(edited by Jacion.6302)
Meltguard (seeking wvw advise)
1) Are you asking for a build for roaming/small skirmishhes (no more than 4-6 members) or for a guild WvW raid (12+)? Because the demand are way different.
Your GS+Rifle Warrior is mostly a “cloth hunter” which is basically a roaming build, and in scrins or small to mid skirmishes He specializes in taking down enemy casters, as necros, eles, hammer Revs, etc. He has the durability and mobility to endure damage, disengage, and wreak havoc in both long range and mele thanks to His damage.
2) In the Guardian class, if you want to deal damage at range you can use either longbow or scepter; staff doesn’t do damage. Staff is for buffing team mates (Swiftness, Empower…) or to farm bags checking downed enemies with autoattcaks that barely do damage. The longbow or scepter builds are essentially meditation builds, with little in common with the frontliner build from meta battle.
3) In guilds, Guardians provide stability and boons, and sometimes cc (hammer); they are the backbone of the guilds due they are the best source of team stability, but their damage is mediocre (most of them use very defensive stats, from soldier or knight in the bold ones to cleric, commander, mender or even nomad in the most conservative). This means low damage and few “personal” kills. You kill when your mele train tramples a mob.
If you want to save resources, I would advice you to get an armor with marauder stats; marauder armnor can be used for roaming with zerker trinkets, or be enough for WvW raids with defensive trikets (which are very affordable to farm in the new maps). And for the weapons I would recomend valkyrie stats: Guardians lacks HP.
4) In roaming Guardian/DH has a fair amount of sustain, PvP is the best location to learn how to survive as a duelling/skirmishing Guardian/DH. In large groups in WvW the survability of Guardian/DH oftenly depends on how well the damage dealers of yuour team do their job. In other words: as a “cloth hunter” your Warrior works wonders as a freelancer by itself; as a support frontliner the Guardian/DH can’t freely disengage: he must stay with the main group, be in the shadow of the raid leader and survive or die with their fellows. In this role Warrior isn’t only easier to play but also funnier.
1) Are you asking for a build for roaming/small skirmishhes (no more than 4-6 members) or for a guild WvW raid (12+)? Because the demand are way different.
Your GS+Rifle Warrior is mostly a “cloth hunter” which is basically a roaming build, and in scrins or small to mid skirmishes He specializes in taking down enemy casters, as necros, eles, hammer Revs, etc. He has the durability and mobility to endure damage, disengage, and wreak havoc in both long range and mele thanks to His damage.
2) In the Guardian class, if you want to deal damage at range you can use either longbow or scepter; staff doesn’t do damage. Staff is for buffing team mates (Swiftness, Empower…) or to farm bags checking downed enemies with autoattcaks that barely do damage. The longbow or scepter builds are essentially meditation builds, with little in common with the frontliner build from meta battle.
3) In guilds, Guardians provide stability and boons, and sometimes cc (hammer); they are the backbone of the guilds due they are the best source of team stability, but their damage is mediocre (most of them use very defensive stats, from soldier or knight in the bold ones to cleric, commander, mender or even nomad in the most conservative). This means low damage and few “personal” kills. You kill when your mele train tramples a mob.
If you want to save resources, I would advice you to get an armor with marauder stats; marauder armnor can be used for roaming with zerker trinkets, or be enough for WvW raids with defensive trikets (which are very affordable to farm in the new maps). And for the weapons I would recomend valkyrie stats: Guardians lacks HP.
4) In roaming Guardian/DH has a fair amount of sustain, PvP is the best location to learn how to survive as a duelling/skirmishing Guardian/DH. In large groups in WvW the survability of Guardian/DH oftenly depends on how well the damage dealers of yuour team do their job. In other words: as a “cloth hunter” your Warrior works wonders as a freelancer by itself; as a support frontliner the Guardian/DH can’t freely disengage: he must stay with the main group, be in the shadow of the raid leader and survive or die with their fellows. In this role Warrior isn’t only easier to play but also funnier.
For general 10-25man groups usually to answer your first question.
In response to your part-3 – I have a full set of marauders with durability runes.
I understand my warrior role in zerg/groups.
I think your point was that I need to stick tight to tag stack on guardian to succeed and that marauders isn’t optimal for can work?
I think I am looking more…for this post,for suggested stat ranges and skill usage that work well/rotations.
I understand role in group.
I get empower on stack before engage, lines to distrupt enemies push, skill 1 lootstick spam. Curious on stab stack order /timing, other skill timing, retaliation, gs or hammer and thier skills…generally the 3 special passive/activates…
(edited by Jacion.6302)
Are you just text chat following or are you on TS with them ?
If you are on TS then just ask and talk to them, see what and when is the best thing you can do. Also, things such as marauders + frontline = automatic down unless the people you run with provide you with extra sustain, which is the opposite of what a lot of guards do, you shouldn’t need the extra sustain from others outside of certain situations (pushing through chokes etc.) but rather provide it.
And last but not least are you running vanila guard only or DH ? There are relatively big differences.
A CC DH can go longbow / hammer, immob on F2, Dragon Maw. A pure support can go staff / mace shield, which is crap for DPS and has only some CC but the sustain it provides is awesome. And then everything else inbetween.
As a support guard you do not worry at all about your DPS, it is the last or next to last stat you care about, so things such as knights, valk, marauders, etc. etc. which are all DPS hybrids are relatively worthless. Go for base tank HP / Armor + boon duration with a bit of healing power ( around 600ish+) and you will notice a gigantic difference in your support ability and your heals will actually be somewhat effective (for example 5k on F2 usage + boons + better regen).
Trait wise for support you wanna go for starters with virtues, stab on F3, cleanse on F2, and AH for self sustain (later you can change out AH once you get better at it).
For utilities, I recommend for starters to lower your CDs on concecrations, and run purging flames or hallowed ground or wall of reflection + your other stab skills with Renewed Focus as elite. This you can switch around per group / fight types encountered. If you need more cleanse, then switch more cleanse, if you need all stabs, then switch to all stabs (FYI the DH stab trap is your worst stab util by far, but its still there). The one constant in utils should be your stab shout which is also a stun breaker.
HP wise and armor, at 3300 armor you are OK, HP you should aim for is a bit higher though around 20-22k, if you want to keep on tag and provide support for it.
Last but not least, dont be afraid to experiment, recently I even ran sanctuary, to place on tag during pushes or used as additional ranged CC and see people bounce of off it in chokes, that was just uber funnies.
So there is a ton of stuff you can do, and you can switch around, many times you will wipe to a group twice, then respawn, regroup switch around some utilities with 4-5 other people in group and some traits, then keep wiping them for rest of the raid. Not all stuff works same ways against all team comps. For example, if you go up against a power / boon team comp, then having additional condi cleanse is kinda pointless, just takes up valuable slots, likewise going up against a heavy condi not having enough team cleanses will also kill you.
Out of all that, 1st and foremost though, get together on TS and talk it over with your team, and do the starter builds (switch out once you get better) then go from there.
Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF
Are you just text chat following or are you on TS with them ?
If you are on TS then just ask and talk to them, see what and when is the best thing you can do. Also, things such as marauders + frontline = automatic down unless the people you run with provide you with extra sustain, which is the opposite of what a lot of guards do, you shouldn’t need the extra sustain from others outside of certain situations (pushing through chokes etc.) but rather provide it.
And last but not least are you running vanila guard only or DH ? There are relatively big differences.
A CC DH can go longbow / hammer, immob on F2, Dragon Maw. A pure support can go staff / mace shield, which is crap for DPS and has only some CC but the sustain it provides is awesome. And then everything else inbetween.
As a support guard you do not worry at all about your DPS, it is the last or next to last stat you care about, so things such as knights, valk, marauders, etc. etc. which are all DPS hybrids are relatively worthless. Go for base tank HP / Armor + boon duration with a bit of healing power ( around 600ish+) and you will notice a gigantic difference in your support ability and your heals will actually be somewhat effective (for example 5k on F2 usage + boons + better regen).
Trait wise for support you wanna go for starters with virtues, stab on F3, cleanse on F2, and AH for self sustain (later you can change out AH once you get better at it).
For utilities, I recommend for starters to lower your CDs on concecrations, and run purging flames or hallowed ground or wall of reflection + your other stab skills with Renewed Focus as elite. This you can switch around per group / fight types encountered. If you need more cleanse, then switch more cleanse, if you need all stabs, then switch to all stabs (FYI the DH stab trap is your worst stab util by far, but its still there). The one constant in utils should be your stab shout which is also a stun breaker.
HP wise and armor, at 3300 armor you are OK, HP you should aim for is a bit higher though around 20-22k, if you want to keep on tag and provide support for it.
Last but not least, dont be afraid to experiment, recently I even ran sanctuary, to place on tag during pushes or used as additional ranged CC and see people bounce of off it in chokes, that was just uber funnies.
So there is a ton of stuff you can do, and you can switch around, many times you will wipe to a group twice, then respawn, regroup switch around some utilities with 4-5 other people in group and some traits, then keep wiping them for rest of the raid. Not all stuff works same ways against all team comps. For example, if you go up against a power / boon team comp, then having additional condi cleanse is kinda pointless, just takes up valuable slots, likewise going up against a heavy condi not having enough team cleanses will also kill you.
Out of all that, 1st and foremost though, get together on TS and talk it over with your team, and do the starter builds (switch out once you get better) then go from there.
Thanks, that’s some solid information…
I had been thinking all day since first reply that I had a particular guildie I need to talk to to get things situated. I do use TS and will reach out further…
I had been thinking of dropping my gear back on warrior and building a new set for guardian off first replies slightly vague suggestion for gear but you clearly solidified that.
I like the idea of being at 3.3k armor same as war and my current hp does seem pitifully low. I don’t mind being super bunker on guardian becuase I have beserker if I want to see numbers flying all over the place.
The idea is to supplement our guild raids if we need more guards / stab and being viable in that aspect.
I do have HoT and I have full specialization unlocked so DH is an option at any point but I have read it adds dps for loss of support and the name of the game is support team from not wiping.
I could probably build out a full armor sethe in short order, I have the cash, what set particular do you suggest? It will take time to get full trinkets, low on laurels atm and I’d like to not convert my weapons off of marauders (hammer/GS/staff) becuase they work well with 2 of my other character.
I assume a another full set of durability runes is wise?
Minstrel’s Armor?
It will take time to get full trinkets, low on laurels atm and I’d like to not convert my weapons off of marauders (hammer/GS/staff) becuase they work well with 2 of my other character.
I assume a another full set of durability runes is wise?
You can buy all the ascendand trinkets (including back pieces) from the three new maps: Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay and Bitterfrost Frontier:
Use Unbound Magic to buy a permanent Blood Ruby ore in your city; will provide you 3 Blood Ruby a day. Do the 10 UM collect and use the air attack from gliding in that map; in 5 minutes you will get 5 Blood Ruby; also use this track in WvW rewards and PvP rewards to gain another 50 BR each time you complete the track. You will need 425 BR + a lot of unbound magic to get one amulet, one ring and one backpiece. You can set the stats end even reset them for a small cost. Farm the unbound magic just in this map.
Farm Petrified Wood in Ember Bay to get one earing. You only need to do this one time. Still get the UM from Bloodstone Fen.
Farm Fresh Winterberries in Bitterfrost Frontier; the whole path could cost you ~15 minutes and you can get 50+ berries in that time. Use them + UM to get the second ring and the second earing.
This is by far the easier and fastest way to get full ascended trinkets in the game. You can even buy the ascended underwater respirator in this way. Not a single laurel, gold coin or guild ticket is needed for this.
You dont have to have full sets of any particular gear, its not one stat that that counts but rather the stat totals. For example, if you lack in HP then switch your Chest + Legs to sentinel. If you need some concentration for boons and some healing power, then put in a few minstrel pieces, if you find that you have more then plenty, then mix in some of the marauder or berserker because at that point why not ? You can even use 2-3 pieces of Magi for some extra healing power and health + crit chance.
Durability runes are good, but unless you are running with a lot of people around you so you stack the buff to each they can lose their luster.
If you go against condi heavy groups, go with melandru and -20% condi duration foods, it helps a ton. Helps vs power groups too, as in that scenario its the immob that kills you, and immob is a condi, unless its ranger’s roots.
As far as DH vs Guard, DH is hands down more tanky, but the timers on virtues are longer and F3 has a casting time, its not instant, its quite a trade off. As a DH you often need to pre-cast your F3 to take full advantage of the reflect, as a guard you often pop it mid engagement instead. Guard virtues have lower CDs and all are insta cast, but less powerful.
For max stab you run Stand your Ground, Hallowed Ground, Fragments of Faith (DH only) and Indomitable Courage (trait for your F3) with Renewed Focus as elite.
Stand your ground is great and you should always have it, Hallowed Ground is good to precast on chokes or areas your group is pushing to, it provides stab + might via combo field, Fragments of Faith isnt that good, its a stun breaker, but its a trap centered on you and doesnt trigger the stab if an enemy doesnt enter it so there are many fights where it will be wasted.
Your F3 is very potent, both as a Guard and DH, it plays a little different. Your F2 as a DH has immobilize and a real nice group heal if you have some healing power. It becomes very potent if traited with Absolute Resolution.
F1 on DH is far superior to Guards, the pull is a very nice utility. As I said previously, a DH runing Hammer + Long bow + F1 skill + immob on F2 + renewed focus for double F1, or Dragons Maw on landing spot of your F2 skill is a very hard CC machine. But you will not provide anywhere near the support.
If you go super tanky, and you are providing direct support for your tag, and still find yourself going down, then use one of your utility slots and equip signet of judgement. the active is a stun breaker, but you’ll be using it for the passive, which stacks with all other damage reduction effects and works against all damage, power or condi. But you will end up giving up a utility slot for it, so use it wisely.
Food you can use either damage reduction + boon duration, or damage reduction + condi damage reduction, or -20% condi duration. Cary them all with you and switch accordingly.
Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF