Guild Wars 2

Please?

We can all agree that greatsword is pretty low when it comes to PvP. Some tweaking could make it great again

Maybe making Whirling Wrath instant cast without lowering the user’s movespeed and allowing Symbol of Wrath to be usuable while moving could allow the greatsword to show its face more often now that sword is so dominant

I’d also throw maybe lowering the cast time of binding blades to 1/2s and some damage tweaks but that might be just a little bit too greedy

Again,

please?

PS: I just made a Sunrise and i really really want to use it

What I’ve suggested in the past is that ww slowdown be removed and in turn hb on warrior gs gets ww style slowdown. I don’t see many situations in pvp where I think gee gs would work well here. Also it’s a dps-low utility weapon but has lower dos than hammer for raids.

And yeah landing bb is a crapshoot at best.

GS is somewhat problematic and not a good choice outside of small or 1v1 encounters.

It has utility if you use GS 2 on top of GS 4 for cleansing, but then you have to stand in the symbol for the duration which in turn gets you killed, thus negating that utility entirely.

GS 2 for DPS is no good because on multiple targets you end up taking too much damage from retal to the point where on offensive builds you’ll end up doing more total damage to yourself then actually dishing out.

GS 5 misses to often for a wide plethora of reasons, target moves out of LOS or buggy terrain, evades, dodges, blocks, stab, etc. Its just no longer usable as it was in the past.

Only thing thats left decent on GS is GS 3, but that is not enough to keep it equipped as we have better choices that do much more and no need to waste a weapon slot.

So overall, it needs to be looked at and buffed a bit as it has been significantly indirectly nerfed via HoT powercreep of everything else.

Lower GS2 coolddown and give it projectile reflection frames like Scrapper Hammer and we could be in business.

Gs2 faster while casting and heall per hit. Gs3 evade , 4 cast while moving and gs5 insta

Tongku.5326:

GS is somewhat problematic and not a good choice outside of small or 1v1 encounters.

It has utility if you use GS 2 on top of GS 4 for cleansing, but then you have to stand in the symbol for the duration which in turn gets you killed, thus negating that utility entirely.

GS 2 for DPS is no good because on multiple targets you end up taking too much damage from retal to the point where on offensive builds you’ll end up doing more total damage to yourself then actually dishing out.

GS 5 misses to often for a wide plethora of reasons, target moves out of LOS or buggy terrain, evades, dodges, blocks, stab, etc. Its just no longer usable as it was in the past.

Only thing thats left decent on GS is GS 3, but that is not enough to keep it equipped as we have better choices that do much more and no need to waste a weapon slot.

So overall, it needs to be looked at and buffed a bit as it has been significantly indirectly nerfed via HoT powercreep of everything else.

This exactly. It’s been said before; GS hasn’t kept up with the times very well in terms of pvp. The cooldowns are too large and each of the individual skills aren’t very viable for their intended purposes in comparison to similar weapons on other classes or even similar weaponsets on guardian.

Plenty of great buffs have been suggested that I think would bring the fun back to GS without overtuning it. Following are some of my favorite suggestions I and others have made:

GS 2: remove the movement speed reduction during cast.

GS 4: Change animation and/or let the skill be usable while moving. Also increase the duration of retal given to match that of symbol of swiftness/symbol of energy.

GS 5: Decrease the cast time of the throw, increase the speed of the projectiles and lower the cast time of the pull down to 1/4 s (same as f1).

GS 2 through 5: Reduce cooldowns of these skills to 7, 12, 15 and 25 respectively.

GS is low in pve too. CDs are just too long to be effective at all.

cranos.5913:

GS is low in pve too. CDs are just too long to be effective at all.

Not to mention that the DPS of the auto attack is attrocious.

Azoqu.8917:

cranos.5913:

GS is low in pve too. CDs are just too long to be effective at all.

Not to mention that the DPS of the auto attack is attrocious.

Aye but we have enough AA spam weapons tbh. I’d much rather they reduce CDs so we can do an actual rotation and avoid AAing all day long.

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

GS needs its cooldowns reduced. Its just not competitive enough.

LetoII.3782:

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

They just patched mace even though it’s still useless in every game mode.

Wouldn’t be against a GS damage buff or utility add on, it could be better for sure, also WW finisher only spits out 1-2 bolts in a combo field. The only thing that GS shines better at then Sw/Focus/Shield, is that it has much better AoE burst, and adds another tool to pull people through ToF, but at a hefty cost of defense since you can’t run focus or shield for extra defense.

Gwaihir.1745:

LetoII.3782:

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

They just patched mace even though it’s still useless in every game mode.

It makes for a nice wvw zerg weapon alongside shield for a tanky communal defence/pure of heart aegis spam build.

Funny how everyone wants whatever isn’t the FOTM to chase the meta the fastest. No one wins that race.

Obtena.7952:

Funny how everyone wants whatever isn’t the FOTM to chase the meta the fastest. No one wins that race.

Change is good. Keeps the gameplay more fresh.

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

Funny how everyone wants whatever isn’t the FOTM to chase the meta the fastest. No one wins that race.

Change is good. Keeps the gameplay more fresh.

Nice sentiment, but that’s not a sustainable MMO model for development … unless you don’t like expansions and new content. That argument doesn’t really stand anyways … things are kept fresh when something new takes over meta spot. May I remind you that at some point, GS WAS the weapon to use, at least for PVE. You’re getting the changes you are referring to.

Obtena.7952:

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

Funny how everyone wants whatever isn’t the FOTM to chase the meta the fastest. No one wins that race.

Change is good. Keeps the gameplay more fresh.

Nice sentiment, but that’s not a sustainable MMO model for development … unless you don’t like expansions and new content.

Yet it seems to be what anet does quite a lot. They don’t call it flavour of the month for nothing. Balance changes, things come and go. I don’t see the problem.

EDIT: Since you edited your post… No need to remind me, I know. And I don’t rly mind either way, I’d enjoy being able to use GS again is all. Don’t rly find the negativity appropriate when it’s not even a QQ post. We’re just discussing what we’d enjoy seeing in a potential buff.

Anet never adjusts weapons to make them keep up with the meta spot … they don’t need to; it’s not their goal. How silly it is to think that any one particular weapon needs to continually compete for top slot with continuous focused changes. That just doesn’t happen or make sense when there are multiple weapons available.

I don’t think the OP was intent on just waxing academic on a potential buff like you indicate is happening here.

Obtena.7952:

Anet never adjusts weapons to make them keep up with the meta spot … they don’t need to; it’s not their goal.

And this matters? Regardless metas change, the OP enjoys GS and wants to use it. The rest of us merely chimed in and discussed potential changes.

Believe it or not it’s what happens on gaming forums.

Nothing stops the OP from using the GS … except for his OWN perception of how useful it is and where it sits in the meta. So to answer your question … clearly it matters to him.

Ehh it’s twisting what I said but w/e it’s hardly a fruitful discussion to be had so I’ll drop it.

Obtena.7952:

Anet never adjusts weapons to make them keep up with the meta spot … they don’t need to; it’s not their goal. How silly it is to think that any one particular weapon needs to continually compete for top slot with continuous focused changes. That just doesn’t happen or make sense when there are multiple weapons available.

How silly it is you think there’s only a single top spot. Currently GS is a burst dps weapon, rly just that. It competes with other dps weapons for the same spot and it falls short severely. Buffs could be made, skills could be changed to give it its own niche instead of competing with other weapons. GS and mace are currently the most lacking weapons that could do with a slight rework.

The argument that you can use it regardless falls short when we get into a competitive environment.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think the OP was intent on just waxing academic on a potential buff like you indicate is happening here.

Fair. In any case let’s not derail the discussion further with useless negativity.

Any competitive environment will force someone that wants to compete to choose the gear they are best at using. That’s games, that’s sports, that’s exams in school, whatever. Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight unless your better with a knife than the guy who’s got a gun.

He likes the GS? Fine, he can use it … but don’t complain it’s not as good as other choices when those other choices are also available to him. Anet has made no attempts to provide ‘equal opportunities’ in every game mode for every weapon available. GS used to be good … now it’s something else. GS might be good again in the future. Chasing meta is not a good way for Anet to justify changes to weapons because it’s dynamic. Clearly, they know this. Clearly, not enough players know this.

Frankly, i don’t believe this is derailment. I think it’s healthy to discuss why or why not things get buffs. I certainly don’t believe GS needs anything that the OP mentioned, especially just because he likes the GS. I don’t get what real problems he’s trying to solve with his suggestions. Funny people indicate GS doesn’t keep up with the power creep … then turn around and suggest ways to make it’s power creep to keep up.

Obtena.7952:

Any competitive environment will force someone that wants to compete to choose the gear they are best at using. That’s games, that’s sports, that’s exams in school, whatever. Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight unless your better with a knife than the guy who’s got a gun.

He likes the GS? Fine, he can use it … but don’t complain it’s not as good as other choices when those other choices are also available to him. Anet has made no attempts to provide ‘equal opportunities’ in every game mode for every weapon available. GS used to be good … now it’s something else. GS might be good again in the future. Chasing meta is not a good way for Anet to justify changes to weapons because it’s dynamic. Clearly, they know this. Clearly, not enough players know this.

They made sword, scepter and shield (and indirectly torch) good in the last year while keeping focus, hammer and longbow competitive. Each weaponset brings something useful to the table and has their own niche. Even mace and staff have their albeit smaller niche uses (and tbf could also use some love).

Is there any obvious argument why they shouldn’t continue with their work and add greatsword to this list?

To me the obvious argument is that their intended work isn’t to make every weapon equivalent for every or even one game mode. You think all those weapons bring something to PVP and GS doesn’t? I think that’s disingenuous. If all weapons BUT GS bring something to PVP and GS doesn’t, I think it’s coincidental. Anet buffed the weapons recently because they were deficient from day one with obvious Guardian-flavoured effects, namely symbols, not to make them good for PVP. That’s simply an after effect. The motivation for the improvement was based on the class concept, not the performance in PVP.

Personally, i think you exclude GS from your ‘list’ just to create your point. It happened on Guardian? OK … what about the other 8 classes. I can tell you now, if Anet’s goal is to make every weapon a place in PVP for every class, you wouldn’t know it based on how long it’s taking to happen.

The other obvious argument (that you make for me) is that every Guardian weapon, except one, is good in the PVP environment because it serves a purpose. Sounds like a first-world MMO PVP problem to me. If that’s the worst thing happening to this class, I would say we are doing pretty kitten good.

Obtena.7952:

To me the obvious argument is that their intended work isn’t to make every weapon equivalent for every or even one game mode. You think all those weapons bring something to PVP and GS doesn’t? I think that’s disingenuous. If all weapons BUT GS bring something to PVP and GS doesn’t, I think it’s coincidental. Anet buffed the weapons recently because they were deficient from day one with obvious Guardian-flavoured effects, namely symbols, not to make them good for PVP. That’s simply an after effect.

Personally, i think you exclude GS from your ‘list’ just to create your point. It happened on Guardian? OK … what about the other 8 classes. I can tell you now, if Anet’s goal is to make every weapon a place in PVP for every class, you wouldn’t know it based on how long it’s taking to happen.

I wasn’t necessarily talking about PvP only though. Obviously not all weapons are amazing in every gamemode, nor do I ask that.

But since the OP talked about pvp I’ll tell you why I personally think GS is not in that list at all. (and no, it’s not just spouting nonsense to prove a point)

Greatsword has the niche of a melee burst weapon, correct? Reason I come to this conclusion is because the auto attack is low (so no sustained dmg), the damage skills have very high burst, it has a gap closer in the form of a leap to stay on target as well as a pull and it has little to no support or defense.

So why is it deficient in my opinion? In pvp I personally think it’s obvious. While it has loads of burst, you have no way of landing said burst on a target with half a brain. The symbol takes a long time to cast with a huge cooldown and roots you in the process, WW slows you down to the point someone can literally walk out of the burst and the CC/gap closer sadly just don’t rly do enough to stay on target. Combine that with the obvious lack of defense and you’re just a sitting duck, unable to either kill your oponent or defend yourself.

As for weapons on other classes… I’m sure they’ve had, are having and will have those discussions in their own subforums.

Obtena.7952:

The other obvious argument (that you make for me) is that every Guardian weapon, except one, is good in the PVP environment because it serves a purpose. Sounds like a first-world MMO PVP problem to me. If that’s the worst thing happening to this class, I would say we are doing pretty kitten good.

As I said in the other post I didn’t mean to imply every weapon was amazing in pvp. I was talking about general buffs and general meta changes. The point being that a buff to one weapon doesn’t need to force out another. There isn’t just a single “number 1” build.

And yes you’re correct. Guardian is in the best spot since HoT came out and will probably get a few deserved nerfs next balance patch, but that’s irrelevant. I see no major “guardian sucks” QQ posts. Just a discussion about a weapon.

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

The other obvious argument (that you make for me) is that every Guardian weapon, except one, is good in the PVP environment because it serves a purpose. Sounds like a first-world MMO PVP problem to me. If that’s the worst thing happening to this class, I would say we are doing pretty kitten good.

As I said in the other post I didn’t mean to imply every weapon was amazing in pvp. I was talking about general buffs and general meta changes. The point being that a buff to one weapon doesn’t need to force out another. There isn’t just a single “number 1” build.

And yes you’re correct. Guardian is in the best spot since HoT came out and will probably get a few deserved nerfs next balance patch, but that’s irrelevant. I see no major “guardian sucks” QQ posts. Just a discussion about a weapon.

There really is no reason to nerf Guardian at this point in time. It is dead middle of the pack in basically every game mode (Guardian is in a good spot after all). If anything, I’d be expecting Greatsword, Staff, and Mace buffs to get them in line with the other weapons. This is because then for once in this game, every choice will be completely viable on a class (except Torch 5, but we shouldn’t talk about Torch 5). There is no reason not to try and bring these weapons in line with the others.

@Obtena: Correct me if I’m wrong but your viewpoint is that greatsword does not need the buffs/changes requested by OP because its balancing depends on Anet’s conceptual view of the weapon as well as the fact that, in their opinion, it may be fine since it doesn’t have to be ideal in all game modes.

Your main points here are true; GS does fit the concept (it is a viable melee-burst weapon in all three game modes) and it may not be ideal in all game modes but is in some (it’s great for general pve, dungeons, some fractals and cleaving downs in pvp/wvw). Despite your arguments I think that GS deserves a second-look in terms of balancing for the following reasons:

• In terms of end-game, we have more viable options across ALL scenarios in two out of three of the game modes (pvp and fractals/raids in pve). I don’t think this would be the case were the greatsword truly filling its conceptual role as a melee-burst weapon. Conceptually, one may want to take a more defensive option in some scenarios, or the more offensive option (GS) in others for these game modes but as it turns out, the alternative(s) is (are) more effective regardless of the situation. Even in wvw, where GS largely remains part of the front-line meta for guards, I don’t see it as being that effective. Sword/shield out-classes GS in just about every situation save for cleaving downs.

• Other weapons have received buffs/changes similar to the ones that have been asked for here. By similar, I mean the requested buffs are intended to bring the weapon “up to speed” in terms of the current post HoT meta while still maintaining that weapon’s conceptual role.

• Skills definitely deserve buffs (or at least heavy consideration) with regard to balance. I don’t agree with you that the buffs are made just to fill the weapon’s concept, with the resulting prowess of the weapon being a side-effect. Anet deliberates on changes like these for a long time. If they could better fill in the concept of a weapon without affecting the balance, they would do so much more often. The way I see it, weapon changes such as adding symbols to sword/scepter are done primarily from a balance standpoint rather than a conceptual one.

I encourage you to consider the following viewpoint: People making or adding to threads like these are doing so because they think that the basic concept of GS and the viability of other options out there may be maintained without upsetting balance for other classes/guardian builds. These people have played GS on guardian for a considerable amount of time and have a very good feel of what its concept is and how effective it is in at least one game mode. They know very well that it is underperforming in two, probably three of the game modes for its intended role and the buffs they are requesting are in-line with the weapon’s concept. Think of threads like these as theory-crafting: What could we accomplish with GS if certain changes were made?

This is very semantic and not very pragmatic but nonetheless is worthwhile. Just look at the balance patch that brought us symbols on sword/scepter. It was an excellent balance-patch and many of the changes there were the verbatim suggestions made here on the forums.

Arcaedus.7290:

This is very semantic and not very pragmatic but nonetheless is worthwhile. Just look at the balance patch that brought us symbols on sword/scepter. It was an excellent balance-patch and many of the changes there were the verbatim suggestions made here on the forums.

Unfortunately, I don’t think disregard for the pragmatic leads us to much in these discussions. There are lots of things as you pointed out, that are nice to have; more options in all game modes is a nice to have for instance. Personally, I don’t think the question here is if GS should be buffed because it’s behind. I think the pragmatism comes in with asking a different question:

What is lacking (or excessive) in the Guardian and where can that lacking thing get buffed (or where is that excessive thing located so it can be nerfed)? Use another example … people want to nerf hard to dodge SOJ pull … but that skill addresses a critically lacking ability that Guardians have been missing.

Does improving GS really address a lacking or excessive thing in the class? I don’t think so, at least not the suggestions the OP makes. I think this really boils down to what are the changes trying to achieve … a more popular GS usage is just not compelling to me.

Arcaedus.7290:

(it’s great for general pve, dungeons, some fractals and cleaving downs in pvp/wvw).

What did I miss in PvE? GS has exactly one tiny niche in there, pulling stuff together for cleaving, if those enemies are properly positioned at all. If you don’t have a mesmer around, of course, since mesmer’s focus #4 is much more reliable. For anything else, GS unfortunately just sucks.

Gwaihir.1745:

LetoII.3782:

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

They just patched mace even though it’s still useless in every game mode.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Hammer mace focus is amazing and my favorite weapon set up by far. Not ideal for every situation but really really good.

miguelsil.6324:

Gwaihir.1745:

LetoII.3782:

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

They just patched mace even though it’s still useless in every game mode.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Hammer mace focus is amazing and my favorite weapon set up by far. Not ideal for every situation but really really good.

The autoattack rate is abysmal with a tiny heal.
It’s still our weakest link

What I want from greatsword:

1) Remove the projectiles from GS2. Condense all damage to the spinning attack. Have it hit 9 times total.

2) Buff the leap to 900 range.

3) Reduce the cooldowns:
GS2 8 sec
GS3 12 sec
GS4 15 sec
GS5 25 sec

4) Give us a new trait. Why does the greatsword get heals? It’s not what the weapon is for, we have mace for that.

New trait: Momentum
Critical strikes while wielding a greatsword increase your attack speed (stacking up to 15 times, 1% attack speed per stack). And 20% cdr, of course.

Oh btw, while we’re at it, did anet ever fix the bug where WW hits less on norns and charrs? I don’t believe so.

Thinking about it now, i think if you really want to make GS a decent choice, some good damage buffs would be needed, since you’re sacrificing off hand utility with focus or shield by using a GS (if going LB) for a bit better AoE and pull. IMO better damage would be nice for GS considering it is a AoE burst weapon.

GS needs some serious love.

LetoII.3782:

miguelsil.6324:

Gwaihir.1745:

LetoII.3782:

Pretty happy with my GS. Best leap, 2 whirl finishers, lots of AOE.
If we’re talking fixes I’d like to see mace not be awful

They just patched mace even though it’s still useless in every game mode.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Hammer mace focus is amazing and my favorite weapon set up by far. Not ideal for every situation but really really good.

The autoattack rate is abysmal with a tiny heal.
It’s still our weakest link

The auto atack is faster and stronger than hammer for ex. My 2nd auto from mace crits for nearly 5k. If they buff the heall to double would be nice but too much QQ would happen. Mace 2 could be faster on casting it.

biggest buff would be to make gs2 able to land all of its hits against anyone not a giant, stationary enemy, while standing outside of the center of their hitbox.

imo the best thing they can do is make #2 hit more reliably

Make Whirling Wrath function the same as Arc Divider with one single hit, and higher damage to lower health enemies.

Guardian Greatsword sorted.