah, it’s always been like that. That’s why Mace is really strong on spike/symbol DPS builds.

This is not a stealth buff nor a buff, period. Protector’s strike has always been that potent.

I’m kind of surprised people are still responding after a clear and definitive answer, including a information source link was provided by Aza (thanks Aza!)….. /boggled by others still posting opinions instead of reading what was already said.

Kind of on topic but turning it around:

So after noticing that, I was going through trying to find a way to utilize the burst potential.

Sequencing mace 3 → Torch 4(secondary) → Swap to Hammer → Hammer 2 = 15-17k crits total

Or can combo mace auto attack flowing into mace 3 then hammer/hammer 2 if you don’t want to use torch.

Repeatable combo every 15 secocnds, and while you wait for weapon swap you can queue it up to combo that backwards with

hammer 2 → mace swap → mace 3 → torch 4(secondary) or mace auto attack.

Now is it sustainable? Best option is probably meditations build for the crit/crit damage/medi heals.

CMF.5461:

I’m kind of surprised people are still responding after a clear and definitive answer, including a information source link was provided by Aza (thanks Aza!)….. /boggled by others still posting opinions instead of reading what was already said.

Seriously? There’s no need to feel so embarrassed that you end up coming off like this ^. Anyway mace has already been recognised and utilised for a while now. For instance take a look at some of Silven’s burst builds from like more than 6 months ago…

CMF.5461:

I’m kind of surprised people are still responding after a clear and definitive answer, including a information source link was provided by Aza (thanks Aza!)….. /boggled by others still posting opinions instead of reading what was already said.

Kind of on topic but turning it around:

So after noticing that, I was going through trying to find a way to utilize the burst potential.

Sequencing mace 3 -> Torch 4(secondary) -> Swap to Hammer -> Hammer 2 = 15-17k crits total

Or can combo mace auto attack flowing into mace 3 then hammer/hammer 2 if you don’t want to use torch.

Repeatable combo every 15 secocnds, and while you wait for weapon swap you can queue it up to combo that backwards with

hammer 2 -> mace swap -> mace 3 -> torch 4(secondary) or mace auto attack.

Now is it sustainable? Best option is probably meditations build for the crit/crit damage/medi heals.

Yea don’t worry about it. I’m not sure if there are a lot of people who know. Mace isn’t very popular so its really no surprise. I found out by accident when I was playing around with different builds. I noticed when I was fully buffed that protectors strike hit for the same damage as mighty blow. But when I looked at the tooltip, the damage didn’t add up.

I figured it was: The tooltip was wrong, Protector’s strike was bugged and doing too much damage or Protector’s strike had its own unique damage modifier that was undocumented.

Not embarrassed, just felt it was superfluous and “ain’t nobody got time for that”.

It’s like watching a show on tv, learning something, then your buddy right next to you that watched the same exact thing turns to you and tells you exactly what you both just heard……

Mace is still my least favorite weapon in a pvp environment. I don’t even know why I crafted Moot sometimes.

Any range can easily kite it, and even in melee it’s not good. Attacks are slow and obvious. Protector’s Strike either you just don’t hit them, or you hit them and dodge right after.

Yeah it rips bad players apart, but against anyone that is competent it’s garbage.

/my little rant

I really feel that mace could be our version of the defensive but heavy hitting weapon like the warrior hammer.

The potential burst of Protector’s and Faithful Strike back to back are easily 2 4k crits back to back, couple that with a smart weapon swap or a useful off hand (torch has good 1 hit burst, or even focus, but thats a long cooldown).

Greatsword is nice because multiple hits add up to big damage, but the chances of landing every one of those hits and having them all crit appropriately diminish the effectiveness. Same goes with scepter smite.

Single hit large damaging abilities are great and amazing burst, but as you mentioned harbinger, it is difficult to use and easily kited. Mace also relies on someone hitting you while channeling protector’s strike. I think it could use some tweeks but overall it has great potential.

I keep trying to juggle moderate healing power with good crit/crit damage with mace to make it a defensive but damaging weapon, but healing power/precision/power or healing power/precision/crit damage does not exists :p

CMF.5461:

I really feel that mace could be our version of the defensive but heavy hitting weapon like the warrior hammer.

The potential burst of Protector’s and Faithful Strike back to back are easily 2 4k crits back to back, couple that with a smart weapon swap or a useful off hand (torch has good 1 hit burst, or even focus, but thats a long cooldown).

Greatsword is nice because multiple hits add up to big damage, but the chances of landing every one of those hits and having them all crit appropriately diminish the effectiveness. Same goes with scepter smite.

Single hit large damaging abilities are great and amazing burst, but as you mentioned harbinger, it is difficult to use and easily kited. Mace also relies on someone hitting you while channeling protector’s strike. I think it could use some tweeks but overall it has great potential.

I keep trying to juggle moderate healing power with good crit/crit damage with mace to make it a defensive but damaging weapon, but healing power/precision/power or healing power/precision/crit damage does not exists :p

Its too slow and sluggish to do anything. That is its primary problem and for what protectors strike does, it should do at least 2x the damage it does. Enemies should be punished when you land a counter attack, as it is now its the same as mighty blow but with a 4x cooldown.

The first two mace attacks are extremely slow. Symbol of Faith….why does it have a 1 second casting time? Even when symbol of wrath was our #2 skill for great sword, the cast time still was 1/4. Faithful strike’s wind up time is too slow, making it extremely hard to land the attack in pvp.

So here is what happens. You end up spamming auto attack and only landing the first two hits and using protectors strike. If you use symbol of faith you will lose out on damage and once its placed on the ground, enemies will just leave the circle.

Mace is in serious need of a revamp.

1. Symbol of Faith change the CD from 1sec —-—> 1/4 sec.
2. Faithful strike changed CD to 1/4 sec.
3. Protectors Strike double the base damage.

In the context of SPvP and area denial, much of the traits the weapon has make it more interesting that it initially appears on paper.

Same reasons hammer is generally a better weapon than GS while looking a lot worse on paper. It’s has much better area/point denial. Let’s ignore the really inconsiderate launch/break stun change for a second, which basically destroyed Guardian hammer. Even though in the same patch they supposedly ‘nerfed’ warrior hammer/mace with a sigil change that barely mattered and ‘buffed’ it to compensate. I’m sure this has nothing to do with some of the Devs playing predominantly warrior (Cough Powerr Cough). Why didn’t the Banish CD get reduced? Why didn’t Ring of Warding get the used while moving change even though Guardian is much slower than warrior? yeah…

Coming back to Mace, finishing people off with it is it’s weakest feature, but then that’s more a problem with DPS Guardians in general. I mean think about the other weapons in this same regard versus good players…

It’s more or less the same deal because a player with an available dodge can negate all of them almost entirely because of the channels and no hard CC outside of root to help them land. It’s why DPS Guards aren’t really that viable in the first place, and why Guards are actually one of the most balanced classes in game. You get nothing for free. Compared to the other DPS/burst available in game, they are pretty terrible…

As has been alluded, Mace is like hammer but better and worse in some ways. While it’s harder to purpose place it’s burst, it comes with much better built in defence/sustain (blocks+healing > Protection considering ridiculous condition damage and other sources of Prot like Courage on spikes) and it’s symbol pressure can be placed where and when you want it, on demand (the location dependant hammer symbol can be more of an annoyance in SPvP tbh).

It has much better symbol trait synergy (Writ of Persistence, and also potentially Writ of Exaltation, are a must to even consider using Mace), and you don’t get the option of a Mace of Justice equivalent with hammer. That 5% damage increase is pretty huge and the 250 healing power is almost ridiculous considering 30 in honour gives you 300 which aids the sustain.
Every class has much better sustain these days so you need as much as you can get even on damage builds now. Buffs to sustain for other classes haven’t really considered guardians imposed weaknesses as an excuse for it’s built in sustain (Cough Warrior Cough).

Also Block > Blind for 101 reasons (Cough Zerker Stance Cough). Especially when you have a perma’ source on AoE blind with VoJ.

Essentially Mace isn’t the best damage weapon in the world no. It almost seems counter to it’s seeming purpose and in an environment like WvW it’s pretty terrible compared to sword. However in the context of SPvP where fighting on location and point control is everything, it’s a lot better than it initially appears after some time with it.

Edit: Wow, wall of text…

I’ve been running mace DPS in PvE for some time now. If my testing isn’t terribly inaccurate, Mace has the same if not higher DPS potential then Sword and GSword if Protectors Strike is triggered quickly for damage. A 7K PS strike is not uncommon for me in PvE. Its not the best on moving targets but if the group is stacked it does awesome. It also feels more like a ‘Guardian’ weapon.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

I’ve been running mace DPS in PvE for some time now. If my testing isn’t terribly inaccurate, Mace has the same if not higher DPS potential then Sword and GSword if Protectors Strike is triggered quickly for damage. A 7K PS strike is not uncommon for me in PvE. Its not the best on moving targets but if the group is stacked it does awesome. It also feels more like a ‘Guardian’ weapon.

Blood~

It doesn’t make sense to have higher dps potential than sword/gs, protectors strike is on a 15sec cd. And you have to wait for the enemy to hit you to activate it.

I’m not convinced it does ‘more’ DPS than the others but I imagine it’s pretty close. Also in most typical PvE scenarios, mob attacks are easy to quantify, so I imagine planning a Prot Strike is pretty easy.
The fact that it has almost zero channel if done precisely enough means it’s DPS could be pretty high. The DPS of every skill that has channelling time can be deceptive. Warrior 100 Blades is a good example. Sometimes it’s not even worth using a ‘burst’ skill as it can have lower DPS than basic auto attack. Guardian sword auto for example has better DPS than Zealot’s Defence if I recall correctly. Not 100% sure.

No way… The auto has higher damage? Wow I honestly never would’be guessed.

Aza.2105:

Bloodgruve.6038:

I’ve been running mace DPS in PvE for some time now. If my testing isn’t terribly inaccurate, Mace has the same if not higher DPS potential then Sword and GSword if Protectors Strike is triggered quickly for damage. A 7K PS strike is not uncommon for me in PvE. Its not the best on moving targets but if the group is stacked it does awesome. It also feels more like a ‘Guardian’ weapon.

Blood~

It doesn’t make sense to have higher dps potential than sword/gs, protectors strike is on a 15sec cd. And you have to wait for the enemy to hit you to activate it.

If you allow the full cast to go off then its not a DPS increase but if you can watch the target and time it right it most definitely is, but that’s the skill in using it. Not hard to predict hits from bosses in most cases and its almost instant in packs of mobs. I was surprised to see Mace so high but if you don’t believe me feel free to go compare it in the mists. PS wont proc vs the Indestructible Golem but against Chieftain and the other guy it hits for 5k to 5.3k in a 10/30/30/0/0 build. If you can proc a hit quickly every 18 seconds you’ll add ~278 DPS in this scenario. I rarely see it not crit in PvE. I’m happy to PM the test method.

Red.3572:

Guardian sword auto for example has better DPS than Zealot’s Defence if I recall correctly. Not 100% sure.

When I tested ZD it adds a marginal amount of DPS, like 50ish in my test scenario. I use it in a DPS ‘rotation’ simply because its something different the auto>auto>auto>etc..

Overlord.7394:

No way… The auto has higher damage? Wow I honestly never would’be guessed.

Whats the point of this post?

Blood~

Who cares. The forum is for resource and conversation and not everything said really needs a purpose.

Off-topic: I still don’t understand why Faithful Strike doesn’t cleave while Warrior’s cleaves and also applies Weakness. It’s not like FS’s healing is gonna multiply if it cleaves. Seriously. > >