Guild Wars 2

Altruistic Healing is almost on every guardian build, it simply heals way to much and heals for more then most ‘6’ skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciful_Intervention is also bugged and healing for three times, so not only do the guardians get a second healing skill, they have an almost full heal get out of jail free card.

Add an internal cool-down of 1 second to Altruistic Healing and increase the healing slightly to balance it please, 5 guardians with AH/Might on Crit builds can pretty much never die, even with 40 people beating on them. (as seen in videos.)

When every tree is 0/0/30/0/0 you know something is wrong with the tree, it offers high damage, high survivability, high sustain all in one package. I also think the 30% Critical Damage should be traded with the Virtues tree.

0/0/30/30/0 should not have the high damage it currently has… Its kind of ridiculous actually.

You know, the 1s cooldown is already active in the might component of the build you mention. In PvE, most good players have moved away from AH a long time ago, since its damage output is far from optimal. As for WvW, if 40 people can’t kill 5 AH guards, I’m really impressed at the incompetence of the 40.

CptAurellian.9537:

You know, the 1s cooldown is already active in the might component of the build you mention. In PvE, most good players have moved away from AH a long time ago, since its damage output is far from optimal. As for WvW, if 40 people can’t kill 5 AH guards, I’m really impressed at the incompetence of the 40.

Hey, people have been nerfed before, its just that AH can surpass the healing of most healing skills.

69 × 2 × 5 = 690 hps on a non healing skill.

Way overpowered for a trait. (this isn’t counting all the other healing goodies they get!)

They can also proc it multiple times on multiple stacks, and proc it every 5 seconds on vigor. Its actually kind of hilarious.

Daecollo.9578:

Altruistic Healing is almost on every guardian build, it simply heals way to much and heals for more then most ‘6’ skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciful_Intervention is also bugged and healing for three times, so not only do the guardians get a second healing skill, they have an almost full heal get out of jail free card.

Add an internal cool-down of 1 second to Altruistic Healing and increase the healing slightly to balance it please, 5 guardians with AH/Might on Crit builds can pretty much never die, even with 40 people beating on them. (as seen in videos.)

When every tree is 0/0/30/0/0 you know something is wrong with the tree, it offers high damage, high survivability, high sustain all in one package. I also think the 30% Critical Damage should be traded with the Virtues tree.

0/0/30/30/0 should not have the high damage it currently has… Its kind of ridiculous actually.

Thanks for posting this in early December 2012. Oh wait, it is July 2013 and AH was already nerfed.

Focus fire wins fights. Very few if any builds can survive indefinitely 3v1, much less 4v1 or 5v1. Learn to coordinate.

Altruistic Healing is not overpowered just because a lot of people use it. It’s a good trait, but the maximum HP/s isn’t much more than Monk’s Focus unless you’re in a full party of 5, and then it’s only about 40-50% better if I recall correctly from when I was working out healing months and months ago. Monk’s Focus is leagues better solo. You realize it heals for 2k without any healing power, and you can pop it every 16 seconds with Smite Condition.

Anyhow, it’s good but not that good. They didn’t win because they were AH specced, those 5 guardians win because they’re all sustain specced and the damage is too distributed.

Thank you for the replies. I wanted to know exactly how your class felt about nerfing such and I needed good replies to defend my class against your class.

I actually think AH is fine as is, however I am saying it can be ridiculous when paired right with traits and skills.

the reason they are not dying is protection/stability, not altruistic healing. l2 strip boons.

foofad.5162:

Altruistic Healing is not overpowered just because a lot of people use it.

This indicates that other traits need to be buffed, actually. When a particular trait is a “go to” trait for just about every build, that means that it’s either OP (which it isn’t in this case) or other traits aren’t good enough to make them viable options over it. Looking over the options, Alt Healing is just a better trait to take. There’s no reason to select the others over it. They just aren’t good enough. Gimping the class isn’t the right answer. It’s a Mob response.
“Vinnie, I don’t like how Altrusitic Healing is so good over these other traits. Go break it’s kneecaps so the other traits don’t look so crap by comparison.”
“Right, boss.”

Daecollo.9578:

… 5 guardians with AH/Might on Crit builds can pretty much never die, even with 40 people beating on them. (as seen in videos.)

Wow, that’s quite the critical mass of people that have no clue what they are doing.

Anyways, I never really got the hype on AH. It’s OK in some cases. It’s certainly not in every build for every kind of content. I think the more experienced Guardians already figured this out. I don’t think it’s what’s ‘wrong’ with Valour.

go ahead I stopped using it.

Actually I might run 0/0/30/30/10 in wvw someday with lemongrass food and pick on anyone I see in omnomnomberry ghost or pie

Daecollo.9578:

Thank you for the replies. I wanted to know exactly how your class felt about nerfing such and I needed good replies to defend my class against your class.

I actually think AH is fine as is, however I am saying it can be ridiculous when paired right with traits and skills.

Wat.

/mindkitten

AndrewSX.3794:

Wat.

/mindkitten

Yeah, I don’t know either. I just ignored it.

wait.. so what’s going on now?

This thread and OP in particular has more flip-flops than a house of pancakes.

Daecollo.9578:

Thank you for the replies. I wanted to know exactly how your class felt about nerfing such and I needed good replies to defend my class against your class.

I actually think AH is fine as is, however I am saying it can be ridiculous when paired right with traits and skills.

Actually I posted the math for you in the warrior forum. You are wrong, that is all. Let’s take it back there instead of here.

Well for the short period of time i am playing with my guardian(and loving it) AH is good and thats what gives the survival for the 13k hp i have … You cant complain for something like it … Eles can heal even more with their blasts in the water field and noone is qqing about it xD

I run without any point in valor and in many cases I can stand much longer than my guardian friend, who have AH-dps build…

as for me only problem is that AH is… strongly addictive.
many folks that once start to run with it just cannot survive not a second without that trait

Actually, in high-end groups AH is not needed due to waterfields. Which are arbitrarily much more overpowered..

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Actually, in high-end groups AH is not needed due to waterfields. Which are arbitrarily much more overpowered..

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

highly dissagre sir.
Well played and well built in solo-roaming guardian without AH is capable to survive more. Don’t forget, that AH can make it best only when You have at least 5 allies in reach of Your boons….

Oh this guy again.

The OP is a troll, crusading all the non-warrior forums, moaning about how OP everything that isn’t a warrior is. His rants have included; Lemongrass, bear pets, the new nerfed pet leash range, melee rangers, ele’s in any form at all, condition mitigation, and warriors don’t do enough damage.

Essentially, if he’s posted it, there’s no real reason to acknowledge it. In his little trolly mind, he just scored a hit against the Guardian class.

Oh, he’s the Lemongrass guy. That explains it.

Lemongrass? Can you provide a link? I’m always looking for amusing stuff

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

@ the OP, You do realize that you cant take AH and MF which is required for 3 heals on MI right? And seriously you are going to compare it based on 5 guardians in a group? You realize that ANYTHING in a group of 5 is extremely strong? Your issue isn’t with AH, its with the fact that guardians have amazing group support, and when you stick 5 of them together they just magnify it to crazy amounts, It isn’t the AH being thrown around, but the almost perma of every buff. But the same goes for any class, such as Zerker warriors with damage. One could easily complain that their damage is stupid high when you have 5 of them beating on you at once.

You cannot expect an actual discussion regarding something when you take it to extreme circumstances, and exclude all other factors.

Wukunlin.8461:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

Yes, healing signet right now out heals vor+ah if you are under 4 boons per second. If you can get up to applying 5 boons per second + the passive from vor will give you as much healing as healing signet gives passively.

Right now healing signet gives a passive 392 or so health per second with no healing power.

In fact the warrior has a great amount of passive healing. Right now yes they have the best sustain in the game. Aside from that one guy that claimed that elementalist could get higher IF they get a full rotation, are traited, and use everything they can just to heal, vs a warrior just sitting there passively healing. If you toss in things like adrenal health, and the healing power from traits though it’s different again.

stale.9785:

The OP is a troll, crusading all the non-warrior forums, moaning about how OP everything that isn’t a warrior is. His rants have included; Lemongrass, bear pets, the new nerfed pet leash range, melee rangers, ele’s in any form at all, condition mitigation, and warriors don’t do enough damage.

Essentially, if he’s posted it, there’s no real reason to acknowledge it. In his little trolly mind, he just scored a hit against the Guardian class.

Ah, lemongrass. The life of the ones that aren’t so good at this game is an unfortunate one, I guess. There’s something wrong with everyone else, except oneself.

CptAurellian.9537:

Lemongrass? Can you provide a link? I’m always looking for amusing stuff

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first

This is like the third or fourth such thread. Apparently, lemongrass food can, when combined with a ridiculous set of traits, equipment, and runes, pretty much negate condition damage. Of course, you have to ignore the facts that
1) no sane person would ever do this,
2) regular damage > condi,
3) such a build is useless for anything else.

And i say this as someone who is right now working on a condition damage mesmer; just hit 78 yesterday, time to start getting carrion exotics and grinding Twilight Arbor path 1. And stocking up lots of veggie pizza.

You know how some trolls can at least pretend to make sense? S/he is not one of them.

We don’t need nerfs, we need buffs! 25k HP is good for me.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Wukunlin.8461:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

Yes, healing signet right now out heals vor+ah if you are under 4 boons per second. If you can get up to applying 5 boons per second + the passive from vor will give you as much healing as healing signet gives passively.

Right now healing signet gives a passive 392 or so health per second with no healing power.

Guardian’s don’t get a heal skill, right? LOL @ comparing heal skill to no heal skill.

Naranek.3467:

CptAurellian.9537:

Lemongrass? Can you provide a link? I’m always looking for amusing stuff

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first

This is like the third or fourth such thread. Apparently, lemongrass food can, when combined with a ridiculous set of traits, equipment, and runes, pretty much negate condition damage. Of course, you have to ignore the facts that
1) no sane person would ever do this,
2) regular damage > condi,
3) such a build is useless for anything else.

And i say this as someone who is right now working on a condition damage mesmer; just hit 78 yesterday, time to start getting carrion exotics and grinding Twilight Arbor path 1. And stocking up lots of veggie pizza.

You know how some trolls can at least pretend to make sense? S/he is not one of them.

65% duration reduction takes no traits. Just runes + food. You’re nuts if you don’t think that it, in addition to 98% reduction to immobilize, chill, and cripple with just a 10 point standard trait investment, isn’t broken. I can tell you’re clueless when you say “no sane person would ever do this” while the price of the runes skyrockets and it’s the standard warrior build for WvW.

The problem isn’t Lemongrass btw, it’s the incompetently designed mechanics that give additive instead of multiplicative stacking of duration.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

To be honest, the Warrior burst heal is still not great, though I did like the recent patch. IME, my Guardian will always outlast my Warrior because she has lower natural vitality, and better access to burst heals/defensive mechanisms. I like passive Warrior Regen, but it can only go so far (plus not all builds will have maximum passive regeneration.) Even my Ranger has better sustain than my Warrior, to be honest with you. So, I do respect your opinion, but IME, a Warrior’s sustain is not too hot at all-especially vs a Guardian’s ample bag of safety tricks (I believe it is by design, though, so I am not calling for nerfs/buffs for either Profession.)

I’ve tried AH builds with and without Empowering Allies. The self-heal difference is so big, it’s nasty. I try to avoid using it, unless I know that my guild will be facing a huuuuugeeee zerg.

I actually don’t mind if the trait gets deprecated.

Naranek.3467:

1) no sane person would ever do this,
2) regular damage > condi,
3) such a build is useless for anything else.

1) Do you WvW? I understand that it is useless in PvE most of the time. But seriously, who cares about balance in PvE?
2) Do you play a Guardian? Isn’t this a guardian subforum? It is way easier to neglect direct damage as a Guardian. Our HP pool is small, and it is small for a reason.
3) Do you WvW? My guild prefers our members to be tanky enough so they don’t die easily because it will rally the downed enemies. I think it’s a basic rule of running as a guild in WvW. Lemongrass really helps.

I run lemongrass food and Hoelbrak/Melandru on my Guardian in WvW. Do I love them? Heck yes. Will I understand if someday the food gets nerfed? Heck yes.

Y’all realize that -Condition Duration traits and items are supposed to be a direct counter to +Condition Duration traits and items, right? There is absolutely no reason why this shouldn’t be the case. It’s on a one-for-one basis, too. 20% Condition Duration reduction versus someone with 60% Condition Duration increase results in their conditions only lasting 40% longer.

And that’s A-Okay. If your conditions aren’t lasting long enough against these people, maybe you should consider investing in more duration.

xFireize.6318:

I’ve tried AH builds with and without Empowering Allies. The self-heal difference is so big, it’s nasty. I try to avoid using it, unless I know that my guild will be facing a huuuuugeeee zerg.

I actually don’t mind if the trait gets deprecated.

Naranek.3467:

1) no sane person would ever do this,
2) regular damage > condi,
3) such a build is useless for anything else.

1) Do you WvW? I understand that it is useless in PvE most of the time. But seriously, who cares about balance in PvE?
2) Do you play a Guardian? Isn’t this a guardian subforum? It is way easier to neglect direct damage as a Guardian. Our HP pool is small, and it is small for a reason.
3) Do you WvW? My guild prefers our members to be tanky enough so they don’t die easily because it will rally the downed enemies. I think it’s a basic rule of running as a guild in WvW. Lemongrass really helps.

I run lemongrass food and Hoelbrak/Melandru on my Guardian in WvW. Do I love them? Heck yes. Will I understand if someday the food gets nerfed? Heck yes.

I main an AH guardian and do WvW all the time, first with ranger, then with guard…

Yaki.9563:

Naranek.3467:

CptAurellian.9537:

Lemongrass? Can you provide a link? I’m always looking for amusing stuff

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first

This is like the third or fourth such thread. Apparently, lemongrass food can, when combined with a ridiculous set of traits, equipment, and runes, pretty much negate condition damage. Of course, you have to ignore the facts that
1) no sane person would ever do this,
2) regular damage > condi,
3) such a build is useless for anything else.

And i say this as someone who is right now working on a condition damage mesmer; just hit 78 yesterday, time to start getting carrion exotics and grinding Twilight Arbor path 1. And stocking up lots of veggie pizza.

You know how some trolls can at least pretend to make sense? S/he is not one of them.

65% duration reduction takes no traits. Just runes + food. You’re nuts if you don’t think that it, in addition to 98% reduction to immobilize, chill, and cripple with just a 10 point standard trait investment, isn’t broken. I can tell you’re clueless when you say “no sane person would ever do this” while the price of the runes skyrockets and it’s the standard warrior build for WvW.

The problem isn’t Lemongrass btw, it’s the incompetently designed mechanics that give additive instead of multiplicative stacking of duration.

And I can tell you’re a follower when you cite trends, especially from an unbalanced economy, to “prove” your point. So I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

foofad.5162:

Y’all realize that -Condition Duration traits and items are supposed to be a direct counter to +Condition Duration traits and items, right? There is absolutely no reason why this shouldn’t be the case. It’s on a one-for-one basis, too. 20% Condition Duration reduction versus someone with 60% Condition Duration increase results in their conditions only lasting 40% longer.

And that’s A-Okay. If your conditions aren’t lasting long enough against these people, maybe you should consider investing in more duration.

That is a good point. Lemongrass indeed is countered by veggie pizza. But I think 40% is a too much. If we compare it to trait points, that’s like 40 points. I don’t think there’s any other food that offers 40 point worth of trait attribute boost besides those two. On top of that, everyone in WvW can benefit from -40% condition duration equally, but not everyone can benefit from +40% condition duration because it depends on their build.

But hey let’s get back to the AH problem.

Yaki.9563:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Wukunlin.8461:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

Yes, healing signet right now out heals vor+ah if you are under 4 boons per second. If you can get up to applying 5 boons per second + the passive from vor will give you as much healing as healing signet gives passively.

Right now healing signet gives a passive 392 or so health per second with no healing power.

Guardian’s don’t get a heal skill, right? LOL @ comparing heal skill to no heal skill.

Actually I compared it against two of the guardians healing points. If you want I can compare adrenal health + signet passive with 3 from the guardian.

Shall we then assume 0 healing power for both, or is that not skewed enough for you? Maybe I should give the guardian 1000 healing power. That might help I suppose. So Guardian with 1000 healing power vs warrior with no healing power.

Passive regen from VoR with 1000 healing power 144 per second. AH with 1000 healing power is 79 per boon lets say 3 boons per second for 237, Signet of Resolve with 1000 hp heals for 9400/40 for 235 health per second. That brings the Guardian to 616 health per second.

Now a warrior with just healing signet and adrenal (I know you probably don’t want me to count that either, anything to skew the results though right) gives 392 and adrenal health gives 360 yes I’m going to assume full adrenaline. If you want me to rework it even more in your favor I will. 360/3 = 120. 120 + 392 = 512. Now we are ignoring that you have to have at least 150 healing power to even get it.

This means a guardian with 1000 healing power using their heal + getting passive from VoR + a constant 3 boons per second from AH heals for 104 more per second than a Warrior that is…doing nothing.

Now I know what you are thinking. You are thinking this still isn’t fair, I should have calculated this with the Guardian having 5000 healing power, and the warrior with 0 healing power and poisoned. Maybe next time.

In the mean time check my math, I haven’t slept in 3 days so It’s possible I’m off on something.