Minimum desired Stats
I’m not sure to understand what you are asking for, it can be several thing.
There is no threshold for vitality and toughness other than your own. You want an little of these as you can since you only improve your survivability. If you can play comfortably wihtout any of those, great. If you need some, take what you need, but not more. There is people trying to find the good balance between vitality and toughness. The goal here is to know what is the ratio of vitality vs toughness you should have to get the most bang for your buck. I don’t know if you are asking for that, but I think there is a lot of different school of thought on that issue.
There is also no threshold for Power and Ferocity. You want as much as you can get. For precision, you don’t want to get higher than 100%, but this is only an issue in group that buff each other and not for all profession. Any threshold for those stats would be arbitrary. But again, there is research done on the golden ratio between Power, Precision and Ferocity to maximize your dmg for the same amount of points.
Same go with Condition damage. The more you can get, the better. But it usually come at the expense of another stats, so you need to prioritize. I guess you could try to find the best balance between power and condition for a hybrid build, but I don’t there is much research into that, since condition isn’t that popular in PvE.
It seem that you ask a question about personal preference, not an objective one.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
There are discernible thresholds behind some of the stats. For instance, why is 5k DPS bad, but 12K DPS good? If 15K DPS is optimal, how much lower can it go before its no longer effective? How much armor is needed to properly mitigate certain types of attacks?
My problem is that I don’t the resources to systematically do testing, nor do I have enough understanding of how the new down leveling works (which has a huge impact at the moment) to interpret those results properly.
The only sort of thing I can see that’s valuable to know about stats is when they get hard capped in down-scaled zones.
The best example I can offer is Tequatl. The fight area is level 66 which means any attribute will be hard capped at 2552 points (1830 is what it will show up as in that zone). What that means is any value higher than 2552 will stay be scaled as 2552. So, in cases like that you are better off moving your points to other stats that have not hit the hard cap. This particular hard cap ranges from low 2000’s all the way up to mid 2900’s that correlates to levels 2-79’s downscaling.
Other than that, choosing stats in PvE is entirely based on the player. In your example of saying that 15k DPS is optimal, I would consider something like 14k DPS no longer effective if I traded that extra 1k for a couple hundred points of health.
In PvE, optimal is considered to be the most amount of damage while still being able to stand on your own two feet. Some players can achieve that comfortably through builds that resemble the ‘zerker’ or ‘meta’ builds. Others need to take more defensive traits or even more defensive gear. Unfortunately, every player is different, and there’s no universal set of stats or build that will get you through every content in the game at your desired pace/difficulty. However, if that’s your goal to obtain a ‘universal’ build than you are your best critic; only you will be the best judge of what you think you need more of or what you can do without.
Didn’t know about the hard cap. See, good things to know. :P
There are discernible thresholds behind some of the stats. For instance, why is 5k DPS bad, but 12K DPS good? If 15K DPS is optimal, how much lower can it go before its no longer effective? How much armor is needed to properly mitigate certain types of attacks?
My problem is that I don’t the resources to systematically do testing, nor do I have enough understanding of how the new down leveling works (which has a huge impact at the moment) to interpret those results properly.
How much armor is needed to properly mitigate certain types of attacks? Zero. You need a lot of armor to mitigate properly attacks in PvE. Just to give you an exemple. A guardian will have 2271 Armor at level 80 with no additional toughness. You would need around 1170 additional toughness to protect yourself as much as protection would. And a guardian can get perma protection for himself, but also his team.
Even worst. Aegis, Blind, reflect, dodge, block, invulnerable. They all block 100% of the attack. Something that armor can’t do. In PvP you can’t really predict all incoming damage and you can’t really keep perma protection, so Armor make sense. For PvE, not really since there is other option superior.
For your damage. There is not a acceptable threshold other than what you think is good. For someone the only damage acceptable is the optimal. For other they don’t really care. DPS have wait too many variable too. You can have most optimal build and gear, but do less dps than someone with another build. Potion, foods, rotation, team buffing, etc All those thing are so important. Build itself is only a small portion of your DPS. That is why kicking someone for being the ’’wrong’’ profession or not playing the exact meta is just stupid.
Like I said before. Take the amount of defensive attribute you absolutely need and put the rest into offensive stats.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
There are discernible thresholds behind some of the stats. For instance, why is 5k DPS bad, but 12K DPS good? If 15K DPS is optimal, how much lower can it go before its no longer effective? How much armor is needed to properly mitigate certain types of attacks?
My problem is that I don’t the resources to systematically do testing, nor do I have enough understanding of how the new down leveling works (which has a huge impact at the moment) to interpret those results properly.
How much armor is needed to properly mitigate certain types of attacks? Zero. You need a lot of armor to mitigate properly attacks in PvE. Just to give you an exemple. A guardian will have 2271 Armor at level 80 with no additional toughness. You would need around 1170 additional toughness to protect yourself as much as protection would. And a guardian can get perma protection for himself, but also his team.
Even worst. Aegis, Blind, reflect, dodge, block, invulnerable. They all block 100% of the attack. Something that armor can’t do. In PvP you can’t really predict all incoming damage and you can’t really keep perma protection, so Armor make sense. For PvE, not really since there is other option superior.
For your damage. There is not a acceptable threshold other than what you think is good. For someone the only damage acceptable is the optimal. For other they don’t really care. DPS have wait too many variable too. You can have most optimal build and gear, but do less dps than someone with another build. Potion, foods, rotation, team buffing, etc All those thing are so important. Build itself is only a small portion of your DPS. That is why kicking someone for being the ’’wrong’’ profession or not playing the exact meta is just stupid.
Like I said before. Take the amount of defensive attribute you absolutely need and put the rest into offensive stats.
face palm If traits were the issue, I wouldn’t be asking about the stats, as I could easily min/max around a central theme. If I was after meta I would just go all Zerks and run Medi for the obvious DPS potential. Saying “take the amount you absolutely need” without giving any guide lines on how to establish that is like saying “we need a gallon of Lava, btw don’t kill yourself”. That logistical detail on how not to get killed would be rather critical to planning such an operation.
So lets me this easier…..
So if 2200 armor isn’t tanky, and 3100 is super tanky, is 2800 armor “tanky enough” if I was shooting for a tanky character setup?
Whatever threshold numbers you are looking for are completely subjective. No one can answer this question for you because it’s player-dependent. What is super tanky and not? Depends what stats you need to tank with. There are many people in this game that ‘tank’ with their base defensive stats, using pure zerker gear. Some of those people tank BETTER than someone in full Nomads.
As another example, you may encounter groups where the minimum desired stats is no less than a full exotic, zerker stats build. There is no real theorycrafting that has been done that puts a line in the sand and says “This number represents the boundary between bad and good DPS or defense”
So lets me this easier…..
So if 2200 armor isn’t tanky, and 3100 is super tanky, is 2800 armor “tanky enough” if I was shooting for a tanky character setup?
That’s up to you to answer. As already mentioned PvE isn’t at all strict about what numbers you can run (aside from the caps).
For me, 2200 Armor on a Guard in PvE is Tanky enough. If I need to be tankier I grab a Hammer instead of my Greatsword for the perma-protection. If I want to never die I also throw in Soldier’s gear.
My goal in PvE is DPS so I adhere to berserker stats and traits and just use my Guard features to stay alive.
In contrast,
Theory crafting for PvP/WvW, that’s a whole different story. In those realms there are thresholds you want to meet. If this thread were asking for a WvW build we would be able to spit out more solid numbers.
Let’s say you wanted to go for a frontliner role in WvW. 2800 Armor would be what I considered Tanky-enough. 20-30% Crit chance is what you want to aim for (pre-fury). An HP pool of 15-16k is bare minimum especially with conditions making a return. The rest you want to put in Power. Ferocity would be the ‘dump stat’.
If you were to come to the fight with Berserker equipment and say that you were going to frontline I would have to question your sanity as stats in this realm DO matter.
Anyways, back to PvE,
We have already determined that virtually all content in PvE can be done with zero investment in defensive stats, and any investment pulled away from offensive stats is considered bad DPS. As Thad and Obtena have already brought up, it’s all about the player. Give me a team that is wearing no equipment whatsoever (except weapons only because it’s required for 1-5 skills), and they have the potential to out-dps a full berserker team while simultaneously being able to out tank a full nomad team.
TL;DR Stat distribution are up to the player to decide in PvE.
(edited by savacli.8172)
face palm If traits were the issue, I wouldn’t be asking about the stats, as I could easily min/max around a central theme. If I was after meta I would just go all Zerks and run Medi for the obvious DPS potential. Saying “take the amount you absolutely need” without giving any guide lines on how to establish that is like saying “we need a gallon of Lava, btw don’t kill yourself”. That logistical detail on how not to get killed would be rather critical to planning such an operation.
So lets me this easier…..
So if 2200 armor isn’t tanky, and 3100 is super tanky, is 2800 armor “tanky enough” if I was shooting for a tanky character setup?
I don’t know what to tell you man. You are asking subjective numbers and you could have 100 different answer from 100 different person. I can tell you what is mine.
The minimum armor is far than enough for a character that you know. For a new character I used to take 2-3 pieces of knight armor or something like that just to give me some room for error. But took those off as soon as I got more comfortable with the profession. But even then it will vary depending on which profession. On my mesmer I went directly full zerker, on my warrior I had 2 pieces of knight, but on my elementalist I had 3-4 pieces of valkyrie and some defensive trait and skill since I had a really hard time when I first started playing it.
If your goal isn’t to train before you go full zerker (or assassins/sinister/rampager), then maybe someothing like Zealot could be a better choice for you. It’s easy to make a good support guardian now with the new trait. That’s what I play currently because i’m bored with the traditional meta these days. I take a Zeal/Virtue/Honor with Hammer & Mace/Focus with Zerker gear. But with the decent amount of healing of this build Zealot could be a good amount of fun for you.
It’s all subjective and personnal. Sorry that we can’t give you an specific answer.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD