Need help on this build of mine

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

(edited by Elphie.9708)

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Could somebody help me on this or guide me any changes I need to do? Thanks in advance for any help you could give ….

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

First advise, check the faq for suggestion on builds.

Second, the build you have there isnt dps and its not support. Its a build made for personal safety and tanking imo.

Each and every build should be optimised based on what weapons you use and what type of gameplay you prefer.

If you put more than 10 points in honor you should go all the way since the best grup support in honor is pure of voice and especially if you are into shouts.

Skip radiance or go at least 25 points deep. The amount of support is non existent and the major dps contributor isnt crit chance, its the 25 point damage multiplier.

If i where into support (which i am) and still want decent dps in pve i would trait 0/25/10/30/5, 10/25/0/30/5, 0/25/10/10/25 or even better 10/25/0/10/25.

Traits to consider in a dps/support build for pve.
Fiery wrath (DPS)
Radiant Power (DPS)
Strength in number (Support, 5-7% damage reduction on the entire team)
Mace of justice (DPS and Support if you run a mace build)
Superior aria (Support)
Empowering might (approx 5% dps increase for the ones that stay really close to you)
2h mastery (approx 5% dps increase on gs, close to useless on all other weapons)
Symbolsimprovements (size increases dps on moving target and duration on stationary targets and ofc increased support, mace and hammer benefits greatly from these two traits but i wouldnt trait both at the same time.)
Elusive power (sounds good on paper but it only increases the dps when you dodge and when you dodge the dps is reduced, Only really helpfull when bursting in pvp/wvw and with the hammer with feated 2h mastery.
Pure of voice (Support and a great one, personally i dont think its worth 30 points to get one really good trait.)
Virtues (just pick and choose bit dont forget power of the virtuous which adds a multiplicator in damage for each boon you have, There is no issues having 4 boons running when playing solo and in a group you should have 6-8 all the time.)
Unscathed contender (dps, pretty nice for some content and scepter gameplay.

Maybe this would nice for you 10/0/0/30/30 great support and can do decent damage with the proper gear. If you have issues surviving add in a couple of magi to maintain crit chance and get more heals from dodging.

EDIT with scepter i might consider 30 points in zeal to get as many multiplicators as possible. 10% on burning foes, 10% on the scepeter and 5% on gs and heals on every hit.

Could be really fun tbh. 30/30/0/0/10, which would yield 50% damage increase on the scepter when having aegis up.

(edited by Brutaly.6257)

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Hi Brutaly first thanks for all the suggestion let me digest it and try to use test what you mentioned. Again I do appreciate your time teaching newbee like me

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

Np, pve isnt my forte though but unfortunately the pve centric crowd seems to be asleep. Speed clearing seems to be a tiring activity.

Hopefully they come to aid later on.

EDIT add in sigil of force and ofc content specific food and you have 15% extra damage which would end up with 65% on scepter with aegis and with a mix of valk/berserker you would have about 2300 base power.

(edited by Brutaly.6257)

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

30/30/0/0/10 How do I allocate this on my Traits I get the Zeal but which one should I use for 30 in Radiance and 10 for Virtues. Also this will make me only around 12K in health is that too soft to be just one shot by Boss in Dungeon. Thanks again Brutaly.

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

30/30/0/0/10 How do I allocate this on my Traits I get the Zeal but which one should I use for 30 in Radiance and 10 for Virtues. Also this will make me only around 12K in health is that too soft to be just one shot by Boss in Dungeon. Thanks again Brutaly.

Right hand strength for the scepter and focus as OH and trait vuln on blinds.

If going that much on the offense i would have a mix of berserker and valkyrie gear but you will be very squishy and have lack of vigor for dodges. So yes, it almost demands max range and only scepter gameplay, which will hit like a truck though, but boring as hell..

Try 10/0/0/30/30 first, its much more sturdy and not as demanding and offers great support as well and ofc more fun which is what matters.

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

OK back to drawing board again and what should be the 30 for virtue here ?

(edited by Elphie.9708)

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Posted by: Kelnis.1829

Kelnis.1829

Actually a 0/15/30/20/5 build is very well rounded for pretty much any situation. DPS will be lower than a dedicated build, but you can do a fair amount of damage if you run with fullzerker+scholar runes. I would highly recommend changing honor’s 20 point talent to provide might on crit to the party as this will proc AH and boost the party’s damage slightly. This is assuming the others in the party are not providing any/much might.

Now, be aware, though, this is a jack of all trades setup. You will be mediocre compared to dedicated builds in either direction, however, if you change gear depending on need (Zerker+Scholar = Damage, Knights+Soldier = Anchor), you should be able to fill those roles successfully in a PvE environment. I have used this variation of build since launch as my all-purpose build.

For any new guardian’s I would recommend the 0/15/30/20/5 build as an entry level trait setup as the versatility and sustain helps to learn the ropes while learning dodge timing and what not. That said, I have since branched off from this to various builds, depending on the circumstances, but I have mostly focused on damage dealing builds as I enjoy the playstyle more.

Now, as far as “DPS/Support,” it is hard to play both and it be a 50/50 split. Typically, if you want to provide support you will want to run with Clerics armor+Boon Duration runes while trinkets are a mix of Knights or Cleric (Celestial can work too, in that situation, but that is currently an ongoing debate that we shouldn’t start here).

As DPS, you will want to get as close to full Berserker’s gear in every slot while using Scholar runes (Ruby orbs work as a cheap alternative, but the difference is noticable.)

As a support oriented Guardian, it can very greatly depending on group comp (or how willing you are to change traits situationally), but one of the most common trait builds you will see for a “support guardian,” especially when an Anchor is needed, will be some variation of 0/0/30/30/10 with AH/Pure of Voice, two shouts and wall of reflection.

As a DPS oriented Guardian our Sword/Scepter our best bests for single target in melee/ranged respectively. A 10/30/x/5/5 baseline is a good starting point while building for DPS. The remaining 20 trait points are divide among either personal survival traits or additional damaging traits.

I could ramble on, forever, but before I start going … more in depth. How/what sort of situations are you trying to prepare for? Strictly PvE Dungeons, Open world, Hybrid PvE/WvW, Strictly WvW, sPvP?

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Thanks I am trying to play PvE Dungeons and later want to explore WvW.

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Would you give me a good DPS that could somewhat support because of my shout that I could start playing with. I know I am asking a lot but it would be good if I have the traits and the weapons/gears that I need to achieve.

Would this work ..
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.3|c.1g.h1.f.0.0|b.0.0.d.1g.0|1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.cc.61|a2.u6ab.0.k28.a1|0.0|v.16.18.17.1i|e

(edited by Elphie.9708)

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Kelnis.1829

Kelnis.1829

I think Brazil has a good write up for what you’re trying to accomplish, his post can be found on here.

A quick run down of his build is essentially like this 0/30/0/30/10.

This frees up your armor slots to use offensive runes if you want to, or removes two conditions per shout if you don’t.

One thing you will want to get used to/become acclimated with is the use of Wall of Reflection. It is one of our most invaluable skills in PvE. Hence the selection of “Master of Consecrations” to reduce its CD/Increase the duration of it. If you are otherwise not seeing a lot of use out of it, you can switch it to something else like Unscathed Contender.

One issue with contender is the difficulty in maintaining a significant uptime. The damage bonus is only applied while Aegis is active on your character. It is surprising how easy it is for the buff to get used up, and it has a very high skill cap for use, especially in PvP.

I’d read up on that thread from Brazil, maybe try the traits out and see how you like them. The title of his thread is a bit of exaggeration in regards to being “perfect” but it sounds like a good place for you to start. My builds are much more experimental and less in line with accepted norms, so I wouldn’t have you start with any of my stuff.

Edit: One thing to note, if you’re not used to your guardian yet you really may want to start off with the 0/15/30/20/5 build we spoke about above. It is a very well rounded build for learning the ropes. The DPS oriented builds leave very little room for error and will take some practice to get used to. The low natural health pool on a guardian is unforgiving when it comes to being glass cannon.

(edited by Kelnis.1829)

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Thanks to both of you for having time to help me understand better the build I could experiment on my style of playing. Kudos guys …

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

Dont get me wrong, i am a strong advocate for AH builds in general and OP build was the first one i played with back in BWE and the build is solid but its not support and its not dps, its personal survival and tanking.

OP asks for a dps/support build and not even with scholars it can be called a dps build and 0/15/30/20/5 brings very little support, if none, a more dps centric build cant do.

As long as he hasnt got one single damage modifier in the build its just aint flying as a dps build.

If we do the math i think (at the office so i cant check my numbers) 10/25/x/x/x in full pvt will do just as much damage as a full berserker in 0/15/30/20/5.

If i recall correctly berserker has about 20% more damage in the stats compared to full pvt which is fully compensated by the 2 damage modifiers in zeal and radiance.

If he is in a team where they dont stack might properly they arent good enough to stay in 350 distance to get empowering might. And if he is in a team that can stack might empowering might will be a blocker for might stacks with longer duration, making the team blow cooldowns with no or little effect. The main reason to grab EM is to trigger AH.

Heals are the worst support in this game, damage prevention and passive mitigation are much better. hence why going deep in virtues for power of the virtues (boon duration and 4%-8% damage modifiers) is a much better choice compared to investing in honor. With 30 points in virtues he can use scholar runes and still have decent uptime on boons without gimping himself with monk and water.

Unfortunately there seem to be a misconception that healing is the only support when consecrations, shouts, aegis, virtues, etc in fact are much stronger tools if used properly.

So yes you can trait for support and dps at the same time as long as you stay away from valor and honor. The virtue line is a prime example where you have 24%-28% damage modifiers.

The guy asked for dps and support and suggesting clerics (even though i have nothing against them) isn’t what he asked for.

A 10/0/0/30/30 has just as high, or even higher, dps compared to 0/15/30/20/5 and brings more support to the team as long as they have the same gear. The 30 points in honor is for pure of voice/EM/superior aria and personal survivability.

Frankly if he has low interest in support (which 0/15/30/20/5 indicates) why not just roll 0/30/30/5/5, he hits much harder, extra heal/support thru merciful intervention (which is a burstheal for the team even though a bit glitchy) and two slots open for utilities. The difference in support is marginal but the difference in dps is substantial.

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Kelnis.1829

Kelnis.1829

You may want to skim my post again, the way I was intending to say it was simply juxtaposing the two different building styles for some context in the two very polar gearing strategies. There was no suggestion, or I would have indicated as such, it is simply providing some information for someone who seems very inexperienced with the class.

I am going to briefly cover the different trees and my observations of each tree independent of the others, without including build bias:

Zeal is a very limited tree. Going beyond 20 points is largely going to prove lackluster. Points spent in this tree should definitely be minimized at the moment. However, that said, 10 points in to this tree for Fiery Wrath will provide a very sturdy dps increase (100 power, 10% damage while burning, 10% additional condition duration.)

Radiance, as a tree, is mitigation/damage oriented. Blinds provided by VoJ are a valuable source of damage avoidance. The additional precision provides a stabilizing effect to your damage output as crit chance rises. This compounds exceptionally with Right-Handed Strength and Radiant Power. This tree is one of our most valuable trees overall.

Valor, while not apparently as effective as a tree with a proper damage multiplier, is comparable to a 8~10% (I do realize damage multipliers are multiplicative, this is merely a comparison) modifier when factoring in Retributive armor’s precision bonus and a full 30 points spent in the tree. The value of the crit damage is proportional to crit chance, but is a positive non-zero value even at base crit values. The supportive value of the tree is limited mostly to personal survivability.

Honor is a valuable tree for support and damage as it provides a 10% damage multiplier at 25, and Pure of Voice at 30. I would argue this is the most valuable tree at the moment for personal survival (health buffer from the vit/100% uptime on Vigor) while providing additional damage, and party support.

Virtues is a very solid tree, but it is not definitely not a proper dps tree. Unscathed, especially in your average dungeon/fractal run, will have 33~50% uptime even if you play as near perfect as possible. Not everything is telegraphed or dodgeable and Aegis will get popped at some point. This is compounded with the fact that Aegis’ block is the first to be consumed even if Focus #5/Shelter are active. Power of the Virtues is potent, but over the course of a dungeon you will probably tend towards an average of about a 5% increase. This is not, however, contesting the tree’s supportive nature. It provides some great synergy with its Boon Duration and various boosts to consecrations/virtues.

These are observations from a PvE perspective, of course, as things in the meta behave differently in sPvP/WvW.

Now given my rather long, pointless diatribe….

If you want to dps and are okay with providing support primarily through blinds and condition removal you will likely see the most consistent returns from a 10/30/0/30/0 build using sword or scepter with focus, and whatever off weapon you prefer. The 20 point in honor can be changed to EM/2handed mastery, or something else entirely if aren’t make good use of either of those traits. The 10 points in zeal is modular, you can put those in Virtues if you want the extra boon duration/Consecration Reduction/Unscathed Contender. You can put them in to Valor as well, but you will get more for your investment in Zeal/Virtues.

Quick question, Brutaly, do you know off the top of your head if the 1% bonus from the 25 point trait in virtues behave multiplicatively with one another? I haven’t tested it, but that has the potential to increase its value very slightly.

Edit: I a word, and some grammar!

(edited by Kelnis.1829)

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

do you know off the top of your head if the 1% bonus from the 25 point trait in virtues behave multiplicatively with one another?

I have no hard evidence thakittens multiplicative but since the other oneĀ“s are why shouldn’t this one be multiplicative? Hence its a 8% damage boost in a support build in a coordinated team where you can stack boons and 4-6% solo with pure of voice and shouts. Virtues offer more dps than valor and honor and tons of support. Which is my point, you can infact combine really good multiplicative traits and still be extremely support heavy.

10/0/0/30/30 being such a build and if you grab zerkers with 2*monk, 2*water and 2 ruby orbs its decent dps compared to 0/15/30/20/5 and tons of more support.

Brazil build isnt s asupport build btw, its a dps setup with a 3k hp cushion specialized to keep conditions off the team so they can trigger scholars to a higher degree.

Unscathed contender is valid in pve and as long as you play scepter. Especially when running shouts so you can reapply it with retreat, virtues and ofc with the elite.

And if you dont want UC why not go for longer lasting consecrations and trigger combofields which makes EM looks really bad.

if anything elusive power in honor is maybe the biggest “scam” atm, people refering to it as its a 10% damage boost but its not, infact in order to have 100% uptime you need to dodge every 5s. Make clip ans see what the effective uptime is, its ridicoulus low and the better you are at positioning the lower it becomes.

Going into honor for EM, elusive power or any other trait and claim its support or dps is just bad imo, the gain is marginal, PoV being the exception. Honor is a health sponge and PoV is the only support offered when playing with GS/Scepter.

(edited by Brutaly.6257)

Need help on this build of mine

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Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Really appreciate both of you as I am learning good stuff from both of you. Would you please try to comment on this build and what changes needs to be done. One question also if I have already +5 crits on my sword could I also put 5 crits on my focus so my hand would be 10 crits on adds alone thanks again.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h2|b.1g.h2.e.1g.h1|1g.be.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1c.61|0.f0.u64b.k29.5|0.0|w.18.11.17.1i|e

(edited by Elphie.9708)

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Really appreciate both of you as I am learning good stuff from both of you. Would you please try to comment on this build and what changes needs to be done. One question also if I have already +5 crits on my sword could I also put 5 crits on my focus so my hand would be 10 crits on adds alone thanks again.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h2|b.1g.h2.e.1g.h1|1g.be.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1c.61|0.f0.u64b.k29.5|0.0|w.18.11.17.1i|e

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

My advice, test them, it is like 1 silver to swap traits.

Need help on this build of mine

in Guardian

Posted by: Elphie.9708

Elphie.9708

Hi Brutaly it is good but it needs to have perfect timing so most of the time I could really kill but as my timing is bad I sometimes use my tennis racket to get away from being one shotted hahahaha thanx as always now I am porr after buying complte zerg gear