Guild Wars 2

This is the OP from a mega thread taken from GW2guru in the Guardian forums by Trumiaen, with some liberal grammar edits by me:

I think it’s safe to say that every class has a viable choice between melee and ranged except for Guardians. After playing well over 50 hours of guardian PvP I have come to the conclusion that we are bound to go melee.

We got a staff which is a pretty awesome support weapon, though its range is short and cannot really be seen as a ranged weapon option in my eyes.
The other choice is a Scepter, which has great range and nice utility, and I can see how it can be useful (immobilize (3) + nuke (2)), but what makes it really really bad in my opinion is the that the auto attack is ridiculously slow and easy to avoid since it doesn’t “home in” onto the target, making it generally unusable past close-mid range. You can actually walk away from the orbs, no roll dodge needed. Not to even mention that they even NERFED the damage on the scepter’s auto attack!

This is really upsetting me since I’d like to have a ranged option and not be bound to go melee for the rest of my life as a Guardian, although I don’t see Anet changing anything in this area anytime soon, if ever

I just felt so kitten in WvW when I saw warriors \ rangers with awesome longbows, and even thieves have a good ranged arsenal, and I was sitting there spamming auto attacks like akitten waiting for my 2 to come off cooldown.

Does anyone feel the same or is it just me?

The Uprising’s imput: A lot of people concluded we either need a shortbow, which would be awesome, or the scepter’s orb needs to sped up. In WvW I feel like I can do no damage outside of the 2 on my scepter and Wall of Reflection. Which is a problem since you don’t get drops unless you damage things. Also, kitten.

yep, been an issue since BWE1, its better than it was, but its still pretty bad. Lack of a decent ranged weapon is why I am not playing guardian, despite it being my preferred class otherwise.
Thank god I’ve come to love my mesmer.

Engineer doesn’t exactly have a melee option, thus balancing this out.

Ouspensky.5248:

Engineer doesn’t exactly have a melee option, thus balancing this out.

Except that he has a ranged weapon, and ranged weapons are viable in all modes of play. Guardian is more of a pure melee to mid range guy, and those things aren’t viable in most of WvW.

What seems odd to me is that the staff feels like it should be the long range weapon, and the Scepter should be the mid range weapon, it feels the wrong way round to me.

And yeah agree about the orbs, they are slow, I have been using Greatsword and Scepter/Shield for a while in WvWvW and I kinda like the Scepter, but the auto orb attack needs some work.

Ouspensky.5248:

Engineer doesn’t exactly have a melee option, thus balancing this out.

Not true.

Engineers have no melee weapon option in their weapon slot. But they have a melee weapon KIT (Toolkit, where they equip a wrench and gain a set of melee focused attack skills), they also have the bomb kit set, which is psuedo-melee (Dealling damage to adjacent targets using planted explosives rather than punching them) – bomb kit is in fact one of their most powerful kits.

In contrast, guardians have no means at all to launch long range attacks that are either on a) a long cooldown. or b) fire projectiles that meander along at a snails pace. as the Op has said.

Still I don’t have a good suggestion on how to resolve this guardians epitomise close quarters combat, having exceptional defensive and melee/close range damage – for that reason alone their long range capability should be the weakest of all the classes… finding that sweet spot where they are weak, but not kittened is the tricky bit.

Adding speed and maybe a little range to scepter should do the trick or maybe one day they make our spirit bow usable by us with few skills on it, that would be awesome

When you say: “Every class except guardian currently has a viable ranged and melee option” is this really true? Im extremely new to the game (today) but are you saying that Elementalist has a viable melee fighting option? Taking into account that they are apparently the softest armor but highest damage class.

Bassario.3465:

When you say: “Every class except guardian currently has a viable ranged and melee option” is this really true? Im extremely new to the game (today) but are you saying that Elementalist has a viable melee fighting option? Taking into account that they are apparently the softest armor but highest damage class.

They have a dagger+dagger option and some traits that gives toughness or armors.

I think it’d be kinda cool if Guardians could use pistols, which in conjunction with the torch could make for a really cool “witch hunter” look. I just like the guns in this game more in general, actually. They really give off a feeling of power with every shot, whereas with the scepter I feel like I’m tossing luminescent tennis balls at people until they die from laughter

Not only is this difficult in PvP, this is very troublesome in PvE. Melee is punished a great deal more than ranged in a number of ways.

Rolling another class doesnt fix this problem.

Various fixes for this?

Give the guardian the option to use a rifle. (I could actually see this work; have the rifle shoot rays of light or something along those lines)

Or

Give the following changes to scepter
- Reduce range of scepter to 900
- Increase speed of projectiles so that it is almost instantaneous (like other ranged weapons on other professions)
- Make Smite a pulsing AoE attack (like a symbol?)

i kind of really like the scepter as it is now…

i’m a noob then?

I fail to see why a heavy armor melee warrior class has to bother with a staff and a scepter, like they’ some skirt wearing caster wussies from other mmorpgs.

Give the guardians a pistol for pistol/shield combo or a shortbow, not some glowing slow motion magical tennisball thrower.

It is a severe lack of balance if any class has a viable ranged dps build except the guardian. I mean, wasn’t this game all about everyone is viable in every role since the are no real roles? Right now the guardian is the only class with no viable ranged options.

Heck, I wish they just gave him at least the spear from underwate combat. It’s such a fun weapon and the skills are absolutely awesome.

During the second or third Beta Weekend, someone from Arenanet said they also felt the Guardian’s ranged capabilities were lacking, but that we shouldn’t expect a new weapon before release. And then they upped the range on the Scepter/Focus/Torch.
That being said, we are less capable at range than other professions, but outside of WvWvW it doesn’t bother me too much.
I don’t see any improvements on the horizon unless they reconcept the Scepter, or give us a new weapon.
I’d really like to see a Rifle, both because I like how they look in the game, and because I think it would be interesting to see how Guardians use them.

An a related note: Other people have argued that all the defensive abilities of the Guardian (most notably: Wall of Reflection) would make the Guardian overpowered with a real long-range option. Would do you think about that?

I think the problem is here that people feel like they have to pick one or the other.

I rock scepter + focus / 2h mace in WvW. But I’ll use both in any fight (except keep assault)

The scepter is fantastic for singling out that target that has strayed out from the main pack. Start loading in that auto-attack before getting in range of the aoe. Then throw on the snare and drop the AoE. I then quickly throw on the focus’s defensive #4 skill and swap into 2hander.

Now comes the pain, the second snare goes down as I then circle around then and smash them back towards friendly lines. At this point I’m probably hitting my healing utilities as the main group turns their attention to me. But it’s too late for poor jimbob who just took a ton of mace to face, he’s back in our group now and a quick circle on the ground followed by some mace nukage see’s his broken skull shattered into tiny pieces on the ground.

Now this doesn’t pull off every time, but I’ve got pretty good at perfecting it and I’ve done similar setups with other combos of weapons.

I think the huge misconception in Guild Wars is that you keep one set of weapons for an entire fight. I’m usually hammering tilde and waiting for the cooldown to come off so I can make use of all my abilities, the scepter is a fantastic addition to the Guardians arsenal, but you’re not going to make the best of it you are standing there waddling your wand and expecting people to fall down dead.

Play about with the mechanics you have available, the traits, the abilities and you’ll soon find the scepter is a fantastic weapon – it’s certainly one of my favourites!

Volkrin.9765:

I think it’d be kinda cool if Guardians could use pistols, which in conjunction with the torch could make for a really cool “witch hunter” look.

Witch hunter would be an interesting idea, although I’d already be happy of they simply speed up the scepter’s autoattack.

The scepter is a decent weapon and i use it often in pve when faced with champion or other high damage mobs however there many situations in wvwvw where it does not work well. I don’t think it would be far fetched to get a short bow for a true ranged weapon given that we have a spell to summon spirit weapons with one of them being a bow.

.. I just fought a medium ranged guardian who was shooting blue wavy sword things at my face 1v1 in spvp. You guys got plenty of range, trust me. You imba to the core.

Same issue with engineer.

Rifle is 1000 range at max, and works best at melee range.

Traited it hits 1200 but, still works best at melee range.

Pistol never reaches 1200.

Only thing that engineer has at 1200 range, is grenades but they have the same issue as the scepter, being slow and easy to avoid. And the mortar, which is just hilariously bad at everything.

Guard definitely needs better range options.

I’d say scepter needs buffed in some kind of way. Maybe attack 1 and 2? Because I feel 3 is fine. Imo, attack 1 is too slow and smite (attack 2) radius is too small, damage too low and inconsistent. Sometimes it just seems to miss for no apparent reason and the radius is so tiny that it only takes for a target to slightly move away from it to stop taking damage.

My suggestion would be to have the staff no. 1 skill as a 1200 range AOE on hit attack similar to the Ele no. 1 staff skill. Orb skills on both weapons need to be completely redone and should be instant hit as the “slow moving orbs” are almost useless in WvW (can’t even hit downed players that teleport around with them at times) and trying to see where that orb is (on the staff skill) to either damage foes or heal allies is nigh impossible with all the AOEs. Basically Orb skills should just be changed to Light Rays similar to Focus no. 5 skill. As others have suggested, make the staff the 1200 range weapon all around (and please reconsider changing the no. 4 staff skill as well, the channel on it feels too long to me) and the Scepter as the 900 range option.

omg you have everything and you want more range too? Holly crap… where’s the necro buffs at ???

Shelledfade.6435:

omg you have everything and you want more range too? Holly crap… where’s the necro buffs at ???

In the Necro forum, where they belong.

This is what happens in WvW: you run a staff for the swiftness: well you’ve got plenty of support on the staff -that’s great.

Now for your second set you have to roll something ranged -scepter/?
The scepter projectiles do not combo and they move too slow -anyone can dodge them.

So you can support and attempt to defend and that is your only role. (unless you are constantly changing weapon sets during WvW-something other classes are not burdened with).

Shelledfade.6435:

omg you have everything and you want more range too?

Yeah, I kinda have to agree here. The Guardian is strong enough as is.

I wish we had a longbow :< heal people from afar, raining healing arrows… Purifying shot. Cripple your enemis removes boons etc…

Zelden.6143:

I think the huge misconception in Guild Wars is that you keep one set of weapons for an entire fight. I’m usually hammering tilde and waiting for the cooldown to come off so I can make use of all my abilities, the scepter is a fantastic addition to the Guardians arsenal, but you’re not going to make the best of it you are standing there waddling your wand and expecting people to fall down dead.

This. I’m a lvl 32 and I spent the first 27 levels or so working that 2handed hammer. I’m just so used to standard MMO fighting that the idea of switching weapons on the fly is anathema to me. It’s rare even in a lot of console fighting games.

It took me 20+ levels just to start moving during a fight. I build a Guardian, see heavy armor, and guess what? I’m thinking I’m a Paladin from WoW or Captain from LOTRO, and I play like one. I just stand there, regardless of the circumstance, and take a beating while bashing 1,2,3,4 and 5 on the keyboard.

I had to very purposefully practice and do research to start breaking the mold, so to speak. I’m definitely still a learner, but I can tell you: someone who moves during a fight and switches weapons will have a big leg up on those who don’t, esp. in WvW and PvP.

Another note: this happens every class, every MMO. I recently came from SWTOR and it was the same there, too. This class is OP. This class is nerfed. Devs add some buffs to a class or nerf a class based on feedback, the complaining starts anew, this time from the other side.

If you want range, go with a range-based class. The guardian has a role to play in fights, and that role is not ranged.

The Guardian is a BEAST up close and personal. There’s an option for range attacks, be happy! I play mostly PvE (so I can’t speak for pvp or wvw), but by god. I don’t want to make this class god mode of GW2.

tuksonrider.1076:

The Guardian is a BEAST up close and personal. There’s an option for range attacks, be happy! I play mostly PvE (so I can’t speak for pvp or wvw), but by god. I don’t want to make this class god mode of GW2.

This sort of blind-a ss response doesn’t help anything. No one wants god-mode. We want to viable ranged. We do not have that currently.

80 Guardian here and the class is fine in both PVE/PVP/WvW.

Learn to strafe/dodge and always be moving.

The only change that would be okay on Sceptor is if they added a combo to it. It feels a bit “boring”, but I wouldn’t say its underpowered. You can close gaps by using util skills, MOVING, and swapping weapons. Check your runes too. Hydromancy works wonders.

Wish we had a better ranged option than Scepter/Focus. Until they balance some of the pve content, its 100x easier just to range every thing in the explorable no need to think at all, especially when you can have powerful tools like Blind from range lol…

Kellie.3687:

Wish we had a better ranged option than Scepter/Focus. Until they balance some of the pve content, its 100x easier just to range every thing in the explorable no need to think at all, especially when you can have powerful tools like Blind from range lol…

Scepter/staff is fine for PvE. You’ll not longer range weapons suffer in pve b/c of the stupid mob reset if they get kited too far. Mid range is king, especially in dungeons where there’s no where to kite too. Scepter is also good for bosses and DE’s b/c bosses don’t dodge.

Humans however, move out of the way of danger, making the scepter essentially a mid range weapon. A problem b/c guardian is the only class with ZERO long ranged weapons. And to yall saying, “well some classes don’t have true melee options”, who cares, in the current state of balance, ranged is king in all modes except sPvP.

For you ppl who are saying you just support in WvW, support gets no drops or xp in WvW. Also, are you happy the guardian is by far the least versatile class in WvW?

Moodib.8420:

80 Guardian here and the class is fine in both PVE/PVP/WvW.

Learn to strafe/dodge and always be moving.

The only change that would be okay on Sceptor is if they added a combo to it. It feels a bit “boring”, but I wouldn’t say its underpowered. You can close gaps by using util skills, MOVING, and swapping weapons. Check your runes too. Hydromancy works wonders.

LOL, if you’re enemies learn the same advice you’re giving us, of “strafing”, you’ll notice the scepter is useless at longer ranges.

the uprising.6317:

Moodib.8420:

80 Guardian here and the class is fine in both PVE/PVP/WvW.

Learn to strafe/dodge and always be moving.

The only change that would be okay on Sceptor is if they added a combo to it. It feels a bit “boring”, but I wouldn’t say its underpowered. You can close gaps by using util skills, MOVING, and swapping weapons. Check your runes too. Hydromancy works wonders.

LOL, if you’re enemies learn the same advice you’re giving us, of “strafing”, you’ll notice the scepter is useless at longer ranges.

Heck they dont even have to. Cant tell you the number of times i’ve launched and orb for the mob to pull a 180 and jump to someone way far away… So annoying. Granted this is with the staff and not the scepter as i do beleave it tracks somewhat.

My best ranged weapon on a Guardian is someone else playing Mesmer or Necro. It has not failed me yet.

In a game where every class has a viable bit of everything the guardian stands out as having no viable ranged because somebody decided that a heavy armor wearing knight should get a magical wizard wand and a staff as his ranged weapons only.

I understand this game is not about solo play, but heck, why can’t the guardian get a REAL ranged weapon such as a bow, javelin or a pistol/shield? You know, something that’s more appropriate for a knight than a wand.

I feel the crap range worst in WvW. While we are totally awesome out in the open feild where we can force a fight, much of WvW centers around the keep fights. We do have a role in those, but it is the completely thankless job of support. We don’t get kill credit, XP or loot for buffing our buddies or keeping Wall of Reflection up so the assault can advance, we don’t get rewarded for protecting the rangers and eles on the wall so they can rain death down…

Honestly, whenever a keep gets involved, I tell my team to SAVE THEMSELVES and run for a seige weapon so I can actually feel like I’m doing something worthwhile. There’s a problem there.

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

As I see it Guardians are mainly melee class. They are not supposed to be long range damage dealers. Scepters and staves are good fro support and healing and that’s about it. Seems logical design decision.

Warriors are in a similar situation. Rifles are not really a damage dealing weapon. Rifles are good for kiting. Longbows in warrior’s hands are first of all AoE weapons and not all around DPS weapon.

MaximusAwesomus.1784:

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

Just because Thieves have it bad/worse doesn’t mean Guardians can’t also have problems.
And our effective range is far below 1200, and boring at that. No-one is asking for “the best ranged weapons”. I don’t even understand where you got the idea. Doing something interesting and rewarding during sieges or massive scale dynamic events isn’t that weird to ask, is it?
And you used that “play something else”-defense for the second time now. It’s never a good argument. We don’t want to play the Ranger or the Warrior. We want to play a Guardian. I’m sure most people here love 90% about the Guardian, but the profession isn’t perfect in any way.

Ynna.8769:

MaximusAwesomus.1784:

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

Just because Thieves have it bad/worse doesn’t mean Guardians can’t also have problems.
And our effective range is far below 1200, and boring at that. No-one is asking for “the best ranged weapons”. I don’t even understand where you got the idea. Doing something interesting and rewarding during sieges or massive scale dynamic events isn’t that weird to ask, is it?
And you used that “play something else”-defense for the second time now. It’s never a good argument. We don’t want to play the Ranger or the Warrior. We want to play a Guardian. I’m sure most people here love 90% about the Guardian, but the profession isn’t perfect in any way.

I absolutely agree with you. What’s so odd about asking for a bow? The Guardian can summon a ghost bow, but can’t use a bow himself, or at least grab that ghost bow for as long as it lasts and use it? The bow is the only ghost weapon out of the 4 that the Guardian can’t wield. Nobody asked for a superior ranged weapon. People just want an option if they do not like wands and the staff!

I love the Guardian’s play style. It’s way more intesting as the bland Warrior, but I sincerely hate the paladin/caster component if the Guardian. A staff? Wands? Tomes? Those things are for wizards, not knights!

Ynna.8769:

MaximusAwesomus.1784:

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

Just because Thieves have it bad/worse doesn’t mean Guardians can’t also have problems.
And our effective range is far below 1200, and boring at that. No-one is asking for “the best ranged weapons”. I don’t even understand where you got the idea. Doing something interesting and rewarding during sieges or massive scale dynamic events isn’t that weird to ask, is it?
And you used that “play something else”-defense for the second time now. It’s never a good argument. We don’t want to play the Ranger or the Warrior. We want to play a Guardian. I’m sure most people here love 90% about the Guardian, but the profession isn’t perfect in any way.

This exactly.

Honestly the Scepter and Staff only need a small retweaking.

If Staff’s range was increased to 750 or 900, it would make a huge difference, while its low base damage would still keep it sub-par for single target DPS.

Scepter’s orbs could be made faster and Smite could be changed to count as a symbol or field. You could also tweak Scepter’s #1 to be a chain attack with the additional strikes blinding and/or burning the target.

Guardian’s main issue isn’t that the skill sets on our ranged weapons are bad, but their difficulty in landing strikes at a distance (Staff’s range, Scepter’s speed).

roachsrealm.9284:

My best ranged weapon on a Guardian is someone else playing Mesmer or Necro. It has not failed me yet.

You mean cooperating? Actually playing with another person in a multiplayer game? You’re crazy man.

shedim.8504:

Ynna.8769:

MaximusAwesomus.1784:

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

Just because Thieves have it bad/worse doesn’t mean Guardians can’t also have problems.
And our effective range is far below 1200, and boring at that. No-one is asking for “the best ranged weapons”. I don’t even understand where you got the idea. Doing something interesting and rewarding during sieges or massive scale dynamic events isn’t that weird to ask, is it?
And you used that “play something else”-defense for the second time now. It’s never a good argument. We don’t want to play the Ranger or the Warrior. We want to play a Guardian. I’m sure most people here love 90% about the Guardian, but the profession isn’t perfect in any way.

I absolutely agree with you. What’s so odd about asking for a bow? The Guardian can summon a ghost bow, but can’t use a bow himself, or at least grab that ghost bow for as long as it lasts and use it? The bow is the only ghost weapon out of the 4 that the Guardian can’t wield. Nobody asked for a superior ranged weapon. People just want an option if they do not like wands and the staff!

I love the Guardian’s play style. It’s way more intesting as the bland Warrior, but I sincerely hate the paladin/caster component if the Guardian. A staff? Wands? Tomes? Those things are for wizards, not knights!

Agree! Give us Bows!!!

Sythus.2396:

Agree! Give us Bows!!!

Ive always argued, and will continue to do so, for Rifles.

shedim.8504:

The bow is the only ghost weapon out of the 4 that the Guardian can’t wield.

I actually think having a spirit bow is a bit of a stretch already.. it’s flirting with the line of what fits with the profession in my mind. A physical bow would be out of the question.

shedim.8504:

A staff? Wands? Tomes? Those things are for wizards, not knights!

It’s called a Scepter! And I disagree, my good sir.

And if anyone is wondering, Rifles should also be off limits to Guardians.

Oh, excuse me. A scepter. That looks like a generic wand. And shoots magical tennis balls.