Guild Wars 2

Just gotta say, I’ve played quite a bit of pvp and I noticed that it’s almost impossible to dodge the Dragonhunters elite skill Dragon’s maw. It ruins pvp and the fun in the game. Personally I hate the trap guard and all the new condi bunker builds out there since they are just faceroll.

just use your stability/stunbreaker (often 1 n the same) and dodge. if u stability is on cd, well, try not to be in melee range

Nerf Guardian, nerf mesmer, nerf ele, nerf reve, nerf ranger, nerf necro, nerf warrior, nerf thief, nerf engie NERF EM ALLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most important is to nerf that kitten ed Guardian traps, which ar? easy avoidable but still nerf em!!!

Who honnestly takes hudge damage with traps ?
I really don’t get how you can be killed with traps.

Tigergate.3520:

Just gotta say, I’ve played quite a bit of pvp and I noticed that it’s almost impossible to dodge the Dragonhunters elite skill Dragon’s maw. It ruins pvp and the fun in the game. Personally I hate the trap guard and all the new condi bunker builds out there since they are just faceroll.

DH traps are so op that near no team is using the class in the pro leagues

Aaaah the tears, so salty.

Another Thief QQing about how OP Guardians are…

Yall QQ’d during the Zerk Power meta era…
Yall QQ’d during the Bunker Guard meta…
Yall QQ’d during the Burn Guard meta…

70% of all Guard thread complaints come from Thieves…

Yes, we counter you Thieves pretty hard now, compared to any other meta era, but i’d imagine you people would be used to it by now.

Honestly, a trap nerf might be a good thing for guardians at the moment.

They’re so powerful vs other glass cannons that the meta shifted to tanky builds, which as it so happened, also counter guardian in general.

Eponet.4829:

Honestly, a trap nerf might be a good thing for guardians at the moment.

They’re so powerful vs other glass cannons that the meta shifted to tanky builds, which as it so happened, also counter guardian in general.

False. The meta moved towards bruiser builds because they can tank while outpace in sustained dps most of the burst builds. Traps are almos useless in high level of play due they are predictable, easy to evade and fill slots for other utilities so once they are used the DH remains exposed and vulnerable.

Currently, meditrap is the most solid, well rounded, DH build, and is used broadly in random matches due they are easy to play. But even then, DH are outside the meta and serious matches because they are also SO EASY TO OUTPLAY.

Berserker specs are actually doomed due current iterations of non-DH/guardian classes. Also, the amount of people in random matches which keep entering in cqc against DH even after knowning which is going to happen is outstanding: makes me to belive that no matter the meta, those people will be always prone to lose the matches and to whine whatever the scene is.

Buran.3796:

Eponet.4829:

Honestly, a trap nerf might be a good thing for guardians at the moment.

They’re so powerful vs other glass cannons that the meta shifted to tanky builds, which as it so happened, also counter guardian in general.

False. The meta moved towards bruiser builds because they can tank while outpace in sustained dps most of the burst builds. Traps are almos useless in high level of play due they are predictable, easy to evade and fill slots for other utilities so once they are used the DH remains exposed and vulnerable.

Currently, meditrap is the most solid, well rounded, DH build, and is used broadly in random matches due they are easy to play. But even then, DH are outside the meta and serious matches because they are also SO EASY TO OUTPLAY.

Berserker specs are actually doomed due current iterations of non-DH/guardian classes. Also, the amount of people in random matches which keep entering in cqc against DH even after knowning which is going to happen is outstanding: makes me to belive that no matter the meta, those people will be always prone to lose the matches and to whine whatever the scene is.

You’re definitely right about how easy it is to outplay a DH compared to Mesmer, Rev or Scrapper but I wouldn’t say we’re not a viable 5th pick.

We’ll likely always lose to a rev but that’s the case for everyone. However niche, DH can 1v1 any Rev if we preplace traps near or on point before hand. Out 5th pick may have been taken by some other bunker classes but that’s only because teams are running double ele/mesmer/rev. This popular team comp leaves very little room for anyone.

It’s not that we’re no longer viable, we’re just not popular in this “capture a point first” poor meta.

Saiyan.1704:

Buran.3796:

Eponet.4829:

Honestly, a trap nerf might be a good thing for guardians at the moment.

They’re so powerful vs other glass cannons that the meta shifted to tanky builds, which as it so happened, also counter guardian in general.

False. The meta moved towards bruiser builds because they can tank while outpace in sustained dps most of the burst builds. Traps are almos useless in high level of play due they are predictable, easy to evade and fill slots for other utilities so once they are used the DH remains exposed and vulnerable.

Currently, meditrap is the most solid, well rounded, DH build, and is used broadly in random matches due they are easy to play. But even then, DH are outside the meta and serious matches because they are also SO EASY TO OUTPLAY.

Berserker specs are actually doomed due current iterations of non-DH/guardian classes. Also, the amount of people in random matches which keep entering in cqc against DH even after knowning which is going to happen is outstanding: makes me to belive that no matter the meta, those people will be always prone to lose the matches and to whine whatever the scene is.

You’re definitely right about how easy it is to outplay a DH compared to Mesmer, Rev or Scrapper but I wouldn’t say we’re not a viable 5th pick.

We’ll likely always lose to a rev but that’s the case for everyone. However niche, DH can 1v1 any Rev if we preplace traps near or on point before hand. Out 5th pick may have been taken by some other bunker classes but that’s only because teams are running double ele/mesmer/rev. This popular team comp leaves very little room for anyone.

It’s not that we’re no longer viable, we’re just not popular in this “capture a point first” poor meta.

I play DH and Rev in PvP and i play Power rev with Hammer and its soooooo easy to trigger traps without getting hurt.

If i see a DH standing on point i simply have to use Hammer 3 skill which leaps into the area where i think traps are, triggers them and then it teleports me back out, Boom traps wasted.

Honestly, traps are cheesy and easy to avoid. They’re good for killing newbies and the unaware, and that’s about it.

But most of what goes on with Guardian builds is cheesy. They’re a cheddar class.

I saw someone mention thieves, and in reference to that when it comes to DH, I would honestly just tackle them from ranged to draw them away from their traps. Most all of them that I’ve seen so far are awful when it comes to positional awareness, so it’s easy to trick one into kittening after you to try to get into attack range, where they’ll promptly dump traps again and then start to cry when you shadow step away and pop them with a couple of ranged attacks.

I love trap DH players. It’s like playing keep-away with toddlers.

Mercurias.1826:

Honestly, traps are cheesy and easy to avoid. They’re good for killing newbies and the unaware, and that’s about it.

But most of what goes on with Guardian builds is cheesy. They’re a cheddar class.

I saw someone mention thieves, and in reference to that when it comes to DH, I would honestly just tackle them from ranged to draw them away from their traps. Most all of them that I’ve seen so far are awful when it comes to positional awareness, so it’s easy to trick one into kittening after you to try to get into attack range, where they’ll promptly dump traps again and then start to cry when you shadow step away and pop them with a couple of ranged attacks.

I love trap DH players. It’s like playing keep-away with toddlers.

Gosh, salty aint we? mesmers are ones I lost again more often but I don’t really talk about them in this manner. Looks like someone got their behind handed over to traps alot to build this much bitterness.

Here is My two cents on this topic my default illusion on mes will trigger the trap .Only one button pressed to set it off.Ya its realllly op lol.

The only way I see to ‘Nerf’ traps on guardian is removing the boons upon triggering, it’s a change but it won’t completely change the whole meta.

1. Traps arm too soon. It should take about two seconds after a trap is placed before it can trigger. They are not grenades. They are not active offensive tools, they are preemptive defensive tools.
2. Traps are placed too quick. Their fastest activation time should be 1 second, not half a second. Those that can pulse areas should use the “kneel and use something on the floor” animation locking the user in place, not a mere “drop something in the floor with one hand” animation, the one hand animation should be kept only for one-time single effect traps like thief traps.
3. There’s no downside to stacking them. Not only traps, but with all AoEss, there should be downside to stacking them in a single spot other than making it easier to avoid them all, since they can cover entire capture points.
4. Guardian trap visuals are bugged. Their effects won’t always appear, regardless of video settings.
5. Traps are not visible when seen. Only traps placed when no members of an enemy team can see them should be hidden from members of that enemy team. If you team mates see a character placing a trap, you should be able to see the trap too.
6. Traps are not revealed by AoE revealing skills if there are no other cloaked creatures and objects around using up that AoE’s targets, an AoE revealing skill should reveal a trap for any remaining target it could hit.

As a guard that has extensively played with and against traps in spvp and wvw roaming, I would say some or all of the following changes would do the best job of balancing out traps:

1. Decrease the trigger damage of Test of Faith. It is unblockable, and hits quite hard for an instant-cast skill. The vast majority of trap QQ is due to this trap alone. That being said, if a guard is skilled enough to get an opponent to cross the barrier multiple times, that guard should be rewarded.

1. a) Alternatively: Increase the damage taken when crossing the ring for Test of Faith, but add a 1/4s cast time to this skill.

2. Add an initial application of burn to one of the traps. Light’s Judgement and Dragon’s maw are good candidates.

3. Decrease the cooldown of Dragon’s maw by either 5 or 10 seconds. It’s a good skill, but doesn’t need to have such a high cool down. It might encourage more guardians to use this elite rather than RF.

3. a) Alternatively, consider keeping the cooldown as is, but turning Dragon’s Maw into a fire field (once triggered).

4. If a DH places a trap in plain sight of an opponent, there should be a small and very subtle red circle (similar to what you see when you trigger an enemy DH’s trap) to show that the DH just placed a trap. This would encourage trappers to actually set them up like traps rather than face-roll everything, and use traps as in-combat skills.

4. a) Alternatively, increase the visual noise of the trap-laying animation slightly. As is it is not terribly obvious when you are in the middle of combat.

5. Make Procession of Blades a whirl finisher. Speed up the whirling, but decrease the damage-per-strike.

6. Consider changing Dragon’s Maw to a trap that pulses damage and burning the longer you stay in it, rather than doing a lump sum of up-front damage. Buff the total damage of the trap so that staying in it the entire time would result in the opponent taking a bit more damage than how much it currently does. This would synergize a lot better with traits/burning builds.

7. Fragments of Faith: Wonderful trap, probably my favorite trap! Fan-girling aside, I think this trap could use a bit of work: Decrease the cooldown by 5 seconds, let the aegis fragments spread out a bit more (twice the radius of the trigger), and let the trap be a blast finisher when triggered.

These changes would encompass a greater -team dynamic of the trap. Also, this trap should be the ONLY instant-cast trap in my opinion.

Buran.3796:

Tigergate.3520:

Just gotta say, I’ve played quite a bit of pvp and I noticed that it’s almost impossible to dodge the Dragonhunters elite skill Dragon’s maw. It ruins pvp and the fun in the game. Personally I hate the trap guard and all the new condi bunker builds out there since they are just faceroll.

DH traps are so op that near no team is using the class in the pro leagues

There also soloq that want to play against skilled ppl and not a fail like some(!) guards now

Traps arent so hard to evade, that’s true, as well as they hit hard if u fall in. And if u are not so stupid to run directly on the point where guard stay u probably wont activate them. So what do u should do? Yea, u start ranged fight,and here u suffer. Why? Maybe cuz of up to 6-10k auto on longbow? Or because of combo like teleport and placing traps near u (not all teh classes\builds has same amount of stab with insta cast as well as break-stun things) Not fun at all when guard kills u in 3-5 shots,and not cuz he is skilled, he just spam 1-2 and traps. Guard isnt a war or thief,as a concept is a protector\bunker from where such a big dmg? It’s totaly okay if u kill me in few sec cuz u know how to play your class and stuffs.For sure I am not pro or even a very good player and still.

Nerf traps? What division are you playing, first? seriously if you say more than tier 1 than I go insane… you clearly new to DH, or never played it, just against it!

WinterFox.9756:

So what do u should do? Yea, u start ranged fight,and here u suffer. Why? Maybe cuz of up to 6-10k auto on longbow? Or because of combo like teleport and placing traps near u (not all teh classes\builds has same amount of stab with insta cast as well as break-stun things) Not fun at all when guard kills u in 3-5 shots,and not cuz he is skilled, he just spam 1-2 and traps. Guard isnt a war or thief,as a concept is a protector\bunker from where such a big dmg? It’s totaly okay if u kill me in few sec cuz u know how to play your class and stuffs.For sure I am not pro or even a very good player and still.

Using JI for placing traps exposes the Guardian and -also- depletes most of the skills; is a risky move and a one trick pony. Mesmers can nuke at ranged with a well placed Gravity Well, minus the risk. And talking about what Guardians are an what not, is laughlable that the current semi-viable build from DH -a plate armor class, not less- is doing focused burst/AoE damage, whereas cloth classes as Tempest and Chronomancer, or leather users as Scrappers and Druids are near unkillable in 1 vs 1.

So yeah, due Guardians went outplaced in his main roles (bunker/support) seems to me fair to be able to instakill bad players, because -and I say this as a plate class user- when you face good Revs/Tempest/Scrappers/Druids the only question is “how long I would be able to survive before getting beated?”.

Saiyan.1704:

Another Thief QQing about how OP Guardians are…

Yall QQ’d during the Zerk Power meta era…
Yall QQ’d during the Bunker Guard meta…
Yall QQ’d during the Burn Guard meta…

70% of all Guard thread complaints come from Thieves…

Yes, we counter you Thieves pretty hard now, compared to any other meta era, but i’d imagine you people would be used to it by now.

On usual builds I would say yes, It’s frustrating to play against a DH. Then we invented the p/p power + dash most stupid troll build ever but it works so greatly against DH !

I don’t think I have really ever had a problem with traps. I play ranger, guardian and thief. With daredevil you have so many dodges and evades that traps aren’t really an issue if you have even a slightest clue where they are. And as mentioned above, P/P + dash build is superb at annoying a DH.

Now that I think about it I can’t even remember when was the last time I was caught by a maw.

Of course some DHs blink to you and drop traps in melee. In this case the normal reaction is to dodge, and if you can react fast enough traps are nullified and DH has put himself in a vulnerable position and doesn’t have the ranged advantage anymore.

I think that the trongest part of traps is that if the enemy lets you stay in one spot long enough, you can drop traps and when enemy triggers them you have them already off cooldown and can drop them again (double traps twice the fun).

When you see a DH standing on a point you can’t just headlesly rush in, you have to prepare for the traps. Either you dodge roll to the point or send a minon first (ranger pet, necro minions, mesmer clones…). Or if you happen to be running a good ranged weapon don’t even go to the point, jus pew pew the guardian off point and dodge true shots, DH longbow damage is not super impressive without trueshot.

Or you can just run meta tempest and just roll over every DH you see. I dont’t really know what tempest does or how they work but I have never killed one with my DH.

I was once alone and saw 2 enemies running to our near poit, I got there first dropped traps and waited. It was 2 against one so I think they were a bit overconfident when they just walked into my traps. All I had to do was to use longbow 5, swap to GS and spin. DH is an awesome noob killer and a good solo q hero on lower levels.

The best way to learn how to play against a certain profession is to try playing it yourself.

The whole meta needs a redo. I would nerf Guardiabs Only if Rev, Mes, Ele etc are nerfed too. Remove this Bunker meta… then we can look at DH and see whats strong and what isn’t.

Agreed that if you know how a DH works you can out play it. I play DH and Rev in PvP and with the knowledge i gained playing them i can kill most average Revs using my DH and most average DH using my Rev. (granted im low tier but then again DH is great for farming casual players in low tiers).

Im constantly amazed at how many ambers/emeralds/Sapphires keep rushing headlong into my traps. I had stopped using Dragons Maw because i felt it was too easy to dodge. Then i switched back when i saw so many of my soloq team mates dying to enemy DH Dragons Maw.

Spartacus.3192:

(…)
Im constantly amazed at how many ambers/emeralds/Sapphires keep rushing headlong into my traps. I had stopped using Dragons Maw because i felt it was too easy to dodge. Then i switched back when i saw so many of my soloq team mates dying to enemy DH Dragons Maw.

People just want to rush spam buttons and win….. DH should be changed to SH ( Skritt Hunter)

I’m surprised this topic is still on going. Traps were fun to kill people when they weren’t used to it, now it can barely scratch any decent players, maybe some occasional newbies who are clueless enough.

something does need to change atleast the part where u cant see the wall trap and i keep getting knockdown when u cant see it at all

they need to take the daze off the trap or no cd reduction

I wouldn’t nerf absolutely anything in DH at this moment. They’re no good at this meta so nerfing them is just tragicomedy. Nerfing them because of pvp would also ruin them in pve where they’re still somewhat viable due to all those nice damage modifiers.

At this time, the meta’s biggest concern is what to do with rev and tempest stacking.

After Sapphire divisions, DHs have become liabilities in a team comp.

This: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Salt

DHs do need a nerf, but then again so does practically every other elite spec and arguably more than DH does.

Arcaedus.7290:

DHs do need a nerf, but then again so does practically every other elite spec and arguably more than DH does.

Other players would QQ because they would need effort to win or cannot play the more meta builds(wich are to strong compared with no meta builds)… how dare u sir saing players need effort to win…

most people here on gw2 play because classes are more stronger than others, high damage on dfensive stats as exemple…

Kicast.1459:

Who honnestly takes hudge damage with traps ?
I really don’t get how you can be killed with traps.

You walk onto an empty cap. BOOM!!! Instakill.
ITS A TRAP!!!

congratulations !

devs heard you man

dont forget to make another QQ thread on other class forum next

Meh…..its a never ending cycle. After balance patch, people will move to the new FOTM and QQ will begin again. I just wish they would split PVP/PVE so my mob killing traps dont get kittened up so much.

I’m curious since Rangers and Thieves have traps too.

Did people whine this much about those too, or are DH ones just that terrifying that people forget how to use skills and the dodge button when they get near one?

Bunker guard doesn’t work, burn guard doesn’t work, and now, apparently, DH will no longer work either.

Time to change classes.

Starbreaker.6507:

I’m curious since Rangers and Thieves have traps too.

Did people whine this much about those too, or are DH ones just that terrifying that people forget how to use skills and the dodge button when they get near one?

My understanding is that thief’s traps are terrible in general and Ranger’s traps are okay but they specialize in condition damage so therefore easier to mitigate mistakes. Although only one-trick pony guardians are going to use 5 traps, if someone does make a mistake and hit them the fight is over with little recourse.

Who the hell uses 5 traps? Using more than 3 already makes every guardian glass-cannon even with solder runes….

But I get your point.

(To be honest I don’t think they will drastically nerf the trap damage…)

EDIT: WTF is Solder rune? … yeah, the English is stronk with this one…

Superior Rune of the Solder: 175 toughness, 100 healing power, +10 % expertise , if you get Burn you Transform into Quicksilver mode (20 sec CD)

Sorry

OP was vindicated, you all gonna keep talking trash to him?

I presume you’re not braindead, so i’m just gonna assume you’re joking with the use of “vindicated” here.

Tigergate.3520:

Just gotta say, I’ve played quite a bit of pvp and I noticed that it’s almost impossible to dodge the Dragonhunters elite skill Dragon’s maw. It ruins pvp and the fun in the game. Personally I hate the trap guard and all the new condi bunker builds out there since they are just faceroll.

kitten I was salty back then. It’s me again if anyone sees this thread. I must have written this and forgot about it since I don’t remember it at all. Anyway to reply to myself, it’s not impossible to dodge a trap and as people have pointed out, almost no good guards rely on using traps anymore. To answer others, I haven’t played guardian myself since 2013 so my knowledge of the class is extremely limited. I also played pvp in rank amber to ruby, so I almost always encountered troll people who were way better than their current placed divisions. Also, bunker wasn’t faceroll, no build that people actually use is faceroll, it just depends on how good the player is. I was quite a bad thief and switched to rev for more sustain, happy to notice it’s getting kitty littered on like nothing from this world at the moment.

This is just a troll ,thread full of nonsense ,just if someone got his kitten woop by this character means nerf just get gud find a way to win or befriend an enemy .

Really should have made a new thread instead of necroing this. It’s akin to click-bait at this point lol.

Kronicle.4652:

Aaaah the tears, so salty.

lol yes.
Indeed traps are pain in the ….. but only when comes form 4 guardians at once.
They have to realise that class stacking is the problem not traps.
I’ve seen a team with 4 necros and died at 600 range…i didn’t even get close to them …
Same happens to 3-5 eles, 3-5 guards, 3-5 rangers and list goes on…

Seteruss.4058:

Kronicle.4652:

Aaaah the tears, so salty.

lol yes.
Indeed traps are pain in the ….. but only when comes form 4 guardians at once.
They have to realise that class stacking is the problem not traps.
I’ve seen a team with 4 necros and died at 600 range…i didn’t even get close to them …
Same happens to 3-5 eles, 3-5 guards, 3-5 rangers and list goes on…

And a DH needs to be super squishy to achieve the top notch damage output lvl on the 3 traps.. well only one trap does super duper damage and isnt instant…. that trap even does hurt targets when i use nomads :S….
When players realize that F3 isnt that good and its easy to counter even with stability on….

Players are way to much used to be carried by the awfull game balance when some builds apears to compete with their gimmick they put in check their skills and start QQ for nerfs…. as if only the other classes have way to much damage and aoe spam, game has to much aoe spam that even pvp esl is awfull/boring to watch as example.

Should DH players start doing the same to every builds that reqs easilly a DH, or have skills that counters DH’s???

Aeolus.3615:

Seteruss.4058:

Kronicle.4652:

Aaaah the tears, so salty.

lol yes.
Indeed traps are pain in the ….. but only when comes form 4 guardians at once.
They have to realise that class stacking is the problem not traps.
I’ve seen a team with 4 necros and died at 600 range…i didn’t even get close to them …
Same happens to 3-5 eles, 3-5 guards, 3-5 rangers and list goes on…

And a DH needs to be super squishy to achieve the top notch damage output lvl on the 3 traps.. well only one trap does super duper damage and isnt instant…. that trap even does hurt targets when i use nomads :S….
When players realize that F3 isnt that good and its easy to counter even with stability on….

Players are way to much used to be carried by the awfull game balance when some builds apears to compete with their gimmick they put in check their skills and start QQ for nerfs…. as if only the other classes have way to much damage and aoe spam, game has to much aoe spam that even pvp esl is awfull/boring to watch as example.

Should DH players start doing the same to every builds that reqs easilly a DH, or have skills that counters DH’s???

I really never get any more traps than progression of blades and use it only as aoe dmg in melee range. Guardian have so many good abilities to choose that i ‘m feeling poor to use only 3 traps and nothing more.Still need to be squishy to get the propper output. That been said i feel a little embarassing to use my guardian like that cause of poor gamplay style and ’’all traps in your face" style. As a player i’m just casual in pvp, and just run my dailies so i really don’t bother so much.
But those balance patches cause of QQ are phenomenal. I’m in game only 1 year and i saw classes to go up and down because Anet lucks the ability to split pve from pvp and that’s true, but is a same old story as i realise, so no need to question it again and again..