Guild Wars 2

I know it’s all theorycrafting, but my thread on what weapon could replace longbow for the next elite still brings up the Guardian scepter’s shortcomings.
 
So- what could make that poor weapon better without being game breaking?
 
Foremost, I think #2 and #3 are fine.  #2 is a multi-hit AOE with short recharge.  Not the best skill in the world, but not the worst either.  Actually works ok with #3 if the immobilize sticks.
 
Scepter 3 is an instant short duration immobilize.  Could stand to last a second or two longer, but no real complaint.
 
No, the biggest issue is Orb of Wrath.  what a stinker!  It is a slow, pitiful attack with no benefits whatsoever.  Foes can simply walk out of its way; unless it’s point blank they don’t even have to waste a dodge.  You can trait to get a few seconds of Might from it, but what good is that if your balls of light keep getting dodged?  I have not played every profession in GW2 but I’m sure this would make the Top Ten of worst skills in the game.
 
It absolutely needs to be improved, but I don’t want such a huge buff that it becomes overpowered, because that will lead to it being nerfed again and useless again.  And honestly, I think it could be made viable with just a little bit of love.  So here goes:
 
Option 1:  The Orb pierces up to 3 foes on its way to the target, doing base damage to each.  If it hits a third foe before reaching the target, it dissipates.  At least this gets rid of the attack being so easily bodyblocked.  You still might not hit your target but at least you’ll have damaged SOMETHING.
 
Option 2:  The Orb detonates on impact (with an enemy or an obstacle), doing base damage to up to 3 foes in a 240 unit radius.  Same attack, same chance to miss everything completely, but with a little AOE to help with risk/reward.
 
Option 3:  The Orb is a homing projectile.  So unless the target blocks or evades the impact, or moves out of range, the projectile will hit.  This can still be bodyblocked of course, but it at least makes the Scepter a more effective single target weapon.  This still isn’t great DPS even if every attack hits, so it might need a secondary effect of some sort.  Perhaps heal or buff allies near the point of impact, assuming that the Guardian is attacking from distance anyway.
 
Are any of these enough to make the wand worth taking?  In my opinion at least, it doesn’t need to be better than the bow, or even as good as the bow.  It just needs to be “good enough” as compared to “useless.”  In many cases I would prefer using 3 core specializations and not take Dragonhunter, but I cringe when the thought of using Scepter comes to mind.

The thing is, we already have a projectile weapon on core guard, it’s called sword. /s

Your option 3 is great! I’d actually like if scepter auto was a channeled beam (similar to mesmer scepter) that gave a nice benefit if channeling completed (regen + might for guardian, or ‘burns off’ 2 boons on the target).

Heh you made me laugh with the sword comment. Sad but true. Fixing sword AA 3 would be so easy. Just make it a melee attack that cripples any burning foes that it hits. Cripslash FTW!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Redesign-proposal-for-Scepter-and-Torch/first#post6191597

This is what I would do to scepter.

The intention was that Orb of Wrath was supposed to be a bullet hell style skill. Whether that’s still the case is unknown, but I’d like to enhance that aspect. It’s a unique aspect of the skill that makes it significantly diffident in design than other projectiles.

One way is to drop projectile speed by 25%, but increase attack speed by 33%. If that’s still not enough projectiles in the air, then we could even consider 2 or 3 projectiles per skill use. All numbers involving the skill would need to be messed with, but the bullet hell, accuracy by shotgun concept is there.

Option 3 would be lovely.

i think a loooong overdue change would be finally making Smite a symbol!

*shrugs

I like the scepter. I like that I can keep 18-22 stacks of might up at all times w/o runes and sigils.

Also, Orb does home slightly. I agree that more would be nice.

But, you’re talking PvP, and I’m PvE, so most of my points are inapplicable to your concerns.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

*shrugs

I like the scepter. I like that I can keep 18-22 stacks of might up at all times w/o runes and sigils.

Also, Orb does home slightly. I agree that more would be nice.

But, you’re talking PvP, and I’m PvE, so most of my points are inapplicable to your concerns.

~EW

So scepter works fine in PVE? That’s good to know, was considering it for a ranged option on my guard.

specter AA needs to burn target, or increased damage.

There are alot of small tunes to guardian that would make it more pleasent to play and less clunkier.

Well I am wvw player in EU and I think I am the only guardian that have never stopped playing the classic build with scepter + focus / gs, even as dragonhunter (at least I have never seen any other dh maining this weapon set in wvw), and, in my opinion, it is better than longbow vs certain builds and worse vs other ones. The only builds scepter is bad against are the tanky ones, because in wvw you can mix tanky foods, durability runes and tanky stats or trait lines for making a super tanky build that only few classes can beat, and dh is not one of them. So, what I mean is longbow works better vs that tanky builds because it has more pressure with autoattacks (you can avoid scepter autos moving fast to the sides, but not longbow ones), and you can keep that dmg on 1200 range, making use of the minor trait that increases the dmg 13% when you are further than 600 range from your enemy, something scepter cant because the autos are only reliable at 600 range or so, and for scepter 2 you need to previously inmobilice your enemy (the only good dmg you can deal being further than 600 range). But vs real tanky builds, longbow wont work the same way scepter doesnt.

I still consider scepter focus being stronger vs some classes like d/p thieves, d/f or s/f eles, squishy revenants and scrappers and warriors too, due to longbow doesnt have defensive skills to deal with high bursts builds with reflects or blinds, at least without a focus on your other weapon set, so, for me, scepter focus gs is better than bow/gs, but bow/ sword shield or focus might be the strongest weapon set, because it got almost everything (I dont like sword tho).

If scepter got buffed somehow would be possibly able to compete with some tanky builds, but then it would be overpowered vs squishy ones, so ppl would cry.

bearshaman.3421:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

*shrugs

I like the scepter. I like that I can keep 18-22 stacks of might up at all times w/o runes and sigils.

Also, Orb does home slightly. I agree that more would be nice.

But, you’re talking PvP, and I’m PvE, so most of my points are inapplicable to your concerns.

~EW

So scepter works fine in PVE? That’s good to know, was considering it for a ranged option on my guard.

Not rly, scepter is only a nicheweapon vs rly big hitboxes (and only singletarget). Not more.

Norjena.5172:

bearshaman.3421:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

*shrugs

I like the scepter. I like that I can keep 18-22 stacks of might up at all times w/o runes and sigils.

Also, Orb does home slightly. I agree that more would be nice.

But, you’re talking PvP, and I’m PvE, so most of my points are inapplicable to your concerns.

~EW

So scepter works fine in PVE? That’s good to know, was considering it for a ranged option on my guard.

Not rly, scepter is only a nicheweapon vs rly big hitboxes (and only singletarget). Not more.

Sorry, you’re wrong. The AA and #3 is good for single target, yeah, but #2 Smite has super-quick cooldown and is great for groups (and also targets w/ large hitboxes, agreed).

I use Scepter/Torch, and Torch is good for both single and groups. You’ll mostly be switching between #2 and #5 no matter what you’re fighting against (single OR groups), utilizing #3 for the vulnerability and sending out #4 only if you’re going single target or staying at a farther range (otherwise keep #4 on).

If you only think scepter is a ‘niche’ weapon, then you haven’t played with it enough. It can be really fun in PvE, especially paired with Torch and Zeal/Virtues for quick might stacking.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Norjena.5172:

bearshaman.3421:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

*shrugs

I like the scepter. I like that I can keep 18-22 stacks of might up at all times w/o runes and sigils.

Also, Orb does home slightly. I agree that more would be nice.

But, you’re talking PvP, and I’m PvE, so most of my points are inapplicable to your concerns.

~EW

So scepter works fine in PVE? That’s good to know, was considering it for a ranged option on my guard.

Not rly, scepter is only a nicheweapon vs rly big hitboxes (and only singletarget). Not more.

Sorry, you’re wrong. The AA and #3 is good for single target, yeah, but #2 Smite has super-quick cooldown and is great for groups (and also targets w/ large hitboxes, agreed).

I use Scepter/Torch, and Torch is good for both single and groups. You’ll mostly be switching between #2 and #5 no matter what you’re fighting against (single OR groups), utilizing #3 for the vulnerability and sending out #4 only if you’re going single target or staying at a farther range (otherwise keep #4 on).

If you only think scepter is a ‘niche’ weapon, then you haven’t played with it enough. It can be really fun in PvE, especially paired with Torch and Zeal/Virtues for quick might stacking.

~EW

Smite is terrible against groups since each of the 16 hits can only hit one target.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Smite is terrible against groups since each of the 16 hits can only hit one target.

While it’s true that each hit doesn’t pierce or explode, that doesn’t mean it’s bad against groups… in fact the more mobs the better. Like so many AoE multi-hit attacks in this game, some of the rapid hits can miss a target depending on where they’re standing in the area… so unless there’s a huge hitbox on a single target not all of the 16 hits will land. But, the more mobs that are standing in the area, means more hits land.

Scepter is a quick-hit weapon for which any build needs to take advantage of it hitting fast instead of hard… hence why I like to pair it with Torch. Rapid-hit main hand and rapid hit off-hand.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Smite is terrible against groups since each of the 16 hits can only hit one target.

While it’s true that each hit doesn’t pierce or explode, that doesn’t mean it’s bad against groups… in fact the more mobs the better. Like so many AoE multi-hit attacks in this game, some of the rapid hits can miss a target depending on where they’re standing in the area… so unless there’s a huge hitbox on a single target not all of the 16 hits will land. But, the more mobs that are standing in the area, means more hits land.

Scepter is a quick-hit weapon for which any build needs to take advantage of it hitting fast instead of hard.

~EW

I really don’t see your point. Literally every other weapon guardian has – even staff – does a better job than scepter at cleaving down groups of enemies.

I have to agree with what others before me said. Scepter is great against not moving single targets with big hitboxes or when you need a ranged weapon in PvE for some reason and that’s about it. In every other situation other weapons are better.

Keksmuffin.1450:

I really don’t see your point.

No worries. We can just agree to disagree.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Literally every other weapon guardian has – even staff – does a better job than scepter at cleaving down groups of enemies.

Lol, and here’s where we disagree again… especially on the staff. Staff is a slow attacking close-range weapon. The AA and Symbol can hit 5 target max. Smite is a ground-target AoE that has NO maximum targets and can be cast twice in the time the staff’s symbol comes off CD and hits much faster than symbol pulses.

Keksmuffin.1450:

I have to agree with what others before me said. Scepter is great against not moving single targets with big hitboxes or when you need a ranged weapon in PvE for some reason and that’s about it. In every other situation other weapons are better.

If you think so, fine. Scepter isn’t like all the other weapons… it plays differently… so if you approach it like all other weapons, of course you’re not going to get the best out of it.

In PvE it’s effective AND fun. I can’t say both things for all the other Guard weapons.

~EW

edit: P.S. I used to think a lot like you and the other posters here… but I decided a long time ago I wanted to find a build and play that made the scepter worthwhile. I wanted to figure out why this seemingly sucky weapon existed. It took a while and a fair amount of theory crafting, but I finally did. I discovered that it wasn’t sucky, it was just different. And, I have a lot of fun with it now.

I personally like scepter myself (longbow outclasses it, but it’s an elite specialisation weapon). I tend to regard it as a ranged weapon with close to melee damage if all the orbs hit. The price is, of course, that the longer the range you’re fighting at, the less likely that any given orb will hit.

It’s probably lost a bit due to power creep from other weapons, though, particularly other single-target ranged weapons (while scepter has multi-target capability, generally you’d want staff if you want to hit multiple targets).

Personally, I like this style: high power traded off by being harder to land hits at long ranges. My preference would be to keep this rather than making it more likely to hit at the (likely) cost of power (which is essentially what #3 would be doing). Options 1 and 2 would both work, along with a possible option 4 of simply scaling up the damage and keeping it as a weapon that is easily dodged at long ranges, but which could create ‘bullet hell’ scenarios and where any hits that are scored pack a punch.