Guild Wars 2

Good to see no one at A net plays a guardian still.

Do you really think people will choose 3k health over goodies such as Pure of voice and Battle presence? 3k health means NOTHING in PVP as well as fractals where u get 2-3 shot regardless of health.

Honor has some of the best traits in the game and the new trait falls short to even some of the adept traits in honor, not to mention grandmaster. Please, change this trait, or make it adept and throw it somewhere in valor or even virtues, but as of right now it does NOT deserve to be grandmaster

Please don’t ask for power creep on guardian. They’re in a kittening awesome spot right now. If anything, ANet should try to bring every class other class to the same level as guardian.

Completely agree. Who’s bright idea was it to put a selfish trait like that in a supportive line anyway? The only guardians who would want this are damage-centric ones, and why would they ever go near honor?
I’m so jealous at what the elementalists are getting, that totally should’ve been on the Guardian. Heck, I’m even a little jealous at what the rangers are getting.

Not to mention this trait is just boring and unimaginative. I couldn’t come up with a more boring trait if I tried. I doubt ANet will change anything about it despite all the complaints.

guardian low hp give it +3k…. sounds legit to me in a pvp bunker build

Its positioned so you can take 30 Valor and 30 Honor and combine two very tanky grandmaster traits on your uber-bunker.

It’s really disturbing, but I think that for once, I have to agree with Hunter …

you can simply not use it, but sometimes i wish i had more durability since my guardian is celestial and i get massive damage when i have to listen to wvw commanders .
i will occasionally use it since im not full bunker.

3k life are pointless. U don´t need them to survive direct dmg. And “Pure voice” is superior against conditions especially in any team (dungeons/PvP/WvsW bigscale).

CptAurellian.9537:

It’s really disturbing, but I think that for once, I have to agree with Hunter …

Lol, seconded.

Norjena.5172:

3k life are pointless. U don´t need them to survive direct dmg. And “Pure voice” is superior against conditions especially in any team (dungeons/PvP/WvsW bigscale).

That’s exactly my thoughts on this. I’m trading an active trait that combats all forms of conditions, including non damage ones. For something that’s main use really just makes me take condition damage better.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I guess it could be situationally good, and it’s really just as easy as pressing a few buttons to swap it if that situation arises, esp with the new changes coming that let you do full respecs anywhere.

For me the only place I could maybe see this being useful is in the giant WvW zergs where at least for myself, I can lag out so bad I can’t activate abilities to make use of pure of voice or faster 2h CDs or whatever. It might be worth swapping that on when we have those moments where it seems like 100+ are in one room.

I just hope this wasn’t the one they were trying to impress us with, as if they all end up like this… nothing will be changing for my guardian haha.

I’m reserving my judgment until I know the entirety of the guardian changes. So does the extra 3k hp put guardian at medium tier hp level? Or is it close to top tier?

Jerus.4350:

I just hope this wasn’t the one they were trying to impress us with, as if they all end up like this… nothing will be changing for my guardian haha.

This is what I was thinking…

Fashion Mage.3712:

Completely agree. Who’s bright idea was it to put a selfish trait like that in a supportive line anyway? The only guardians who would want this are damage-centric ones, and why would they ever go near honor?
I’m so jealous at what the elementalists are getting, that totally should’ve been on the Guardian. Heck, I’m even a little jealous at what the rangers are getting.

Not to mention this trait is just boring and unimaginative. I couldn’t come up with a more boring trait if I tried. I doubt ANet will change anything about it despite all the complaints.

Um maybe on a guardian the ele trait might be ok. As for on the ele its absolute trash. Ele has no armor/health to stick near allies in spvp or wvw. Staff only has 2 heals which don’t heal for jack squat they are strictly used for others to blast heal themselves. DD ele has one heal on a long cooldown. Combining it with evasive arcana might be the only use the triat could possible have 10 second cooldown dodge small heal. Which will only make the heal ever so slightly stronger. Plus NONE of the healing effects the ele at all. IMO tied for thief as worst new trait announced. I would love to trade ya 3k more health on my ele would be nice.

This trait might be trash for most builds, but I’m waiting for them to release the other new Grandmaster traits before judging anything more

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Completely agree. Who’s bright idea was it to put a selfish trait like that in a supportive line anyway? The only guardians who would want this are damage-centric ones, and why would they ever go near honor?
I’m so jealous at what the elementalists are getting, that totally should’ve been on the Guardian. Heck, I’m even a little jealous at what the rangers are getting.

Not to mention this trait is just boring and unimaginative. I couldn’t come up with a more boring trait if I tried. I doubt ANet will change anything about it despite all the complaints.

Um maybe on a guardian the ele trait might be ok. As for on the ele its absolute trash. Ele has no armor/health to stick near allies in spvp or wvw. Staff only has 2 heals which don’t heal for jack squat they are strictly used for others to blast heal themselves. DD ele has one heal on a long cooldown. Combining it with evasive arcana might be the only use the triat could possible have 10 second cooldown dodge small heal. Which will only make the heal ever so slightly stronger. Plus NONE of the healing effects the ele at all. IMO tied for thief as worst new trait announced. I would love to trade ya 3k more health on my ele would be nice.

I agree. They should swap the two traits, but I think we all know that’ll never happen. The dev team doesn’t tend to act upon good suggestions. :p
I think that trait would only be good for eles if it also reduced the cooldown on healing abilities (not #6) so that you could reliably stay in water attunement and just spam healing spells. The dev team seem to think that eles are the best supportive healers in this game, but I’m pretty sure that title goes to guardians since eles are forced to switch attunements to be useful. But hey, maybe they have something else planned for eles.

It’s for people that don’t want to get blown up in a instant against condition damage, such as meditation builds. who run one to no shouts. PVE it’s trash, Spvp is meh, you’re bunker if you want to be comptative so PoV is better. WvW zerging Pure of voice, WvW solo roaming and dueling it has it’s uses.

Edit: AGAIN…Honor is not a support line, it’s a survival line. Support line is Virtues.

I disagree entirely and won’t even contribute to this thread because it will simply bump the topic. >< Doh!

I do disagree tho.

Lucentfir.7430:

Edit: AGAIN…Honor is not a support line, it’s a survival line. Support line is Virtues.

Uh…
larger symbols = more chance for boons on party
longer symbols = more boons for party
symbol healing = heals both you and allies
Selfless daring = heals for you and allies
EM = might for you and allies
Pure of voice = condition removal for you, and allies
Shout cooldown= more boons, for you and allies
Battle presence = does NOTHING for the guardian, but gives passive aoe healing to allies.

Notice how almost every single trait in the line helps everyone? Both virtues AND honor are support lines.

The survivability line is valor, with things like meditation healing, AH, Extra toughness, more aegis (minor traits) toughness with shield, Purity.

Every class is set up ~

Line 1. Damage
Line 2. Damage
Line 3. Survivability
Line 4. Support
Line 5. Class mechanics

The fact that they are not in alphabetical order makes it pretty obvious they are arranged structurally.

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

xFireize.6318:

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

PVE, guards survive with 10k health

You are failing to realize that this trait is competing with Pure of Voice and battle presence, the former being one of the best traits we have. No one in their right mind would take this new trait over the 2 old ones.

Bash.7291:

Lucentfir.7430:

Edit: AGAIN…Honor is not a support line, it’s a survival line. Support line is Virtues.

Uh…
larger symbols = more chance for boons on party
longer symbols = more boons for party
symbol healing = heals both you and allies
Selfless daring = heals for you and allies
EM = might for you and allies
Pure of voice = condition removal for you, and allies
Shout cooldown= more boons, for you and allies
Battle presence = does NOTHING for the guardian, but gives passive aoe healing to allies.

Notice how almost every single trait in the line helps everyone? Both virtues AND honor are support lines.

The survivability line is valor, with things like meditation healing, AH, Extra toughness, more aegis (minor traits) toughness with shield, Purity.

Supporting with boons is a guardian mechanic.

Vigorous Precision- Vigor on Crit(More dodges=More Survivablity)
Selfless Daring- Heal on dodge roll (Heals you and allies=more survivablity and support)
Larger Symbol/Longer Symbols- More support true but also has the benefit of covering more Area for pulse ticks, and a additional tick or two.
Symbol healing(Writ of the Merciful)- More Healing for symbol builds, to stack with Regen and VoR, still considered Survival and support.
EM- Support not going to argue.
Superior Aria- For shout builds, which are inherently support abilities by nature. Boons=more survival(Protection, Regen, Stability, Vigor)
Pure of Voice=Support, no matter how you look at it it’s a support grandmaster(with condition conversion for shout builds.)
Battle Presence- Support again, though passing along VoR passive to your allies which increases survivablity of allies.

If you want to get technical Honor is a Survival/Support line, with the most benefit for survival. You get Vitality, and healing power, which both boost survivablity. People who say the new trait doesn’t make sense don’t know it actually does make sense in the line, it’s just a plain/boring selfish trait .

Virtues is a pure support line.

Inspired Virtues- Boons to you and your allies when you activate a virtue (Might, Regen, Protection)
Virtue or Retribution-Retaliation on Virtue activation
Master of Consecrations- Cooldowns on consecrations, and they last longer.
Indomitable Courage-Stability on VoC use.
Absolute Resolution- Improved VoR, and removes 3 Conditions from allies around you
Shielded Mind- Stunbreak on VoC
Elite Focus- This one is a toss up to be honest(no one really uses this aside from a zergling guard maybe) more duration on Tomes, Tome of Wrath for Offensive Support, Tome of Courage for Defensive support.

Virtue Recharge- Boon Duration points.
^ That’s all about support.

Edit: Also Valor is a Survival line? It’s a DPS/Survival line.
Meditation- Selfish survival burst healing, with DPS attached to it (Smite Condition, JI)
AH- Selfish Boon Healing
Defender’s Flame- DPS through burning on blacks
Focused Mind- Improved burst capabilites with fury access
Retributive Armor- more precision=more crit procs

Hunter.4783:

xFireize.6318:

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

PVE, guards survive with 10k health

You are failing to realize that this trait is competing with Pure of Voice and battle presence, the former being one of the best traits we have. No one in their right mind would take this new trait over the 2 old ones.

Its not that Guardians can survive with 10k health, because that’s only if you’re good at the game, which not everyone is, so that 3k can come in handy, but because by going to Honor, you’re already being quite survivable, so you have to question why would you want to put on even more HP?

I mean, if this was a Radiance or a Zeal trait, I can kind of get the logic behind it but… Honor, just no.

Hunter.4783:

xFireize.6318:

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

PVE, guards survive with 10k health

You are failing to realize that this trait is competing with Pure of Voice and battle presence, the former being one of the best traits we have. No one in their right mind would take this new trait over the 2 old ones.

I agree that guardian can survive in PvE with 10k.; but in case you haven’t noticed, a lot of things are less viable in PvE; especially the defensive aspect of guardian. A lot of these things are very viable on WvW however.

The trait is not supposed to be for everyone. It’s not for my main shout build. Maybe it’s not for you either.

If I ran shout build, ofc I’d still pick PoV. If I ran Healing Point build and in a party, ofc I would take Battle Presence. But what if I didn’t run either but still would like to invest on VIT? If you are running a build that I mentioned above, but expect something to replace PoV or BP, that means you just want a way stronger trait.

The point of adding new traits is to open more diverse builds; not to create new traits that will replace the old ones.

300 VIT seems a reasonable amount to compete in grandmaster. What amount of VIT do you think it should be to deserve to be in grandmaster slot?

Nike.2631:

Every class is set up ~

Line 1. Damage
Line 2. Damage
Line 3. Survivability
Line 4. Support
Line 5. Class mechanics

The fact that they are not in alphabetical order makes it pretty obvious they are arranged structurally.

I thought it was just based on Power/precision/toughness/vit/class mechanic.

Engineer’s for example, have alot of their survivability in the vitality tree.

I will say, in high level fractals 49-50 I run 0/0/30/30/10.

Being able to add 300 more vitality will give me the flexibility of running full Zerker gear in the high level Fractals and still having plenty survivability.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Completely agree. Who’s bright idea was it to put a selfish trait like that in a supportive line anyway? The only guardians who would want this are damage-centric ones, and why would they ever go near honor?
I’m so jealous at what the elementalists are getting, that totally should’ve been on the Guardian. Heck, I’m even a little jealous at what the rangers are getting.

Not to mention this trait is just boring and unimaginative. I couldn’t come up with a more boring trait if I tried. I doubt ANet will change anything about it despite all the complaints.

The elementalists would be happy to swap with you.

300 Vitality is great for PvP and WvW.

This gives us scope to put more DPS into our builds.

Again, those whiners assume Guardian only have ONE build…
Not every Guardian that goes honer will always bring shouts….

There’s time when you need to bring alot of concentration, mediation, or spirit shield, and your bar would probably only have one to no shout at all, yet you still want that 3K HP from Honar, while being able to flexibly switch to a trait set with no shout related options. At the time like this, 3k HP for yourself suddenly seem pretty appealing, in combination with other trait selection that’s not related to shouts.

Seriously Guardian folks, you’re being spoiled for way too long…
I even saw someone saying Rangers’ new trash Grandmaster is better… That “someone” clearly never play any class other than Guardian at all.

Imagine if Anet add a Grandmaster trait that double the velocity of your scepter, what would you think?

Nike.2631:

Its positioned so you can take 30 Valor and 30 Honor and combine two very tanky grandmaster traits on your uber-bunker.

Yep. There will be some pretty nasty bunkers in PvP coming soon!

Lucentfir.7430:

Snip

All those virtue effects also benefit yourself, but as with honor their primary usage is in support. Not to mention you ironically mentioned more pure-support traits than survivability in honor, and -fyi- increasing the survivability of your allies is still support.
Saying honor is more about survivability is like saying healers in mmorpgs are more about survivability than support because they can heal themselves.

They should just combine Battle Pressence and this new 3k HP Grandmaster trait, really.

Aomine.5012:

Again, those whiners assume Guardian only have ONE build…
Not every Guardian that goes honer will always bring shouts….

I use a support build, and I don’t even use shouts (I use consecrations). I still think this new trait is dull, uninteresting, and highly inappropriate for honor.

Aomine.5012:

Seriously Guardian folks, you’re being spoiled for way too long…
I even saw someone saying Rangers’ new trash Grandmaster is better… That “someone” clearly never play any class other than Guardian at all.

Yeah, “spoiled” with all those skill description fixes you mean.
Clearly that “someone” isn’t allowed to have an opinion. Fyi I play an elementalist regularly as well, and I’ve also dabbled around with necromancers (not that I liked them). You shouldn’t jump to wild, ignorant conclusions like that.

Aomine.5012:

Imagine if Anet add a Grandmaster trait that double the velocity of your scepter, what would you think?

I would think “great! Still doesn’t fit in honor though”.

Also, that grammar.

I find this trait to be useless and uninteresting. Not to mention it has to compete with BP and PoV, good luck with that. If Anet is looking to address the low health pool, this isn’t the way to do it. I like having a low health pool, it promotes more careful play. I also believe you should be rewarded for such play. I think this one should be completely redone.

^That. I like surviving using my abilities instead of just being a meat shield.

Utter trash.

Raw hp is meaningless, especially after already putting 30 points into Honour and already having +3000 hp.

Real survivability comes from healing, condition removal, protection and dodging.

Ezrael.6859:

Utter trash.

Raw hp is meaningless, especially after already putting 30 points into Honour and already having +3000 hp.

Real survivability comes from healing, condition removal, protection and dodging.

you already have those atributes on guardian, well sort off, all i imagine this +health is like a HP buffer, this is like one of the known updates we know they might have other new traits at realease.

I imagine alot of guardians that use 30 pts on honor will have it.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I use a support build, and I don’t even use shouts (I use consecrations). I still think this new trait is dull, uninteresting, and highly inappropriate for honor.

I agree with you here, I really don’t see this Trait being useful in the Guardian’s support line. However saying that it’s uninteresting isn’t right, to me at least.
I feel like this trait being placed in Honor is ArenaNet’s way of opening up options for using Honor as a sort of self-sustain line through healing and high health pools. Though I guess the only way to see if this is the case would be to wait and see what else gets changed and added with the Feature Update.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Yeah, “spoiled” with all those skill description fixes you mean.
Clearly that “someone” isn’t allowed to have an opinion. Fyi I play an elementalist regularly as well, and I’ve also dabbled around with necromancers (not that I liked them). You shouldn’t jump to wild, ignorant conclusions like that.

Yes we are spoiled. Guardians have hardly been hit by the nerf hammer as severely as other classes have. Off the top of my head, outside of the vigor nerfs, I don’t recall anything being as drastically nerfed as some of the nerfs to the Elementalist and Necromancer.
Now, does this mean we’re always given the new, and shiny, toys all the time? No, because we honestly don’t need them. Outside of a needed overhaul to Spirit Weapons and Symbol traits, I don’t really see anything that guardian needs to be done to them.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I would think “great! Still doesn’t fit in honor though”.

They never said it was going into the Honor…

Fashion Mage.3712:

Also, that grammar.

Also that conceded, and very uncalled for, insult to someone who may not even have English as their first language.
GG mate!

TriggerSad.2597:

However saying that it’s uninteresting isn’t right, to me at least.

You don’t see how a trait that gives a flat 300 vitality is uninteresting? Your interest must be easy to pique I guess, either that or you just have low expectations.

TriggerSad.2597:

Yes we are spoiled. Guardians have hardly been hit by the nerf hammer as severely as other classes have. Off the top of my head, outside of the vigor nerfs, I don’t recall anything being as drastically nerfed as some of the nerfs to the Elementalist and Necromancer.
Now, does this mean we’re always given the new, and shiny, toys all the time? No, because we honestly don’t need them. Outside of a needed overhaul to Spirit Weapons and Symbol traits, I don’t really see anything that guardian needs to be done to them.

There are quite a few of the guardian’s utilities that remain virtually unused. Bow of Truth (even for a spirit weapon), Signet of Mercy, and Merciful Intervention are the ones that come to mind for me off the top of my head. What’s funny is that these skills are good in concept, it’s just that there are a few basic issues plaguing each of them that make them very bad options. Which leads me to my next point: I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m not asking for buffs to parts of the class that are already strong. I’m asking for buffs to the parts of the guardian that are unused (or used very little) because the devs have completely neglected them since beta.

TriggerSad.2597:

Also that conceded, and very uncalled for, insult to someone who may not even have English as their first language.
GG mate!

When I’m incorrectly criticized and called out for having an opinion that someone might not agree with, then yes, I’ll insult him (even if it was only light flaming anyway). So yeah, GG. Thanks for saying so.
This isn’t the first time he’s said “Anyone who disagrees with my opinion clearly hasn’t done x or y” either, and quite frankly I find it to be quite annoying. Not to mention that he just called numerous users here “whiners” (for disagreeing with his opinion of course) and “spoiled”.

TriggerSad.2597:

They never said it was going into the Honor…

The focus of the topic was the new grandmaster trait in the honor line. It may have been incorrect of me to assume as much, but it certainly wasn’t an unreasonable assumption.

I’ve seen some people excited about it. Some people have asked for more hit points and now it’s an option. Not every builds needs to be a shout.

That and we don’t want the 40 traits to be all auto-includes in everyone’s builds. I’m alright if it’s not the best trait (though one of the 6 should definitely be more awesome than this =).

Aeolus.3615:

Ezrael.6859:

Utter trash.

Raw hp is meaningless, especially after already putting 30 points into Honour and already having +3000 hp.

Real survivability comes from healing, condition removal, protection and dodging.

you already have those atributes on guardian, well sort off, all i imagine this +health is like a HP buffer, this is like one of the known updates we know they might have other new traits at realease.

I imagine alot of guardians that use 30 pts on honor will have it.

The only Guardians who invest into Honor and need a HP buffer are the ones who run PVT gear in a zerg spamming #1 on their Staff while taking damage from a thousand things they don’t need to while hoping they will live through the time it takes their zerg to throw up a new water field so they can get full healed again.

The only reason this trait would ever be useful is if you are somehow CC’d from 14,000 Health to 0 so you can’t use your two dodge rolls that will heal you for that oh-so-coveted 3,000 HP, at which point you are not running SYG! and would die from being a bad player regardless.

EFWinters.5421:

Aeolus.3615:

Ezrael.6859:

Utter trash.

Raw hp is meaningless, especially after already putting 30 points into Honour and already having +3000 hp.

Real survivability comes from healing, condition removal, protection and dodging.

you already have those atributes on guardian, well sort off, all i imagine this +health is like a HP buffer, this is like one of the known updates we know they might have other new traits at realease.

I imagine alot of guardians that use 30 pts on honor will have it.

The only Guardians who invest into Honor and need a HP buffer are the ones who run PVT gear in a zerg spamming #1 on their Staff while taking damage from a thousand things they don’t need to while hoping they will live through the time it takes their zerg to throw up a new water field so they can get full healed again.

The only reason this trait would ever be useful is if you are somehow CC’d from 14,000 Health to 0 so you can’t use your two dodge rolls that will heal you for that oh-so-coveted 3,000 HP, at which point you are not running SYG! and would die from being a bad player regardless.

Actually, I was picturing immobilize for those 14k hps. Removing half a dozen conditions and still being stuck in immobilize is the best.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Lucentfir.7430:

Snip

All those virtue effects also benefit yourself, but as with honor their primary usage is in support. Not to mention you ironically mentioned more pure-support traits than survivability in honor, and -fyi- increasing the survivability of your allies is still support.
Saying honor is more about survivability is like saying healers in mmorpgs are more about survivability than support because they can heal themselves.

Honor is Survival/Support line., Virtues is a Pure Support Line.
Honor=Vitality+Healing Power=Grounds of Survival
Virtues=Reduced Virtue Cooldows+Boon Duration=Pure Support

Most think primarily support because trait access to reduced shouts and PoV, which translates to support. Selfless Daring is good for solo, and Vigorous precision is good for more dodge, which is also good solo. The fact the honor line provides sustain which also benefits allies=sustain and support tied into one.

The trait line is also geared towards Symbols(Symbol-Larger/Longer/Heal) which are dual benefit for Support and AoE damage/Coverage/Healing(writ of the merciful). Not everyone plays Support bunker. Many a times if you do go down honor, there’s no reason to put 30 in full, because the Grandmasters are geared toward Support/shouts. What Anet did here was give a option for more survivablity(3k HP means more room for errors, or recovery) for selfish builds, that don’t use shouts or only use one. It’s for Duelers and roamers is wvw. It makes sense in the line, because it gives more Vitality, on top of the 300 you gain just by going 30 into honor any other line it wouldn’t make sense. Also this isn’t the only grandmaster we’re gettingWe’re getting 4 more. :/

I think this trait is good. You don’t want it to be OP neither guys. You just want it to fill a need in some situation. Here where i think this could be good.

For Bunker in sPvP. You are usually alone for long time against several opponent, so battle presence won’t be of much help. Also if you don’t use shout in your build or maybe only 1 shout. Then you are better with 3k hp.

For a WvW commanders. You want to be the tankiest in your group to be the last to die. A additional 3K (other guardian in you group can take battle presence or pure of voice) will help survive longer.

Its not suppose to be the best grandmaster trait. Its only suppose to give another option and if you think a bit about it, you will se that in some situation (not all of them) this trait can be useful.

I don’t see how this could fit into a complete build really.

Anyone have ideas yet?

3k hp is nice, but it’s about the complete picture.

I see people saying they use full honor tree without shouts… what are you doing then?

I’m just curious, some are saying they see it as something really good, what are you seeing that the rest of us aren’t? What is the build and direction you see it going?

Everything I can think of by simply going through the honor tree will solve the issues where guardian needs more health /shrug.

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how this could fit into a complete build really.

Anyone have ideas yet?

3k hp is nice, but it’s about the complete picture.

I see people saying they use full honor tree without shouts… what are you doing then?

I’m just curious, some are saying they see it as something really good, what are you seeing that the rest of us aren’t? What is the build and direction you see it going?

Everything I can think of by simply going through the honor tree will solve the issues where guardian needs more health /shrug.

It fits, it’s decent, it just gives others who run more selfish builds a option. Honor is good for sustain/survivablity.I know i grab Superior Aria in the line because i run Save yourselves. If you want Selfless Daring, and Vigor. Two handed Weapon CD trait is also good for those who run GS, or Hammer.

I can think of one; here’s a hastily drawn outline
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vUAQNAW5elsApZoFDxVI8DNhk9QkQwEE7BGlRd0VBHC-z0BBofCyEDw0HBKJtIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqmMAMjB-w

I think that could use 3k more health.

Edit: Changed a little

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how this could fit into a complete build really.

Anyone have ideas yet?

3k hp is nice, but it’s about the complete picture.

I see people saying they use full honor tree without shouts… what are you doing then?

I’m just curious, some are saying they see it as something really good, what are you seeing that the rest of us aren’t? What is the build and direction you see it going?

Everything I can think of by simply going through the honor tree will solve the issues where guardian needs more health /shrug.

I would use it on a ~/5/30/30/5 berserker/knights med guardian. I love two-handed mastery and the useful dodge, so I always try to invest on Honor 20. Currently that build doesn’t have a reason to go beyond 25.

I think too many people missed the part where they said there will be a new trait for every line.

Yeah I got to thinking about it and I guess you could make a nice hammer DPS build with it. Just going off Obal’s stuff as it’s easiest to explain off of. His 15/15/0/20/20 build for hammer could easily be swapped to a 15/15/0/30/10, dropping the extra healing/condition removal, along with the minor retaliation on virtue use. And picking up 10% damage when endurance not full (could be nice) as the minor, and 3k hp as the major. Losing some boon duration and virtue reuse for an extra 1k for 4k total extra hp.

Then if you did need condition removal over the hp, you could always swap in PoV.

Of course with the new retraiting anywhere thing, could just change things up completely if you needed condition removal for a certain part of a dungeon but not another.