Guild Wars 2

Hi all, I just wanted to share the build I’m currently using in PvE, please be free to take a look, maybe try it and let me know if you like it or if something needs some work.
Although I know most of DPS guardians like to go with Knight armor, I find those additional 2,7k hp pretty important for my general survivability while still having high precision and crit chance.
I tried so many builds over the past months, from cleric to berserk, and magi too (yes, I spent an insane amount of gold/tokens for my guardian equip) and imho that one has best DPS/survivability ratio.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUMQJARWlYgyCXFyIEfYFRuA7DAsqQ8wegxMC/rCUE-jAyAoLIMGAhBgABl9KiGbltIasabMNMRUtQAlXAA-e

P.S.
Pleas, don’t give so much importance to utility skills, as you may know they are constantly changing based on the situation I’m going to face.

Does not look very “ultimate” to me. If I want to have big survivability while still dealing some damage, I can take an AH build with zerker or knight gear. That should toss out at least the same damage while still retaining far greater flexibility. For damage, the typical zerker builds stomp everything else into the ground anyway.

CptAurellian.9537:

Does not look very “ultimate” to me. If I want to have big survivability while still dealing some damage, I can take an AH build with zerker or knight gear. That should toss out at least the same damage while still retaining far greater flexibility. For damage, the typical zerker builds stomp everything else into the ground anyway.

this… my hammer ah/pure of voice build easily outdamages this while providing nearly 10x the team support and damage reduction

bad build is bad , you have a bunch of precision and no crit dmng , why?

traits are just bad too spread out
too much focus on virtue of justice instead of taking useful traits line and maximizing stats

Bogy.2953:

bad build is bad , you have a bunch of precision and no crit dmng , why?

Because of empowering might and omnoberry pies. I know my crit damage is not high.

Bogy.2953:

traits are just bad too spread out
too much focus on virtue of justice instead of taking useful traits line and maximizing stats

Why spread out traits are just bad? What are useful traits line for such a build?

Clumsy.6257:

this… my hammer ah/pure of voice build easily outdamages this while providing nearly 10x the team support and damage reduction

hammer hits hard but it’s soo slow, I doubt you can outdamages a GS, especially against large mob groups.

stemare.2578:

Bogy.2953:

bad build is bad , you have a bunch of precision and no crit dmng , why?

Because of empowering might and omnoberry pies. I know my crit damage is not high.

Bogy.2953:

traits are just bad too spread out
too much focus on virtue of justice instead of taking useful traits line and maximizing stats

Why spread out traits are just bad? What are useful traits line for such a build?

Clumsy.6257:

this… my hammer ah/pure of voice build easily outdamages this while providing nearly 10x the team support and damage reduction

hammer hits hard but it’s soo slow, I doubt you can outdamages a GS, especially against large mob groups.

And that’s where you’re wrong. Any “slowness” people experience with Hammer is just their own perception. It is balanced to do just as much damage as anything else, including the GS. I believe the 1h sword is our highest DPS weapon, and GS/Hammer are nearly tied. Not to mention that Hammer gives you so much utility and GS turns you into a glorified spinny Warrior.

I think we can be more fair to the OP actually. You may not be aware that you get less effective damage mitigation as your toughness/armor increases so at 3200+, your a little high for most people’s taste. Tone that back to about 3000+ by removing knights trinkets and you can go with zerkers, giving you better balance between your damage and your defense.

I don’t see anything particularly bad here, it’s just not typical. I question the sigils and runes but those are just minor issues. I think you will find the amount of vitality you have will be more than you need once you build your confidence in playing.

There is no diminishing returns on toughness. In fact the more armor you have the more powerful signet of judgement becomes, so stacking a ton of toughness is actually good if you take it as a utility. That said, for PvE there’s no reason to stack defenses quite so high, since killing things faster is generally better.

Danson.1094:

I believe the 1h sword is our highest DPS weapon, and GS/Hammer are nearly tied.

Maybe in 1 vs 1, but PvE is almost never 1 vs 1. What I love of GS and can’t live without is Binding Blade, such a useful skill.

Anyway I think I’m trying to raise some crit damage lowing HP and toughness.

be very VERY careful about what labels you apply to builds. tags like “ultimate”, “best”, etc. imply that the build you present is the be-all, end-all that everyone playing that class needs to use, and if they play anything else, they’re doing something horribly wrong. people have already pointed out flaws in your build that are just inherent to its setup, and no amount of stat allocation is going to change that, which renders your title moot. personally, i use sword/focus and staff, and have zero problems with them.

alright, now to the meat of it. your toughness and vit are far too high. aim for something like 16-14k hp and 3k armor. the rest should go into crit dmg so you can take advantage of you high precision. also, you have 30 points in honor, why not take Pure of Voice and do away with the soldier runes? there are a lot of interesting choices for runes like Pack, Lyssa (my fav), Ogre, and Scholar, to name a few.
here’s a start for you:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYgyCXFyIEfYFRuA7DAsqQ8wegR43xrCUE-jQyAoLIMGAhBgABl9KiGbxtIasabMlbi0wC1CBUeBA-e
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1n.h15|6.1c.h1l|1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e.1c.7e|21j.0.2s.0.31j.0.2s.0.31j.0.2v.0|a2.f6.a6.u298.5|55.7|v.16.19.1b.1i|e

the first link is for the site you are using, the second one will show you the effective power and health of builds, allowing you to quickly judge the difference in power between multiple builds and optimize your setup.

Well, rune of the scholar are pretty bad for a melee and cost way too much. For the rest it’s an interesting build, but you took away 20% faster recharge on 2h weapons which means less spam and less DPS.

Oh… the title actually is to bring more attention to the topic >_<

stemare.2578:

Well, rune of the scholar are pretty bad for a melee and cost way too much.

Though the price argument is a valid point, there is only one possible answer to the first part: learn to dodge.

For the rest it’s an interesting build, but you took away 20% faster recharge on 2h weapons which means less spam and less DPS.

The DPS gain from most GS attacks is minimal or even negative compared to the simple autoattack. Hence the recharge is sometimes nice, but not required.

CptAurellian.9537:

Though the price argument is a valid point, there is only one possible answer to the first part: learn to dodge.

Be sure, I know how to dodge, but it’s simply not enough to mitigate all damage, especially if you go melee, otherwise all builds would be all berserk + scholar and gg.

CptAurellian.9537:

The DPS gain from most GS attacks is minimal or even negative compared to the simple autoattack. Hence the recharge is sometimes nice, but not required.

I disagree with you in this point.
skill #2 hits all mobs around you, #1 has a much smaller AoE. Also, faster attacks means more crits and more burning.
skill #3 hits hard, blinds and is a leap finisher, which all together is better than an autoattack
skill #4 puts retaliation and does damage -> just more free DPS
skill #5 is not for damage but for pulling mobs.

stemare.2578:

Bogy.2953:

bad build is bad , you have a bunch of precision and no crit dmng , why?

Because of empowering might and omnoberry pies. I know my crit damage is not high.

Bogy.2953:

traits are just bad too spread out
too much focus on virtue of justice instead of taking useful traits line and maximizing stats

Why spread out traits are just bad? What are useful traits line for such a build?

Clumsy.6257:

this… my hammer ah/pure of voice build easily outdamages this while providing nearly 10x the team support and damage reduction

hammer hits hard but it’s soo slow, I doubt you can outdamages a GS, especially against large mob groups.

you have staff n gs auto to give might already , you are relying on omnom n sigil for all your sustain because your traits are bad

you focus way to much on virtue of justice spam with traits and get lousy stats because of that you would be much better going ah build and being able to use other runes/cons since ah would sustain you and you would get alot more crit dmng

stemare.2578:

Well, rune of the scholar are pretty bad for a melee and cost way too much. For the rest it’s an interesting build, but you took away 20% faster recharge on 2h weapons which means less spam and less DPS.

as a previous person said, learn how to dodge. that is the best way to stay at near full. think about this: you have permanent vigor, so your dodges come back quickly, you have a blind on gs3, and an interrupt on gs5. plus, if things get really hairy, you can just drop back to range with staff and regen up and tossing out the occasional empower. if all that isnt enough to keep you alive, much less at near full, then i would pick a different rune set (though personally, i think if the above is happening, youd need to rethink your playstyle.)

also, cdr is nice, but not needed; just manage your cds better. you’ll get more damage out of more stacks of might (works well with Pack or Strength runes btw) than you will with 20% cdr. most damage comes from auto-attacks anyway, not the other skills, so cdr is useless in that sense. as a side note: EM is more versatile in builds than THM is. So why sub in Pure of Voice? to give the party (and yourself) some on-demand condition removal, something your original lacked. Signet of resolve won’t be enough; maaaaybe if you paired it with the Purity trait, you could get away with it, but not by itself. and if you ever dont run shouts, you can sub in Battle Presence to give the party some much needed regen.

ArashiKai.2496:

stemare.2578:

Well, rune of the scholar are pretty bad for a melee and cost way too much. For the rest it’s an interesting build, but you took away 20% faster recharge on 2h weapons which means less spam and less DPS.

as a previous person said, learn how to dodge. that is the best way to stay at near full. think about this: you have permanent vigor, so your dodges come back quickly, you have a blind on gs3, and an interrupt on gs5. plus, if things get really hairy, you can just drop back to range with staff and regen up and tossing out the occasional empower. if all that isnt enough to keep you alive, much less at near full, then i would pick a different rune set (though personally, i think if the above is happening, youd need to rethink your playstyle.)

also, cdr is nice, but not needed; just manage your cds better. you’ll get more damage out of more stacks of might (works well with Pack or Strength runes btw) than you will with 20% cdr. most damage comes from auto-attacks anyway, not the other skills, so cdr is useless in that sense. as a side note: EM is more versatile in builds than THM is. So why sub in Pure of Voice? to give the party (and yourself) some on-demand condition removal, something your original lacked. Signet of resolve won’t be enough; maaaaybe if you paired it with the Purity trait, you could get away with it, but not by itself. and if you ever dont run shouts, you can sub in Battle Presence to give the party some much needed regen.

there are very few situations in high end pve where well timed dodging will be able to keep you at higher than 90% hp (note: high end =/= cof), ruby orbs are much more reliable and once you drop the scholars you no longer need to stay above 90% meaning you can go full berserkers and actually increase your damage well past a 10%

fishergrip.4082:

There is no diminishing returns on toughness. In fact the more armor you have the more powerful signet of judgement becomes, so stacking a ton of toughness is actually good if you take it as a utility. That said, for PvE there’s no reason to stack defenses quite so high, since killing things faster is generally better.

There is most definitely diminishing returns on toughness. I attached the generally accepted formula for damage dealt as a function of armor from GW2Wiki. Damage dealt is inversely proportional to armor. Therefore, there has to be a decreasing rate of damage prevented as you stack toughness.

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Also Signet of Judgement is more powerful for lower armor values because the 10% damage you prevent having no armor is greater than the 10% you prevent with alot of armor. If you stack toughness, giving you lots of armor, then using signet of Judgement would not be considered the best use of a utility slot.

Generally, those % damage mitigations are best used when you have very little toughness/armor.

Obtena.7952:

fishergrip.4082:

There is no diminishing returns on toughness. In fact the more armor you have the more powerful signet of judgement becomes, so stacking a ton of toughness is actually good if you take it as a utility. That said, for PvE there’s no reason to stack defenses quite so high, since killing things faster is generally better.

There is most definitely diminishing returns on toughness. I attached the generally accepted formula for damage dealt as a function of armor from GW2Wiki. Damage dealt is inversely proportional to armor. Therefore, there has to be a decreasing rate of damage prevented as you stack toughness.

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Also Signet of Judgement is more powerful for lower armor values because the 10% damage you prevent having no armor is greater than the 10% you prevent with alot of armor. If you stack toughness, giving you lots of armor, then using signet of Judgement would not be considered the best use of a utility slot.

Generally, those % damage mitigations are best used when you have very little toughness/armor.

off topic but does protection stack with signet of judgement?

It stacks in the sense that (in theory) Protection lowers your incoming damage and then Judgement takes 10% off the remainder, yeah.

Obtena.7952:

There is most definitely diminishing returns on toughness. I attached the generally accepted formula for damage dealt as a function of armor from GW2Wiki. Damage dealt is inversely proportional to armor. Therefore, there has to be a decreasing rate of damage prevented as you stack toughness.

That kind of DR is simply necessary to prevent toughness from becoming overpowered once you stack it.

Clumsy.6257:

ArashiKai.2496:

stemare.2578:

Well, rune of the scholar are pretty bad for a melee and cost way too much. For the rest it’s an interesting build, but you took away 20% faster recharge on 2h weapons which means less spam and less DPS.

as a previous person said, learn how to dodge. that is the best way to stay at near full. think about this: you have permanent vigor, so your dodges come back quickly, you have a blind on gs3, and an interrupt on gs5. plus, if things get really hairy, you can just drop back to range with staff and regen up and tossing out the occasional empower. if all that isnt enough to keep you alive, much less at near full, then i would pick a different rune set (though personally, i think if the above is happening, youd need to rethink your playstyle.)

also, cdr is nice, but not needed; just manage your cds better. you’ll get more damage out of more stacks of might (works well with Pack or Strength runes btw) than you will with 20% cdr. most damage comes from auto-attacks anyway, not the other skills, so cdr is useless in that sense. as a side note: EM is more versatile in builds than THM is. So why sub in Pure of Voice? to give the party (and yourself) some on-demand condition removal, something your original lacked. Signet of resolve won’t be enough; maaaaybe if you paired it with the Purity trait, you could get away with it, but not by itself. and if you ever dont run shouts, you can sub in Battle Presence to give the party some much needed regen.

there are very few situations in high end pve where well timed dodging will be able to keep you at higher than 90% hp (note: high end =/= cof), ruby orbs are much more reliable and once you drop the scholars you no longer need to stay above 90% meaning you can go full berserkers and actually increase your damage well past a 10%

i’ll concede that point. what i am trying to point out are different rune/orb sets that could give him more of what he needs. Scholar runes were some of the first sets i thought of, i just completely forgot about orbs as well :P

So, according to your appreciated critics, I put down a new build to test, please give me some feedback. Thank you.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUMQJARWlYgyCXFSKEf4ERVh4h9AjwvjXPoYCZIA-jwxAYsARbgICAJwioxWZLiGruGT5SEVLEQ5FA-e

P.S.
I still don’t like hammer for general PvE. :P

Pure of Voice and Soldier runes is a bit overkill. Especially when it comes to pve.

Harbinger.8637:

Pure of Voice and Soldier runes is a bit overkill. Especially when it comes to pve.

Yeah… maybe Rune of the Wurm is the way.

Drop Strength in Numbers, use Purity. Then use Shelter instead of Signet of Resolve. If you aren’t traited for signet cooldowns and you have Purity, Shelter is the better option for its utility as a block.