Guild Wars 2

Valor already had defensive/heals/crit damage/some crit chance based off of toughness.

After that you had 40 more points to put somewhere.

MF is ok on burst healing, but not so much on sustained. Short duration fights and skirmishes with a healing over time of about 90-110 hp per second?

AH provided potential 70ish – 350 hp per second depending on how many people are around you. Or if you have hammer and empowering might it would be 2 boons per second times 5 people that could be something like 700 healing per second…IF you are in a zerg.

So AH provides better self sustain in groups, MF is giving us a little more burst while solo I guess.

Same trait line so easy to flip between.

That said, we already HAD that. So again, I feel the change is nominal at most. 20% more crit chance when in a build that already stacks crit chance to at least 40% if not 50-60%.

The damage will go up a little bit, but the sustain didn’t change for that build…a build that we are ALREADY using….so much for build diversity.

If they had improved the base heal per second of VoR, writ of the merciful, or even zealous blade, that would have been an interesting change that would inspire build diversity. Or even something completely off the wall that we haven’t seen before that I couldn’t fathom at this time.

What they did is give us what we already have with a nice new wrapper and somehow we are happy with it.

I just read over the entire dev post on those coming updates and noticed something very disturbing:
Albeit not as specific, they look a lot like those pastebin notes….

I’m… kinda… on the fence about all this? It doesn’t seem to do much if anything from a wvw’ers perspective. More condition removal but without a cool down to condition application that doesn’t mean much. Conditions will still burn through removal at an alarming rate. Coupled with our low health we’ll still fold like cheap lawn chairs without a larger pool to pad out duration. I guess for pvp these changes are… meh. It doesn’t really change the meta that much from what I see. Warriors are kind of making out like bandits though.

I feel as though the current 30 30 10 build is here to stay and these changes aren’t really going to break that up much. Mainly due to healing powers placement in the trait line. UNLESS its not MF that grants fury. Then it could allow for a tiny bit of burst on a defense healway type guardian. I think. Better guardians then I could probably speak to that theory crafting with more authority.

Mr Pin.6728:

UNLESS its not MF that grants fury.

It’s Focused Mind, not Monk’s Focus ( the original announcement was in error ). So yes, a Master tier rather than Grandmaster

Mr Pin.6728:

I’m… kinda… on the fence about all this? It doesn’t seem to do much if anything from a wvw’ers perspective.

Because it really doesn’t. If you roam, your gameplay is most likely full of chasing and kiting, no one will stand on the godkitten purging flames circle’s range, the Fury on meditations is nice to have tho. If you run in zergs the situation is almost the same, and you probably won’t even use monk focus… however if you run in small sized groups (like you plus 3~4 persons) and do a lot of camp flipping/fighting i can see a enhancement.

First i find this to be huge. People have been very mody due to our inability to do nice dps in tankbuilds if we compare with the war/nec/ranger hybrid builds which combine conditions and healing to the absurd.

Anet just gave us the exact same option tbh, if the fury uptime is remotely close to decent.

I cant understand why people look upon this as an addition to dps builds, i see this as an option to have 55% crit chance, Close to 2k power and1,2k Dodge rolls in the same package. Ofc with 3k armor and 20k Health. At least that is what this invites me to try and strive for.

For dps builds the only real contribution is to 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/5/5 one handers when you think you will have less than 70-80% uptime on UC and have poor fury coverage in the group.

Btw people need to stop overestimating elusive Power, its maybe a 2% boost in reality, in pve. Its useful for bursting in pvp/wvw, nothing more.

Valor offers a straight 9% dps increase (without the fury) honor isnt even close and virtues can compete with 6-8 boons running and surpasses with high uptimes on UC.

So ofc this will have an impact on certain top dps builds and in certain dps centric pve scenarios.

Purging flames sounds nice but im a bit sceptical but time will tell.

CMF.5461:

Valor already had defensive/heals/crit damage/some crit chance based off of toughness.

After that you had 40 more points to put somewhere.

MF is ok on burst healing, but not so much on sustained. Short duration fights and skirmishes with a healing over time of about 90-110 hp per second?

AH provided potential 70ish – 350 hp per second depending on how many people are around you. Or if you have hammer and empowering might it would be 2 boons per second times 5 people that could be something like 700 healing per second…IF you are in a zerg.

So AH provides better self sustain in groups, MF is giving us a little more burst while solo I guess.

Same trait line so easy to flip between.

That said, we already HAD that. So again, I feel the change is nominal at most. 20% more crit chance when in a build that already stacks crit chance to at least 40% if not 50-60%.

The damage will go up a little bit, but the sustain didn’t change for that build…a build that we are ALREADY using….so much for build diversity.

If they had improved the base heal per second of VoR, writ of the merciful, or even zealous blade, that would have been an interesting change that would inspire build diversity. Or even something completely off the wall that we haven’t seen before that I couldn’t fathom at this time.

What they did is give us what we already have with a nice new wrapper and somehow we are happy with it.

I agree with some of the things you are saying here, its what I said as well. That they still haven’t buffed unused trait lines to make them attractive to use. Valor was already good, now its even better.

I can see what you are saying about MF vs AH, but this depends if you are looking at it from a pvp perspective or a pve one. With pve, AH could be better since the chances of you having allies next to you constantly is much higher than in pvp.

I don’t think its fair to compare retributive armor to fury, its like a poor man’s fury. With 1400 toughness it gives around a 3% extra crit chance. It benefits characters with high toughness more, but zerker builds don’t have high toughness.

But also note, my perspective is coming from pvp. But I run meditations in pve as well and I haven’t felt a performance drop in doing so.

The problem with triple meditation builds is you lack speed boosters.
Unless you go with full Rune of the Traveler, anyone with a brain can kite you easily.

Red Falcon.8257:

The problem with triple meditation builds is you lack speed boosters.
Unless you go with full Rune of the Traveler, anyone with a brain can kite you easily.

Then its a problem with the individual’s build, not meditations.

Are you F’n kidding me?!

MORE CONDI REMOVAL? MORE SUPPORT?!

[Edit] Removed mean things.

How about you focus on the Zeal and Radiance Lines.

How about you focus on our Weapons, adding more Conditions to them.

How about you focus on giving us some sort of reliable soft CC.

How about you take your head out of your kitten and stop pigeon holing us into 1 single playstyle?

WoW.

btw, where are guanglai kangyi and brazil?!

NoTrigger.8396:

btw, where are guanglai kangyi and brazil?!

They’re playing Warriors.

I like these changes. Purging Flames seems really powerful, instantly removing three conditions, and less condition duration later is nothing to scoff at. Plus that’s not even counting the burning.

Also Focused Mind isn’t worthless anymore. I thought they where just going to combine Meditation Mastery and Focused Mind into one trait, but I like this idea better. Really want to see what fury upkeep will be if you Inner Fire + Focused Mind.

Also note this was pointed out:

•We’re also looking to make conditions scale better in PvE/WvW leveling so that they’re more viable at different junctures in the level scale.

I’m very close to either re-rolling or quitting this game.

This will be the patch that makes it or breaks it for me on my Guardian.

My current problems; of which none were addressed:

*Perplexity runes
*Limited Build options
*High condition damage classes that can face tank me
*My ability to survive and or finish players grounded in my access to mobility
*Lack of Direct Damage effects
*Focus on Zone control that does not transfer to WvW

For me the deal breaker is engagement reason. Right now it is nothing more than a endless bait ball love fest. There is some in-game GvG and to some degree 1v1 but there is no reward system in place (better leader boards for example) for the solo or small roaming party of 5. It is like a tree falling in a forest. No one hears it let alone anyone cares except the homeless owl

I get and understand the pigeon hole of our class but man PvE has received all of the love including ascended weapons. If one is only playing this game for WvW then yeah, it is get up and go time I’d wager.

For those raging, remember that these are just preliminary patch notes, and there’s probably still a lot more to come. To quote directly from the post:

We increased the power of many support skills which weren’t seeing much play.

That line alone could mean any number of things for the Guardian, since I’m fairly sure Purging Flames isn’t the only skill they were talking about. That could be buffs to Consecrations, Shield skills, our Elites, or perhaps even a couple of our Spirit Weapons or Signets, to name some possibilities. The changes to Meditations also show that they’re trying to at least throw offensive Guardians a bone, so we’ll see if any more changes cater to that style.

Based on this preview, I’d say that overall, it looks like an exciting patch for Guardians. Once the condition meta settles down a little bit, I’ll be looking forward to pulling out my Meditation Guardian in SPvP again, and hopefully we’ll see at least some diversification in viable playstyles across the board. My only concern at this point is power creep – they didn’t talk about nerfing very much in the preview, and a lot of things need to be brought down before the game can truly start to be healthy again.

The Key to that quote: SUPPORT.

We are already 1 of the best support classes in the game: Ele is probably the second.

We don’t need ~more~ support.

My big issue is I have to spec 100% condition removal for pvp. How will this is affected in the next patch will determine whether I keep playing or take a break and wait for Wildstar/TESO etc…

Amins.3710:

The Key to that quote: SUPPORT.

We are already 1 of the best support classes in the game: Ele is probably the second.

We don’t need ~more~ support.

Well, that’s a perception issue … players have to recognize the concept of the class. Fundamentally, it’s support and the devs are going to push that as long as they think that’s what they want the class to do. It’s a natural progression.

I don’t understand the rage. They aren’t making our damage ability or options any worse, they just aren’t making them any better. They will address the other lines when they get to it. These things are done in waves. They won’t change everything at once.

foofad.5162:

I don’t understand the rage. They aren’t making our damage ability or options any worse, they just aren’t making them any better. They will address the other lines when they get to it. These things are done in waves. They won’t change everything at once.

By not making them any better and the focus of the entire “balance update” is around increasing “Support” (ie, sustain), what do you thinks going to happen to our lack luster dmg?

Again after again, the devs are not directly nerfing us.

They are just ~buffing~ everyone else, which in turn, nerf’s us.

As for the perception issue of the class Obtena, GW2 clearly laid out that they will not pigeon hole people into specific roles (no holy trinity)…

There is still a Trinity: Dmg, CC, Support.

Amins.3710:

foofad.5162:

I don’t understand the rage. They aren’t making our damage ability or options any worse, they just aren’t making them any better. They will address the other lines when they get to it. These things are done in waves. They won’t change everything at once.

By not making them any better and the focus of the entire “balance update” is around increasing “Support” (ie, sustain), what do you thinks going to happen to our lack luster dmg?

Again after again, the devs are not directly nerfing us.

They are just ~buffing~ everyone else, which in turn, nerf’s us.

As for the perception issue of the class Obtena, GW2 clearly laid out that they will not pigeon hole people into specific roles (no holy trinity)…

There is still a Trinity: Dmg, CC, Support.

“our lackluster dmg”
are you talking about pve or pvp here?

^^ Fair enough NoTrigger.

I’m talking WvW and being forced into Grp Support and Super Tank.

NoTrigger.8396:

Amins.3710:

foofad.5162:

I don’t understand the rage. They aren’t making our damage ability or options any worse, they just aren’t making them any better. They will address the other lines when they get to it. These things are done in waves. They won’t change everything at once.

By not making them any better and the focus of the entire “balance update” is around increasing “Support” (ie, sustain), what do you thinks going to happen to our lack luster dmg?

Again after again, the devs are not directly nerfing us.

They are just ~buffing~ everyone else, which in turn, nerf’s us.

As for the perception issue of the class Obtena, GW2 clearly laid out that they will not pigeon hole people into specific roles (no holy trinity)…

There is still a Trinity: Dmg, CC, Support.

“our lackluster dmg”
are you talking about pve or pvp here?

Most complaints will be about pvp.

am i reading this right?

focused mind is a grandmaster tier trait

so they are telling us to choose between getting fury VS heal on meditation use???

u need to put only 20 points into valor.

NoTrigger.8396:

u need to put only 20 points into valor.

aw thank you, i was blinded by F1

Amins.3710:

As for the perception issue of the class Obtena, GW2 clearly laid out that they will not pigeon hole people into specific roles (no holy trinity)…

There is still a Trinity: Dmg, CC, Support.

They don’t want holy trinity as you see in traditional games is what I recall they said.. That doesn’t mean they won’t have concepts they are going to follow for the professions, including a concept that leads to Guardian providing significant support to the team. This makes sense and I doubt it could be more clear to the playerbase.

The only thing I see fault with here is the weak approach to supporting team in the face of the condition heavy meta, though they did caution that they didn’t reveal all to us.

Ok, chill the kitten out sunshines

The change to Purging flames will sort of alleviate the need to go 30 in honor in the first place. Elusive power is kitten and proccing it on purpose will net you a DPS LOSS.

Ah builds will go 20 max in honor, and either 20 zeal or 10 zeal and 10 virtue for traiting consecrations (or unscathed contender)

Non AH builds will not be forced into 30 honor for condi removal (we went ever elusive power being kitten no?) so you can stop at 20 or heck even 10 in honor and pick up 20 zeal or 25 virtue if that is your thing. Purging flames will sort of be mandatory with the way the game is shaping, but im excited, once

^ PvE (15 characters)

Soryuju.8164:

The changes to Meditations also show that they’re trying to at least throw offensive Guardians a bone, so we’ll see if any more changes cater to that style.

Based on this preview, I’d say that overall, it looks like an exciting patch for Guardians. Once the condition meta settles down a little bit, I’ll be looking forward to pulling out my Meditation Guardian in SPvP again, and hopefully we’ll see at least some diversification in viable playstyles across the board. My only concern at this point is power creep – they didn’t talk about nerfing very much in the preview, and a lot of things need to be brought down before the game can truly start to be healthy again.

Honestly….making changes to meditations does not show any intent to “throw offensive guardians any bone”. Offensive guardians do not trait for toughness. Offensive guardians trait for power and critical chance…and grab at least 5 in virtues and honor for vigor and inspired virtues.

If they want to throw offensive guardians a bone…they will either move all of that mandatory symbol stuff out of zeal to accommodate players using weapons that don’t have access to symbols…or they will make symbols available for all weapons. They will finally grant combo field finishers for 1h sword and give us some mobility without having to use 2/3 utility slots to get mobility. They will add some sustain to offensive guardian traits or make the addition of symbols/combo finishers for the currently excluded guardian weapons provide sustain. They will provide an offensive elite that doesn’t lock out your normal skills.

About this power creep that people are mentioning. Attempts to equalize (somewhat) damage out put between professions or between builds within a profession does not constitute power creep. It would be different if the top damage professions were being boosted..but that does not appear to really be the case. Many mmos have learned the hard way that balancing does not mean that every time you buff something…something else has to be nerfed. There is such a thing as just correcting an inequity and there not being anything else that is wrong after that inequity has been corrected.

I’m also not excited at yet another semi mandatory utility slot that groups will be demanding me to use to hold their hands in dungeons/fractals. I don’t mind using stab or wor…and I always slot save yourselves just for the group condi clear/swiftness/stun break….but now I’m looking at purging flames being the new demanded utility slot. Got to say…that does not excite me.

ODB.6891

Honestly….making changes to meditations does not show any intent to “throw offensive guardians any bone”. Offensive guardians do not trait for toughness. Offensive guardians trait for power and critical chance…and grab at least 5 in virtues and honor for vigor and inspired virtues.

10/30/30/0/0 is a top dps build in some pve content and with a a specific weapon setup and also used in wvw.
0/30/30/5/5 is the top dps build in tpvp and is used in wvw.

Ofc this is a bone for the ones playing with 30 Points in valor the question imo is more if its a good bone. Personally i find more gain in fury from meditations in tankish builds.

Fury allows us to dress more defensively and maintain dps.

CMF.5461:

^ PvE (15 characters)

Ya,

However, people have tried to make meditation roaming guards to work but so far to no avail.

With the much needed buffs to meditations and condi removal outside of 30 in honor and 20 in virtues, this opens the window for more aggressive trait set ups.

Guardians have been pigeon holed into shouts since the very start of the game. Its time for a change.

Already im excited for these changes. Am thinking 20/0/30/x/x will be the backbone of the solo guard

And yet, none of you could point out I can’t spell October? fixed title…cause I is are dumb.

CMF.5461:

And yet, none of you could point out I can’t spell October? fixed title…cause I is are dumb.

:D It just shows how focused people are on the changes, there was no attention left to spare on being a spelling kitten troll ;-)

ODB.6891:

Soryuju.8164:

The changes to Meditations also show that they’re trying to at least throw offensive Guardians a bone, so we’ll see if any more changes cater to that style.

Based on this preview, I’d say that overall, it looks like an exciting patch for Guardians. Once the condition meta settles down a little bit, I’ll be looking forward to pulling out my Meditation Guardian in SPvP again, and hopefully we’ll see at least some diversification in viable playstyles across the board. My only concern at this point is power creep – they didn’t talk about nerfing very much in the preview, and a lot of things need to be brought down before the game can truly start to be healthy again.

Honestly….making changes to meditations does not show any intent to “throw offensive guardians any bone”. Offensive guardians do not trait for toughness. Offensive guardians trait for power and critical chance…and grab at least 5 in virtues and honor for vigor and inspired virtues.

If they want to throw offensive guardians a bone…they will either move all of that mandatory symbol stuff out of zeal to accommodate players using weapons that don’t have access to symbols…or they will make symbols available for all weapons. They will finally grant combo field finishers for 1h sword and give us some mobility without having to use 2/3 utility slots to get mobility. They will add some sustain to offensive guardian traits or make the addition of symbols/combo finishers for the currently excluded guardian weapons provide sustain. They will provide an offensive elite that doesn’t lock out your normal skills.

About this power creep that people are mentioning. Attempts to equalize (somewhat) damage out put between professions or between builds within a profession does not constitute power creep. It would be different if the top damage professions were being boosted..but that does not appear to really be the case. Many mmos have learned the hard way that balancing does not mean that every time you buff something…something else has to be nerfed. There is such a thing as just correcting an inequity and there not being anything else that is wrong after that inequity has been corrected.

I’m also not excited at yet another semi mandatory utility slot that groups will be demanding me to use to hold their hands in dungeons/fractals. I don’t mind using stab or wor…and I always slot save yourselves just for the group condi clear/swiftness/stun break….but now I’m looking at purging flames being the new demanded utility slot. Got to say…that does not excite me.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear…as Brutaly pointed out above, PvP-oriented Guardians do indeed trait into Valor, and that was my focus in my post. Your arguments seem focused more around min-maxing in high end PvE, which I have relatively little interest in. I think most of your points seem valid, but we’re talking about different things.

I believe that power creep, which was also a point I brought up, is also more of a concern outside of PvE content because it can take more forms than the damage normalization you mentioned (this would be the case for PvE too if groups had a reason to care about anything besides DPS). Off the top of my head, the only real nerf listed in these preliminary patch notes was to the Thief’s Larcenous Strike, and just about everything else was a buff. The rate of condition application and AoE spam is already fairly ludicrous to keep up with in PvP formats, and from the look of these notes, some of the worst offenders (Engineers and Necromancers) are receiving even more buffs. My hope is that the actual release sees some of the problem skills toned down for these classes, and that things like the Runes of Perplexity are also brought under control (to help alleviate condition spam in WvW without significantly affecting classes in PvE).

The Purging Flames change, in light of this, still does sound cool, but it makes me a little worried that Anet is hoping to introduce more condition removal and reduction into the game to take care of the condition meta, rather than targeting the problem at its source (the rate of application). It’s all speculation, though, so I guess we’ll see in a month or so.

CMF.5461:

And yet, none of you could point out I can’t spell October? fixed title…cause I is are dumb.

I seen it, but this isn’t english class man. As long as I can understand what you are saying there are no problems.

ODB.6891:

Soryuju.8164:

The changes to Meditations also show that they’re trying to at least throw offensive Guardians a bone, so we’ll see if any more changes cater to that style.

Based on this preview, I’d say that overall, it looks like an exciting patch for Guardians. Once the condition meta settles down a little bit, I’ll be looking forward to pulling out my Meditation Guardian in SPvP again, and hopefully we’ll see at least some diversification in viable playstyles across the board. My only concern at this point is power creep – they didn’t talk about nerfing very much in the preview, and a lot of things need to be brought down before the game can truly start to be healthy again.

Honestly….making changes to meditations does not show any intent to “throw offensive guardians any bone”. Offensive guardians do not trait for toughness. Offensive guardians trait for power and critical chance…and grab at least 5 in virtues and honor for vigor and inspired virtues.

If they want to throw offensive guardians a bone…they will either move all of that mandatory symbol stuff out of zeal to accommodate players using weapons that don’t have access to symbols…or they will make symbols available for all weapons. They will finally grant combo field finishers for 1h sword and give us some mobility without having to use 2/3 utility slots to get mobility. They will add some sustain to offensive guardian traits or make the addition of symbols/combo finishers for the currently excluded guardian weapons provide sustain. They will provide an offensive elite that doesn’t lock out your normal skills.

About this power creep that people are mentioning. Attempts to equalize (somewhat) damage out put between professions or between builds within a profession does not constitute power creep. It would be different if the top damage professions were being boosted..but that does not appear to really be the case. Many mmos have learned the hard way that balancing does not mean that every time you buff something…something else has to be nerfed. There is such a thing as just correcting an inequity and there not being anything else that is wrong after that inequity has been corrected.

I’m also not excited at yet another semi mandatory utility slot that groups will be demanding me to use to hold their hands in dungeons/fractals. I don’t mind using stab or wor…and I always slot save yourselves just for the group condi clear/swiftness/stun break….but now I’m looking at purging flames being the new demanded utility slot. Got to say…that does not excite me.

No offensive guardian traits into zeal.

I’ll throw my bone in here as well.

Just like I said in the main thread:

Focusing on Consecrations is a good move, some of them like Consecrated Ground and Purging flames were uderused, improving or reworking underused or underpowered skills is a good move most of the time, all things considered.
With that said, it’s nice to have Instant Meditations without traits finally, but I’m not so sure about adding more damage to Meditation builds is what these DPS Guardian builds actually need to gain more viability. These guardian types, unless carrying reliable swiftness or Greatsowrd are just a sitting duck with relatively poor condition protection (with aminly damage focused traits) and little to no soft CC to avoid kites, it also has no disengage nor roaming capabilities. It sorely needs field movement/roaming. Maybe making Merciful intervention ground targeted would be a good move, with the huge CD it would still be balanced, the skill would see more use and would be more reliable, it would also provide clutch disengage and a small boost to field movement out of combat. (You already know my other suggestions in this regard Jonathan).
Improving mobility through weapon skills and utilities should be a good move. Fury, outside of providing a little more flexibility in gear choises or added damage, it does very little to improve the lacking perks that are holding down DPS Guardians in my opinion.

Basically, as DPS:

—Guardians have Damage (mostly burst), situational hard CC, and burst healing with medium sustain.

—Guardians lack long term sustain, reliable condition protection (unless specifically spced), no disengage, no roaming capabilities, no out of combat mobility whatsoever (unless pingeonholed into Greatsword), no soft CC therefore easily kited, we don’t hold points well don’t assault points well either, and have minimal side support.

Guardians lack all the fundamental perks needed to roam, disengage, assault point, defend far/close point, bunker or sustain, it’s easily kiteable and has poor ranged pressure. All of that could (potentially) be solved with this suggested here (just an idea): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Some-few-changes-I-d-like-to-see/first#post2610205

Or with just what I said above.

It’s all on field mobility and reposition where you can juke in or out, turtle, delay CDs, mitigate damage, escape or simply run away. Remember Guardians tend to be bursty, like Thieves.

Focused Mind was never worthless. Not at all… It allowed you to stack damage on a burst while channelling another skill. It gave you the ability to drop a heal on yourself and AoE damage even while stunned (in addition to VoR active heal), and it let you remove fear without using a break stun.

Making it passive is absolutely huge for meditation builds. The addition of Fury means you can even drop RHS if you want. This basically allows you to run a hammer on one of those weapons sets for the control, and a blast finisher for the purging flames fire field. Or you can stick with mace and run the Mace of Justice trait without losing anything.

The Launch break stun was a massive nerf to hammer though, especially in Tpvp. Banish CD probably needs to come down to compensate. Also with all the new stability sources in game, Ring of Warding needs a touch to. I’d even say because of these, Banish should be on 20 seconds and Ring of Warding on 30, base.

Wish-list changes:
Improve Torch 5. Make it remove conditions from yourself as well as allies during the channel, and make it a blast finisher.

Improve Shield. Make Shield 5 reflect projectiles for it’s full duration, and make the detonate heal a blast finisher. Make Shield 4 also add 5-10 seconds of swiftness on top of the protection.

Add a minor trait under Zeal (I dunno’, nuke Shattered Aegis or Revenge of the Fallen) that grants 5-10 seconds of Swiftness when Virtue of Justice is activated.

Overall, there’s more work to be done but the balance direction is fairly solid.

guards are OP now

I’m super excited about this upcoming patch. The Fury uptime via Meditations will be amazing. I’ll easily trade out Retributive Armor for Focused Mind. The short cooldown on Smite Condition makes 5% perma crit chance an easy trade for 20% on demand crit chance. Although, I’ll have to see what duration times are like to give it a full thumbs up.

Overall these changes are a nice buff to my offensive wvw/roaming build and will give me room to get a bit more tanky by giving up some precision for Vit and Toughness.

—Super excited!

I’ve only recently incorporated Purging Flames back into my build, I’m glad to see it’s getting some love. I do hope we eventually get similar means of dealing with condition spam in other ways though….

It’s amazing to think that people think we need more condi removal and a ‘fix’ to our meditation line over this simple fact:

No offensive guardian traits into zeal.

This patch is going to do very little to us unless they address the underlining problem w/ the Guardian Class: It has too much support and sacrifices too much sustain to go DPS.

Example of where we should be closer to: Condi (Bleeds, not perplexity) Warrior – great sustain, great dmg.

I don’t see anything particularly wrong with their plans, except they seem to be ignoring the Traitlines people would like to see improved.

Hopefully, they will apply some nerf to conditions. If I didn’t have to totally spec around removing them then I might be able to use a more hybrid build, like I used to, and actually have some kittening fun again.

Extremely disappointing but it is what I should expect from anet.

Still would love to see shield skills improved, cool downs reduced. Have shield 4 apply weakness and an anti stealth debuff like the wvw trap.

And it would be awesome if our save your selfs was a true counter to necro’s pull all conditions off our allys and transfer them to our target.

It is all well and good to be forced to be support although our support is far to weak. With heavy targets 3.5k plus armor getting hit rapidly for 8k hits of damage we can not keep them up. healing needs to be a viable counter to damage.

Bailey.6892:

Extremely disappointing but it is what I should expect from anet.

Still would love to see shield skills improved, cool downs reduced. Have shield 4 apply weakness and an anti stealth debuff like the wvw trap.

And it would be awesome if our save your selfs was a true counter to necro’s pull all conditions off our allys and transfer them to our target.

It is all well and good to be forced to be support although our support is far to weak. With heavy targets 3.5k plus armor getting hit rapidly for 8k hits of damage we can not keep them up. healing needs to be a viable counter to damage.

Thats why every class has their own self heal.

Guardian’s aren’t suppose to be healers….and save yourselves wouldn’t make sense to transfer conditions to the target. Thats what necromancer does, not guardian.

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

The Key to that quote: SUPPORT.

We are already 1 of the best support classes in the game: Ele is probably the second.

We don’t need ~more~ support.

Well, that’s a perception issue … players have to recognize the concept of the class. Fundamentally, it’s support and the devs are going to push that as long as they think that’s what they want the class to do. It’s a natural progression.

“Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.”

No where in this quote does it say we are fundamentally a support class.

It says we protect and smite.

Currently, we’re all protect.

Don’t tell me it’s a “perspective” issue.