Guild Wars 2

I was trying to think of a scenario where the mace would be the preferred weapon of choice and I couldn’t.

A hammer guard is insanely useful, and even if the hammer didn’t exist the mace would still be horrid.

The attack chain is slow… slower…. (wait for it) slowest…

…and in return you get a minor heal, and a symbol that gives regeneration. Everything in the game gives regeneration, using a light symbol, messing up fire and water combos, just to get one second of regeneration?

….someone does that, they should be kicked, not just from the group, but from the game.

but, but, but you ask “what if the group already has a hammer guardian?” then you should go hammer too. Both of you can skip the trait for longer lasting symbols and pick up empowering might instead, giving your group 10 stacks of might and constant protection, and you can both have the trait for healing symbols making the world a better place.

Mace.. worst weapon ever…

You’re completely missing hte point oif mace, it’s the number 2 skill that makes it as powerful as it is. If I’m not mistaken Mace2→GSrotation will yield the highest burst damage we can put out, that’s far from useless. Add in the bit of healing and mace is actually very nice.

It’s a minor dps loss from sword with a lot of defensive benefits through the heals and the block, I can’t see how you could view it as useless.

It’s nice to use in dungeons in DPS rotations with GS in very short fights where you only need one burst or against bosses that reflect projectiles like the first boss in arah p2.

It’s also useful for the extra block here and there.

I suppose you’re talking about PvE judging from your post so I’m not even gonna bring up bunker guard in PvP.

^by all means, I’ve never seen a bunker guard in pvp that used mace.

I’ve heard people talk about how amazing it is, never seen it. I have tried it a few times, and it’s horrid. The third swing is painfully easy to dodge, as is the symbol. How could it ever be a pvp weapon?

Actually if you overlap symbol from mace and greatsword, it provides some pretty decent damage on a close to overlapping cooldown.

Symbol of Wrath + Symbol of Faith then WW+Symbol of Faith, repeat.

Both ticking for about 1k per tick in zerker and writ of persistence gives 7 ticks total, so you do about 14k damage each overlapping symbol?

In PvE with 25 stacks of might and full zerker that is around 40k damage. (perfect scenario if everything crits) give the target 25 stacks of vulnerability and it changes to 50k damage every 20 seconds (gs symbol cooldown).

Sy of Faith + WW = about 31k with 25 might and 39k with 25 vulnerability every 10 seconds.

Not sure where that falls inline with the gs / sw+focus meta honestly. Sounds great after I crunched the numbers on a build calc, even if they are not practical numbers because it assumes 100% crit rate, but the traits would put you at about 50% crit chance.

70% if you took assassins and all precision food, oil, and infusions. Damage would be lower though cause loss of power.

Ezeriel.9574:

^by all means, I’ve never seen a bunker guard in pvp that used mace.

I’ve heard people talk about how amazing it is, never seen it. I have tried it a few times, and it’s horrid. The third swing is painfully easy to dodge, as is the symbol. How could it ever be a pvp weapon?

It is used in the basic pvp bunker build for like…ever.

Mace+Focus provides on demand blocks to avoid critical points of damage between dodge refreshes. Overlap symbols if you have writ of merciful for some extra healing. Typically about 226 healing per tick, two symbols down that is 452 healing a second, add in regeneration that is another 315 a second, and include virtue of resolve that is another 173.

Puts you at about 940 health a second regenerated.

If Communal Defense didnt have a 20 sec internal cooldown it would synergize well with Mace. I like Maces a lot and always use one but I agree it isnt a weapon to kill with, it is a support weapon.

Tobeyeus.9376:

If Communal Defense didnt have a 20 sec internal cooldown it would synergize well with Mace. I like Maces a lot and always use one but I agree it isnt a weapon to kill with, it is a support weapon.

Like the hammer, the strength of the mace is the near persistent damage via symbol in line with auto attacking, letting you essentially hit twice per your “turn”.

Also, like I tried to highlight with the greatsword/mace scenario, having overlapping symbols can provide some decent sounding damage. Perfect in pve where targets stand still.

Kind of works in pvp with conquest being point defense (people still kite you, been running symbol dps in rated pvp and it does well and can take down groups if they don’t realize to get off the point).

so basically:

1) drop a symbol and switch to GS
2) drop a symbol and spam blocks

The first idea is interesting, the second is barely delaying the inevitable, once your blocks are gone (i’m imagining a ranger using rapid fire) your stuck in mace, and it’s over

Ezeriel.9574:

so basically:

1) drop a symbol and switch to GS
2) drop a symbol and spam blocks

The first idea is interesting, the second is barely delaying the inevitable, once your blocks are gone (i’m imagining a ranger using rapid fire) your stuck in mace, and it’s over

We can be negative all day.

1) GS leap of faith to the ranger
2) let ranger shoot you as he kites away cause you have no gap closer anymore for another 15 seconds.
3) switch to sword and flashing blade, get kited again
4) JI to ranger again and get kited again
5) Profit
.
.
.
6) uninstall game and complain on forums for months to come

Another sign Guard needs some sort of attack speed/access to quickness in the offensive lines.
Mace hit’s pretty hard. I had 3rd attack in the chain hit for 8 – 9k not even playing. And it was in pugs.

Ezeriel.9574:

so basically:

1) drop a symbol and switch to GS
2) drop a symbol and spam blocks

The first idea is interesting, the second is barely delaying the inevitable, once your blocks are gone (i’m imagining a ranger using rapid fire) your stuck in mace, and it’s over

I <3 rangers, me and my wall of reflection that is

CMF.5461:

Ezeriel.9574:

so basically:

1) drop a symbol and switch to GS
2) drop a symbol and spam blocks

The first idea is interesting, the second is barely delaying the inevitable, once your blocks are gone (i’m imagining a ranger using rapid fire) your stuck in mace, and it’s over

We can be negative all day.

1) GS leap of faith to the ranger
2) let ranger shoot you as he kites away cause you have no gap closer anymore for another 15 seconds.
3) switch to sword and flashing blade, get kited again
4) JI to ranger again and get kited again
5) Profit
.
.
.
6) uninstall game and complain on forums for months to come

It’s not being negative it’s being realistic.

If you are using clerics, your health pool is so low that any zerker can burst you down with ease, after your blocks are gone.

If you aren’t using clerics, the healing will be mediocre at best, and after your blocks are gone you’ll still be in trouble.

You add in the fact that a lot of guards have no increase in run speed, and other classes can just walk normally in order to kite you. Giving up any chance to win a fight, just to stay on a point for 5-10 seconds longer is insanity.

So this is not a solo bunker weapon, it’s at best a support weapon.

…and I cannot see a situation when hammer isn’t better support.

It has roots, leaps, barriers, knockback and most importantly protection.

I kinda like the idea of dropping a symbol at the start of a fight, but you can do that with staff, after using empower.

“any zerker can burst you down after your blocks are gone”

Well… that’s kind of the point of running mace… You have one block more. And if you block smth big with it like earthshaker or a thief jumping you with basi venom that’s pretty huge. If you use it to block one arrow of rapid fire that’s bad but that doesn’t mean mace is bad.

Also it’s a one handed weapon so you can use focus with it which gives you a lot more defense and utility (stoming with shield of wrath) so you can’t just say hammer would be better in any situation.

Apart from that you can get 250 healing power from a trait when running mace which isn’t irrelevant when we’re talking about a bunker build with clerics.

Advantage mace has over hammer is:
On demand symbol. Hammer requires you to make contact with the target at least twice before dropping a symbol.

Stop damage via block. Hammer has no block or blind, and it’s damage reduction with protection again needs you to auto attack consistently to gain the boon. Unreliable in pvp.

One handed so you can bring off hand utility such as focus for more blocks. Or shield against range. Or torch for some passive damage. Better off focus normally.

Healing. Hammer has no heals built into it. Mace has heal on auto if you can land 3 hits and provides 100% regeneration boon uptime.

I would love buffs to guardians as I’m one of the first to criticize it. But I am not ignorant to what it can achieve as it is now.

Of course hammer is better than mace. That’s why you can use an offhand with mace.

Mace should be compared against sword, much like greatsword against hammer. Also healing > protection vs condition damage too.

There are also many, many applications where blocks are better against various pve enemies and human ones as well.

I use mace with focus and staff. Altruistic healing is good with mace symbol and another block. With focus you get +3 blocks. Really usefull when running into enemy zergs.

The Mace is pretty solid in PvP, if only by virtue of our other mainhands not being all that good for defensive roles :-)

Auto-attack is mighty slow, but does okay damage and heals.
The Symbol is interesting in that it has a low cooldown and syngergizes well with Altruistic Healing.
The Block is pretty awesome and does great damage.

Ezeriel.9574:

The first idea is interesting, the second is barely delaying the inevitable, once your blocks are gone (i’m imagining a ranger using rapid fire) your stuck in mace, and it’s over

You can’t expect any blocking skill to do something against Rapid Fire. Blocks (or Blinds, for that matter) are not the proper tool for dealing with Rapid Fire.

In PvP, as a supportive weapon, it’s utter garbage. As a bunker weapon, it’s not bad (mainly due to its synergy with AH).

Its more of a pvp weapon. Use sigil of intelligence. Port into people fighting. Pop 3. Bam.

Increasing the speed of the autoattack chain would make it much better.

Beserker rangers are easy as. Defenders Flame. Any blocking abilities you want. Bye bye. Condi and evasion rangers are much tougher.

Yup, it’s a PvP weapon that only fills the niche of a bunker build. Not like this is the only weapon in the game that’s like that (ex: the Mesmer scepter only works for PU PvP builds).

…but it works well for bunker builds.

Anyone who takes a few seconds to skim builds on MetaBattle would know that.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yup, it’s a PvP weapon that only fills the niche of a bunker build. Not like this is the only weapon in the game that’s like that (ex: the Mesmer scepter only works for PU PvP builds).

…but it works well for bunker builds.

Anyone who takes a few seconds to skim builds on MetaBattle would know that.

This though given how bunker guardians are starting to fall out of favor it could use some improvements.

For instance, look at protectors strike.
It’s the only melee block in game that automatically ends when hit with a ranged attack.
If they would change it to continue blocking (like all other melee blocks) until hit with a melee attack then that could help.

Another thing that could be changed is symbol of faith. If they were to cut the duration in half but double the damage & boon applied per pulse then it would be better.

It could also use a slight speed increase on the last auto attack chain.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yup, it’s a PvP weapon that only fills the niche of a bunker build. Not like this is the only weapon in the game that’s like that (ex: the Mesmer scepter only works for PU PvP builds).

…but it works well for bunker builds.

Anyone who takes a few seconds to skim builds on MetaBattle would know that.

A lot of weapons are incredibly niche and some are completely useless. The Mace being a staple of Bunker Builds already makes it more useful than the Scepter, the Shield and the Torch.

Mace/Shield is an excellent choice for a guardian in pvp that can rely on his groupmates.

1) High uptime on protection boon.
2) Protectors strike not only blocks for you, but also for anyone inside the spell-effect ring
3) Never look down on an AoE knockback with group heal and ranged absorb.. Shield 5 is awesome.

Mace autoattack I agree is very hard to use and it’s heal unimpressive for time investment.. But, for the most part a guard has better things to do than spam 1 button anyhow.

any instance where you want to use right and strength but have to deal with reflects or projectile absorption because the 3rd chain with sword is treated as a projectile.

The domes in TA path 2 make sword auto useless, this also hurts WW (GS2) a bit since it has projectiles. you wouldn’t want to use any other one handed weapon against an enemy that reflects projectiles such as mesmers and guardians in wvw or SPVP.

its actually useful against high damage foes like the Archdiviner in FOTM because you have an extra block with mace 3 and the small heal can help out here as well.

in general I prefer the sword but mace is a viable alternative for certain situations if you know where to apply it.

Ezeriel.9574:

^by all means, I’ve never seen a bunker guard in pvp that used mace.

I’ve heard people talk about how amazing it is, never seen it. I have tried it a few times, and it’s horrid. The third swing is painfully easy to dodge, as is the symbol. How could it ever be a pvp weapon?

Up until recently almost all bunker guards used maces as part of their builds. Recently there has been some deviation from this but it is still very common. The most popular Guard builds seemed to consist of M/Sh & Staff.

Of course the Guardian bunker is becoming increasingly obsolete with the OP celementalists and celengineers who seem to be able to hold points pretty darn well

Dante.8456:

Ezeriel.9574:

^by all means, I’ve never seen a bunker guard in pvp that used mace.

I’ve heard people talk about how amazing it is, never seen it. I have tried it a few times, and it’s horrid. The third swing is painfully easy to dodge, as is the symbol. How could it ever be a pvp weapon?

Up until recently almost all bunker guards used maces as part of their builds. Recently there has been some deviation from this but it is still very common. The most popular Guard builds seemed to consist of M/Sh & Staff.

Of course the Guardian bunker is becoming increasingly obsolete with the OP celementalists and celengineers who seem to be able to hold points pretty darn well

Guardian bunker never were that strong people just took some time how to ignore them, Anet helped that by turning other classes stronger and easyer to win.

If all classes only need to bother with atack, defense does not need to be balanced, since balance is on damage, anet just need to rotate the class updates and turn other class more OP, its like the circle of death but with updates, this is the reason guardian has been falling back, defensively and why theres an uprising of meditations guards.

Ever used Knights, Carrion, or any rune with high power but low crit? Strap intelligence on mace/torch and watch the 3x burst damage from shield’s block.
Whirling Wrath + Justice Intervention. Follow up with Mace’s aoe crits.
-Bye mesmer’s clones
-Spirit rangers
-Minion Mancer’s pets.

Ezeriel.9574:

If you are using clerics, your health pool is so low that any zerker can burst you down with ease, after your blocks are gone.

Weird. I have 2 blocks, 1 invulnerability, 2 aegis and 3 blind. This is usually good enough to survive any zerker. Bunker Guardian have its weakness and some attack can interrupt my shelter in the wrong moment, exposing me to a burst. But there is ways to protect myself.

Ezeriel.9574:

You add in the fact that a lot of guards have no increase in run speed, and other classes can just walk normally in order to kite you. Giving up any chance to win a fight, just to stay on a point for 5-10 seconds longer is insanity.

I don’t need no run speed. I’m a bunker. My job is to stay on point whatever what. If I need to die on a point to keep it for a couple more second I will. They can kite however they want, I’ll keep the node. I’m not there to win fight, i’m there to give time to my team.

Ezeriel.9574:

So this is not a solo bunker weapon, it’s at best a support weapon.

…and I cannot see a situation when hammer isn’t better support.

It has roots, leaps, barriers, knockback and most importantly protection..

You can’t compare mace vs hammer. You need to compare Mace/Focus or Mace/Shield vs hammer. I prefer Mace/Focus because you have 2 source or regen that can help you allies, a blind, a block and healing on auto-attack. It’s awesome with the Mace of Justice trait.

Hammer is also really good. But personally, I find it more unreliable against experienced ppl. True the protection from the hammer is better than the healing from the mace. But if both rely much on their third attack for sustain (which is easy to interrupt), mace/x have a couple other stuff in their sleeve keep yourself alive. Which the hammer don’t.

Mace #3 is also easy to avoid, auto atack and roll like a faint atack will make mace #3 miss targets and wont proc Prot boon.
Mace overall is only good when with other mace users nearby, wich is impossible to find.

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t need no run speed. I’m a bunker. My job is to stay on point whatever what. If I need to die on a point to keep it for a couple more second I will. They can kite however they want, I’ll keep the node. I’m not there to win fight, i’m there to give time to my team.

Exactly. A Bunker’s job is not to win. It’s to not lose.

Mace is far from worthless. From a PVE perspective it hits harder than sword and has a superior cleave. It has an on-demand block with a low cooldown, which also does considerable damage when it counter-attacks(~6-7k). Also the heals from mace auto and symbol slowly accumulate to help keep the groups scholars buff up, assuming people are running zerk&scholar runes. The 3rd auto attack when fully buffed can hit for 10k, which is a crazy auto attack! Also the symbol is great damage and applies vuln, which helps make the mace a better dps weapon.

The additional blind is useful for sword but its also a DPS loss when you use it since it barely does any damage. And the 3rd auto attack for sword is a terrible cleave and can be reflected. The blind is good but you should have that covered with f1 and focus 4 and a thief/ele.

This is why mace is superior to sword in PVE, there’s really no reason not to use it. The only time sword has its advantage is for open-world leveling so you can port around a bit and some dungeon encounters where the teleport is also useful.

Mace works pretty well in medizerk builds, surprised no one mentioned it. The burst on protector’s strike does good damage, and the symbol adds some sustain and damage. Certainly helps having traveler runes to land that third strike though, cripple would be nice too. >.>

I have no idea why OP would say that, mace is probably one of the best weapons on guardian. Great utility, everything hits really hard (mace on my build which is not zerker easily crits 4k on aa) the block is very nice and the regen+damage you can get from symbol of faith gives you probably one of the most useful Aoe skills in the game. (especially when traited with writ of the merciful so you get over 500 health per second regen with a very low CD). Combine with focus for one of the best weapon sets available to guardian (imo better than SW/F because of the utility and defense you get on top of the damage which is almost the same on both sets). There ya have it, enjoy the game

You have never seen a bunker guardian using Mace in spvp? That is almost unbelievable ot the point where i have to think you may be trolling. If you are being serious I would have to say you aren’t paying attention or do not spvp. To continue to argue against the weapon especially in pvp is pretty ignorant enough to make me

Get a few guards stacked with mace for frontline and anet will nerf them >:D