Guild Wars 2

In case you don’t know me I’m Bullet Punch, mained Meditation Guard since forever, didn’t drop out of top 50 in TeamQ since the ladder reset (EU).

Having played DPS Guard in thousands of tournament games I have to say that it is pretty much lacking one thing which keeps them in this somewhat-but-not-really-viable-spot.

You can’t disengage. As soon as you enter a fight, no matter if it’s 1v1 or a teamfight, you either win the fight or you die. If you don’t have a target far away that you can port to with JI every class will be able to chase and kill you if you try to disengage.

The ability to disengage is one of the most important things for a zerker in a gamemode that has long and big fights you can’t survive if you are in it for too long. Often I can decide between trying to run and die 5 seconds later offpoint or just die onpoint, hoping to get a rez. Even if I my team gets the rez off, usually I just die again because I still have no cooldowns up and without cooldowns DPS Guard is really squishy. In the same situation a Mesmer or a Thief could just port out/stealth, reset themselves and return, making them way more reliable and making it way more possible to turn a teamfight arround.

I don’t know if the devs even want offensive Guardian to be viable (class design and such blah blah) but if they want to, here is my solution: Merciful Intervention with ground targeting (like Blink, Lightning Flash and Shadowstep, you know?). All of the sudden DPS Guard would have decent mobility and a decent ability to disengage. You could also use it to port to oponents, making it another way to apply your damage.

With this change you would pretty much solve every problem DPS Guardian currenty has. You would have to take this over Contemplation of Purity which means that you would have less condi cleanse and no real stunbreaker besides JI (which you usually shouldn’t use to stunbreak) so i don’t think it would make Meditation Guard overpowerd.

EDIT: I’m talking about high level TeamQ. I hope that is clear.

tl;dr:

I would love this but anet doesn’t take our suggestions

but then how will u kill the Texbi without contemplation

i would love to see this being implemented to give offense guards to opportunity to have 1/10th of the mobility of thief and cause bullit is a bit sad and need port clutch plays ye

You know what’s even better about being medi in spvp? your counter is the person just walking away from you because we have zero soft cc in that build.

Charak.9761:

You know what’s even better about being medi in spvp? your counter is the person just walking away from you because we have zero soft cc in that build.

You have JI, Binding Blade (combo it with JI to actually hit it), Leap of Faith, the imob from scepter and you have somewhat ranged damage from scepter (although you’re not really hitting decent players from max range since simply spamming q and e will let them avoid it). Also your teammates can cc stuff for you; when me and the hambow from my team time our cc we can 100-0 people in seconds.

Being somewhat easy to kite or at least easier than mesmer and thief (>implying it would be possible to kite a thief) definetly is a problem for offensive guardian, don’t get me wrong, but considering that you can basicly kill people with 2 autoattack chains (+sigil procs) that should probably stay as it is.

Personally I’d just like MI to target the lowest health ally in the area rather than the nearest ally. I find the ability is great for teleporting in at the last moment and then saving an ally, but if you have another ally next to you at full health, it’ll teleport you to him instead.

It being ground-targeted would be nice, but then it can’t be used to teleport through walls, making it less suited to saving allies (which I’m pretty sure was the original concept and intent behind the skill, hence the name).

This has been suggested multiple times in the past, yet we still have the same lack of escape mechanics that we have had since launch. It won’t ever change, since we are the “get in but don’t get out” class as anet has described us. Honestly after the last class run down they gave, I really do not think they see us as anything more than support either, considering that was ALL that they talked about in regards to guardian (being front line support)

Personally, I don’t even get too involved with team fights anymore for that reason. Unless I can pick off that random mes or thief that is on the outside of the point trying to get some health back, it just is not worth it to dive into a team fight unless you have every single CD up, and you HAVE to be out of that fight when they are gone. Otherwise, you are a lame duck waiting to be slaughtered.

Agreed, I like the idea. Not only does it solve the mobility issue (and it’s not like a huge fix either, since like you said you’d have to drop CoP for it, which is a bit of a compromise), but it also solves another issue: literally no one ever in the history of the game has ever used Merciful Intervention (not counting spirit weapon wall glitching), mostly because it’s completely broken and unreliable, in addition to being useless.

Bash.7291:

This has been suggested multiple times in the past, yet we still have the same lack of escape mechanics that we have had since launch. It won’t ever change, since we are the “get in but don’t get out” class as anet has described us. Honestly after the last class run down they gave, I really do not think they see us as anything more than support either, considering that was ALL that they talked about in regards to guardian (being front line support)

Personally, I don’t even get too involved with team fights anymore for that reason. Unless I can pick off that random mes or thief that is on the outside of the point trying to get some health back, it just is not worth it to dive into a team fight unless you have every single CD up, and you HAVE to be out of that fight when they are gone. Otherwise, you are a lame duck waiting to be slaughtered.

Well the point is not making Merciful Intervention better at what it is (which would still be super situational and usually useless). The point is giving DPS guard a tool to disengage.

If the devs don’t want that because it would be against the class design or the design of the skill… I guess I would have to accept that. At least getting a statement on that would be nice but oh well.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Bash.7291:

This has been suggested multiple times in the past, yet we still have the same lack of escape mechanics that we have had since launch. It won’t ever change, since we are the “get in but don’t get out” class as anet has described us. Honestly after the last class run down they gave, I really do not think they see us as anything more than support either, considering that was ALL that they talked about in regards to guardian (being front line support)

Personally, I don’t even get too involved with team fights anymore for that reason. Unless I can pick off that random mes or thief that is on the outside of the point trying to get some health back, it just is not worth it to dive into a team fight unless you have every single CD up, and you HAVE to be out of that fight when they are gone. Otherwise, you are a lame duck waiting to be slaughtered.

Well the point is not making Merciful Intervention better at what it is (which would still be super situational and usually useless). The point is giving DPS guard a tool to disengage.

If the devs don’t want that because it would be against the class design or the design of the skill… I guess I would have to accept that. At least getting a statement on that would be nice but oh well.

They literally have said multiple times that the design idea of the guardian is that they can get into fights fairly quickly, but are meant to stay in the fight without disengaging. Mostly in class update livestreams if you want to go hunting for it.

(side note, going through john peter’s posting history looking for a quote on that was rather sad getting back to the dec 10th big balance patch, and seeing how little feedback we really did get compared to every other class)

Bullet,

Its never going to happen. Like bash said the devs want guardian to be the first into combat and last out. The class is never going to get a way to disengage, ever. Its just how it is.

I feel that they designed guardian around the core idea that they will be using amulets like cleric, knights or soldiers for sustain. This is why when guardian goes zerker, their seems to be a lot of negatives that stop them from being too good. They referred to this as holes in roles….meaning there are intentional designs that prevent a class excelling too much in certain areas.

For guardian its:

1. Mobility
2. No options to disengage
3. Boon oriented…without them they start to become considerably weaker
4. Relies heavily on defensive cooldowns such as shelter, meditations etc…when they are recharging guardians become weak.

meh k

I think OPs ideas are sound.

As for Anet’s concept, well I don’t think it meshes well with reality at all, because of how combat resets and as long as they cling to it, the game will just be as it is. The necromancer is built around “attrition” and also not allowed to escape and while it’s great in a 1v1 situation it proves to be trouble when one gets focused. I think they’ll have to move away from such hardline concepts because the game doesn’t always play out the way as it is intended; we already see extreme examples in pve.

But in a good spot….

I like the Mercifull Intervention change idea more but i would settle with the old sword to come back even. Sword had ground targeting from the start back in 2011. Heres a video with ground targeting at 0:10
http://youtu.be/hThG0iQlUJY?t=10s

Dunno why they changed it since its just 600 range but would help atleast a little comboed with gs3.

Never going to happen.

Merciful Intervention would need to be made into a stun breaker too.

Ezrael.6859:

Never going to happen.

Merciful Intervention would need to be made into a stun breaker too.

Lightning Flash is a groundtargeted port and is no stunbreaker either.

Let me dream. :<

dreaming here with you bullet punch

GREAT IDEA imo))))))))))))))))

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

^This.

I prefer being squishier and having that power moved somewhere else more interesting (typically to ability power).

Fashion Mage.3712:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

^This.

I prefer being squishier and having that power moved somewhere else more interesting (typically to ability power).

Play a thief or a mesmer

Apolo.5942:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

Play a thief or a mesmer

I think you missed a part of what I said.

Meditation guardian is already a thing, you have ports, burst and support in one build. As I stated before the disengage/mobility is the last thing it’s missing to be as viable as other zerkers in high level tpvp.

If you want something that is tough, has no ninja stuff and a high hp pool you are probably the one who should switch classes and play warrior.

Apart from that it’s way too late for me to change classes ^-^

Apolo.5942:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

^This.

I prefer being squishier and having that power moved somewhere else more interesting (typically to ability power).

Play a thief or a mesmer

Play a warrior.

edit: Ninja’d

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Apolo.5942:

I would much rather they made the guardian tougher, with more sustain while on the offensive and increased the miserable hp pool. No the trait that its 6 deep and we need for something else does not count.

Much rather they made it an all in class, but a proper paladin, than a rogue wannabe in meaningless plate armor.

No? I don’t want to be a warrior clone, I want ports, bursts, fast stuff. I like the idea of a suporting glasscannon class but in order to make glass work in this gamemode you need to be somewhat mobile.

ninja guard > facetank warrior clone

Play a thief or a mesmer

I think you missed a part of what I said.

Meditation guardian is already a thing, you have ports, burst and support in one build. As I stated before the disengage/mobility is the last thing it’s missing to be as viable as other zerkers in high level tpvp.

If you want something that is tough, has no ninja stuff and a high hp pool you are probably the one who should switch classes and play warrior.

Apart from that it’s way too late for me to change classes ^-^

No, Guardian aka paladin is a warrior healer hybrid, not healer thief.

A guardian can be a lot of things. A paladin is just what you want it to be.

Like the above said, lack of disengage. What’s a guardian without the first into battle and the last out? What I would like to see, however, is maybe a Dagger or Bow that disengages us “dodge rolls” or “tele” away while doing half the damage as the scepter (but hits nearly every time I.e more consistent)
That would be interesting…

It’s hard not to be bitter when seeing the same things being suggested that I suggest right before/at launch.

But yeah, as Bash has said, this has been suggested plenty of times before and will not happen. Which is a shame, because any change to Merciful Intervention would improve the skill. (Or has someone came up with a good use for it since I stopped playing?)

Mobility (defined as: moving where and when you want) has been an issue since day one and it sorta defines the Guardian right now. Problem is that you can’t quite become the “immovable object” that the Guardian should be (if we can’t be mobile) without sacrificing everything else.

Fashion Mage.3712:

A guardian can be a lot of things. A paladin is just what you want it to be.

Sorry no, you heal, you wear plate, you are a paladin, you want to make it original then make it original and DIFFERENT, dont borrow the class troupes and expect to be ok to pull a 180 on it.

Apolo.5942:

Sorry no, you heal, you wear plate, you are a paladin, you want to make it original then make it original and DIFFERENT, dont borrow the class troupes and expect to be ok to pull a 180 on it.

Why do you talk like we would want them to change the class design? Meditations already exist, Merciful Intervention already teleports you, it’s not like we’re asking for an overhaul of the class.

Apolo.5942:

Fashion Mage.3712:

A guardian can be a lot of things. A paladin is just what you want it to be.

Sorry no, you heal, you wear plate, you are a paladin, you want to make it original then make it original and DIFFERENT, dont borrow the class troupes and expect to be ok to pull a 180 on it.

Funny, I don’t remember paladins using staves, scepters, tomes, and other magical foci. Not to mention guardians have low health, and around half of their abilities are based on or named after monk spells from GW1, with a few skills being named after or based on ritualist abilities (shelter, spirit weapons) and a few being named after paragon abilities (the shouts). There’s also the correlation between a guardian’s different virtues and a monk’s different prayers (justice virtue and smiting prayers, resolve virtue and healing prayers, courage virtue and protection prayers).

If anything, a guardian is a monk playing dress-up in heavy armor. However, as much as I’m a fan of monks, I know that the professions were likely intended to hold different archetypes depending on how they’re built. Although maybe some professions represent certain archetypes a little more heavily.

The guardian profession can be a lot of things, and a “paladin” is most certainly one of those things, but a paladin is only one of the things it can be. Maybe one of the archetypes a guardian was intended to represent wasn’t “ninja guardian” or whatever, but don’t merely call a guardian a paladin. It comes off as extremely simple-minded to me.

Fashion Mage.3712:

The guardian profession can be a lot of things, and a “paladin” is most certainly one of those things, but a paladin is only one of the things it can be. Maybe one of the archetypes a guardian was intended to represent wasn’t “ninja guardian” or whatever, but don’t merely call a guardian a paladin. It comes off as extremely simple-minded to me.

And i would be ok with it, if making a proper paladin (thus playing the class propperly) would not incredibly kitten your pvp viability.

Apolo.5942:

Fashion Mage.3712:

The guardian profession can be a lot of things, and a “paladin” is most certainly one of those things, but a paladin is only one of the things it can be. Maybe one of the archetypes a guardian was intended to represent wasn’t “ninja guardian” or whatever, but don’t merely call a guardian a paladin. It comes off as extremely simple-minded to me.

And i would be ok with it, if making a proper paladin (thus playing the class propperly) would not incredibly kitten your pvp viability.

Who are you to say that playing a “paladin” is playing the class “properly?”

ofcourse here are the lore pver’s that come and ruin a good thread

Arena.net have said in the past that they intend for the guardian to have very few ways of escape once they get into a fight. That is one of the core guardian weaknesses.

They have said though that they want guardians to quickly get into a fight via Teleport’s, leaps etc.. & that these abilities should allow guardians to stay on a target very effectively and stay alive when there.

So while the chances of us (guardians) ever getting a better means of escaping fights is low it is possible that in the future they will add more abilities that allow us to better stay on our targets, survive & CC.

So if we really ever end up needing a boost I can see things like cripple, weakness, chill, daze, stun, leaps, teleports & self healing getting added/boosted before we get escape mechanics.

That might help as well. Even when I build around an incredibly high mobility (tried a build with Sword/Greatsword, Judge’s Intervention and Signets to incapacitate enemies) I’m kited rather easy. And you give up so much that you’re down rather quickly.

If we get more ways to keep our foes into the fight, even if they don’t want to be, that would be pretty great.

Anet were pretty clear in that they dont want guardians and necromancer have a good way to disengage.

Necromancers have flesh worm which can work as a disengage, but placing the wurm has a long casttime and the wurm is visible, so you know where the necro will teleport to. An other thing for necros to disengage is spectral walk but here you also know where the necro will teleport to and he has only a limited time to use it, which makes the skill rather lackluster to disengage.

So if Anet will ever give guardians any form of a more reliable disengage it will have rather hard conditions to use like the necromancer ones.

With that in mind i am pretty sure that merciful intervention will ever be a simple groundtargeted teleport spell. But maybe a change like that would be doable:

Make it groundtarget and then teleport to the nearest ally in the target area, if there is no ally dont teleport and get the heal yourself.

In that sense it would lose its randomness but would still need an ally to disengage.

But i am not sure if this would help that much but a good relaible disengage is something guardian will never get, sadly…

Lol, it seems they changed MI like i proposed…

I hope i didnt give them a bad idea…

Still can’t blink to open terrain. Has to be an ally. But still a welcome change! Can have more small battlefield movement. Save that ally being focused with a heal and deliver your burst around him.

KEKSMUFFIN YOU ARE A GOD

14k gold. I am kinda Jelly. :P

Use Line or Ring of warding.

Mobility skills aren’t the only way to escape. Just slow others down so they can’t catch you.

As an avid PvE guy, I am kinda sad with the merciful intervention change. The only time I used it was in Dredge fractal, I was able to open the second door, and teleport into the cage with me team, now that it is ground targeted, I won’t be able to