Guild Wars 2

Black Box.9312:

zinkz.7045:

Black Box.9312:

zinkz.7045:

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

That’s all that I need to say. You have to figure things out for yourself; I’m not going to just give it all away.

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

Your big wall post is literally all QQ and zero attempt to learn counterplay. If this is really all you have as a response, then I guess you’re beyond help.

That is some nice empty rhetoric you got there, try again when you have an actual response.

Zinks, you’re very off base on a few items here.

Shelter is not passive play, it’s completely reactive.
I use it during Lich form or high AoE occurences. Even during a Thief’s burst if i’m expecting it. I’ve used the heal even when I have 100% health to gain Might, deal Burn damage or simply to block a 5k attack. (Hamwars, lich, etc)
Experienced Engineers can counter it nearly 100% of the time.

Aegis can definitely come up at the right moment to block a heavy attack. It can also get removed immediately by a pet or random 400dmg auto. The skill factor is activating it on a Ranger’s Maul, Lich, hamwar, downstates, etc.

Intelligent Sigils are needed on Hammer to reduce Glacial Heart’s random proc. 90% of the time, it’s expected to land on Mighty Blow. The only high burst skill hammer has. Everything else tries to complement that #2.

We Smite Condition when we have a condition, JI to trigger a combo or simply get in close, and CoP in high play scenarios. All of which have high CD’s. Any experienced player knows how to outplay a Guardian by exausting our long cd abilities and out sustain him. It’s so apparent that we’ve even asked for some quality of life changes.

We don’t have the passive heals that other classes possess. Sure wish we did.

To every Mesmer that is high on skill and “the shatter classic build” doesn’t satisfy them anymore I will recommend the guardian burst equivalent to the classic shatter (not the current meta medi build lol). Try 2/6/6/0/0 in hot join with Bane Signet instead of CoP and come back and tell us about your faceroll experience on guardian.

Or is Vigor something that Mesmers take for granted these days

Saiyan.1704:

Shelter is not passive play, it’s completely reactive.

You can only interrupt it with skills that go through the block, which many builds lack, it has limited counterplay and is far more forgiving compared to things like consume conditions, ether feast, etc, where it is far more important to cover the heal in some way (in this respect it is also passive), that you can use the block wisely (or not) does not alter that.

Saiyan.1704:

We don’t have the passive heals that other classes possess.

I agree to an extent (go see how much passive healing you get on mesmer), but my point about the passive heal is some try to brush it off as okay to have another lame passive skill because it is “weak”, when it is only 30hp less than what is considered a good master trait on engy (and also has an emergency heal on top of that).

Furthermore medi guard more than makes up in instant heals which are just as obnoxious & also lacking in counterplay.

Saiyan.1704:

All of which have high CD’s. Any experienced player knows how to outplay a Guardian by exausting our long cd abilities and out sustain him. It’s so apparent that we’ve even asked for some quality of life changes.

Any experienced player knows they are a team fighting build and how broken, how forgiving medi guard is, which is why you have people that have spent 2+ years on ele, playing medi guard instead and going to Germany in August.

Talking of experienced players a few weeks ago ROM was streaming, he was “marvelling” at how much punishment this medi guard, a supposed glass cannon could take with three of them focusing it, the word he summed it up with was “cheese”, he was spot on.

zinkz.7045:

Saiyan.1704:

All of which have high CD’s. Any experienced player knows how to outplay a Guardian by exausting our long cd abilities and out sustain him. It’s so apparent that we’ve even asked for some quality of life changes.

Any experienced player knows they are a team fighting build and how broken, how forgiving medi guard is, which is why you have people that have spent 2+ years on ele, playing medi guard instead and going to Germany in August.

Talking of experienced players a few weeks ago ROM was streaming, he was “marvelling” at how much punishment this medi guard, a supposed glass cannon could take with three of them focusing it, the word he summed it up with was “cheese”, he was spot on.

I can’t deny that Guardian is easier to play than Ele. That’s no different than saying power Ranger is easier to play than a Thief. Both of these are true but “forgiving” isn’t the word I would use. There’s certain circumstances that excelled these specific players to get to where they’re at now.

I’m a little behind on social media, what was the specifics of that instance? All Guardian’s have is 4 seconds of damage negation. I can’t imagine ROM calling a Zerk build “cheese” unless he was refering to its dps potential and/or our 4s damage negation. We get torn down by focus-target pretty easily.

lol wow Now medi guard is cheese huh? Thought I’d seen it all. Guess not.

Perfect example of why I try my best to stay away from these forums.

Tyreal.5230:

lol wow Now medi guard is cheese huh? Thought I’d seen it all. Guess not.

Perfect example of why I try my best to stay away from these forums.

Erm. This actually isn’t news if you tpvp. It’s been a common feeling for a bit almost entirely due to Monks Focus and high block time (making it a decently tanky zerker). More than cheesy it’s often called easy to play “low risk high reward”.

Personally, i don’t really care, but I do think many healing traits are too strong baseline negating the idea of being squishy and lessens the value of healing power, which i actually do find to be a problem and certainly not exclusive to Guardian.

ronpierce.2760:

Tyreal.5230:

lol wow Now medi guard is cheese huh? Thought I’d seen it all. Guess not.

Perfect example of why I try my best to stay away from these forums.

Erm. This actually isn’t news if you tpvp. It’s been a common feeling for a bit almost entirely due to Monks Focus and high block time (making it a decently tanky zerker). More than cheesy it’s often called easy to play “low risk high reward”.

Personally, i don’t really care, but I do think many healing traits are too strong baseline negating the idea of being squishy and lessens the value of healing power, which i actually do find to be a problem and certainly not exclusive to Guardian.

“low risk high reward” Said who?

zerker war – endure pain 2x (5s) berserker stance healing signet way better mobility than guard high base HP pool.

zerker thief – stealths, evades, ports.

zerker mesmer – invulnerabilities, stealths, clones.

zerker ranger – 1200 range, signet of stone (I think) 60s cd on best imobilize in game.

and now zerker medi guard healing from meditations and blocks. Thats basic of zerker guardians. Remove healing from meditations they are useless and dead in 5s……remove blocks and keep healing they are dead in 4s they simply need both to be playable and usefull melee zerker class.

I think Zinkz is just really salty about getting beat by Medi guard, which is why he’s pushing very hard to call it a low skill high reward build lame passive build(from the looks of the post). I’ve played Medi guard for the past two years now? There are times where I’ll play a different class for a while and come back to my medi guard and ask myself how the heck do I play this again? I know there are others who share the same experience, where they’ll fall flat on their face cause they didn’t manage their CDs effectively or reacted too slow, or just hesitate what to do next.

Now Zinkz as far as passives go lets go through them.

Virtue of Justice is a tid bit of damage, which takes kittens to proc a one second burn, This isn’t much at all unless you’re getting hit all the time by multi hit burst skills. Then it starts to add up. The active is alright.

Virtue of Resolve, sure you can compare it too Engi’s backpack regenerator, but you’re forgetting that Engineer has access to frequent regen to stack on top of it which makes it roughly 3 times as potent as Virtue of Resolve’s passive , not including the Engi’s ability to blast/leap their own water fields. Medi guards don’t have any access to Regen unless they take hold the line or SY, so those are out of the question. The only way medi guards would get regen is putting 1 in virtues for inspiring virtues, which would require you to pop VoR passive, so you don’t get both. It’s a long CD like VoC too.

Virtue of Courage the passive is not noticeable at all except for the first engagement. In any real fight if your opponent hasn’t forced you into using the active in the time for another aegis to pop up passively, then idk what type of person you’re facing but they really need to step up their game. The only thing that might be considered passive and popping up randomly against your opponent would be when it comes off its long CD(The thing is 90s base CD), when it does it puts up Aegis immediately.

Shelter. Yeah we have it as a heal and a block for 2s, In any way it gets interrupted by magnet pull, binding blades, traited fear mark, ward like abilities, = screwed most of the time for the guard since it gets put of full CD, the heal entirely reactive. The real strength of it comes from how much potential damage and effects it blocks. Engi Gear Shield(Lower CD block than Shelter about 10s lower), and Warrior’s Shield Stance( same CD but lasts for 3s, 1s longer than Shelter) also says hi.

@RonPierce you know it wouldn’t be a bad idea, if the attribute system wasn’t so restrictive in Spvp. You can’t allocate your stats where you want, and I doubt people will run Cleric/Magi amulet Medi guard and find it effective. Ofc if it’s for WvW then it can be okay since Zealots stats exist there and you can tailor the build to your liking of effectiveness. Strong Baselines are good, especially if they’re Grandmaster traits. If they were anything less it wouldn’t be worth investing into.

Shelter is fine. Yes, most skills don’t go through the block, so the counter-play is low. However, it punishes mistakes and poor use by the guardian. If you use Shelter, but aren’t blocking anything, you would have been better off with a higher HP/sec heal.

I would love a rewarding, high risk- high reward heal skill any day. Litany oh litany.

Arken.3725:

I would love a rewarding, high risk- high reward heal skill any day. Litany oh litany.

Well, at least half of that is true currently. One day we may get to see the other half. One can dream.

Guardians dont have anything decent outside meditations, against high mobility classes its the only options they have, mobility is the key in combat and the major factor to win a fight.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Arken.3725:

I would love a rewarding, high risk- high reward heal skill any day. Litany oh litany.

Well, at least half of that is true currently. One day we may get to see the other half. One can dream.

I’d say the one half that does exist is “Extremely high risk.”

-Lowest heal in the game
-Only healing skill needing traits to be even remotely appealing. (I can’t think of any other healing skill across any profession that needs to be traited)
-Given to the slowest profession that requires consistent damage…wha?
-Cd is relatively long

zinkz.7045:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Shelter’s heal is OK at best. If people wanted the heal for straight up healing, our signet does around 8k. Guards take shelter for the block and blowing a block at any time is dumb. If you’re struggling against people blowing shelter for the heal, I’ve got news you won’t particularly enjoy.

That the heal does less than healing signet is irrelevant to the point, it is a dumb skilless heal that you don’t have to position for or cover, because it lacks counterplay, which pretty much describes the healing in this build fullstop, passive healing, a heal that blocks, heals on instant cast meditations, even the active heal on the virtue is yet another instant skill.

SlayerSixx.5763:

If the passive aegis every forty seconds, which can be burnt by an auto attack, is giving you trouble, that news of mine is only going to sound worse.

Nothing to do with “giving me trouble”, it is simply more passive kitten, nor if you engaged your brain is it simply a case of removing the aegis, there is no indication of when the virtue is going to come off cooldown after being activated, when it does come back it applies aegis instantly, on occasion this has saved me on my guard, where assuming the opponent checked for aegis, it popped as they were using their skill, which is just more passive RNG with no counterplay.

SlayerSixx.5763:

100 HPS passive is OP? Well then.

As you conveniently ignored, the master level trait backpack regenerator on engy is a considered a good trait, it heals for 30 HP more, people trying to pass off the virtue’s passive healing (+the emergency heal) as near worthless are either dishonest or clueless, especially in a build that already has a ridiculous amount of healing, it is just more passive skills BS that make builds like medi guard faceroll.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Whacking away with the hammer as in what exactly? The auto? You’re getting hit by auto? Every attack on hammer is terribly telegraphed. Seriously, are you lagging?

Me? When I bothered to play this game, sometimes I would get immobilized, knocked down, etc by other players (this is not a duelling game) or sometimes I am already fighting so am low on cooldown /dodges, sometimes I simply make mistakes, so yes sometimes I do get hit by hammer skills, just as players who are going to WTS get hit by them, obviously you never get cc’d, have perfect positioning 100% of the time, etc and are off to Germany in August to win WTS 500-0, with your exceptional skills.

So back to reality, even the best players get hit by hammer auto sometimes, Glacial Heart is just another braindead passive proc on crit skill that makes builds like medi guard so noob friendly / braindead.

SlayerSixx.5763:

A passive 300 more burn damage every five hits. I suppose your perma poison on auto is OK though, right?

My perma posion? I responded in reference to a CI mesmer.

You keep complaining about shelter having no counterplay, but what if I told you that there was a class that had access to an instant, massive, dodge roll that cures certain conditions AND heals for a similar amount to shelter. Notice how, like when you block, dodging helps you avoid damage entirely. Also, don’t forget how this particular dodge roll helps you cover a lot of ground that you can use, in some cases, as a clutch gap closer.

I’d like to invite any theives who have no issues dropping guard, but I doubt they’d have the time nor the inclination to drop some of the simplest knowledge upon you.

You complain about blocks, passives, and instants, but don’t mention how easy it is for you to simply camp stealth for a moment (only skills you REALLY need to worry about are CoP and SoW) until the guard has been worn down. A guard without CDs is dead. A thief without initiative can still escape and return when the opportunity is right. Also, glacial adds like what? 1k extra damage?

You talk about getting randomly jumped in a team fight. Last time I watched a tournament, theives don’t involve themselves in team fights unless totally necessary, so how would this even be a valid point in your head?

Reality of the matter is, a good thief has more than enough tools at their disposal to drop a target. If you also want to talk reality, like others have mentioned, don’t forget that zerk thief has made every other zerk build unviable.

Zinkz is simply a serial whiner, just look at his post history.

He thinks all Thieves are mechanically OP and whines about medi guards about once a week.

Perhaps if he actually played the game and tried to learn skill animations and game mechanics instead of whining on the forums like a child denied candy he might overcome his gaming shortcomings and be able to win some fights.

Or perhaps he’s simply destined to remain fodder, both in-game and on the forums.

The nice thing about being “in a good place” is random crap like this will NEVER happen.

Amityel.5324:

zerker war – endure pain 2x (5s) berserker stance healing signet way better mobility than guard high base HP pool.

zerker thief – stealths, evades, ports.

zerker mesmer – invulnerabilities, stealths, clones.

zerker ranger – 1200 range, signet of stone (I think) 60s cd on best imobilize in game.

and now zerker medi guard healing from meditations and blocks. Thats basic of zerker guardians. Remove healing from meditations they are useless and dead in 5s……remove blocks and keep healing they are dead in 4s they simply need both to be playable and usefull melee zerker class.

Dude what?
Zerker Mesmer dies if you sneeze and he isn’t expecting and zerk ranger relys SO MUCH on their SoT to stand a chance against the other zerkers…

Do any of these crying kids actually know the next thing about guardian? Or are they just mad they lost to one so obviously it’s a game design problem?

ventusthunder.5067:

Do any of these crying kids actually know the next thing about guardian? Or are they just mad they lost to one so obviously it’s a game design problem?

Well given how few changes there have been to Guardians over the years, I think the Devs have answered that question definitively.