Guild Wars 2

It is pretty sad, because i was pretty much expecting the 25% coming now, since the feedback on that matter was kinda overwhelming unanimous. I would really like to know the reason behind that decision though. For me and i know one person doenst even matter, it is the reason for changing class finally.

Meh, I prefer the pull on spear of justice over that.

The argument for this has always been: “chronomancer got it so I want it too”

ArenaNet should rather remove, than add, the speed increase utilities and traits from certain professions.

It just became a “power creep” thing which got out of hand because people wanted it.

Remove it and make swiftness a thing again.

Bacon.1835:

The argument for this has always been: “chronomancer got it so I want it too”

“Chronomancer got it, giving every class besides guardian the ability to passively and permanently increase move speed with a single trait or utility skill, so guardians should get that too because it’s basically a QoL feature at this point.”

Heck, I would have taken it if they’d tweaked the values on Retreat! so it could be perma’d with Pure of Voice, that would still be a trait and a skill, a worse tax than anyone else. But we couldn’t get that. And our mobile kiting Elite Spec couldn’t get a 25% passive or utility either.

I have 100% world complete on my guardian, he’s been my main since release, and I’m tired of lagging behind everyone who feels like slotting a single signet/trait for open world stuff. I’m swapping to Herald when HoT launches.

I’m willing to bet the speed boost is going to be saved for whatever next elite spec we get. Maybe it’ll be based around rushdown tactics, so you need the extra speed to get in close.

Farzo.8410:

ArenaNet should rather remove, than add, the speed increase utilities and traits from certain professions.

It just became a “power creep” thing which got out of hand because people wanted it.

Remove it and make swiftness a thing again.

Thats absolutely true. Swiftness is not a good boon, if most players have 25% movement boost all the time. 7% more (which can be stripped), who cares?

Adapt the movement speed to the higher pace of the game and increase it generally by 10%. Remove the 25% boost traits and runes and replace them by features, that give u swiftness for some seconds (only you, not your allies).

This is really irritating. I wonder why are they so stubborn about that; it’s not like 25% movement speed is a real issue in terms of efficiency – at least outside WvW roaming. All it does is force WvW people (and anyone wishing to run open world stuff without lagging behind the horde) to use traveler runes. What’s the point?

Honestly, I’d really like to hear some reasoning behind that. If there is some serious balance reason, please let us know, I promise at least some of us will accept it and shut up. The way they completetly ignore people repeteadly asking for this improvement is… let’s just say, not nice at all.

And finally:

ArenaNet should rather remove, than add, the speed increase utilities and traits from certain professions.

It just became a “power creep” thing which got out of hand because people wanted it.

Remove it and make swiftness a thing again.

This is absolutely true, and kind of besides the point. Personally I agree that current situation makes swiftness irrelevant in most scenarios, but the issue at hand is that currently EVERY CLASS BUT GUARDIAN has access to passive 25% ms thing. As I said above, it’s not really an issue in most “serious” game modes, but a huge QoL thing. I agree that removing those utilities and increasing movement speed accross the board would be a better option, but I don’t think it’s even being considered at this point.

Really, hearing “RETREAT!!!” almost twice a minute gets old fast.

they should nerf the passive movement speed bonus srs. make it 15% rather than 25 because swiftness has become more useless with how rampant it is

Amaya.1483:

It is pretty sad, because i was pretty much expecting the 25% coming now, since the feedback on that matter was kinda overwhelming unanimous. I would really like to know the reason behind that decision though. For me and i know one person doenst even matter, it is the reason for changing class finally.

What ‘decision’? Not changing things is normal and doubly so for a profession that already performs well in every play mode. “I WANNA BE MORE POWERFUL” usually is unanimous and not a reason for any Dev anywhere to make changes.

IF we ever see a speed buff, it should be in the core profession anyway so having it not pop up walled off behind an Espec trait line is a good thing.

Tristavel.9218:

This is absolutely true, and kind of besides the point. Personally I agree that current situation makes swiftness irrelevant in most scenarios, but the issue at hand is that currently EVERY CLASS BUT GUARDIAN has access to passive 25% ms thing.

Do you really want to play “every class but mine has…” games? Because believe me some of the others have more serious gaps than Guardian….

Amaya.1483:

It is pretty sad, because i was pretty much expecting the 25% coming now, since the feedback on that matter was kinda overwhelming unanimous. I would really like to know the reason behind that decision though. For me and i know one person doenst even matter, it is the reason for changing class finally.

We knew this over a year ago. Anet provided the confirmation AND the reasoning in a Ready up episode (13 I think). Feedback from players is a REALLY bad way to set your expectations.

Either way it’s still funny how Guard is the only class left without MS passive.

I wanna cry. The guardian/dragon hunter was one step away from being my favorite class.

As unpopular as this opinion may be I don’t want a 25% movement speed buff. The point of this game isn’t to standardize every single class and make classes just feel like different flavors of each other. I like every class because there are quirks and “flaws” about them that make them feel unique and balanced. The lack of sustained mobility/swiftness/movement speed on guardian is one of those quirks.

The thing is, we’re such formidable foes even without a 25% movement speed buff. There’s a lot we can do that other classes can’t. I honestly have come across very few situations in which I felt I needed a 25% movement speed increase. Cool-down and skill management combined with very decent condi clear (clearing off immobs and chills) can keep you right where you need to be most of the time.

As for travelling across a map, you have to work at it which is somewhat annoying, but you can easily keep up with other +25% movement speed classes by rotating through your mobility skills/utilities.

Mesmers asked for a 25% run speed passive and they got it, rangers didn’t ask for a 33% run speed passive yet they got it.

The fact is we now have 8/9 classes professions who have 25% run speed passive or better, guards are the only profession without a 25% run speed passive so it is actually a balance issue that we don’t have it rather then asking for professions to be standardized (not to mention that proper balance is about making every profession as equal as possible but still different to each other).

Guards are currently forced into using staff, retreat and save yourselves all at once just to attempt to keep up. We basically lose a whole weapon slot and 2 utility skills due to this which in wvw makes you a very easy kill and in pve it results in your build being weakened greatly, no guard ever uses retreat in Spvp and there is far better options for utility’s in Spvp then save yourselves and staff only caters to healing/support builds in Spvp or wvw. Very few guards play healing or support as well.

Other professions do not pay nearly as much of a cost to their builds for run speed this is why its unfair for guards to still not have a 25% run speed trait.

Another reason for a 25% trait is it also themes well with what dragon hunter is meant to be about, hunters must be fast in order to pursue their prey. A hunter is agile also again a 25% run speed trait falls into the dragon hunter theme perfectly.

Defenders dogma it’s self is basically a empty trait at the moment, and is the perfect candidate for a 25% run speed trait to be put in its place.

Farzo.8410:

ArenaNet should rather remove, than add, the speed increase utilities and traits from certain professions.

It just became a “power creep” thing which got out of hand because people wanted it.

Remove it and make swiftness a thing again.

I love your quote picture XD

Also, I agree with you, the passive movement speed traits should just get removed.

Starting to find it very intriguing why a 25 % MS trait is an absolute requirement. As it’s not like we have other options to provide MS. Is a rune set, skill such a larger build cost them a trait? Players talk about a 25% MS skill or trait like there different, like there not costing a skill or trait slot that you would typically have something already slotted.

For me passive 25% MS has make swiftness next to pointless & the addition of super speed was like what the, wasn’t swiftness supposed to fulfil that function. I’ve come to accept super speed as it’s like the sprinter of movement & swiftness should be the marathon runner but funnly typically swiftness is left behind for passive 25% MS.

Now if passive 25% MS in that required why not make that the base movement speed. But them everyone would be complaining there slow again because everyone’s the same speed. Otherwise why not chase the addition of other stat rune sets that have a 25% passive MS instead of wasting it on a trait or skill which could provide so much more.

Okay have about this idea Remove all passive 25% MS* either change skill for the inclusion of swiftness or super speed which every makes more sense. Then have three game state modes:

• In combat - has the current combat speed
• Out of combat - has current out of combat speed
• Exploration - provides the passive 25% MS baseline. Requires uninterrupted out of combat movement of 30 sec. Stopping for 5 sec places you back to out of combat speed.

The time requirement on exploration is there to make it not so easy to disengage. So it still requires super speed, swiftness & movement skill to open up a large enough gap so this can come into effect. Keeping it at 25% MS is to still allows chasing someone down.

Blackdeath.2607:

Guards are currently forced into using staff, retreat and save yourselves all at once just to attempt to keep up. We basically lose a whole weapon slot and 2 utility skills due to this.

Not really.

Maybe if you’re trying to get back to your zerg in wvw, or running through trash in pve, but when you want to actually engage in combat or roam you’d be better-off taking your utilities and a different weapon.

You seriously overrate the ms passive.

It’s interesting seeing other classes get speed increases too. I guess Trav runes will only be utilized on Guardian and not other classes.

*Speed modifiers now stack on Guardian when using traps."

Trav runes 25% + 33% swiftness buff ftw.

Wouldn’t that be the biggest holycrap change?

So basically any swiftness is converted into super speed for it’s duration.

As a main guardian without passive MS trait I feel like standing next to a closed door and behind it there is a party where all other classes are invited.
It is really a bummer that we are forced to use staff or utilities and a traveler runes which is limiting our possibilities.
There are always people that don’t see it as a problem, there always are no matter the issue (even some say that thieves are fine the way they are #JustProThings).
But being the only class without MS might not be a big problem but at least an issue.
Can you imagine how it must be humiliating when you spvp and you get hunted down because you couldn’t outrun your enemies ? It’s not like you always have a sword TP or any other kind of movement skill off cooldown that will aid you on demand.
Guards may have sweet deeps, but we could have even more sweet deeps if we were not forced to use utility that strip us from making even more deeps combos, weapon that is not meant to damage (staff) or runes that won’t give us any nice procs.
Because we could either run fast through the field of battle to act quick but have it lil’ bit harder to fight and burst or we could hit harder but as we know it everyone will outrun us, catch us or we will miss the best bits of the fight as we get into it too late.
(exepction for bunker and supp guards, they don’t seem to mind.)
Well, I still do good as a power mediguard with traveler runes, but I wish I could boost myself even more.
Anyway, is it just me or guardian’s passives are not that breathtaking considering other classes ?

Arcaedus.7290:

As unpopular as this opinion may be I don’t want a 25% movement speed buff. The point of this game isn’t to standardize every single class and make classes just feel like different flavors of each other. I like every class because there are quirks and “flaws” about them that make them feel unique and balanced. The lack of sustained mobility/swiftness/movement speed on guardian is one of those quirks.

Pretty much this. If I want mobility I will take swiftness, shadowsteps, or Traveler Runes. For the most part though, mobility is pretty low on my priority list when it comes to rolling a Guard given all the other utility that I can bring to a fight that others can’t do as readily.

PvE: It’s not an issue. We can stack perma-swiftness, and it’s rare to have that boon stripped.

PvP: It’s nice to have to get from point to point, but most of the time I find my speed being irrelevant due to being in combat. At that point I turn to shadowsteps to get around quickly.

WvW: In a zerg situation it’s not a big issue either. There’s enough boons going around where it’s easy to pick up swiftness (more so the more organized the squad is). I can definitely see an issue with movement in Roaming situations where speed is of the essence, and a Guard can’t afford to slot sub-par skills/traits solely for swiftness. Though, at this point, if I were dedicating my Guard to Roaming duty I would invest in Traveller runes.

Ultimately, most of the arguments I’ve see on this subforum advocating for a 25% buff of sort are just finger pointing at the other classes and asking “why can’t I have nice things”?

A question for thoses wanting a paasive 25% MS trait.

Why are Rune of the Traveller & Rune of Speed not build options for fulfilling this requirement?

• The stat bonuses?
• The other non stat bonuses?

If this is the case couldn’t another new rune set with different stats & the other non stat bonuses be acceptable.

Why waste a trait for 25% MS when it could be something so much more. I find it sad that so many professions has receive 25% MS as it becomes what’s the point of it on rune sets. I was hoping certain bonuses were only available through certain build options. For me 25% MS felt like it should be rune exclusive. Actually this is something I would like to see changed for all 25% MS skills & traits. My these skills traits provide swiftness or super speed & add new differing stat rune sets providing 25% MS to go with Traveller’s & Speed. As it seems 25% MS is a stat players these would be strong set options to compete between other options.

Bezagron.7352:

A question for thoses wanting a paasive 25% MS trait.

Why are Rune of the Traveller & Rune of Speed not build options for fulfilling this requirement?

The expense. I don’t like or feel like it’s fair to have to maintain one set of world exploration armor with runes dedicated to a passive speed boost, plus another set of armor (6 bag slots and x amount of gold) for running dungeons or serious content, when everyone else can swap out one trait or utility skill to transition between the two (or one trait line, at worst). It’s the least convenient possible way to get a convenience bonus.

Zyrhan.3180:

Bezagron.7352:

A question for thoses wanting a paasive 25% MS trait.

Why are Rune of the Traveller & Rune of Speed not build options for fulfilling this requirement?

The expense. I don’t like or feel like it’s fair to have to maintain one set of world exploration armor with runes dedicated to a passive speed boost, plus another set of armor (6 bag slots and x amount of gold) for running dungeons or serious content, when everyone else can swap out one trait or utility skill to transition between the two (or one trait line, at worst). It’s the least convenient possible way to get a convenience bonus.

Just wondering if Retreat’s provide equivalent MS to a 25% passive. Maybe we coul look at averaging Retreat’s MS so if spammed it provides this maybe it already close. This could be another option a slight increase to Retreat’s swiftness, then it’s a single skill swap easier then other build changes.

Zyrhan.3180:

Bezagron.7352:

A question for thoses wanting a paasive 25% MS trait.

Why are Rune of the Traveller & Rune of Speed not build options for fulfilling this requirement?

The expense. I don’t like or feel like it’s fair to have to maintain one set of world exploration armor with runes dedicated to a passive speed boost, plus another set of armor (6 bag slots and x amount of gold) for running dungeons or serious content, when everyone else can swap out one trait or utility skill to transition between the two (or one trait line, at worst). It’s the least convenient possible way to get a convenience bonus.

Just wondering if Retreat’s provide equivalent MS to a 25% passive. Maybe we coul look at averaging Retreat’s MS so if spammed it provides this maybe it already close. This could be another option a slight increase to Retreat’s swiftness, then it’s a single skill swap easier then other build changes.

Target swiftness uptime to equal +25% move speed = ~75%
+30% duration is from something like Rune of the Pack or Rune of the Centaur instead of Traveler’s or Speed.

Retreat untraited, no swiftness duration = 50%
Traited Retreat = 62.5%
Untraited Retreat with +30% duration = 65%
Traited Retreat with +30% duration = 81.25%

Untraited Save Yourselves = 16.6%
Traited Save Yourselves = 20.8%
Untraited Save Yourselves with +30% duration = 21.6%
Traited Save Yourselves with +30% duration = 27%

Untraited Light’s Judgement = 33%
Traited Lights Judgement = 41.6%
Untraited Lights Judgement with +30% duration = 43.3%
Traited Lights Judgement with +30% duration = 54.1%

Untraited single tick Symbol of Swiftness = 26.6%
Untraited full duration SoS = 80%
Traited single SoS (+ 20%) = 40%
Traited full SoS (+ 20%) = 126.6%
Untraited single SoS with +30% = 34.6%
Untraited full SoS with +30% = 112%
Traited single SoS with +30% = 50%
Traited full SoS with +30% = 166.6%

Rune of Pack (internal +30%) = 65%
Anything I’ve forgotten?

Thanks Ghotistyx for the maths. So to adjust Retreat to provide 75% base with would match a passive 25% MS we would need Retreat to supply 30 sec of swiftness with the current 40 sec CD.

Or lowering of Retreat’s CD to 30 sec would provide 66.6% base & with traited or +30% swiftness duration exceeding the 25% MS passive benefits.

The question them becomes is they a chance Arenanet could adjust Retreat so it could provide the same benefit as a 25% MS passive. I would love this but don’t feel it will happen as this not only solves this for guardian but any 4 extra players travelling with you. But maybe with the increase to boon counter play as this only benefits out of combat.

The other option for a selfish 75% target uptime of swiftness could be the increase to Save Yourselves if retreat is off the board. Doing any of this & we no longer require a passive 25% MS to fulfill players major wants. 25% MS will still have it’s place as a stat as unlike swiftness uptime it can’t be removed by boon strip.

I also don’t think we would be having this discussion if Sw#2 teleport moved the full distance without a target & Merciful Intervention also had untargeted teleport (treat it like Ride the lightning halves recharge if it heals an ally).

Karl? ….. Karl? Are you there?

Hopeful too busy working as HoTs release is just around the corner and anytime spend posting takes time away from maybe implementing polish & changes. Although it be nice with the time left I would prefer a post after release pointing out feedback changes (like a thanks & aknownement to players) & hopefully further changes incoming & the future direction of the profession that couldn’t be added or dicussed before release.

the way guard is now i dont think there is a need for +25% MS, so many pulls teleports and leaps as well as a swiftness/aegis skill.