Guild Wars 2

• Spear of Justice: This skill now applies 6 seconds of Revealed on the initial impact.

Unfortunately the rest of the patch neutered guardian pvp quite a bit so overall its a negative.

Everything got shaves where necessary and it’s healthy for the game, look at all classes underused stuff was buffed, overperforming stuff was shaved.

lul underused skills got near useless buffs. Seems they’re prepping for the xpac by nerfing the crap out of everything so you will only get to use the new especs again.

Build diversity hype.

I don’t understand these changes, as someone who dual mains thief/guard. Thief v DH matchups were already lopsided in favor of DH pre patch. This only widens an already large gap. And then the TS nerf in favor of signet buffs that no one will use anyways…

Doomdesire.9365:

And then the TS nerf in favor of signet buffs that no one will use anyways…

True Shot didn’t deserve to be nerfed (DH did though, along with the rest of the elite specs), but I don’t think you understand how balancing works. One doesn’t just leave underpowered skills underpowered because “no one will use them anyways”.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Doomdesire.9365:

And then the TS nerf in favor of signet buffs that no one will use anyways…

True Shot didn’t deserve to be nerfed (DH did though, along with the rest of the elite specs), but I don’t think you understand how balancing works. One doesn’t just leave underpowered skills underpowered because “no one will use them anyways”.

You missed my point entirely. No one will use them anyways because the buffs did nothing to add to their viability. No one here is against buffing skills that are utter garbage.

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t understand these changes, as someone who dual mains thief/guard. Thief v DH matchups were already lopsided in favor of DH pre patch. This only widens an already large gap. And then the TS nerf in favor of signet buffs that no one will use anyways…

Yes and no

2 words:

Revealed Training

If a DH wants to be nice and give me +200 power so I don’t have to waste my initiative stealthing otherwise, ill take it as it means more initiative saved and more damage behind my Unload and Pulmonary Impact

Doomdesire.9365:

You missed my point entirely. No one will use them anyways because the buffs did nothing to add to their viability. No one here is against buffing skills that are utter garbage.

The buffs most certainly did add to their viability, and by quite a bit. Most guardians won’t be able to see that simply because that’s just the kind of crowd DH draws. I mean the best argument people have for SoC being bad right now is “It’s the best burst heal in the game, BUT THE PASSIVE IS USELESS THEREFORE THE WHOLE SKILL IS USELESS”.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Revealed Training

If a DH wants to be nice and give me +200 power so I don’t have to waste my initiative stealthing otherwise, ill take it as it means more initiative saved and more damage behind my Unload and Pulmonary Impact

That’s an awfully positive stance considering that almost all thieves take Panic Strike over that, and also considering that 6 seconds of revealed as a thief typically means that you’re either forced to retreat or you die.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Doomdesire.9365:

You missed my point entirely. No one will use them anyways because the buffs did nothing to add to their viability. No one here is against buffing skills that are utter garbage.

The buffs most certainly did add to their viability, and by quite a bit. Most guardians won’t be able to see that simply because that’s just the kind of crowd DH draws. I mean the best argument people have for SoC being bad right now is “It’s the best burst heal in the game, BUT THE PASSIVE IS USELESS THEREFORE THE WHOLE SKILL IS USELESS”.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Revealed Training

If a DH wants to be nice and give me +200 power so I don’t have to waste my initiative stealthing otherwise, ill take it as it means more initiative saved and more damage behind my Unload and Pulmonary Impact

That’s an awfully positive stance considering that almost all thieves take Panic Strike over that, and also considering that 6 seconds of revealed as a thief typically means that you’re either forced to retreat or you die.

Well I run Revealed Training and it def helps. Panic strike is ok, however in my builds I like running something that people do not expect (aka non meta). FOr the “typical” teef thats what revealed usually means…but im not your typical teef,lol.

When your power can push 4k you go for it

Fashion Mage.3712:

The buffs most certainly did add to their viability, and by quite a bit. Most guardians won’t be able to see that simply because that’s just the kind of crowd DH draws. I mean the best argument people have for SoC being bad right now is “It’s the best burst heal in the game, BUT THE PASSIVE IS USELESS THEREFORE THE WHOLE SKILL IS USELESS”.

That’s what you think the argument is?

Being the best burst heal in the game doesn’t make it a good skill, it makes it interesting trivia. There are a lot of “best at” skills, not all of them are good.

There’s no use for a full heal on such a ridiculous cooldown, when druid can heal the party to full every 12 seconds by going into Celestial Avatar and popping 1 or 2 glyphs. Yes, druid uses multiple skills to achieve what SoC does alone, but Signet takes the place of your elite and you can only do it once every 90 seconds. And druid doesn’t have to do it alone, everyone has a way of healing their own health, and a lot of classes have AoE heals.

And that’s where the passive portion comes into play. As a signet, it could at least have a good passive so that until you get a chance to use the active, you can at least benefit from another effect, but SoC’s passive is worse than the regeneration boon.

SoC is a skill that doesn’t belong to the game in its current implementation. In other games, where not every class has a heal, there’s no out-of-combat regeneration, and the damage is not one-shot based, then it could be useful.

In gw2 though, even if the perfect moment arrises, it’s very possible that by the time you finish the 2 1/2 cast, the people you are trying to heal are already downed or dead.

You have to jump through a billion hoops to make this skill work, that’s why the skill is bad. And even when it does work, it’s hardly a game changing effect. I would much rather have a Rebound over a full heal, at least that effect has a place in the game to avoid one-shots.

RabbitUp.8294:

That’s what you think the argument is?

It’s certainly the most popular argument, and it’s an argument that you’re ironically making in the very post I’m replying to.

RabbitUp.8294:

There’s no use for a full heal on such a ridiculous cooldown, when druid can heal the party to full every 12 seconds by going into Celestial Avatar and popping 1 or 2 glyphs. Yes, druid uses multiple skills to achieve what SoC does alone, but Signet takes the place of your elite and you can only do it once every 90 seconds. And druid doesn’t have to do it alone, everyone has a way of healing their own health, and a lot of classes have AoE heals.

90 seconds (72 seconds) is nowhere near “ridiculous” for a team full-heal. I’ve never heard anyone complaining about Renewed Focus when it had a 90 second cooldown (now more in PvP), but as soon as it comes down to a proper support skill everyone thinks it’s bad because it offers no benefit to themselves (and because anything harder to use than RF (ie. not remotely hard) is shunned).
Celestial avatar doesn’t full heal people, and it’s not 1200 range for the most part, so it won’t be affecting an entire team and it will require them to sit on-top of an ally getting cleaved. Of course you could be referring to PvE specifically, but again, a lot of things heal well in PvE (in fact water elementalists heal a lot better than druids do), the druid is just used because it buffs the party with offensive buffs.
I don’t really see how all classes having limited healing somehow makes a 1200-range full heal any worse, just like how I don’t see how that makes any healing skill worse.

RabbitUp.8294:

And that’s where the passive portion comes into play. As a signet, it could at least have a good passive so that until you get a chance to use the active, you can at least benefit from another effect, but SoC’s passive is worse than the regeneration boon.

Yes, but that’s under the assumption that the active bad. Except it isn’t.

RabbitUp.8294:

SoC is a skill that doesn’t belong to the game in its current implementation. In other games, where not every class has a heal, there’s no out-of-combat regeneration, and the damage is not one-shot based, then it could be useful.

The argument you’re making here is applicable to all healing, and especially sustained healing, which doesn’t quite make sense since supportive healing is used in all game modes (and SoC is a burst heal).
If you’re referring to PvE, every class can heal and yet healers are a requirement, so your argument is invalid and I’m not going to bother discussing healing skills in PvE further.
If you’re referring to PvP, nobody gets one-shotted in PvP, and nobody would use a burst skill for out-of-combat regen in any game, so that makes no sense.
If you’re referring to WvW, I don’t think I even need to bother debating about supportive healing being used there.

RabbitUp.8294:

In gw2 though, even if the perfect moment arrises, it’s very possible that by the time you finish the 2 1/2 cast, the people you are trying to heal are already downed or dead.

l2p issue.

RabbitUp.8294:

You have to jump through a billion hoops to make this skill work, that’s why the skill is bad. And even when it does work, it’s hardly a game changing effect. I would much rather have a Rebound over a full heal, at least that effect has a place in the game to avoid one-shots.

No, the skill is “bad” because why should people bother timing a strong skill when they can just use an elite as easy as an instant-cast invulnerability.
Last time I checked, Rebound isn’t even liked by elementalists, and for good reason, the amount it heals is pitiful and the only reason it’s used occasionally is because the rest of their elites are just as bad. Again, if you like what other classes have so much then go and play those classes instead.

Yeah I gotta say, SoC is just bad. I tried playing an Altruistic Healing bunker and swapped out my elite for SoC, and I even managed to save some allies and myself with the full heal a couple of times, but I died much easier to focus fire. I swapped back to Renewed Focus and got much better results. Didn’t miss the passive at all, and Renewed Focus allowed me to survive bursts and the reset on my virtues provided better support to my team than SoC ever did. If the passive on SoC was better, then it would be worth taking. I imagine it is hard for them to balance it though cause they don’t want to make the passive so strong that it basically becomes an aoe Healing Signet.

I’m not sure what you were expecting, RF is miles better than SoC for self-survivability and bunkers. A bit of an extreme comparison, but that’s like equipping a condition weapon on a power build and going “Wow this condition weapon is just bad”.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I’m not sure what you were expecting, RF is miles better than SoC for self-survivability and bunkers. A bit of an extreme comparison, but that’s like equipping a condition weapon on a power build and going “Wow this condition weapon is just bad”.

I was thinking, hey SoC was buffed, I should try it out just to see if it helped any or if it was still same old same old. Wasn’t expecting anything great, but I like to actually try things out before bashing them.

I’m not going to bother replying to you anymore. It’s clear you are too stuck on the hipster mentality, where good skills are brainless, bad skills are underappreciated and people just don’t bother enough.

Just wait for when and if guardian gets that healer/support spec and see how not even that build will bother ever using SoC in its current state.

RabbitUp.8294:

I’m not going to bother replying to you anymore. It’s clear you are too stuck on the hipster mentality, where good skills are brainless, bad skills are underappreciated and people just don’t bother enough.

Just wait for when and if guardian gets that healer/support spec and see how not even that build will bother ever using SoC in its current state.

> “not going to bother replying”
> replies

You guys can just, yknow, disagree respectfully. The skill has a great active effect, it’s 1200 range lol that’s the size of mid at Foefire. And the passive effect works well for the guardian if not for the team. It has its uses, let’s just agree that it’s a viable option if not a no-brainer.

Huskyboy.1053:

> “not going to bother replying”
> replies

You guys can just, yknow, disagree respectfully. The skill has a great active effect, it’s 1200 range lol that’s the size of mid at Foefire. And the passive effect works well for the guardian if not for the team. It has its uses, let’s just agree that it’s a viable option if not a no-brainer.

Lel, I can agree with that.

This is a HUGE freebie and everyone should be kissing Anet’s behind for getting it.

My fellow Guardians, I’d love to see or reads y’all’s success with SoC in Duo or SoloQ.

That said, I do see some usages in a 5man team where coordination with your team in VoiP can yield a successful full team heal up.

However, I feel the elite will belong on Mender build guards regardless, rather than Marauder builds, because Mender symbolic using RF in a fight is redundant; odds are, they’re going down anyways if you’re needing to resort to that last option savior button.

Don’t mean to double post but, FYI gentlemen, precast Signet of Courage + Merciful Intervention or Judge’s Intervention.

Merciful Intervention + the elite is kind of a waste but with the 1200 range with the elite, I see that combo working really well. You don’t need to be in the line of fire at all if you don’t need to be.

Going to mess with it on my mender’s guard.

I start a thread stating Spear of Justice got a straight buff and people are arguing over SoC vs RF. I luvit!!!!

Sly.9518:

I start a thread stating Spear of Justice got a straight buff and people are arguing over SoC vs RF. I luvit!!!!

Ikr lol

Fought my first DH today since the patch. Right on queue he speared me, I interrupted the pull (steal ftw) which gave him the pulm impact and me +200 power than bursted him down with P/P…ahhh….life is good.

Sly.9518:

I start a thread stating Spear of Justice got a straight buff and people are arguing over SoC vs RF. I luvit!!!!

The title says, “new toy”, we’re basically adding more toys to the list

Saiyan.1704:

Don’t mean to double post but, FYI gentlemen, precast Signet of Courage + Merciful Intervention or Judge’s Intervention.

Merciful Intervention + the elite is kind of a waste but with the 1200 range with the elite, I see that combo working really well. You don’t need to be in the line of fire at all if you don’t need to be.

Going to mess with it on my mender’s guard.

I’m surprised that someone here actually figured out how to use it sensibly.

Obtena.7952:

This is a HUGE freebie and everyone should be kissing Anet’s behind for getting it.

so true….