There are like 3 or more threads about our lacking ranged viability that sank to the 3th and 4th topic page… really?? All you care about is making topics about changing 1 trait and call it a new build and actually get 20 responds on that? What is wrong with this community??
Videos like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ0pqRwjuU deserve an outburst to be honest, currently we are only viable in WvW if we are full support. I mean, do you actually walk into the other zerg and start meleeing them? What about PVE?? You actually walk up to that boss that swings for 40k damage?? Any remotely competitive content where your intent is not only support but also remotely dps is deminished and frankly nobody gives a kitten according to these forums. Nice…
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
I used to be one of those that advocated range viability for Guardians, but the more I thought about it the less it appealed to me. #1 reason why: getting better range means that something will have to be nerfed. And that’s one thing I don’t want any more of.
I’d love it if the range of Staff was changed to at least 900 (maybe w/ a tighter focused cone), or if the scepter moved a little faster… BUT, the best thing for me is traiting/gearing for up close and beating the heck out of everything…. and setting it all on blue fire
currently we are only viable in WvW if we are full support. I mean, do you actually walk into the other zerg and start meleeing them?
Yes I do, if you want to melee in WvW find a decent guild.
Melee is more than viable, you simply need to know when to push and when to pull back to heal up with water fields and you need people to work together as one guardian running into the middle of an enemies zerg is pointless.
I think scepter needs a look, but I prefer the front page being filled with threads discussing builds, playstyle and people giving feedback to complaints that Anet knows about and will change if they want to.
I don’t even use scepter on my offensive guard anymore, just swd/focus and greatsword. Seems like it is much better to keep pressuring with gap closers and massive sustain than switch to a weapon that is destined to be subpar (plus naturally have lower DPS just b/c it is ranged). Nothing can profitably melee a guard anyway so go nuts.
And yes, you can do some stuff in wvw melee; teleporting in with a few massive swings/CC effects at proper moments can be pretty effective.
Obviously, you did not have any look at this forum during the last week. Otherwise, you would have noticed that there were at least two threads complaining about exactly this issue. But since old news is old, they just dropped from the front page. ANet knows about the issue, so it’s their decision to act or not to act.
Anyways, regarding PvE, I personally don’t really care about changes to our ranged options. DPS-wise, the scepter is fine in most cases (at least for a ranged weapon), and the staff is also OK with all its support. Meleeing is still the better option. You just need to know how to dodge, then “40k boss damage” are no problem.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
Nah, it’s more like we are all tired of the “scepter is broken threads”. We’ve been saying this since like forever and nothing has been done. It is unlikely anything will be done to it if it hasn’t been done by now since it is quite hard for anet to miss something this broken unless it was actually intended.
Perhaps people have come to the conclusion that complaining about the same thing every two days with new threads isn’t really an effective way to get dev’s attention.
Because people have been complaining and portraying the crappyness that’s the scepter auto attack since release and there has been no changes. What’s the point really?
last Anet post in the guardian forum was over 3months ago, and the was to just lock a thread.
Whats the point of continuing to point of issues identified since the first beta weekend, when its obvious Anet just dont listen. (I’m not saying they need to necessarily just do as we [I] want, but a response would be nice).
Many years of gaming has taught me this: Its not a bad thing for players to complain, it means they care, often quite passionately, about the game. the time to worry is when it goes silent, that means that people have just given up and stopped caring.
Well actually, this would be a great time to buff our ranged capabilities. Above this thread are 3 threads stating one thing: we got indirectly nerfed because of warrior/thief mechanics and soon we will get even more nerfed because of boon hate.
Take our mitigation away, what are we? Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist? Not really. We`ll be like a warrior with still best support but worse melee dmg, worse ranged dmg, worse defense due to kittenty hp.
Im fine with all that, make us at least swing tennisballs that hit targets… at the very kitten least.
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
There are like 3 or more threads about our lacking ranged viability that sank to the 3th and 4th topic page… really?? All you care about is making topics about changing 1 trait and call it a new build and actually get 20 responds on that? What is wrong with this community??
Videos like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ0pqRwjuU deserve an outburst to be honest, currently we are only viable in WvW if we are full support. I mean, do you actually walk into the other zerg and start meleeing them? What about PVE?? You actually walk up to that boss that swings for 40k damage?? Any remotely competitive content where your intent is not only support but also remotely dps is deminished and frankly nobody gives a kitten according to these forums. Nice…
You’re 600% wrong if you think we’re only good for support in wvw. I have 0 problems with melee or ranged damage on my Guardian in both pve and wvw. As other people have mentioned before, our ranged is fine. If they beef it up in some way, something else of ours will have to be nerfed in turn. Also if you treat scepter like a combo weapon you’ll have a better time. I use scepter / torch and my combo usually is #3 —> #2 —> #5 —> #4 while 5 is in mid channel, then #4 again to toss the fireball. TONS of damage and at the very least will make most people panic and burn stun breakers early.
There are 2 zergs in front of each other. You run in to melee the enemy, you die. Or…. you would have ranged viability to stand in your own zerg and nuke the other zerg from a distance like everyone else.
And to the one claiming he pushes other zergs all of the time: wrong, if your not in for continuously suicidal leaps, you simply don’t :P
And if you seriously manage to melee random fractal boss on 40+ for more then 1 second, i salute you.
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
Ring of Warding + Judge’s Invervention = the most fun you can have watching a group of people panic that they’re in an enemy combo field. I jump into zergs and survive all the time. Just a matter of what you bring with you gear / utilities wise.
I dont understand your argument, zergs nuke the ones that are closest. If they suddenly see a red person in the middle of their zerg this person will be focused by 40 people. Even with 4k armor and 25k hp you will not survive. Hence, melee is not viable in my pov in wvw.
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
I dont understand your argument, zergs nuke the ones that are closest. If they suddenly see a red person in the middle of their zerg this person will be focused by 40 people. Even with 4k armor and 25k hp you will not survive. Hence, melee is not viable in my pov in wvw.
Dodges back toward your zerg, Shelter, and Renewed Focus work wonders for returning back to your zerg. Also with ring of warding up and people running into it trying to chase you helps as well. Melee is extremely viable, you just have to play smart about it.
You actually might pull it off yes. You do that, you make it back into your zerg and every utility+elite is on a long cooldown and you just stand there. Now what? you dance for 2 minuts and do it again and call that “viable” meleeing in wvw?
If that is how you like to play, be my guest. I prefer ranged capability.
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
Zergs don’t automatically target the closest players. Facing, lack of assist function, mobility all prevent any particular individual from being focused by the whole zerg. Even a team on voice chat might have a problem focusing a single player.
I don’t believe it’s a realistic approach to try to make a profession into something it isn’t. If Guardians are poor at range and more than capable at melee BY DESIGN, there isn’t really a compelling argument to change it. If you prefer ranged capability AND the Guardian profession, you recognize the shortcomings of your choices. If being ranged in WvW is more important then the conceptual shortcomings of a profession, you have the choice to play other professions.
You actually might pull it off yes. You do that, you make it back into your zerg and every utility+elite is on a long cooldown and you just stand there. Now what? you dance for 2 minuts and do it again and call that “viable” meleeing in wvw?
If that is how you like to play, be my guest. I prefer ranged capability.
To clarify I don’t do that move set willy-nilly in a zerg. You have to wait for the best moment to strike (like anything else in this game.) Also every time I jump in and wall in people in the ring, a good amount of people from my zerg will take notice and begin aoe-dumping that area, or moving in to melee range themselves, thus taking pressure off you. The heal / invuln combo I mentioned is just a means of guarenteeing escape 90% of the time. If ranged is that important to you then perhaps this profession isn’t what you thought it was.
There are 2 zergs in front of each other. You run in to melee the enemy, you die. Or…. you would have ranged viability to stand in your own zerg and nuke the other zerg from a distance like everyone else.
And to the one claiming he pushes other zergs all of the time: wrong, if your not in for continuously suicidal leaps, you simply don’t :P
If your zerg is sitting back at 1200 range too afraid then push then you have an unorganized zerg and/or a bad commander and this is why I said if you want to run melee then join a decent WvW guild. Pushing trumps sitting back 9 times out of 10.
I still use the scepter on my support guardian. The immobilize can be pretty useful, and smite lets you attack people on walls. It’s maybe not that great for open field combat, but I don’t believe that everything needs to be great for every situation. I can see how it would not be very appealing if you are offensive spec’ced though.
I still use the scepter on my support guardian. The immobilize can be pretty useful, and smite lets you attack people on walls. It’s maybe not that great for open field combat, but I don’t believe that everything needs to be great for every situation. I can see how it would not be very appealing if you are offensive spec’ced though.
Works fine on a offensive spec as well (3400 attack w/ 30% crit chance on my Guardian.) I use it as a combo creator using the immobilize as my opener, with smite and cleansing flame (torch #5) cast back to back while the person is immobilized. The numbers that fly up are wonderful.
Making ranged better is easy.. just fix the now slow scepter.
Make faster movement speed on the energyballs it cast.
very simple fix to a start in the right direction.
(Its a fix that should take like 2 min to fix, if even that).
“guy sit down at computer…
look for class database – find guardian class – weapon sets – scepter –
scroll and find Autoattack – scroll to find energyball movement speed – increase value – save – done”.
To the OP. I think the reason why this topic sank is because of the devs. It has been made abundantly clear that the guardian class will not be affective damage dealers at range. Besides, look at all the patch notes. Update after update has seen nerfs to the class with the intent of forcing into only a few viable builds/roles. With the latest patch preview in our boon builds will get a indirect nerf.
Its not surprising that folks have quit the class or the game entirely.
If you prefer ranged capability AND the Guardian profession, you recognize the shortcomings of your choices. If being ranged in WvW is more important then the conceptual shortcomings of a profession, you have the choice to play other professions.
This is the problem, Guild wars 2 does not have a holy trinity. This means every class must be viable at any given department. If not, it shuts a class down or have them at a severely disadvantage. Your argument of having the choice to play another profession goes null here since every profession should be viable be it ranged be it melee.
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
This is the problem, Guild wars 2 does not have a holy trinity. This means every class must be viable at any given department. If not, it shuts a class down or have them at a severely disadvantage. Your argument of having the choice to play another profession goes null here since every profession should be viable be it ranged be it melee.
what i have said also, over and over. A-net have painted themself into a corner.
They dont want people to be able to specialize too deep.
dmg/ tank / healing. You should play all in one.
And at same time, they dont give everything available to all classes.
As that whould just make 1 class. and one class whould be kinda boring.
SO.
They dont want trinity. And they dont want everyone to be able to do everything.
so… What do they realy want.??
Simply put: They have created a big mess. And now they dont know how to solve it.
If you prefer ranged capability AND the Guardian profession, you recognize the shortcomings of your choices. If being ranged in WvW is more important then the conceptual shortcomings of a profession, you have the choice to play other professions.
This is the problem, Guild wars 2 does not have a holy trinity. This means every class must be viable at any given department. If not, it shuts a class down or have them at a severely disadvantage. Your argument of having the choice to play another profession goes null here since every profession should be viable be it ranged be it melee.
‘Ranged offense’ is not a defining member of that trinity so this association doesn’t make sense. Therefore, Anet’s approach to no holy trinity does not dictate Guardians should get improvements in ranged capability.
The argument of choice is very fundamental here. Again, if these restrictions are by design, then your options are available and you choose the ones that fit how you wish to play. There is no argument to claim it needs improvement if there are other choices and Guardians are capable of fulfilling their profession definition.
Yea, although its not about creating homogenization among all classes. Its simply making them viable in all fields. As it stands now we have 2 exceptions, engineers seem to lack in melee and guardians seem to lack in ranged. (not sure about engineers after their massive buffs tough)
Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.
There is no rules that say they should be viable in all field. That is determined by Anet devs that develop the concepts for the professions. No holy trinity model does not automatically indicate every class should be capable in any role players define for them.
Speaking as someone playing on T1 server, pretty much every ZvZ fight involves more than 80 people, and I have 0 problems running through the enemy zerg and tagging them all with my staff for crazy amounts of loot bags and owning them in the face. I also always charge in first (unless Im running slow and everyone is way ahead of me.) Im also pretty much the last one to die if we get wiped. I think this is just a L2 kitten ue with you guys. That or your servers zergs dont crash into each other and fight, they just try to stand back and shoot each other to death, which is terrible and bad. But hey, if thats whats happening on your server, you could completely change the meta and own everyone by getting 10-15 guardians and warriors and just charging them and smashing them. Youd be amazed how fast a team of 30 ranged characters dies to 10-15 tanky melees.
Here’s a video to show what Im talking about, its not me, but it is my server, and it is a guardian. http://youtu.be/jDJ31YLVhM0
The trick to living is running around enemy fields on the ground, and getting behind the front line. Once youre in the middle of them youre pretty safe.
